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ok ok,i dont have anything against Poles!
After all i recently had a girl from poland ~D
(but Trebzon no and yes to Moldavia(?)-they were Rhomaioi too-and their Emperors.the Great Komnenoi were the true children of Komnenoi dynasty!)
oK,the mod is great anyway!!!
keep on!!
good, it is for when?
We've just started. So, can't specify a date.
@Seleukos
Sorry to dissapoint you, but the Moldavians and Wallachians had more contacts than the Trebizondians. They were a small greek state, but were destroyed easily by the Ottomans.
Plus, the Moldavians and Wallachians were even mercenaries in large numbers in the Byzantine army.
Easily destroyed by the Turks?
Empire of Tapezounta :1203-1461
Trebzon fell after Constantinopolis.
It was not so small-spread from time to time to all the northern cost of Anatolia.
Involved in war at the early 13th cent with Nicea,and defeated in a great Battle,but still struggling to take Constantinoupolis back from the Latins.
making alliance with other nations ,like Mongols,involving in the conflict of Venice and Genoa.
Had its symbol the one -head Eagle.
Its own greek dialect,similar to ancient greek,the only dialect that survives in modern greek (Pontiac dialect).
So,it was not isolated at all,and played an important role in Byzantine history,-in fact it was A PART of the Byzantine history.
they were more than just part of it, by the end they were about the only allies the Byzantines had left (apart from the genoese)
The Trapezunt Empire is too small to be included...
And they resisted long because:
1.)Constant turmoil between the Seldjuk's, Mongols....
2.)Incompetent commanders of their enemies
3.)Their capital was up in the mountains....
Anyways, the Trapezunt Empire is too small. I also excluded the Despotate of Moreea and Epirus because of the same thing.
Maybe we will have a place for them. :)
The Niceean Era campaign will include them. ~:)
Hi everyone,
No need to argue. The facts are facts.
Here we go, Hellenes disputing things. It shouldn't be.
Each group/empire:
the trapezountes
Despotate of Epirus-Ali Pasha
Vlachoi-Greeks with Roman blood lines, kai ta loipa....
Komnenoi, Paleologoi, All 5 Patriarchies and their Sees,etc.
should ALL be included.
After all, we are Hellenes aren't we? Firstly, OUR chance to show our stuff.
If I knew how to mod, don't you think that I would jump in on that end?
I don't though, so I contribute in other ways, mostly historical, if need be in the future, financial. I'm poor, (part time student now, on my last class which is my business admin. capstone-it's tough).
This is a SUPERB mod, and ANY help I can give is NEVER A PROBLEM and my priviledge.
That's how all our attitudes should be, re paidia.
Na Exetai Yia. Antio.
Stefanos.
Hellas,
Sorry to dissapoint you. But we cannot include all of the factions.
The game has faction limits. We include the largest and most powerful factions.
Hopefully BI will boost the faction limit a bit
It doesn't
Meneldil is right...
It doesn't. :embarassed:
Good news, our first update is ready. ~D ~:cheers:
Dear Edyz,
I do agree with what you say.
Besides, you did mention that they would be in some campaign or rather! ;)
What an odd geographic placement & time it must have been for our relatives!
P.S.
Have you experienced this?:
I have BI on a 2.4 ghz, 512 mb ram, 128mb ram nvidia card and the game lags!
Why? I thought my specs were enough?
Can you help me with this?
If this doesn't get rectified, Byzantium won't work either! That's why I ask.
Se efharisto, para poli.
Long Live Greece! Long Live Byzantium Total War! ~:cheers:
My PC has almost the same specks but works fine with rome RTR 5.4 and the barbarian invasion demo, maybee you need to lower the graphics settings
Hungary
======
In 976 Hungary is a principality but a kingdom from 1000. Maybe the Hungary name will be the best.
The nomad Magyars lived in tents called jurta, plural jurták. This is important to all the 'buildings'. I suggest some of the starting buildings should be tents, but the upgrades must be buildings.
Christian, Orthodox and pagan temples can be built giving the player the chance to choose. In the 11th century there were pagan revolts, therefore there were pagan people.
I suggest Level 3 Catholic temple is needed to build the 4th level palace and 4th level Catholic temple to 5th level palace. Therefore the player has some motivation to choose the western Christianity which was the historical way.
The pagan shrines are:
- Shrine to Úristen (+10 happiness, requires town), Sacred groove of Úristen (+20 happiness, requires large town), Sanctuary of Úristen (+30 happiness, requires city).
