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Great stuff, don't forget to let us know what they are like ~:)Quote:
Templar Knight, that is a great link! In ten minutes there I found a bunch of promising mods and the fix for a problem I was having with the game. Awesome! (Note to self: check the official forum stupid.)
Will do, but it might be awhile, since my list of games to try has lengthened considerably in the past month.:2thumbsup:
Yes, except the guy who arranged the voice-overs deserves to be shot at first light. Capturing a village in Cossacks II forces you through three accents. First you get the Oxbridge bloke telling you that you are 'approooaching the enemy willidge'. Next you get the American drill Sergeant roaring 'Sir, our troops 're under fahr!' Finally, to top it all off Herr Flick from the Gestapo informs you that 'ouhr troops have captured ze village!' Ugh. But I love the other sounds, and you are right that this game provides some tremendous battles. I use up to 4000 men in the skirmishes, and the numbers are still rising without ctd's, only the occasional one-second freeze.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars573
Yes, I also make use of an army train now, which includes peasants and small groups of Sappers (three or four) for repairs, as well as stray artillery crew and horsemen to stuff freshly hit units.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars573
I find the AI less predictable than I thought I would. I save my skirmish scenarios halfway, and then successively try different ways to resolve them, and the AI's strategy is never the same either. It makes good use of holes in your territorial defense and sends the horsies on interesting cavalcades behind your lines, causing you to lose a precious Cannon or closing down your coal producing village when you least appreciate it. Excellent. It seems to be tactically sophisticated as well, using attack waves and weaving movements that nearly always give its lines excellent firing angles while its Cavalry really provokes your infantry into imprudent moves or premature firing orders. I like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars573
All true of course, except for the bugs. I hate the way Towers and Forts keep banging away at 'enemy' Packhorses like there is no tomorrow. Last night I ordered a hair-raising Cavalry charge and watched it go down the drain because of this. It might just have succeeded (judging by the enemy morale stats) with a bit of Cannon support, but the nearby Kronwerk I had counted on was too busy pumping lead into some ******* workhorse three miles down the next dirt trail. That is annoying, to say the least. I also had to blow up my own Fort once because it kept firing at some unseen 'enemy' target hidden from my view by a (friendly) town building. I sent a Cavalry unit to investigate and get rid of it, but they stood idly by whilst the Fort went on spreading my precious iron all across the neighbourhood. One Cannon shot every ten seconds was becoming much too costly and I had my Sappers tear it down. Never knew what 'bugged' it. But I take the bugs in my stride, they come with every game and so far none of them is insuperable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars573
Great game. ~D
Others have said that the game gets unstable as you approach the upper limits of the number of units on screen. Also the voices are some Ukrainian guy trying to pull off a north american accent, with mixed results.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianII
You can re-crew a gun with any infantry that happens to be near by. Musketeers are my most common new gunners.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianII
Rushers don't like C2 because they get pwned good and quick. Turtles win the day. Also I swear the AI is programmed with real Napoleonic battle tactic and to use them. Also an experienced infantry regiment can take a frontal assault by light cavalry. The AI just loves to throw away the lives of it's horsie mans.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianII
Your fort was probably shooting a life-stock or a deer. For some reason they are comsidered the enemy, or dinner not sure which. :idea2:Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianII
I learn every day. I think the 'large' screen freezes when 'clogged up' with large active units, i.e. at least ten such units. So I use F7 to switch from 'large' to 'small' screen for close action, then back to 'large' when the action is over. I found that above 3000 troops the game becomes essentially unmanageable, not technically but tactically speaking. The game is simply too rich in detail and there is too much going on off-screen to keep track of as you should, unless you use Pause every three seconds which interrupts the flow.Quote:
Originally Posted by lars573
Someone should come up with a mathematical formula for game manageability. You simply can't handle a dynamic, detailed game like this above, let us say, the regimental level. Personally I have never looked forward to a game involving 48,000 or 64,000 strong armies. I hate Scrabble..Another thing I did not know. I have had gunnery replacements in my army trains for three nights now, but I realise never really knew where they came from... Why doesn't this game have its own Frogbeastegg-guide where you can find snippets like that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars573
This is decidedly a non-'shooter'. There is beauty in the sort of reticence that is required if you want to win. Hold your fire, stand your ground, don't move unless you have to or the coast has been cleared. Bring your Cannon up carefully under cover from your Rifles, have it demolish that enemy Tower at its leasure, then rush in your Cavalry for that quick hit thinking all the while how and where you are going to retreat them afterwards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars573
I have made some discrete inquiries. It turns out the Gunnery Sergeant had fallen in love with a village girl who refused his overtures, so he bombed her parents' abode. A good man, but a complete moron and far past his prime. He has been honourably discharged from His Imperial Majesty's service.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars573
Why doesn't this game have its own Frogbeastegg-guide where you can find snippets like that?
