Franks (BI faction)

Thanks :bow:

I actually forgot about paladins because I never converted to Christianity; the +3xp was too much for me to resist, even with happiness trouble. ^^;

The sword and axe heerbanns are still a little strange... I mean they have the same recruitment cost, and very similar stats. If the axes have armor piercing that would make sense; otherwise I'm not sure what the major difference is. The swords are higher tech and upkeep... is that all for an extra 3 defense skill? ~:confused:

@watchman: yeah, I had some pretty severe cash problems for a while last game. I found that if you field say... a stack worth of axes rather than swords, you save enough to train an extra unit. Not to mention the fact that you don't need to upgrade barracks at each city... saves a few thousand denarii until you can get things back under control. Once I had income again I switched to mass producing sword heerbann.



Oh, and I hope you never have to face the Sassanids as the Franks. The Sassanids expanded out of control in my last game, and I suddenly saw this odd light blue stack of troops... and over 3/4 of it was heavy calvary. O.o

I got slaughtered in my first fight, but I managed to win the second by careful use of the shieldwall formation. All I can say is that cataphracts and clibinarii put up a heck of a fight.

Huh. In my game the Axes and Swords seemed to come out from the same level of barracks - the next one was already Franciscas, wasn't it ? And at least according to my export_descr_unit file the axes don't have AP, either.

Aside from the minor difference in upkeep costs (20 denarii base), the only difference I can see is that the Axes get a bonus exp point from the highest-level barracks and the Swords don't...

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I think I'll mod the axechaps to have AP instead of getting rid of them. :yes:
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Originally Posted by Watchman

Huh. In my game the Axes and Swords seemed to come out from the same level of barracks - the next one was already Franciscas, wasn't it ? And at least according to my export_descr_unit file the axes don't have AP, either.

Aside from the minor difference in upkeep costs (20 denarii base), the only difference I can see is that the Axes get a bonus exp point from the highest-level barracks and the Swords don't...

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Really? Then there's even less of a difference than I thought...

Do you know if the weapon type plays any significant role?

I doubt it. Far as I know it only matters to some *very* specific bonuses from buildings, and I've wondered a bit if it might have some effect on the "wound recovery rate" of casualties.

Anyway, it seems that the game conceptualization requires AP infantry weapons to be either maces (à la Sughdians) or two-handed "mass" weapons like the big axes of the Chosen Axemen or the big clubs of the Hounds of Chulainn - those assorted Germanic berserkers with their big two-handed swords don't have it, for example. Beats me if that's particularly logical, but I assume the designers had some underlying logic for it.

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Originally Posted by Mouzafphaerre

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I think I'll mod the axechaps to have AP instead of getting rid of them. :yes:
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Done. They have a reason to exist now.
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Well, I have read before that with some armours, more damage is done to the wearer with a hard strike with a large object rather than attempting to pierce it with swords and such. Something about the force of the blow being transferred through to shatter the bones and organs of the victim. Perhaps this is their logic.

That's how maces and similar brute-force blunt-instrument weapons work by. Although it's not just "some armours" - more or less all of them are suspectible to greater or lesser degree of impact trauma getting transferred through to the wearer even if the armour isn't actually penetrated as such.

Which is one reason everyone always wore some sort of thick padding under metal armour - it helps absorb the impact.

And as you might imagine a blow strong enough to cause severe damage through honest-to-god solid plate isn't going to much even notice something like mail... but then again those "mass" weapons (axes included) also had a habit of pulverizing shields on solid hits.

Hi, all of you!

Did anyone try to play the franki campain on H/H? I have tried it a few times but it seems to be very challenging.

The problem is the following: You have less income at the beginning and thus can't build a army for an invasion. From the very start, my income is negative. So this first thing i did was to take the rebel town in the North-East. This balanced my financial situation.

But in the following turns it alway becomes negative again. I allway get lots of heirs (around 10) and I can't pay for their upkeep even if I disband all other units.

Well I now managed to conquer cologne and Trier and have kept my capital but lost the rebel town to the saxons. Again my situtiation is critical. Each turn one of my cities is sieged either by the saxons or the WRE. The WRE send great armies against me but as long as my cities are sieged I can't build units my self. I even can't replace my losses.

The WRE just seems to be too powerful with so much ressources to be beaten by my small germanic tribe. For every man I kill they send 3 others.

The other barbarian tribes aren't very helpful too. They are all stuck in South-East Europe and no Threat for WRE.


So did anyone of you play the franks campain at h/h and give me a few hints?

Have you made trade agreements with any other factions? The Franks don't have the best economy at the start, but if you take some cities with ports and have trade agreements you can usually sustain yourself quite well. Even the WRE will trade with you... if you aren't at war.

I'd suggest trying for both Campus Frissi and Campus Chatti, which should both be rebel. You could also try to knock out some competition early on by attacking the Saxons or the Alemanni, both have just one province.

Worst case scenario, if nothing works you can just form a hoard and migrate somewhere better. Sack a few Roman cities and you'll have plenty of money when you settle in a new location.

I beat the Franks on VH/VH without many problems by going straight for the large WRE city west of your starting city. It may be a tough fight, but it can easily be accomplished if you do it with care and keep reinforcing your beseiging army from your capital. During my campaign I allied with all the barbarian factions and expanded almost exclusively at the expense of the WRE until very late in the game.

I started another game and this went much better. I sacked campus chatti (Berlin???). Since I experienced the WRE to atack after only a few turns I posted nearly the whole army from my capital (Frankurt) at the Rhine-bridge. By that I could delay the WRE's attack a few turns. The next years were a constant struggle against the mighty army of the WRE. I could not hold the bridge but finally managed to crush them.
This time they didn't get any reinforcements. Thus, I could conquer Trier and Köln quickly one after another. By now I also sacked campus frisi (Amsterdam?). The saxons have a huge army in the north so they will be the next to deal with. The WRE still atacks me but their amies can easily defeated at the moment.

By these experiences I can give some major hints:

1. Let some of your family members die! This might sound curious as they are your most powerful units. But their upkeep is too expensive at the beginning and you get too much of them. This realy improves your financial situation.

2. Expand to the west ASAP. Don't let the WRE become strong again. You will need at least 3 cities to have enough ressources.

3. The saxons are your enemy. Allthough the WRE is you primary goal you can't coexist with them. Keep them small but don't waste your ressources on them as long as the WRE is still strong.

4. Use the rhine bridge to meet the WRE armies. To beat them, you will need swordsmen as your spearmen are chanceless against their stronger units.

5. Don't go to the east. You will just enage in battles you can avoid. I allied with Allemanni, Burgundi and long-beards.

It's pretty key to avoid fights with factions that can horde too---this means allying with the Burgundians, if at all possible, while the Saxons and the Alemanni are safe to go after. Hitting the Alemanni before they can build too many berserkers is a good idea. I initially allied with the WRE so I could fight and eliminate the Saxons and the Alemanni, and then the treacherous Romans backstabbed me so I could have at them with a clear conscience.

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Originally Posted by paul.muad.dib

I started another game and this went much better. I sacked campus chatti (Berlin???). Since I experienced the WRE to atack after only a few turns I posted nearly the whole army from my capital (Frankurt) at the Rhine-bridge. By that I could delay the WRE's attack a few turns. The next years were a constant struggle against the mighty army of the WRE. I could not hold the bridge but finally managed to crush them.
This time they didn't get any reinforcements. Thus, I could conquer Trier and Köln quickly one after another. By now I also sacked campus frisi (Amsterdam?). The saxons have a huge army in the north so they will be the next to deal with. The WRE still atacks me but their amies can easily defeated at the moment.