Note: the old god were called later 'the god of the Magyars'. We don't know any personal name to Him, maybe He hadn't any.
- Shrine to Boldogasszony (+10 happiness, requires town), Sacred groove of Boldogasszony (+20 happiness, requires large town), Sanctuary of Boldogasszony (+30 happiness, requires city).
Note: Úristen means word by word 'Godlord', Boldogasszony means 'Happywoman'. We have only traces of the old religion.
If you use the RTW type shrines Úristen should be a law-type god, and Boldogasszony a fertility or mother type goddess with public health bonus.
Note: Ancillary (priests to both): Táltos (+1 influence, +1 public health).
- Forest clearings 5 levels
- Paths, Mud roads
Note: does they mean the basic roads? I suggest level 1 roads. In the middle ages there were very bad roads in Europe.
- Trader (+20% trade), Market (+40% trade), Merchant (+60% trade)
- Port, Shipyard
- Blacksmith (+1 to all weapons, requires Iron resource), Master blacksmith (+2 to all weapons, requires Iron resource), Armorer (+1 to all armor, will NOT require blacksmith in order to be constructed), Master armorer (+2 to all armor)
- Salt mine (+1 mining), Large salt mine (+2 mining), Copper mine (+2 mining), Large copper mine (+4 mining), Silver mine (+3 mining), Large silver mine (+6 mining), Gold mine (+4 mining), Large gold mine (+8 mining). All mines require their respective resources in the province in order to be possible to build.
[Transylvania had rich salt and gold mines but I suppose you learnt about it in your school…]
- Proper sewage (+10% health bonus), Herbal medicine (+15% health bonus).
NOTE: these buildings are not typical medieval ones, but if other factions can build them, also the Magyars must be able too.
- all type of walls
- Practise target [may called also Bowmaker] (+1 missile weapon xp), Archery range (+2 missile weapon xp), Masters of Archery (+3 missile weapon xp)
Note: I put here the 3rd level. It does not need Bowmaker.
NOTE: These buildings are used in Vikings and F.
- Muster field (something town watch, peasants)
- Stables Magyar warriors {Magyar vitézek} [light horse archers, reflex bow, no armor, spontoon {fokos}, fast, good stamina, ZOR in Hungary], Lancemen {Kopjások} [medium cavalry, SWORD, reflex bow, lance, shield], Chosen Magyar Warriors {Válogatott magyar vitézek} [SWORD and bow, very-very good leather armour, elite, good stamina, ZOR in Hungary].
Knights {Lovagok}: western –Saxon- type knight unit. They should be cost 20% more or less in numbers than their reasonable value and +1 turn recruiting time.
NOTE: I don't see any reason separate the Magyar, Kabar and Székely horse archers. In the text of the Warriors can be written to mention their nations.
- Cavalry training field (+1 to cavalry xp, requires Stables), Cavalry training grounds (+2 to cavalry xp, requires Cavalry stables)
NOTE: These buildings are used in Vikings and F.
- Siege engineer
and other general European things.
No university!
Symbolizing the Magyars who remain in the eastern Steppes there can be Magyar rebels.
See also: Hungarian history 1038-1301
http://mek.oszk.hu/01900/01955/html/
Hungarian prehistory from the beginnings to king St. Stephen (1038)
http://mek.oszk.hu/01900/01993/html/
This is the oldest banner we know. But in the earliest version there wasn't a base under the cross. This isn't historically correct yet but I don't know better.
http://mek.oszk.hu/01900/01993/html/index139.html
The chronicles say Saint Stephen went to battle under the banner of St. George and St. Martin. Maybe a warrior on flag?
But in the age of Géza (historically Gyejcsa, or Gyeücsa or Geisza or Décsa :-), ruler to 997) there wasn't any flag very likely.
There is a fiction with a turul (a kind of falcon) on red background, which is surely just a dim idea.
Thanks very much Csatadi!!!
The information is very useful. Thanks.
We have begun work on the other tech trees. ~:)
I think,there must be albanians as mercenary unit and as a regular unit at the service of Despotate of Epirus.
They can also be hired as mercenaries by Venice and Genoa and by whoever has the regions of modern-day Albania..
[QUOTE=Csatadi]Hungary
======
In 976 Hungary is a principality but a kingdom from 1000. Maybe the Hungary name will be the best....