Yeah that is certainly missing , just found out that you can capture and reman the enemies artillery which certainly saves on the building expense.:2thumbsup:
Good game , does anyone find that the BFE game is a hell of a lot easier than the skirmish game ?
Et tu, Brute? ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
Hmm! So I just march some Infantry over to the two dozen odd pieces I captured last night, click 'reman' and Bob's my self-appointed Emperor? You have just provided a Dutch armchair strategist with a promising vision..Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
Teh old-fashioned artillery barrage!!! ~:mecry::tomato2::ahh::scared::ahh::help:
Hehe! I've thought the same thing myself several times, most recently with civ 4.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianII
Ah! If only mylady would lead the flower of .Org manhood into these battles, we would be Napoleons and Wellingtons and Blüchers all!Quote:
Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
Seriously, this game yields its secrets only to the most diligent sapper. I shall never, ever understand why so many developers or publishers make such poor jobs of the accompanying guides and instruction booklets. To the true developer it must feel like putting your love child up for adoption with a chit that says 'Feed and water three times a day'.
Anyway, this was originally a review thread - it is alright if I continue to hijack it for the occasional discussion of Cossacks II issues, Frogbeastegg?
If that is so, I have yet another question: why and how does one employ Limber in the transport of Cannon? Is it worth producing the snazzy four-in-hands?
From the sublime (this discussion so far) to the ridiculous (my question). But here it is anyway...
Becoming more and more intrigued by what is being said here about this game, I checked out the screens available at ign and came across this one. What the heck is going on in it??? Is there an rpg or character element to this game???
Curiouser and curiouser...
I know that girl. :stunned:Quote:
Originally Posted by Androo
Um, AdrianII, you are sparking my interest in this game again - especially when you mentioned a pause button. How would you compare the combat in Cossacks2 to that in Total War games (the best representation of battle at the grand tactical level that I've seen on a computer game)? How does the Battle for Europe layer compare with the strategic part of Total War? From some of what you and Lars write, it sounds similar. But then I read about collecting wood etc and wonder if it is just another RTS? If it is all about rushing around collecting resources and churning out troops, I'd have to pass.
I got burned last year buying Battle for Middle Earth and Warhammer 40k: Dawn of War. Both were excellent RTSs, but ultimately, I did not like them because they still had more in common with Command and Conquer than anything else. I think it was the frenetic pace of the combat and the lack of a meaningful strategic layer that killed them for me.
Hi Simon. I understand your concern that it's just Knights & Merchants again, only with phat graphics. Your questions really deserve an answer from the more (generally) experienced players. My experience is almost entirely limited to S:TW and M:TW. After those, I found nearly everything else recommended by friends or brought home by the kids (usually games suggested by other kids' elder brothers) plain boring, particularly the Ueber-shooters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Appleton
People say this game comes into its own in the Battle for Europe. I haven't had occasion to play it, having been distracted all week by mundane issues like work, raising children, chopping down a tree and insisting that an elderly neighbour was taken to hospital for serious checks against the advice of his 67-year-old quack of a GP (*strikes off ten hours of heated neighbourly discussions*).