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Glad it's going much better for you. ^^

Good news for you... the Saxons have a very nice temple you might want to keep, +3 for missile weapons. And with the territory you have, the Saxon capital is easy to defend.

Now that you fought off the inital attack by the WRE, you should be fine. If they have a civil war you're in a good position to exploit it. Since you said you'll be heading exclusively west, you may want to send one of those extra generals along your eastern border to build watchtowers.

I think the easiest thing is to go horde first turn, then split up the horde in three parts, laying siege on the two closest roman cities with two of them, and siege on the saxon capital with the third one. Then I assaulted the cities and settled. I converted all the cities to Christianity, and lost two of them because of it, but I could deal with the incoming Roman counter-attacks and retake the lost roman city soon enough. Retaking the saxon city was more difficult. After getting back the lost roman city, I retook my starting city. After that, it was pretty easy. Training mostly cavalry and using the family members and archers a lot made it easy to expand in all directions. As soon as I could, I trained paladins, and paladins + armor + foot archer support and perhaps a few levy spearmen can be quite powerful. Those units sufficed until I had conquered most of modern France and the Italian peninsula. I actually found levy spearmen to be the best infantry available for forming a line in the early stages, but relied more on cavalry and archers in most battles, as the lowest quality infantry was of quite low quality IMO. Not until fransisca heerbann becomes available is there any idea to train more infantry IMO.

If acting quickly enough, the province goal will be completed before the hordes come. If not, I recommend having expanded east in order to be able to hire some vandal foot archer mercenaries, which are good for defending key cities vs the hordes. As the franks IMO lack good infantry before the francisca heerbann, I'd recommend fighting hordes using city defense and sallies rather than fighting them on open ground.

I do not agree. There is no need to horde as Frank. If you katank you can easily take most of Gaul plus Augusta Vindelicorum and all of Italy before the first hords appear. That is quite easy. I never changed to Christianity, only if the town was already Christian (like some towns in Italy).

Yeah, I never bothered converting towns; I just seized the Christian ones in Italy to build paladins and priests. Everything that was pagan was 100% pagan so I didn't see any point to trying to convert (and I never had any Christian family members anyway).

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I've never yet come up to any christian towns in Italy or Gaul. :end: All those stupid Mithra temples. I raze them as soon as I retrain my conquering units to get the bonus, because culture penalty is not something you want to live with. I even destroy some level 2 buildings unless I'm in a position to replace them with my level 3 ones.
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Hm, in my game both Rome and Ravenna were Christian.

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Originally Posted by gardibolt

Hm, in my game both Rome and Ravenna were Christian.

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Rome was the only Christian city I took in my game, I never took Ravenna. But yeah, I think most of the WRE is pagan except for a handful of Italian cities. (maybe Tarrentum?)

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FKA Ravenna was pagan. ~D I didn't touch Rome. (I think I'm going to sack her. :viking:)
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I don't remember exactly ANY Christian city in the WRE, because I like more the eastern fractions. But it is definitely true that Rome and Tarentum start as christian towns.
If you start a WRE campain just to have a look for that you will see any details. However: In all cities of both Roman Empires you will find some basic Christianity inside theire population. The starting mix of religiones is one of the reasons for their troubles early on.
I thougt it should be told, even when not new.

I'm about to start a Frankish campaign. My plan is to Horde immediatly and get away from all those Germanic tribes, which in turn later in the game usually get the hordes.

So, I'm going to take my Horde and capture the Iberian peninsula, from there I'll push back upwards towards the English channel, taking all of modern France. I'll let you know how I get on.

Ok, early campaign (as I’m only in the very early stages so far).

You need income so need land. There are 5 rebel regions around you so consolidate what troops you have and I recommend striking North into Tribus Chattii. You need to get there before the Saxons start moving South.

Use you’re diplomat and spy. The diplomat, I sent across to the WRE and started negotiating ANYTHING that generates income – they asked me to attack the Allemani, which I accepted once the price became too high to ignore! I also sold Trade Rights for a large lump sum which I immediately spent on queuing up troops and buildings in my Capital.

I am basically sending the small army I started with on a round route to capture the Rebel provinces but have missed out on Tribus Frisii (the WRE repelled the Saxons and took it) so have sent them East. However, the WRE broke another money making deal (Military Access) with me so made themselves targets.

With an army recruited with WRE money I have captured Augusta Treverorum, I was going to just strip it for cash but after slaughtering the population, the happiness is high and its making money per turn…..so I’m going to keep it as a step towards my key goals and it helps to defend my Capital by blocking the bridge. I used my spy to open the gates for me so managed to take the town with only two units of Hunters. I had a full army but decided to not use them once my spy told me who was in the settlement.

I have trained two further diplomats and sent one North and the other East, all to get Trade agreements with whoever they encounter. The upside with taking a Huge city like Augusta Treverorum is that not only is it making money, so boosting my economy but it has a large population (even after the extermination) – something the barbarian factions lack. I now plan to constantly recruit Peasant units form here and feed them into Vicus Franki, which is my main recruitment base at the moment.

This way I can off set the drop in population caused by recruiting warrior units AND increase the population in my main city so I can rapidly get to the higher level buildings.

I did attack the Allemani as the WRE paid me too. I crushed their two armies and brokered a peace (more money to me) so have withdrawn from their lands.

With all this income from diplomatic deals I’ve managed to boost my Capital but with my agreements with the WRE now in tatters it remains to be seen if I’ve stabilised my economy – I’m only approx 10 turns in, so this is very early game.

So far I have: Tribus Franki, Tribus Chattii, Tribus Marcomanni and Germania Superior. I think the WRE may now pose a problem. I am likely to keep any taken cities with their own main religion and if it differs from my main religion I won’t keep a governor in it so as to try and reduce the penalties.

I’m still early in the campaign but have effectively won already. This is mainly due to capturing two key regions:

Tribus Marcomanni & Tribus Quaddi

Both these start out, as Rebel held areas and although I was slow in getting them and hence had to combat the WRE in Quaddi that isn’t much of an issue as you will have to eventually be at war with them to complete your allotted tasks anyway.

These two regions have become large cash generators because I have combined them with diplomatic agreements with the other barbarian tribes in Europe. Because of their location they seem to attract the large amount of trade from the other tribes they are surrounded by.

Obviously, they also are targets and I’ve had minor problems but nothing serious so far. The only major disadvantage to them is also their advantage, location, as it leads them open to any Hordes coming from the East (although most tend to head South into Roman lands initially in my experiences).

One of the difficulties playing the Franks (this may also apply to other Pagan factions) is the number of family members that you have. I’ve found that I’ve had so many that I’ve fielded an army where its only Cavalry IS family members! (4 in one partial stack)

So, I’m lucky that I started off immediately on the Diplomatic course. Now I have trade and better treaties with virtually all the barbarian factions surrounding the Franks. Being centrally placed is ideal if you want to go down the Diplomatic route and your lucky in that the only people you have to wage war on is the WRE.

I didn’t realise that you could ally with a Horde…..until the Goths accepted a proposal of an Alliance, I was confused that the “Trade Agreement” option wasn’t displayed until I noticed they were actually a Horde passing my diplomat! Once they’d settled though it was easy to set up trade with them (as my diplomat had shadowed the horde).

The WRE are not overtly aggressive so have not expanded or even attempted to interrupt my gradual expansion West, although they have a large presence in the regions South of the river (Raetia, Noricum & Pannonia)

I like the way you play the Franks, as it is totally different to the way I got used. Sounds interesting enought to make a trial.. later :)
Keep up to inform us about your progress.