- Stables Magyar warriors {Magyar vitézek} [light horse archers, reflex bow, no armor, spontoon {fokos}, fast, good stamina, ZOR in Hungary], Lancemen {Kopjások} [medium cavalry, SWORD, reflex bow, lance, shield], Chosen Magyar Warriors {Válogatott magyar vitézek} [SWORD and bow, very-very good leather armour, elite, good stamina, ZOR in Hungary].
Knights {Lovagok}: western –Saxon- type knight unit. They should be cost 20% more or less in numbers than their reasonable value and +1 turn recruiting time.
NOTE: I don't see any reason separate the Magyar, Kabar and Székely horse archers. In the text of the Warriors can be written to mention their nations.
Are the Szekely not the descendants of the Huns and the Avars?I 've read that they inhabited the region of Transylvania after being expelled from Pannonia by the Carolingian army?~:confused:
The reality is we don't know the origin of the Székely people. Maybe they were Bulgarians (eskils), or other turk tribe e.g. khabar. Who knows it exactly nowadays? The Hun heritage is a popular idea, and some people think the whole Magyar nation are from the Huns. Interesting idea. But there isn't anybody who really knows the reality. These theories are only fictions.Quote:
Originally Posted by SIGNIFER,LEGIOVIICLAUDIA
Be aware Huns and Avars were different people!
The Székelys guarded the borders in Transylvania and the western countryside. They spoke and speak Magyar and there isn't any trace of other language. It doesn't mean they spoke Magyar all the time.
Their military units were light cavalry but almost the entire Magyar army was light cavalry with the same weapons.
Good info. ~:)
Also, the tech tree for the Byzantines is done. ~:)
Will post it tommorrow. ~:)
a quick look a couple of the unit rosters
Early
ByzantinesBulgars
- Infantry
- Phylakes(urban militia)
large shield and spear- Evzones guardsmen
?- Skoutatoi
spear, kite shield, chainmail- Epirote Infantry
spear, kite shield, chainmail(similar to skoutatoi, only available in epirus)- Kontaratoi
pike, kite shield, chainmail- Paramonai
sword, kite shield, helmet and little else- Menevlatoi
long spear or polearm, small round shield, chainmail- Dismounted Kataphraktoi
sword, kite shield, chainmail and scale armour- Varangian Guard
double handed axe, round shield, chainmail- Skirmishers
- Psiloi
slings- Psiloi toxotai
bow, sword and light armour- Peltastoi
shield, javelins, sword- Peltastoi Enoplioi
shield, javelins, sword(heavier javelineer)- Mourtatoi
bow, sword, chainmail- Cavalry
- Trapezountioi
horse archers from trebizond- Latinikon Tagmata
frankish knights- Hippeis Toxotai
horse archers- Stratiotai
?- Kataphraktoi
bow, chainmail, sword, full horse barding- Athanatoi
lance, chainmail and small shield- Klibanophoroi
lance, sword, small shield, chainmail, full horse barding- Tagmata Klibanophoroi
heavier more skilled Klibanophoroi- Tagmata Kataphraktoi
heavier more skilled KataphraktoiHoly Roman Empire
- Infantry
- Urban militia
?- Slav spearmen
spear and shield and little else- Slav swordsmen
sword and shield and little else- Bulgar Spearmen
spear, round shield, chainmail- Bulgar Swordsmen
sword, round shield, chainmail- Bulgar Pagan Infantry
sabre, round shield, chainmail- Chimnnik
hook, sword, kite shield(like western foot knights)chainmail and scale- Skirmishers
- Slav bowmen
very basic acher, bow and short sword- Slav javelinmen
javelins, short sword, and shield- Bulgar Archers
bow and sword chainmail- Bulgar Elite Archers
bow and sword chainmail and scale- Cavalry
- Zera
basically mounted archers with chain mail and a sword- Bulgar Light cavalry
armed with chain mail, lance and sword- Bagatur
scale armour and chainmail, javelin and axe, hopefully we can make these throw their spear before charging. some horse barding- Bulgar Boyar
mounted archer, armed with scale and chainmail, sword and bow. some horse barding
- Infantry
- Feudel men at arms
chain mail, shield and sword- Swabian swordsmen
2 handed sword and chain mail- Feudel foot knights
chain mail, shield and sword- Spearmen
spear and shield, no armour- Feudel sergents
spear and sheild, light armour- Militia Sergents
polearm and good armour- Skirmishers
- Thuringian Archers
powerful archers, bow and sword- Archers
bow and dagger- Paviese Crossbow
just add a shield- Crossbows
crossbow and dagger- Cavalry
- Royal knights
lance and shield, heavy armour- Mounted crossbows
the name says it all- mounted sergents
ance and shield, light armour
Thanks blindfaith.