I already indicated what I like about combat in Cossacks II. So far I have been playing Skirmishes to get the hang of it. I discover new elements all the time and I have to say this game is very rich in strategic and tactical detail.
Unlike your (tactical) Custom Battle from Shoggy or M:TW, a Skirmish is really a strategic duel. You start out with a landscape, a small set of resource villages of your own, some peasants to erect production buildings and gather resources, as well as a predetermined enemy provided with same. You fight the AI in Normal, Hard or Very Hard mode.
As soon as your peasants have built you a Town Center, you can raise more peasants, have them erect a Barracks, Stables, Blacksmith and various other structures or turn their hand to wood, coal or food production, and when Sappers become available they will build you fortifications -- all at a precisely calculable cost.
It pays off to study the map, not just for military purposes. Your different villages produce different resources for you, and they can be upgraded if you feel confident that you can hold them long enough as well as relatively unchallenged (because the villagers will flee indoors during fights and production comes to a stand-still). Resources are transported to your Town Center on packhorses; take a close look at their (scripted) routes to make sure your military actions (and those of the enemy) do not interrupt their flow too much.
Resource management is essential to your game in the way logistics has always been essential to warfare; it limits your tactical options but once you have made your choices it need not become an issue unless you mess up. In the beginning you really have to economise and watch your ammunition and food stores. Later on if you want to deploy those flashy Mounted Carabineers (who use an inordinate amount of gunpowder) you better make sure you hold or conquer as many coal producing villages as you can. In case of coal shortage you will have to make do with Uhlans who only bring lances to the field and are mainly useful for mopping up (like your Yari Cavalry). On the other hand, cavalry ventures behind enemy lines are really 'productive'.
In short, I think the developers have struck an elegant balance with regard to building, resource gathering and battlefield tactics. It can't get much better within the confines of an RTS, I think. Hope this is helpful.
Althought the stacking and lack of friendly fire is appauling, as is the lack of an auto-fire option.
Oh, and the utterly invisible developer support. Free patches would be nice rather than trying to extract more money for expansions to fix the original. Because most people won't pay up again when the original was a turd, an elegant turd maybe, but still a turd.
Nothing is perfect. But I wonder what all those auto-fire buttons are doing on my screen, if they are not for auto-firing. You can order troops, cannon and cavalry to automatically attack anything remotely resembling an enemy.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDC
I will tell you what is brilliant about this game though. This afternoon I pinned down an enemy squadron by sending a couple of individual horsemen from a disbanded unit behind their lines and ordering them to attack this unit from the rear. I watched the enemy unit twist and turn in on itself as it fought off the intruders, clamly marched up my own infantry unit and blew them to smithereens with a single volley. The same diversion tactics can be used with Chasseurs/Rifles operating behind enemy lines, shooting packhorses, cannon, militia or officers and standard bearers out of woods and from behind barns. You can disrupt the enemy's lines and formations, his logistics and morale this way. That is absolutely brilliant.
That is from a user made senario. C2 has a full mission editor. But I'm not usre if you need the patch which breaks the skirmish AI to use it or not. But there is an RPG character element to the game. When you start BFEU you pick a nation and a leading figure of the day from that nation. For example if you pick France you can choose to play as Napoleon himself or Ney or Muraut. You then level up that cahracter via battles. Higher level means you can control more troops and get better troop types.Quote:
Originally Posted by Androo
That is from a user made senario
I thought it was from the Campaign/tutorial where that charachter is present and you get the pop up dialouge .
:shrug: Don't see why not.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianII
I though that too but the tutorial campagin has no instance of you rescuing a damsal in distress.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
Well, I thought maybe, you know.. in view of .org policy.. matter of discretion ..Quote:
Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
*mumbles absent-mindedly to self*
Aaanyway, can anyone answer my question what to do with the Limber that is supposed to make Cannon transport faster? How do you use it?