Progress report:

Its approx 393AD. With the Saxons destroyed I’ve been using their enhanced buildings to produce line troops with high weapon upgrades and as of last night I just completed one stack of such troops. These will be shipped down to Vicus Franki to be retrained and receive the +3/+4 experience upgrades from the temples.

This will give Gold weapon, Silver armour and 1 Silver chevron experience Archers and the same with Levy Spearmen for example. Ouch!

Fly’s in my ointment:

War with the Burgundii and Lombardi’s as both went and broke our agreements by attacking Tribus Marcomanni. (Greedy, I call it) I have a near full stack in the region I use against rebels and as a deterrent to the WRE & ERE. I used it to break both sieges.

I felt obliged to then march on into Tribus Burgundii to spank the petulant Burgundii’s

The Burgundii now reside in Locus Barbaricum, I have left the Lombardi in Tribus Vandali – with only one substantial army in the region this needs to be done carefully and I need to ensure a gaggle of diplomats are in the region in case I encounter any Hordes. I won’t march this small army further East except to raid the Lombardi IF they continue to attack me.

…however, the “Ozzy-Goths” are my allies and the Vandals have passed me by. That does leave the Sarmatian’s though….I know they’re about but hope they move South (not sure I could handle their heavy cavalry). My Eastern settlements are moving to build Stone walls and archer/spearmen combos for defence.

The Alemanni dropped their long alliance with me when war broke out with the Burgundians – talk about backing a loosing horse!

I have been preparing for my march on the three key regions I need – I think they’re Lugdinensis, Aquitania & Narbonensis – so have made two full stacks for this purpose (with the stack in progress from Tribus Saxones). One stack for each region needed.

So, once the Alemanni dropped their alliance with me I marched one of them South, destroyed the Alemanni faction on the way then marched through Raetia, Alpes Maritimae Et Cottinae and onto Narbonensis.

When it hit Alpes Maritimae Et Cottinae it encountered the Vandal Horde. The horde attacked but I withdrew towards my target. I had a diplomat in the area (spying out Arles), so I moved him in to ensure good will between us. So, once my army besieged Arles in the next two turns, the Vandal Horde just moved on past my army. Aren’t they nice! They’ve even moved into Goth lands so we’ll see what happens there, if the Vandals can deplete the Goths before I invade all the better………

Another blue-bottle in my cream pie:

The Celts. Although the WRE are happily in control of England the Celts have decided to land forces in Belgica – Twice! I’ve used the army I constructed there (as described above, one of them I’d planed to take my last regions) to repel both invasions with ease. They have nowhere to go so both armies have been utterly destroyed! Twits.

You will note that I have been single-minded and did not take the cities Augusta Vindelicorum or Massilia. This allows for Hordes to play with the WRE rather than me.

Anyway. Things progress, I have several treaties to renegotiate and an Ally in the Goths to betray – they hold both my remaining target regions.

I require Seven regions (including the target ones) to Win and I think I’ll just take those in the Iberian Peninsula as my main armies will be in that area after taking my key regions.

BTW – my original Faction leader died last night. He was 80+ but it means I’ve completed three quarters of the allotted game with the SAME faction leader. I had hoped he’d cling to life to see the end as it’s less than 10 years away (20 turns I’d estimate).

I have not had to cull any family members in this game despite the large number that STILL keep “coming of age”. They make handy cavalry units and as I’m busy raising armies to make my final push they come in handy to lead these new armies AND lead patrol armies against any nosy neighbours on my Eastern borders.

Despite the wars with the Barbarian tribes my income is still between 2-5k profit per month (dependant on Rebel activity) and I’ve found that Tribus Burgundii makes more than 1k per turn!! So that was a nice capture.

Money is so good that I only need one stack of eight cavalry units for anti-rebel duties. I normally just send out a diplomat from one of my settlements to pay them off these days. It’s cheaper than the hit in trade it takes whilst I move an army to fight them.

I picked the franks as my first choice for a BI campaign. I allied with the WRE to hold them off while i took the saxon and alemanni settlements. I don't know what temple the saxons had but now I train gold-sword archers. The WRE turned on me as well as the lombards and burgundii. I hit the WRE with assasins and took out most of their family members before i attacked them. I've already taken 8 of their settlements.

Playing with the Frank's is a pleasnt expirience! Ona thing that bothers me very much is that barbarian generals have a bad marks,ability's! I was trying to change it but it didn't work out! Because they all have bad habits and they are bloody! You are all familiar with the word "BLOODYHANDED"! And when you at least are sucessfull with upgradeing their attributes, they loose them too soon! I really don't know what to do! I really liked to play with Romans because they generals were outstanding! I am only going to say one thing! academy's! But I can't wait to install some of the patches to repair some bug's in the game,and I am also looking forward to play with MTW 2! I only hope that they will have sense to make some of the little less fractions,good generals! But we will see!

I just purchased BI yesterday. I'm a bit behind the times. My first campaign is with the Franks. Since this is Barbarian Invasion, I felt it appropriate to start out as a Barbarian horde.

I retrained all my troops since the capital has a blacksmith. I also trained a second spy. I allied with the Allemani. Second turn I became a Horde. I went straight to Avaricum which was defended by one general and some limitates (spelling). I took that easily. Now Avaricum is mine.

I have another army up north which is going to sack the towns in northern Gaul just for some extra coin. Then I'm going to take the other two towns required for victory (I forgot their names already, but I'm sure you all know the two down in southern France I'm talking about.

AFter that is achieved I'll have a major river as my eastern border and the Pyrennes to the west. I'll put some units on the bridges and passes for defense and begin development.

When I'm happy with the progress of my development (and if I'm still alive) I'll beef up the defenses at the Pyrennes and begin my conquest of Northern Italy and Germany.

This is my plan anyway. Whether it goes this way or not remains to be seen.


And I'm outta here like last year.

My plan is experiencing "suck" factor 10 right now. I read in here someone said if you horde and go west you'll be way ahead of the conventional hordes.

Well, maybe my case is the exception, but no sooner did I take Avaricum Burgidala and Arles than the Vandal Horde appeared. They took Avaricum, but lost a crud load of folks doing so, so I took it back easily.

But then the Roxolani arrived and took Burgidala from me. I allied with the Vandals. The Vandals took Burgidala from the Roxolani. The Roxolani horded up and are right now besieging Arles.

Prior to taking Arles, the Roxolani defeated my Faction Leader's full stacked army. He whipped up on me easily with pretty much nothing but horse archers and a few chosen swordsmen units. THe horse archers were too much for me. I ony had 3 units of hunters and one of those were down to 61 from a previous engagement.

So after they whipped me, they besieged Arles where my Faction leader retreated to along with his heir. I have one field army which is only about 70% manned.

No way will I save Arles. Arles is doomed.:skull: But I'm also generating almost no money.

I'm getting my butt kicked. :dizzy2: It's a nightmare folks.

I get so mad reading this thread because I read a lot of you have conquered all of Gaul and are cruising along. I don't suck this bad. I never had problems like this in regular RTW or RTR. But here I am sucking. This sucks. :wall:

I need hunters to counter the Horse Archers.

But again, money is tight.

I see myself rehording and trying to conquer Spain.

But we'll see.



I love this game so far. It's a real challenge for me. So far anyway.

When hording, you're usually better off not settling back down again for quite a while. Consider this plan: After retraining, horde, devastate all Gaul and much of Spain, not occupying, but making a ton of money. This land is no longer attractive to other hordes, since everything is in ruins, and they're likely to turn attention elsewhere. You send your wealthy horde into Italy, and finally settle down in the big, wealthy cities there. Then go back with armies and occupy Gaul and Spain, FTW.