Here's some good news:
The faction list has been completely changed. Check page 1. ~:)
We are waiting your suggestions. ~:)
Hi again folks,
I commend any and everyone working on this mod, everything I've seen is beautiful and kick butt too.
It's good to see the changes in the factions. They reflect more of what was happening at those specific time periods.
Here is some historical food for thought everyone to "play" with:
Phanariotes were a kind of freedom fighter per se. So, perhaps a plus in their strenth, zeal and stamina should be added.
The seljuk turks were driven out by the ottomans and of course the byzantines "worked" on them too around what, 10th or 11th century? Eventually eliminating them. They got crunched from both ends!
That should be reflected in game, when blurbs come up as an ex. "Celtic faction has been destroyed/eliminated".
The byzantine emperors were very much influence by the 5 patriarchies I mentioned earlier. I hope the mod reflects this. Perhaps this can be a type of sub-senate per se?
Lastly friends, I was thinking about Naptha, Siege weapons like the trebuchet, yes the byzantines used it, and called it the "triboutseto" and giant ballista, etc. The byzantines from my research did use these, but not the trebuchet so much.
Just things to mentally munch on, all!
No Disrespect or Belittling meant to ANYONE!
Long Live BTW! Long Live Greece!
Hellas1 ! my Greek friend from US.
Phanariotes were not fighters-they were an elite of scholars,who lived in Constantinopolis and came out after the 16th -17th century.
The seljucs were weakened much after they defeat by the mongols (koesedag 1242),not the ottomans.
Finally i dont think the Patriarchate could be a senate-the Emperor was responisble for all political acts and for war and peace.
Anyway,its good reading Greek history! :book:
Hey guys. ~:)
Work is going great. New units, and new research. ~:)
The Phanariotes were in the 17th century, in Romania. They were the rulers of Romania, imposed by the Ottoman Empire.
The Seldjuk's will eventually dissapear in 1328.
They will be replaced by the Ottoman Empire.
Instead of ’something town watch’ I wrote earlier I suggest this to Hungary:
Várőrség (Castle guards) - they can have spears, shields and leather armour. Low stats, they are only for town watch not for fight. The Magyar army was cavalry.
I suggested swords to the Magyar vitézek, but nobody will know if they get sabres. ~D This way you can use the AOVAF models easily.
There should also exist the Akritai,light cavalry that can be dismounted,armoured with swords,bows and maces(mace=apelatikion).These people were farmer-soldiers(yeomen) that guarded the eastern borders of Byzantium(like the limitanei in the earlier uears of Eastern Roman history).Quote:
Originally Posted by blindfaithnogod
Thanks for the suggestion.
We'll take it into account. ~:)
@Csatadi
We'll use AOVAF models. We have an alliance with them. ~:cheers:
Hi all,
Wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!
OWWWWWWWWW!
I'm happy for everyone.
I try to be historically correct and am not proud enough to be corrected!
Major Siege weapons: Great crossbows, Trebuchets, Mangonels, Siege towers, Naptha?
My ideas of the stratoiotes should be a type of intermediate infantry fighter or fighter/archer infantryman in other words.
I see a great many "heavy" units.
Some little nibbles to chew on all:
What about more mercs, ex. Venetians? the evzones, from my understanding, were an elite fighting group and maybe should be catered stat-wise as such.
Edyz, will dynastic reigns be implemented or merely the "Eras' per se? Ex. Paleologoi, Komnenoi, Romanoi, etc vs. Early, High, etc periodsor will the eras include the dynastic reigns? Only thinking out loud.
Long live O Basileus, Long live all the contributors to this mod! Long Live BTW!
Without Ellas & what it gave, would there be a Rome?
Yes, I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by edyzmedieval
But you must use also knight units which are not in the time of Vikings.
And the slav warriors I suggested there are not suitable to this era. Maybe they are historically uncorrect also in 843 but also there must be some infantry guard unit.
In Vikings Magyars are a Steppen culture but in your mod Hungary is between paganism and Christianism. And probably Christianity will win.