Limbers are the focus of many bugs. To get it to work you just need room, loads of it. Put the limber 2-3 of it's own lengths in front of the gun you want to attach to it. Also make sure the limber is straight (IE the horses are not at an angle to the wheels). Then select the gun and right click the gun if it moves it will probably attach. Also when you detach the gun from the limber 9times out of 10 it will shoot half way across the map.
Into enemy territory?... :dozey:Quote:
Originally Posted by lars573
In a seemingly random direction.
I see.Quote:
Originally Posted by lars573
*crackle of burning Limber in background*
In a seemingly random direction.
Straight into the middle of the river on one occasion . :oops:
But when they do work they are very handy .
:laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian II
Interesting... I like the sound of that mission editor, but also note your caveat about the patch.Quote:
Originally Posted by lars573
The developer was only allowed to make 1 patch and it was a rush job. It buggered the skirmish AI so that it constantly ran out of gold and it's troops mutinied.
Well skirmishing is usually my favourite way of playing games, so if I get the game eventually, I will definitely avoid that Patch of Death.:skull:
Some of the Skirmishes have bugs. In 'Key to Victory' your troops walk off to the far side of the map immediately after production. On the other hand, the Cannon and Limber thing works fine in my (unpatched) version. I've heard about the patch from Hell. Why, oh why do so many companies treat both their own developers and their customers like excrement?Quote:
Originally Posted by lars573
Sales. GSC (the Cossacks developer) promised the world with C2 and realized in beta testing that machines normal people could buy weren't going to cut it. So they made a few sacrifices in terms of scale and upper limit stability to get it out there. And GSC went ot the various fansite forums and game news mdeia began to sell C2 about 2-3 years before CDV the publisher offically announced it and set a release date. C2 didn't sell well and it's community sounded a lot like some of the hardcore TW players after RTW came out. Shame really it's a good game and with a well though out patch (or two) most of it's bugs could have been squashed. :wall:
Um, right. Yesterday evening I actually fought myself...Quote:
Originally Posted by lars573
You know the Restart feature in the Skirmishes? Not only does it restart the Skirmish you are in, but it also inverts the roles and starting positions of the Skirmish. I played British against Prussians and after beating Heinz into submission I clicked Restart. Lo and behold, I was playing British and confronted with... a British AI, complete with rugged Highlanders and Light Dragoons. Quite confusing in close battles.
:oops: :laugh4:
I promised to get back to you and fess up about any cheating, Lars573. Well, you are right that the AI cheats, and cheats hard, but only toward the end of a Skirmish.Quote:
Originally Posted by lars573
I play in Very Hard mode now and I must say I see no need to cheat on my part. At the start of a Skirmish you can only build a Town Center and Barracks, but with some diligent personnel and resource management it is perfectly possible to complete your tech tree before the AI begins to hit you hard.
Forward deployment and early attacks are of the essence in this game.
I send my first four or five Guardsmen or Musketeers out to the nearest unknown areas of the map as individual scouts, telling me which villages are neutral and which are in enemy hands, as well as in what area the enemy may be massing its troops. Just order individual soldiers to stand in a wood or on a deserted hilltop where the enemy rarely sets foot and they will last you as scouts for the entire game.
My first squadron is ready before I can build an Academy, so off they go to conquer the nearest neutral village without Officer, Standard Bearer or Drummer. They never fail. Enemy villages are something different.
New resources bring new buildings, including my Academy. By the time the AI attacks and I need squadrons with Officers & all, they will be available. If you have properly scouted out the enemy, you can send them where they do the most damage, and the AI has trouble keeping up with your pace. As far as I am aware it does not cheat in this phase. After I manage to beat it fair and square in some hotly contested vilage, it obviously has trouble getting back on its feet.
Only toward the end of the game, when the AI has visibly run out of resources (because I have captured most of them) it starts to cheat and keeps raising expensive troops as if money were not an issue. This makes you end game expensive in terms of coal, usually too expensive for your coal mines to keep up.