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Originally Posted by gardibolt

When hording, you're usually better off not settling back down again for quite a while. Consider this plan: After retraining, horde, devastate all Gaul and much of Spain, not occupying, but making a ton of money. This land is no longer attractive to other hordes, since everything is in ruins, and they're likely to turn attention elsewhere. You send your wealthy horde into Italy, and finally settle down in the big, wealthy cities there. Then go back with armies and occupy Gaul and Spain, FTW.

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That's a good idea. And actually I've been kind of thinking about that. Right now I own Massilia and Avaricum. I've got my one field army at the bridge east of Massilia. And every other turn they're attacked by either the Goths (not horded) or the Roxolani (who is horded right now).

The Roxolani are really making me mad. They've horded and are just hanging out around Gaul. They're not doing anything. THey don't attack cities or anything. THey just send an army to attack me every turn. Their armies must be regenerating. They keep coming back.

I make just enough money to retrain my troops and put them back at that bridge.

Avaricum is completely undefended (not counting 6 peasant units in the city). But nowone is attacking it right now. Kind of weird to me.

I'm going to stick it out and see if I catch a break. The Roxolani and Goths have to go to war with each other eventually. I might be able to take back Arles if that happens. Then I'll see where I can go from there.

I lost. STarted over and sacked pretty much all of Gaul. I built up over a 100,000 denarii and have settled down in Spain where I'm kicking butt on some Western Roman Empire Rebels.

It's looking more promising so far.

I just started BI myself this past week, and unfortunately will have to wait until after my graphic card gets back from warranty service to continue. So, I'm just JONESIN' reading alls of these posts! But I digress...

Anyway, I left off during my second attempt at a Frankish empire. I horded right off the bat and plowed through Gaul, finally settling in at the middle one of the three conditional provinces. This may have been a mistake, but I'm going try to salvage the game anyway.

My problem is that I'm losing money right and left. I hold two adjacent provinces right now. I have a port. The saxons are expanding southward. WRE are coming in from Spain and from Arles. So, I'm thinking of hording again. But, before I do that, are there some ways to salvage a bleeding economy that might allow me to stay on the normal conquest track? I'm losing about 400-600 denarii per turn, and most of it seems to be bleeding out of the capital.

So what econonomic things can I do to correct this? I had a better time managing the economy in RTW.

it is so hard for me to turn them into Cristains. They keep revolting and there doesn't seem to be a good time to change it from paganism

of the five barbarian factions in that region (alemanni, Franks, Lombardii, burgundii, saxons) - only the Franks can build those level 3 roads (highways?)... and later in the game they have access to Onagers (some other barbarian factions do too, but not all)

ya, the franks are one of my favourite campaigns ever, great units, highways, onagers, they are just such a fun campaign to play.

my most recent frank campaign, the tribe horded on turn 1 and has now migrated to asia minor. forget all about those objectives, i think the steppes will look nicer with decent roads! east romans don't seem to handle flying columns of heavy lancers so well....
so far Sinone is the capital, and Caesarea secured. the challange is to hurt the ERE economy so badly they can't keep building new armies, and are forced into a ceasefire.
the frank combination of civilized and barbaric is fun to play, i mean to find out how to mod the game to do something similar with the lombards or the sarmatians.

I never went that far east with the Franks....have you run into any Sassanids yet? They always beat the crap out of me with the ERE, but the Franks might be able to deal with them more effectively.

A Frank campaign here:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=77526

Didnt do much. Defended the starting region against all comers.

Personally, on my first turn as Franks I train my second spy in Vicus Franki as well as retrain my meagre garrison.
On the second turn I pack up and head for Rome, sacking everything along my path. Settling in Italy gives me rich, well developed cities that are acquired with absolutely minimal losses: WRE tends to have plenty of troops on the frontier, but its italian provinces are sparcely garrisoned.
With ROme as my capital, I Christianize the rest of Italy, make a whole bunch of paladins and, for the lack of a better word, kick everyone's ass.

I'm currently in 385 AD in my Franks campaign. I've taken all of Gaul, some lands in Central Europe as well as Ravenna and Rome. I'm in the process of taking Sardinia and the Iberian peninsula.

I started off by taking the rebel settlements north of my capital, as well as crush the Saxons early on. The fact that they don't form a horde was a nice bonus. Then, the WRE offered me an alliance in exchange for help against the Alemanni. Seeing as they had taken 2 WRE cities I gladly obliged, adding some nice income to the realm.

After taking the Alemanni down, I noticed a full WRE stack near my capital, as well as a captured WRE spy. I preferred not to wait for them to attack first, so I snuck an army of Levies and Axe/Sword Heerbanns around south to take Augusta Treverorum. Taking that city gave me access to the dreaded Francisca Heerbann units.

Another problem arose in the form a Vandal hordes, who seemed keen on taking the lands of the Lombardi. I forged an alliance with the Vandals, and managed to snag a Lombardi town in the process. But, the Lombardi formed a horde, and laid siege to my capital which was left sorely underdefended by a peasant army and some levies. Luckily I had managed to train some Francisca Heerbann, as well as recruit two units of fearsome Graal Knights. My faction leader and heir marched west, leading a poweful army. After some heated battled, the Lombardi were driven away, and shortly afterwards they drove the Goths away.

My attention shifted to the Romans again. The western barbarians and hordes were duking it out amongst themselves. I kept a stack near my border just in case, though, while I continued to drive back the WRE armies. In less than 10 years, I took most of their settlements, but instead of actively occupying all of them, I exterminated the big ones and kept the smaller cities to myself. Many WRE cities rebelled, which turned out to be a mistake, as the WRE rebels proved unwilling to live in peace. Fortunatly I had gained massive amounts of cash, enough to train scores of Francisca Heerbanns and capture the rebellious cities.

The backbone of the WRE was broken. Their empire was divided, and rebellious Romans expanded their lands in the Italian peninsula... so I went after them as well. In a few bloody dieges I took Mediolanium, Ravenna and Rome... and gained the ability to train Paladins and Paladin Bodyguards with silver equipment.

Soon, the WRE will be crushed under my bootheel. The Franks will swarm Iberia and Italy, Sicilia and Africa, and then it's back to the west to crush the Huns and Vandals!

I'd like to mention that Franks have really crummy archers. Hunters are not worth training except as wall garrisons (to burn rams and towers), and perhaps in the unlikely event that you have to face a Hun/Vandal horde in a field battle.
That's about it. Other than those two cases, Hunters are a waste of a unit slot, since their range is short and their arrows can barely scratch even the lowly WRE Foederatii. Commies and Plumsare pretty much imune to Hunter arrows. Levy Spears and Francisca Heerbann will provide Franks with more than enough missile power while shield wall does a very good job of protecting their spearmen from enemy arrows.

The Franks is one of the easiest faction in BI. The only barbarian faction with the ability to form horde, by the end of the campaign i had all of Gaul, Iberia, Britania plus some additional province in Germania. Rome itself was conquered by the Vandals. thought i'd never see that.

When I played the Franks, I killed the Saxons, then took out Lombardi and Burgundii early into their pathetic quibbling. I then took out Alemanni but purposely turned into a horde by the WRE. I then struck hard at home and later shattered WRE all together by taking the Italian Peninsula, Gaul, Spain, Sardinia, and Sicily. I remained to rebuild but I have 2 enemies who are frequently trying to subdue me. Sarmatians who Im beating into my other enemy; Vandals.