I am thinking on the siege engines. I am doing the tech trees and some other things like campmap and basic coding....Quote:
Originally Posted by hellas1
So, I am thinking what to include.
Hellas, your idea is excellent, with the dynasties. If the team accepts it, then we will have dynasties. ~:)
I will bring on a list of mercs. We have it made over at the Imperium forum.
@Csatadi
I'll post the Hungarian tech tree, and we'll see what we haven't got it right. ~:)
Thanks!!!
Csatadi,thank you for the historical information.I knew that the Szekelys are closely related to the Magyar nation,I did not know however that they speak only Magyar.I thought that they speak some other language.:bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Csatadi
This idea is very good.Quote:
Originally Posted by edyzmedieval
In the Byzantine Empire there were several families like the Komnenoi,Angeloi,Focas,Dalassenoi,Dukes that formed the military aristocracy.They had great estates in the eastern Asia Minor and for centuries they gave great men to the empire.Their extermination by the Seljouk Turks marked the start of the end for the Empire.The Empire not only lost the rich and productive lands of Asia Minor but also lost the families that had given ledendary commanders and skillfull diplomats in the past.
I suggest that there are families in the game contesting for power,just like in RTW.I also suggest that there are women emperors.This means that when there are no male successors to the throne,but ther are daughters,then there should be an Empress,like Irene the Athenian,Theofano,Anna Komnene etc.
Also when one dynasty is wiped out of the game should not end but there should be a civil war and the player must be asked to support one of the generals.
There's another good idea. ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by SIGNIFER,LEGIOVIICLAUDIA
I'll discuss with the team, along with the progress. ~:)
But, we'll have to do some real coding to find out if it works....
Questions:
Will all Tagmatic Divisions included in the unit list like the Scholae, Excubitores, Numeri, the Hetaireia, etc, etc, etc?
Other additional tagmatic groups *but possibly redundant by 976)
Ikanatoi (Hicanati) - elite cavalry
Immortals - under Ioannis Tzshemeshagh
Ethiopian regiment - Negro bodyguards
Other groups of soldiers that settled in empire and possibly still existing in 976:
Persian Tagmata - descendants of Khurramite heretics who converted to Christianity and settled aorund Paphlagonia and later dispersed around the empire.
Banu Habib - Arab tribes who converted to Christianity recently
Other lesser known and possibly redundant mercenary elite regiments include:
Maglavites (Mahgribi Western Muslim cavalry)
Pharganoi (Slaves bought from the Ferghana region)
Another interesting unit during the Comnenan period:
A small English regiment that survived Hastings were given a commission by Alexius to settle the ravaged region of modern day Dobrudja in ROmania.
Thanks Kataphraktoi. ~:cheers:
Never heard of them though, have to research some more to confirm your sources....
As for the Tagmatic, yeah. It's a problem with this. We need to find more guys for the Tagmatic feature. :book:
Thanks anyways. ~:cheers:
And some news.
We are preparing the second update. So far, 6 new units have been made, and some small work regarding the campmap.
~:cheers:
Hicanati
Ethiopian regiment
Maghlavites
in Osprey Byzantine armies 886-1118
Immortals
Pharganoi
Banu Habib
in John Julius Norwich's trilogy - particularly in the Apogee
Persian Tagmata (not the same as the Tagmata of the capital but Tagmata as in a body of troops/division)
in Treadgold's Byzantine State and Society
Another thing I was wondering about: will there be Solenarions? initially I mistook it for crossbows but they are heavy darts used by foot archers.
Solenas (pron .solinas) in greek means tube. So they should fire darts with a blowtube or something like that.~:handball:Quote:
Originally Posted by kataphraktoi
Objection 1)Quote:
Originally Posted by blindfaithnogod
Guys! so many chainmails! ~:) In the early period (esp until 1080) the main protection of the soldiers body was klivanion (lamellar) and lorikion (scale) armour. Chainmail (the zava) was not so famous among the Byzantines!
Objection 2)
Who are the Trapezountae..? In greek the word means: many Trebzons ! (Trapezounta=Trebzon) They would have been called "Trapezountioi" (people from Trebzon)
I think its an obvious missunderstanding with "Trapezitae" (also called "Monozonoi"=one belted) who were the light Byzantine infantry of this era.
:charge:
they are going to be mounted archers, we should obviously change the name based on that info, thanks. :)
EDIT: updated
Thanks for the info guys.