However, by that time I have 500 peasants working my fields, woods and mines and food and stone are usually at 999999. I run the finest infantry (usually Grenadiers and Light Infantry) and horsemen that food, iron and stone can buy, and coal shortages are met by means of timely market purchases. But most of all, by that time I will have built a fearsome artillery corps with Howitzers driven by Limbers (I find them useful after all, and the Limber bug rarely 'kidnaps' my guns) with which I simply blow the AI's Barracks and Stables to smithereens.
Well C2 is a PC game which means a bug that affects me you may not ever see. And you can have problems that I'll never know about.
Yeah, I agree. Why can't they just provide a button for people like us who want to separate the strategic from the tactical element?Quote:
Originally Posted by SpencerH
You hit the button and time stops, at which time you can plan your strategy, place your buildings and so on. Then you hit the button again and your workers start building and your armies start marching and so on.
They could still provide the classic RTS experience for everyone who wants to play clickfest. But there are so many people out there like me who hate clickfests, these game companies are missing out on a whole market. It's sheer idiocy on their part.
Well, I think for many, but not all, RTS games the necessity for the player to click and build madly is used to obscure the laziness of the designers in regards to creating a strategic level which is complex, realistic and demanding of thought. In other words, I think most RTS's are 'no-brainers'. However, for those RTS's which do have an interesting strategic component, such a specific kind of pause button (ie time stops but one can still give production orders) would be a brilliant addition. (Of course, in its absence one can just normally pause or stop the game while one considers one's options.)Quote:
Originally Posted by screwtype
By the way, I'm not suggesting that this game is a standard RTS. I haven't played it, but it sounds pretty interesting to me.
Yes I think there's some truth to that. Take away the frantic clickfesting and there probably isn't much to get excited about...Quote:
Originally Posted by Androo
To tell the truth, it sounds exactly like AOEII to me. I downloaded the AOEII demo and quickly removed it from my HD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Androo
I am sooo hanging out for a decent strategy game, having finally exhausted all the possibilities of Imperialism II. That reminds me, I saw a copy of Gary Grigsby's World at War in my local EB the other day. I must go and see if I can find a review or two of that game.
C2 has a pause button. It's tildy (the button to the left of 1/! on a standard keyborad). Where you can issue movement orders, and que up buildings.
Indeed, that is one of the main uses of the Pause button in Cossacks II: get your logistics in order.Quote:
Originally Posted by lars573
I heard there is going to be an expansion, so there might be another patch too.
The demo doesn't even run on my PC though :no:
That sounds perfect: one can play the game as either a real time or turn-based strategy game.Quote:
Originally Posted by lars573
I think you are right. In the meantime I have been promoted to General and I have conquered Yurp twice. I found that the BfE is easier than a Skirmish in Very Hard mode. Although in the BfE the strategic part outweighs the weaker tactical AI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
It is as if in each BfE battle the AI has only one plan, and as soon as that fails they fall back on hillsides, replenish in nearby villages and hang back in the hope that you will run out of gunpowder. I am not complaining because that is actually quite realistic. Battle plans used to last only so long in the period; after that it was up to the initiative of individual officers.
But if you fail to corner them properly, the AI sure tans your hide and hangs you out to dry. Yesterday, playing Ney, I sweated for a full fifteen minutes as I attempted to outmaneuver the Bey. Not a shot was fired whilst he tried to launch his Tuaregs where they could wreak havoc on my lines and I tried to pre-empt him. You can usually take the Tuaregs out with either three Fusileer volleys, or one Fusileer plus one Voltiger volley. And a Howitzer softens them up nicely since they move slowly. But getting these assets in place at the right spot and at the right time was a heck of a job.
EDIT
The strenght of this AI is that it mercilessly exploits your weak spots in its initial attack. Even if that is its only plan, it is good enough to keep you on tenterhooks. You are constantly faced with the dilemma of whether to (1) split your force, cover all angles and conquer assets in remote villages, or (2) concentrate your force and hope for a quick, decisive mass battle.
Hey Adrian II (and anybody else who is playing the game at the moment), how about some After Action Reports (with screens!)?! I need my (vicarious) fix of this game!
Edit,02-14-2006: I went cold turkey.~:(