The Franks have an excellent set of troops, very balanced and powerful.

I play a mod that allows the Saxons, Celts, and Alemanni to horde. Any suggestions as to handling them?

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Good overview D3tr. However, you left out a major unit... and the single greatest reason for ANY barbarian faction to convert to Christianity.

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And, what other barbarian faction can convert to Christianity? Because I tried one other than the Franks, after destroying the pagan shrine I couldn't build a church.

I think the Alemanis are allowed to convert to Christianity. Although this prevent the trainning of the powerful Lambord Berserkers. The Saxon are a pure pagan faction. Celts, Burgundi and Lombardi are non-playable, could be played by changing the files. While Goths and Vandals are counted as Steppes. Although they should be Barbarian factions themselves.

I started a campaign with the Franks before I'd played any total war...this was like 2 years ago, I forget exactly what happened, but I allied with the WRE and took the rebel cities around me, then gradually took the allemanni and the saxons...then I waited around for a little bit and the WRE cities next to me were as empty as tombs, so I quickly took Frisii, Trevorum, Vindelicorum.

So I started a new one today, remembered how easy it was to beat the Romans, and so I attacked the Saxons and Alemanni quickly. got two rebel cities (bribed one), then attacked the romans. only this time they had a bunch of stacks hidden in the fog of war. lesson....toggle fow off ;p

lol, no, just wait for the romans to be pre-occupied, I think I attacked them a little to early (368). Just wait until they're attacked on all fronts.

Hi

I started a Franks campaign recently and it's fun. I took the army my faction heir had to attack the rebel town to the east (marcomanni) - the army is easily enough to take the town and it gave me income without building more units. I then moved north from there, taking chatii - unfortunately the saxons beat me to frisii. In the meanwhile I built up an army in my capital and when the first son came of age I took him to lead it against the Alemannii and destroyed that faction by laying siege to their town and keeping their faction heir (he had the field army) busy until they tried to sally, but couldn't break my siege.

In the meantime I allied with the burgunds, lombards, saxons and the WRE - none of them has turned their backs on me yet... I know the saxons will eventually have to die, but as for now they are busy, trying to invade britannia (I use toggle_fow from time to time to keep an eye on the world situation, which is great fun, watching the sassanids beat up the ERE and stuff like that ^^).

Then the Vandals arrived and started going after the WRE towns... they sacked the town in Pannonia (cant think of the name right now) and carnuntum. I took Pannonia but then they turned around, because they seemed to be discouraged by the larger piles the WRE sent through Raetia and I decided they were too big of a threat and attacked with my faction heir. Due to using him in almost every battle since the start (also for the occasional rebel slapping which I tend to do with the general alone most of the time (if the rebels dont feature nasty spear units in which case I usually take an archer unit with me) he had already night fighter, which made it a little easier. The vandals only had one general with 4 stars. I attacked him first of course and since I had a decent army by that time I managed to kill him and in the following turns reduced the vandal horde to some family members that tried to stay alive. all that fighting took place in pannonia... I actually wanted to destroy them but then their faction leader somehow slipped into italy and thus the fow and was never to be seen until now...

I sent my army to retrain (since the pannonia town wasnt upgraded enough I had to send them all the way back to vicus frankii) and then returned to noricum to capture the rebel carnuntum (the vandals sacked it, remember) - I thought: "Fine, in addition to my poor towns in the north this gives me a nice roman addition without ever loosing my alliance with the WRE" - well... the turn I laid siege on carnuntum the huns arrived... and the goths arrived... and the sarmatians arrived - idk... i think the huns horded the sarmatians and the vandals had already horded the goths before they went into my sight, but the goths tried to go a little ERE first... well but they came... I had allied the sarmatians while they were still stationary (they asked for it, sending a diplomat - they offered trade rights, map info and alliance - i asked for some money do agree and got it!) - well it seemes they didnt like me for that bargain and somehow they declared war, though they never attacked me (the little diplomacy thing came, telling me they were at war with me, but nothing happened - they went into the east again - just threatening me for my rudeness in the beginning I guess ;) ) - well the huns and goths weren't so nice... after they fought among themselves for the right to pillage my lands (they engaged in a multi stack fight in southern pannonia - the goths lost and buggered off into the south.... probably too beaten up to bother the ERE... we'll see) the huns marched north, ready to be met by my field army that had abandoned the siege of carnuntum... there I am right now - my faction heir full of scars, command stars and influence, sporting an Ego that would shame Elvis with a nice stack of troops facing these bad ass horseman... i fear for him... they have more than one general with night fighter it seems - after saving i tried to attack, but wherever I did, when I turned night on there were still enough reinforcements to outnumber me quite clearly... and I hate these nasty horse archers, especially when I have an infantry strong army... the problem is, the huns not only have them but also pretty nice close combat cavalry that could rip my battle line apart if I'm not careful... my tactic is to keep the battle line in place (using cavalry (my general, raiders... thats all I have for now) as support where the enemy concentrates) to keep my archers alive that could be my only hope to kill off the enemy horse archers - furtunately I have a good amount of these hunters in my army

So, some questions:

1. will shield wall reduce or add to the chance my battle line resists the cavalry charge? I heard that there are cases where it does more harm than good...
2. fire or plain arrows? fire should make those horses run faster, right?
3. I agree the spearmen do their job, but will they have any staying power against huns chosen warriors? (heavy cavalry) or will they simply be crushed, making my archers vulnerable? (I tend to turn skirmish off, since I prefer my archers doing their job instead of running around follishly... if they are in danger I can micro them away myself)

any experiences, someone?

oh yes I also wanted to ask, how I could convert the franks to christianity but since there were a lot of suggestions in this thread already I'll try those out :)

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Originally Posted by Alerion

1. will shield wall reduce or add to the chance my battle line resists the cavalry charge? I heard that there are cases where it does more harm than good...
2. fire or plain arrows? fire should make those horses run faster, right?
3. I agree the spearmen do their job, but will they have any staying power against huns chosen warriors? (heavy cavalry) or will they simply be crushed, making my archers vulnerable? (I tend to turn skirmish off, since I prefer my archers doing their job instead of running around follishly... if they are in danger I can micro them away myself)

any experiences, someone?

oh yes I also wanted to ask, how I could convert the franks to christianity but since there were a lot of suggestions in this thread already I'll try those out :)

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1. Shieldwall in theory should have better effect resisting cavalry charge than normal formation, but as you said the result tend to be different sometimes. Shieldwall is essiantially a defensive formation, try them in custom battles and see for yourself if they're reliable or not.

2. Fire are less accurate, but more deadly if hit. I normally stick to plain arrors except when there are elephants around.

3. Some spearmen are weaker than others, from memory I think the Franks gets a relatively poor selection of spears. Their archers are quite useless as well. Their main strengh is their powerful swordsmen and Axemen.

You can convert the Franks to christianity by destroying the local Pagan shrine, then you would be given the option of building a Christian chapel on top of it's ruins.

Faction Overview: Franks
A Roslagii Boredom project. This faction has obviously been discussed in detail already, but since I'm doing this for fun I'll write this anyway.

General Overview
The Franks start the game with their own little "Tribus" in germania, crammed together with the Chattii, Lombardi, Allemanni, and the others. The Franks, however, are not content fighting against their neighbours and raiding the romans. They dream of other things, of straight roads and mighty kings, of a realm that will last long and replace the romans as the major power in the west.