Looks like we're gonna have problems with the unit and model limits. ~D
Also, new screenshots are on they way, along with the second update!!! ~:cheers:
New screens. Tell me what do you think of them. ~:cheers:
They might be reworked. If so, they'll be in our second update which will come soon. ~:)
Paramonai(lively colours..if you want, I can post the toned down version)
https://img187.imageshack.us/img187/...ramonai0fj.jpg
https://img187.imageshack.us/img187/...amonai28dn.jpg
Mourtatoi(armoured archers)
https://img187.imageshack.us/img187/...urtatoi6gm.jpg
https://img187.imageshack.us/img187/...rtatoi25jp.jpg
Hope you liked them.
Ups!!!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Seleukos
Not infantry ,but light CAVALRY!!!!! :charge:
No problem.
It was normal because the Trapezitae was light cavalry, so I figured it out.... ~:cheers:
good job~:)
I have mentioned it in the "byzantiumtotalwar forum" too-
the guys on the screenshot dont seem to be mourtatoi - they are like heavy 10th-11th century infantry with bows.
Mourtatoi were Turks who became christians,and their clothing had turkish elements too.
they will be changed, ;), or rather they have been changed
When the update comes, you'll see lots of new units.
It has been a postponed, because we want some more units done. ~:)
Hello Edyz!
Some history & thoughts.
Check it out. In the 8th or 9th century, Byzantium sent missionaries to the slavic people(s) of Modern Day Russia, or Rus. They converted and became "eastern" christian, which developed into orthodoxy and spoke and still speak "Cyrillic" named after Cyril, one of those missionaries.
Connections between us Greeks & Russians are still ongoing, my friend.
My question is this: How far time wise will Russia be involved in BTW in the later Byzantine time period?
Another thought is this, friend:
What about Albania & Yugoslavia? In later Byzantine times, I believe, Albania was called, from what I know, "Alvania", in Greek. Yugoslavia was composed of Moldavia, I think, Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia and other provinces/kingdoms, not to forget Translyvania with Vlad Tepes, Armenia and Pontus which was pretty much Greek at that time, I believe, and acted as an center for trade and had outposts along the Black Sea. Greeks from that area are still called "Pontiaki."
My point on this one is this: Will these be addressed also?
It would be interesting to see developments along these lines. ~:cheers:
You know darn it, I wish I could mod. I suck. Sorry, dude.
I want to contribute to make this Para Poli Oraio-Gk. for Very, Very, Beautiful/Excellent.
Hellas1-"Na Zisi O Basilieus ton Byzantinon, Na Zisi H Ellas, Na Zisi BTW!"
Hey, man Yugoslavia is a country from nowadays, not from the 10th!Quote:
What about Albania & Yugoslavia?
You think it badly. Moldavia was under Pecheneg control until 1070-72.
Vlad Tepes is a guy from the 15th century and from Wallachia.
Transylvania is part of Hungary (in this era).
Thanks, I laughed very much! ~D
Vlad Tepes is from Walalchia, from the 15th century.
Moldavia was under Pecheneg and Avar rule.
After that, it was part of Kiev.
But in the 14th century, they became independent, with some excellent units, like Moldavian archers, which packed a big punch. They will be included. ~:)
Hey All,
Thanks!
Just trying to give some input, ya'know?
Later, By the way, Keep up the good work.
P.S. Remember, I mentioned Serbia, Moldavia, etc., composing what is NOW Yugoslavia. Not "Yugoslavia" only. Cool?, cool.
Where did you get the 10th century from, I never mentioned the 10th century, re-read what I said.
It was meant for the late Byzantine period guys!
Also, for Edyz & Seleukos, guys, How can you not include the patriarchies and their influence? Orthodoxy is an INTEGRAL part of Byzantium. Please, friends, re-consider this issue. Na Eisaste Kala.
Looks promising edyzmedieval and blindfaithnogod, keep up the good work~:cheers:
Small side question: are you going to make the mod for BI or RTW 1.3?
Germansee,
It's for RTW BI. We might do one for RTW 1.3, who knows. ~:)
@hellas1
We'll have a title with the patriarch. We might include the Patriarchy as the Senate. We'll think about it.
I think u shouldnt do this guys,Quote:
Originally Posted by edyzmedieval
the patriarch may sometimes have influenced politics,but in any case he wasnt like the Pope.
The emperor was the absolute ruler of the empire.
Then how are we gonna implement the Patriarchy?!
Sincerely, I have no idea for this....
I agree with Seleukos.The supreme ruler of the Empire was only the Emperor or the Empress.Whoever was against the faith of the Emperor,who was seen at that time as the king of kings appointed by God Himself to bring the orthodox version of Christianity to the Universe,was seen as a heretic.There were many patriarchs who were just executed by the Emperor with the charge of conspiracy and heresy or were lynched by the crowd in the Circus Maximus of Constantinople.The patriarch was in fact a puppet of the Emperor,unlike in the West,where the Pope was struggling to survive fighting against the German Emperor and the Byzantine Emperor.:knight:Quote:
Originally Posted by Seleukos
I agree that the Patriarch was a puppet. But we will try to find a way to include this guy also....
~:cheers:
P.S.: We might fusion with Crusader TW.....
Hello All!
Thank you for at least considering my input.
I'm not trying to cause problems, only what I believe to be some useful historical helps to this mod, as this mod is meant to follow historical realism.
To me, Edyz and Seleukos (Filarakia mou), "Byzavtivoi" and "Orthodoxia" go hand in hand. Impossible to separate. Even through the rise, waxing and waning of Byzantium, the Greek people and orthodox religion went hand in hand. Even up to the time of the Greek rebellion against Turkish occupation in 1821 (Kolokotronis, Bouboulina, kai ta Lnpa va poume) and after, religion & gov't were and are still tied together in Greece.
Even though it's not like the Patriarchs are the pope, clearly they aren't.
Nor were they meant to be as such, I believe they/he ,whatever, should be a included as sub-senate type of figure/character.
Just my thoughts, folks. That's it.
Kali Nnxta, paidia!
Aiwvia H Ellas! Hellas1 (From Thessalia!)
Hehe Hellas ~:)
It's kinda hard to implement the Patriarch because of the limits of the TW engine. Anyways, we'll try to see what we can do about this. ~:)
More work done, including the campaign map. ~:cheers:
Hi all,
Do what you feel is right and what coding allows!
I only want the very best mod possible and am trying to give whatever input I can sir.
Thank you for respecting me.
-Na Zisi O Basileus kai H Ellas mazi!
Hellas1~:cheers:
You're welcome Hellas. ~:cheers:
You might wanna help us with some historical info. Come to our Imperium forum, we need some help. ~:)
Good news guys!!! The update is almost ready!!!! ~:cheers:
Quote:
Originally Posted by edyzmedieval
Guys ,there is a mistake here.
We cannot include both Byzantine Empire and Empire of Nicea.
In 1204 there is no empire in Constantinoupolis(i m sure u know this)
So,either the player should start the High period as Byzantine Empire but not controlling Constantinoupolis,
or this:
There could be separate factions:Epirus,Trapezounta,Nicea and the player can choose one of them.The faction among these which takes Constantinoupolis changes to "Byzantine Empire"-and if it looses it is renamed again in epirus,nic,trap)
I think this is the most historically correct,but i dont know how and if this can be programmed.
Around that time, don't you have the Crusader State Latin Kingdom or Empire in control of Constantinople and Macedonia? just a small question of sort's.:knight: ~:cheers: :knight:Quote:
Originally Posted by Seleukos
OOPs!!! My mistake!!! ~D
Sorry, will edit. ~:)
A suggestion for the Patriarch issue.
Create a unit like the orthodox priests in BI.
This Patriarch "Unit" will have an entourage of priests around him with the Patriarch as an "officer" unit.
In addition, the cost training and upkeep of a "Patriarch" will be expensive for two reaons:
a) discourage stupidity of training more than one Patriarch by players for watever reason
b) because they were leeches of Imperial revenues - in history, imperial patronage of church was quite an expensive exercise
This Patriarch unit should have absolutely no combat ability....no duh!!
But it should have the historically correct ability to raise morale.
Now, if only they could gain vices and virtues
hmm... are priests units abvle to be modded to carry relics and icons?
Funny. You seem to have gave me a modding breaktrough.... ~:cheers:
We can do the Patriarch like a character, with his own unit card. He will be able to get vices and virtues. He won't be able to construct or recruit mercenaries. He will have Mounted Orthodox Priests. They will be much more powerful Orthodox Priests.
They will be recruitable, and have a huuuge training cost. And only 1 time, if that's possible.
They can be modelled to have a relic. ~:)
We'll see what we can do with these guys. ~D
Looks good edzy. I am very interested.