The Frankish Army
Franks fight on foot in close formation, and are known for their valor and durability. With the franks, your favorite battle scenario look like this: The enemy are forced to come to you. Your warriors are deployed in a shield wall on a hill. As the enemy charge up the slopes, a hail of javelins and throwing axes further weaken their momentum before battle is joined. After several failed attacks against your shield wall, you unleash your light cavalry on the flanks and paladins in the center, routing the enemy.

Infantry
The franks, like the saxons, train their Levy Spearmen to defend against other infantry rather than form a schiltrom against cavalry. While this makes them relatively steady and reliable fighters, it poses a significant disadvantage to the franks since they have no other spearmen. While durable, levy spearmen often need help from another unit to deal with cavalry. Axe and Sword Heerbanns are steady fighters that complement each other nicely. The sword heerbanns are good all-around fighters while the axe heerbanns are at their best fighting against other units of heavy infantry. In shield wall formation and with decent flank protection, these units are difficult to break. The Fransisca Heerbann is a great supporting unit with many uses, but always coming down to the throwing of those incredibly damaging axes. Compared to the rest of the frankish infantry, fransisca heerbann is an offensive unit that can use warcry before charging home.

Cavalry
Raiders are good for doing the things that only cavalry can do, and very little else. They are on the field to support your infantry, not play heroes. The Noble Warriors are your standard barbarian heavy cavalry - slow moving, headstrong, and deadly. They are best sent at the enemy to distract them when they try to regroup after yet another failed go at your shield wall. Paladins are a special case - tricky to unlock, but fully the equals of the scholae palatine on which they are based. I tend to use them as general troubleshooters so that my general can remain with the infantry. When only the second best will do - send the Paladins instead.

Missile
Hunters are decent archers, but not nearly the equals of lombard archers or the hunters of the saxons (who can often rely on the temples of Ull to equip them with top-notch bows and arrows.) Like the raiders, hunters are on the field to support your infantry. Ballistae and Onagers always come in handy.

Buildings/Technology
This is one of the major advantages of the Franks. Of all the barbarian, steppe, and hun factions only franks can build paved roads. They also have access to all five tiers of farming, and all three tiers of hermitages. The franks are a very efficcient, well fed, and organised faction who can still form a horde when need be. Their tech tree is otherwise the same as most other barbarians.

Diplomacy
Because the franks must control southern Gaul, they often have difficulties making alliances. Southern gaul tends to be the "thrash can" were all steppe hordes end up sooner or later. If you decide to take on your germanic neighbours early in the game the WRE are very interested in any alliance offers, as they will want to take the allemanni out rather than guard the entire border. If you go to war with the saxons or lombardi, and the burgundii have not yet horded, they are usually more than wlling to become your allies. The Allemanni tend to be weak and easily destroyed in AI hands, but if left to grow can pose a significant threat as their armies are more balanced than yours and frequently smart enough to exploit it. In the late game when you control several ports on both coasts, you may be forced to seek trade rights and alliances with such distant factions as the celts and berbers because you are at war with all your neighbours

Campaign Advice
This seems redundant considering the length of this thread. It might be worthwile to not horde early and let some other faction deal with the hordes in gaul before you head for your victory requirements. Because of the neghbouring regions bonus, it is sometimes better to christianize most of your empire all at once. Just make sure there is a lull in the warmaking and that you have decent armies in every city, since you will have to siege, retake and exterminate the populations before you can begin to consolidate christianity. This is the quickest and most bothersome way to christianize the franks, but when it's done it's done and you can focus your attention on traning paladins and other more important issues. Be sure to have a lot of spies out because if you suffer a major horde incursion in the middle of this process you're in a bad spot!

Nice overview, very good for a new member to do :bow:

In my Franks campaign I just horded on turn 2. Set my direction to Iberia and sacked any city along the way. Got my base at Carthego Nova and started to expand later, found the campaign rather difficult without hording.

Nice overview though. :yes:

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Originally Posted by Quintus.JC

In my Franks campaign I just horded on turn 2. Set my direction to Iberia and sacked any city along the way. Got my base at Carthego Nova and started to expand later, found the campaign rather difficult without hording.

Nice overview though. :yes:

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Thanks, I'm glad you liked it:beam:

Taking Iberia sounds like a very smart tactic considering the victory objectives (why didn't I think of that?) I'll definitly try that next time I play the franks. Did you have to chase the Vandals around or did they get bogged down somewhere else? Their hordes can be pretty nasty if they show up with the almighty "bad timing" on their side. In my first campaign I was laying siege to my own cities (hear the word of the Lord!) when the vandals showed up and claimed southern gaul before I could halt their advance. Then I had to spend many turns retaking my cities and drive the vandals into Iberia. At least the citizens were pretty darn christian by then (and a lot fewer...)

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Originally Posted by Roslagii Keel

Thanks, I'm glad you liked it:beam:

Taking Iberia sounds like a very smart tactic considering the victory objectives (why didn't I think of that?) I'll definitly try that next time I play the franks. Did you have to chase the Vandals around or did they get bogged down somewhere else? Their hordes can be pretty nasty if they show up with the almighty "bad timing" on their side. In my first campaign I was laying siege to my own cities (hear the word of the Lord!) when the vandals showed up and claimed southern gaul before I could halt their advance. Then I had to spend many turns retaking my cities and drive the vandals into Iberia. At least the citizens were pretty darn christian by then (and a lot fewer...)

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After taking Carthago Nova I started to expand rapidly around the Iberian penisular. After conquering the surrounding provences I decided to consolidate for a little while, building up the backward economic structure left by the Romans, convert all my settlements to Christianity and getting myself a couple stack of army. I pushed upwards into Francia, the Roman garrison was weak and the settlements fell pretty easily. It is then I noticed the massive hordes located around centre Europe; Visigoths, Vandals, Lombards. Vandals pushed themselves into Italy and are pratically eating the WRE alive, Visigoth is wandering aimlessly around Northern Italy, the Lombards occupied all the former Germania. I decided to avoid them and went north and captured Britain; where the Celts still hasn't managed to push the Romans out, both factions were swepped away by my army. Heavy infantry formed the bulk of my army, Swordsmen Heerbaan formed the backbone, Francisca and Axe Herrbaan formed shock infantry, Paladin made the cavalry, spearmen and missile were redundant and unessary, and weak. Lombards and Visigoth eventually pushed into France, forcing me to engage both. I held against the Visigoth while made the offensive against the Lombards to recover my home lands, after capturing Campus Franki the victory condition was met and campaign finished.

Nice. I agree that the frankish hunters could use a sympathy hug. Hey I just got an idea! What if I take Vicus Saxones and instead of razing the Sacred Grove/Sacred Circle of Ull located there turn that settlement into hunter training camp!! :brakelamp:

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Originally Posted by Roslagii Keel

Nice. I agree that the frankish hunters could use a sympathy hug. Hey I just got an idea! What if I take Vicus Saxones and instead of razing the Sacred Grove/Sacred Circle of Ull located there turn that settlement into hunter training camp!! :brakelamp:

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You can certainly do that, but I might the Franks best stick with what they're good at, suprem heavy infantry and cavalry. What's the point of trying and failing to shoot your opponents full of holes when you can just ran them over with your supreme heavy infantry?

Yeah, that's probably true. In TW games, it's easy to go overboard and micromanage yourself back into stone age. Perfectionism is not always to one's benefit. :juggle2:

Its about balancing the game, few factions in the game could have a perfect unit roster; Saxons are infantry supreme, but lacking in all other areas. Huns are Cavalry supreme, but doesn't fare as good in the infantry bit. With the exception of the two Roman faction and perhaps the Sassanids, all the other factions are either good at this or bad at the other.