Thanks!
Azi
Glad you like it Azi.~:)
We are working hard to bring to the modding community an excellent mod. ~:cheers:
I think we shouldnt forget the monks!!
They were playing a very significant role in byzantine society-influenced the people very much.
It is said that during the 10th century,its estimated that 1/4 of the Byzantines were living in monasteries! (even if is an exaggerasion,it shows the spread of monasteries and hermites in Byzantine world).
I don't think we should include Monks on the battlefield... Come on, it's not historical!!!
Monasteries, Hermitages and other religious buildings will surely be included. ~:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by edyzmedieval
Yes ,yes! i didnt mean on battlefield.
Although there were priests,who followed the army on campaign,and even praying before the charge.
Why don't you make the Patriach a title that can be given to anyone of your family members (works like a retinue or ancilliary). That way, the Patriarch is in the game and a member of your faction. The title can give him a plus 5 in influence or something.
AHHHHHHHH, Discussion about something historical- The Patriarch
Actually it should be Patriarchs-Antioch, Jerusalem, Alexandria, Byzantium, and somewhere else! Read about it!
I like it. Lively discussion folks! Great.
Dear Edyz,
Where is BTW's imperium forum for my historical input?
ie. how do I navigate there?
Thank you, sir! No more posting from me here, I just wanted to stress this actual, historical point.
P.S. I've been thinking about buying some byzantine secular & religious music to implement in this mod! Cool?
~:cool:
@Evil Ned
No, we can't do that. It won't be historical
@hellas
Religious music.... I don't think so. It would be too boring....~:handball:
Here's the link to the Imperium forum:
http://s10.invisionfree.com/Imperium_Total_War
Go to Byzantium TW forum, just slide down. ~:)
Cheers everybody ~:cheers:
Why wouldn't it be historical? You have one character who is a patriach and he is obviously an underling to the emperor. Should the emperor become displeased with him, he can easily replace him with someone else. And the Patriach WAS a title carried by many men.
I think it would be very historical, actually.
To call Patriarchs underlings of Emperors is just simple generalising it to the point of unbelievability.
True, the Patriarchs weren't as powerful as the Pope's but they were still powerful. Very few Patriarchs were directly placed by Emperors, most of the time they wer4e the perogative of the church.
In Byzantine history, Patriarchs gave the Emperors headaches when secular and religious interests clashed. This represents how strong a Patriarch could impose his personality when his church's prestige and power had to be upheld. Examples were Michael Cerularius, Photius and Polyeuctus.
To solve the issue of the Antiochean, Jerusalemite, Alexandrian, Constantinopolitan Patriarchs why not make 4 Patriarchs with their own respective "city" designators. eg. "Patriarch of Antioch". It is up to the player to create and train one Patriarch for each of the 4 Patriarchates instead of being stupid and creating a whole bunch of them.
Possible solution:
Make Patriarchs out of spy units so they can install themselves in friendly and enemy cities. Their presence can cause unrest in enemy cities if they represent Christians in Muslim and Pagan cities.
In addition, like spies they can get kicked out. Well, despite all this fallacy about Muslim tolerance Christian Patriarchs did experience the thin end of the rod when things went badly against Muslim armies on the Byzantine frontiers.
Make Patriarchs out of diplomat units. Patriarchs can and plausibly did serve the role as interceders and intermediaries between states and as representatives of Christians.
-------------------------------
Interesting proposal Kataphraktoi. ~:)
Now, what do you think of our screenshots?! Are they good units?!
huh? what screenies?
on the org or twcenter??
Byzantium had an interesting department for intelligience gathering.
If I recall there was an "Office of Barbarians".
IN this mod, you might decide to make another spy unit and mod his skin to be that of a court official depending on what faction he is spying against. Historians have alluded to Byzantium's use of spies by installing them in enemy courts.
Examples:
A spy dressed as an Abbasid court official and placed in the Abbasid capital
A spy dressed as a Bulgarian court official and placed in the Bulgarian capital
Here;s another thing that rattled in my head today.
Is it possible to position forts with miitary units in the text files in the RTW: BI directory. It would be interesting to set up Byzantine fortifications in mountain passes and river crossings by the time you start the campaign in the first year. It could apply for Byzantium's enemies.
Eg. Tripoli was well fortified, but so were Emesa, Raphanea and Shaizar in the nearby regions. And since u cant make provinces for each important fortified place, you might was well place forts there with troops there.