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Originally Posted by Quintus.JC

Its about balancing the game, few factions in the game could have a perfect unit roster; Saxons are infantry supreme, but lacking in all other areas. Huns are Cavalry supreme, but doesn't fare as good in the infantry bit. With the exception of the two Roman faction and perhaps the Sassanids, all the other factions are either good at this or bad at the other.

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What about the Berbers? :beam:

Yeah, the Berbers are supreme all-around. They could take the Huns without breaking a sweat. :laugh4:

Read my Overview if you don't belive it! The Berbers are my favorite faction in BI, no competition. I'm pretty sure I could take any frank army 1:1 with the berbers... unless they're all paladins.

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Originally Posted by Roslagii Keel

Yeah, the Berbers are supreme all-around. They could take the Huns without breaking a sweat. :laugh4:

Read my Overview if you don't belive it! The Berbers are my favorite faction in BI, no competition. I'm pretty sure I could take any frank army 1:1 with the berbers... unless they're all paladins.

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Well what I enjoy about the Berbers is that there are 300 years ahead of everyone else. (They are Muslims already) I also enjoy watching my own troops getting slaughtered. The Berbers have a strange building roster though, with Militia Barracks been the highest. I doubt the Berbers would win though, the Berbers wear no armour.....they would get crushed in hand to hand.

But seriously it's because they speak like stereotype Arabs.

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Originally Posted by coalition

Well what I enjoy about the Berbers is that there are 300 years ahead of everyone else. (They are Muslims already) I also enjoy watching my own troops getting slaughtered. The Berbers have a strange building roster though, with Militia Barracks been the highest. I doubt the Berbers would win though, the Berbers wear no armour.....they would get crushed in hand to hand.

But seriously it's because they speak like stereotype Arabs.

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You force me to describe in detail how I would go about defeating a frankish army with the berbers.

First things first, the berbers really are christian! Actually I think only the berbers in Tingi were christian, the rest were still worshiping their desert-spirits and whatnots, but since they're not supposed to be playable CA didn't bother with that.

I also assume that the forces are of equal strength here, as they would be in a custom battle. First, I would deploy my force in two equally large groups: The first group is deployed in the back of my deployment zone, and consist of my general and all the infantry; 2/3 of which are axemen, 1/3 hillmen. The second group is deployed further afield, 1/2 moorish raiders and 1/2 desert cavalry.

As the battle starts, I approach the most cavalry-heavy flank of the enemy with my cavalry vanguard. As the arrows start to fall down on their ranks, the franks will be forced to send out their cavalry since a frankish hunter couldn't hit a desert horse archer even if he was stuck to a wall 20 metres away. I avoid combat and fan out, drawing the better part of the enemy cavalry away from the main body of their army, which I assume consists of heavy frankish infantry. Now i turn my cavalry regiments, including the HA, and charge the enemy cavalry from all directions. Even if there are nobles or paladins among them, outflanking, outnumbering and the surprising effectiveness of moorish raiders in prolonged melees WILL rout and kill the frankish cavalry.

Now I can safely return the cavalry to my infantry line and await the remaining franks. As you said berbers are a joke against franks but now:

1) I have the advantage on the flanks.

2) My axemen ignore the franks' heavy armor. So does the frankish axe heerbann but I have none to ignore!

3) By now the enemy units are a lot more tired than mine.

...but that's just against the computer. Against a human victory can never be certain.

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Originally Posted by Roslagii Keel

You force me to describe in detail how I would go about defeating a frankish army with the berbers.

First things first, the berbers really are christian! Actually I think only the berbers in Tingi were christian, the rest were still worshiping their desert-spirits and whatnots, but since they're not supposed to be playable CA didn't bother with that.

I also assume that the forces are of equal strength here, as they would be in a custom battle. First, I would deploy my force in two equally large groups: The first group is deployed in the back of my deployment zone, and consist of my general and all the infantry; 2/3 of which are axemen, 1/3 hillmen. The second group is deployed further afield, 1/2 moorish raiders and 1/2 desert cavalry.

As the battle starts, I approach the most cavalry-heavy flank of the enemy with my cavalry vanguard. As the arrows start to fall down on their ranks, the franks will be forced to send out their cavalry since a frankish hunter couldn't hit a desert horse archer even if he was stuck to a wall 20 metres away. I avoid combat and fan out, drawing the better part of the enemy cavalry away from the main body of their army, which I assume consists of heavy frankish infantry. Now i turn my cavalry regiments, including the HA, and charge the enemy cavalry from all directions. Even if there are nobles or paladins among them, outflanking, outnumbering and the surprising effectiveness of moorish raiders in prolonged melees WILL rout and kill the frankish cavalry.

Now I can safely return the cavalry to my infantry line and await the remaining franks. As you said berbers are a joke against franks but now:

1) I have the advantage on the flanks.

2) My axemen ignore the franks' heavy armor. So does the frankish axe heerbann but I have none to ignore!

3) By now the enemy units are a lot more tired than mine.

...but that's just against the computer. Against a human victory can never be certain.

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Overwhelming the A.I is one of the ways to achieve victory, providing your troops are above Militia level. Your stragety appears to be effective against armies made of Infantry (That's not to say that there is no cavarly). Berbers do have sucky cavarly too, I mean look at their General stats!
Look closely at the names of the Berber characters, you will find out that they have Muslim names.
Also in a city battle, your in big trouble seeing you cannot use the Cavarly charge advantage.

I see you are quite adamant in your conception of the Berbers as a "sucky" faction, so I will not labour further upon the subject. Regarding the fact that Berbers have muslim names, I think it would be quite difficult to find written sources mentioning authentic north african names from the 4th to 5th centuries AD. If the game was historically accurate, the berbers wouldn't be organized enough to constitute a faction. I think they are there to make north africa more challenging for "real" factions to conquer, not because they were an organized nation at the time (which they weren't.) Now I suggest we end this before the moderators find out we're discussing berbers in the franks thread ~;)

Well from what I did read (which isn't much, its like midnight and its all blurry, sorry if this offends anyone) most people seem to have either horded and moved out of Germanica, or tried to go north for the Saxons or south to the WRE. I did things slightly differently. First things first, build up an economy. I took the two rebel cities near me, then stopped to regroup. Then from my capital, I struck down at Alemanni, and wiped their armies out within the first turn. Pop goes Alemanni.

The next thing I tried to do was search for anything that wouldn't get me bogged down in an expensive war. I looked and found several things. Firstly, a WRE city gone rebel south of the river, two rebel cities in northern Germanica, and of course other German tribes. I was also inclined to build up forces around my most eastern cities and strike the Burgundi and the other tribe up north, considering there are no stacks in sight and a poorly defended garrison, easy pickings. This is how far I am so far, only a few cities, but my expansion has been fairly rapid considering my old turtle tactics. I never really gave BI a chance when I got it, but I'm really starting to like this game

A Frankish campaign can be the most boring ever if one hordes immediately and proceeds to Gaul. This is however the quickest route to victory as well. On the way one should take out teh Allemani and the Saxons and then settle in Avaricum or Samarobriva from which he can re-conquer all the cities he left behind including Vicus Frankii, not forgeting the ludicrus Londinium just a short ferry trip accross the channel.

The real enjoyment playing the Franks however (as with other factions that can horde) is to play with the iron man rule, not to horde unless one is really taken over in his last settlement by an enemy.

Then the Frankish campaign can be lots of fun, topsy turvy and occasionally even lost.

I took a somewhat different method,seeing the Bungundri and Lombards wanted to go to war with me I happily obliged them,by sending my faction leader on a spree to take there cities,accompanied by numerous Golden band Mercs,Sarmatian cav archers and a unit of levy spearmen,just for the ability to weaken the enemy with jav fire. After a few hairy battles with 2 opoosing faction bodyguards fortunatley one of them was stupid enough to chase my horse archers around the map,while I dealt with the rest of his army, I am finally laying siege to the final lombard city. Just hoping the horde that comes when it falls doesn't go for one of my cities,but harrass the WRE instead and does my capital ever make a profit? so far it's around -2000 in the hole and going futher into debt with every turn..

Since this is Rome Total War: Barbarian Invasion, it just made sense to me that my Franks should become a barbarian horde, invade Rome and well, make total war. As such, the Franks became a horde on turn two after I had wrecked and sold everything worth anything in their homeland.

The horde units gave me enough for four stacks, each with a family member. Two of the stacks got mostly horde swordsmen and archers for taking settlements and the other two stacks got the horde spearmen and cavalry for support. I then split these into two groups each with a stack for siege and support.

I crossed the Rhine and besieged the WRE settlement to the immediate west. Two stacks make the siege easy to auto-calc, as you have overwhelming numbers, so the losses were minor. While the first group built siege equipment the other group went south with the spy as scout. I sacked the first settlement and continued to sack my way into Italy, plundering Arles, Massilia and Mediolanum as well. Next, I built forts at the three bridges and one bottleneck leading into Italy south and west of Mediolanum and destroyed any WRE forces wandering around. The forts were manned with non-horde units, so that these garrisons would not be disbanded. Finally I set up my attacks and in one turn occupied Ravenna and exterminated Rome and Tarentum.

I quickly built a non-horde army and took Syracuse, Carthage and Caralis and retook Mediolanum and Massilia. I added a few more forts at bridges and bottlenecks which gave me a rich, secure base of operations that supports several strong field armies. Each army consists of a general, six spearman, two sword herbanns, six hunters, four Noble cavalry and an Onager, all with silver weapons and armor and three or more levels of experience. So equipped, all of the units performed adequately.

As a side note, I made Caralis Christian so that I could build Paladins there. This takes about a dozen turns and a good sized garrison. By the time the necessary buildings are done the population is Christian. This doesn’t interfere with the rest of my Pagan Empire since it is on an island.

The Goths arrived, but cannot negotiate my outer perimeter of forts (I destroyed the one stack that did). I’ve taken Lepsis Magna and will conquer the Berbers. I can then take Spain and the three target provinces in Gaul that I need for victory. This strategy avoids conflict with the other hordes that wander around northern Europa.

Alemanni aren't worth going after, one more target for Romans, can't really retrain units, not in good money spot.

May I have some help with this faction? I've four settlements at this moment: the capital, Vicus Francorum, and Campus Frisius, Campus Chattium, Campus Burgundiorum. Why the hell the capital always goes down economically? When I had just Vicus, along with Chattium, it started to go down, then I took Frisius and finances went positive, then, after 4-5 turns, down again. So I took Burgundiorum and everything OK.

I've built economic structures, no way... furthermore, Chattium and Frisius are always in revolt. I've made them revolt and then annihilated all the population, within 6-7 turns they've already the red face.

WRE is Christian, Franks are pagan. That is a problem. Try for one or the other religion, put pagan family members in pagan towns and Christians in Christian towns. I don't attack Rome right away, I go after the Saxons, and I don't like to go for the rebels to the east, though I usually do. Fight either WRE or WRER, one or the other.

Hi Vincent, you came here too, thanks a lot.:bow:

That problem has been almost fixed, as I converted to Christianity. Listen, now that my whole empire has passed to Christianity, why when I accept new family members they're still pagan?

Those rebels who refuse to convert? You could always reject the pagan ones. I guess you would have to look at what percentage of the population of that region where he is is pagan vs Christian. Christianity may be more dominant, but there may still be pagans around. I usually end up with more Pagan. I guess I can control that with churches and such, best done after exterminating. If I don't exterminate, I go with what is predominant. Christianity is nice because with the Franks, you get the Paladin. Also, as I am a Christian, I would prefer that my empire is Christian, even if it is just a game.

So I am starting into BI again. Went with the Franks. Do I attack WRE right off the bat? I think so, because they attack you quickly anyway, even though they like to ally at the start. It seems like you are supposed to go after the two rebel towns to the east, but I don't think that is a good idea. Money being the problem.

Or do you attack those towns, and fortify your first town? I think if it is strong Rome will not bother you. Your units can handle theirs on the wall, once you get the Heerbann. Of course, if they have many Comitatenses, you will need lots of Heerbann, since their main infantry unit is an excellent sword unit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vincent Butler

So I am starting into BI again. Went with the Franks. Do I attack WRE right off the bat? I think so, because they attack you quickly anyway, even though they like to ally at the start. It seems like you are supposed to go after the two rebel towns to the east, but I don't think that is a good idea. Money being the problem.

Or do you attack those towns, and fortify your first town? I think if it is strong Rome will not bother you. Your units can handle theirs on the wall, once you get the Heerbann. Of course, if they have many Comitatenses, you will need lots of Heerbann, since their main infantry unit is an excellent sword unit.

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So I figured out a little strategy. Put Campus Francii to very high taxes, and disband your peasants. Disbanding the peasants will put your population enough to upgrade your city. Try to get map info from WRE, they will offer an alliance; take it. Build a couple of archers and a cav unit, and go after Campus Chatii, and put it to very high taxes. Campus Frisii will put you at odds with Rome too quickly. Let Rome take it, then let it rebel and take out the WRER and crank the taxes up there too. Rome will not bother you as much, it seems. The Saxons are your next target.

If you don't value alliances, you could go after Colonia Agrippina, I don't break alliances so I am going after the Saxons instead. My spy in Colonia Agrippina is not causing a rebellion. Because I know Rome will attack me at the drop of a hat if Campus Francii is weak, I have no problems undermining them, though I will not violate an alliance directly. Their city is upgraded enough to build good units, so I can retrain quickly and figure out my next target. I am surprised Rome has not attacked yet.

I think the computer is giving the Saxons money. They have one settlement, yet were able to upgrade their town, to the level it has a Hundredmen Hall, despite having lots of family members. Well, not anymore. Four attacked Campus Chatii, three did not survive and the fourth fled like a frightened goat.

The reason for cranking up the taxes is to compensate for all the family members you will get, it seems you get a lot in a short amount of time so your finances go south quickly.

So an update. Got up to 50,000 denarii, am a bit lower now since Celts came across channel to attack Samarobriva. Eastern Empire is gone (Sassanids and Sarmatians), and in the same turn the ERER were wiped out, so no ERE anymore. Yes, I know that if the ERE gets wiped out, the ERER become the ERE, but both are destroyed. The WRE got wiped out, the Lombardi finished them off, and the WRER rebels are now the WRE. I wiped the Goths out, Ostrogoths popped up and were wiped out in the same turn. Romano British were wiped out by Celts, Slavs are still around, in, guess where?...Campus Iazyges! Where all hordes go, for some reason.:confused:

Am about to cross the channel to deal with the Celts. Francisca Heerbann are awesome, those franciscas wipe out enemy formations. Also, the Paladin Bodyguards are virtually invincible. Are the Axe Heerbann's only advantage over the Sword Heerbann the lower upkeep? They cost the same, but the AH are 20 lower upkeep, and have I think it is 2 less defense. Is there any reason to field AH in addition to the SH, other than upkeep (and to mix up my units a little bit)?