Spain orders arrest of US troops

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Originally Posted by AdrianII

The U.S. Army has developed a track record of killing non-embedded journalists, both Americans and foreigners. It wants journalists to be embedded in order to control their movements, contacts and perspective. It makes life generally difficult and sometimes miserable for non-embeds and I suspect that in some cases they are intentionally targeted. This shooting of a hotel full of non-embeds is very suspicious indeed; it is part of a pattern and it should be fully investigated by another institution than the one primarily responsible for the shooting.

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An investigation by both the Military and Committee to Protect Journalists has been conducted - and seemly discounted by the judge in Spain and you. An accusation based upon emotion does not equate to delibrate targeting of journalists. Unfortunate circumstances and the desire to report from the front lines lead to the deaths of many of the journalists - and some were unfortunate accidents like the events around the Palestine Hotel.

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I find it amusing that some American posters reacted so incredulously to the report about the Spanish arrest warrants, and immediately came up with improvised arguments that the soldiers must have been innocent, that the Spanish judge must be out of order and that the warrants must be politically motivated. I could state with equal force that the shooting of the Spanish journalist must have been politically motivated, and I would be equally wrong.

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Oh but the arrest warrant is politically motivated regardless of what you believe to be right or wrong. Just look at how the Spanish Public Prosecutor reacted to the filing of the arrest warrants.

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Originally Posted by CNN article Linked in initial post

And the National Court prosecutor's office said later Wednesday it would appeal the arrest warrant on the ground the magistrate has no jurisdiction in the case, Spanish news reports said.

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Two investigations have been conducted one by the Military of the United States - and one by the Committe to Protect Journalists come to basically the same conclusion that the Hotel was not delibrately targeted. Even look at your comments show that your jumping to conclusions that are not there faster then the ones you are attempting to blame.

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Dutch authorities recently arrested an Angolan peace negotiator named Membe on Dutch soil at the request of the United States, because Membe is being accused in the U.S. of having been involved in the kidnapping of an American twenty-five years ago. The terms of Mr Membe's possible transfer to the U.S. are now being negociated. The kid-napping took place twenty-five years ago in the midst of a civil war where the American had no business being, and the only indication of Mr Membe's alleged involvement with the kidnappers is that he seems to have been the boy who brought the kidnapped American his food and some outside messages.

Yet, we consider the case on its merits because that is part and parcel of the civilised discourse between nations. I reckon Mr Membe, surviving as a youth in the midst of a civil conflict that makes the American Civil War look like a convent, had to make some 'split-second decisions' in his lifetime as well. But some decision just don't stand up to scrutiny.

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Oh look attempting to place another judgement in the discussion, and speaking of merits - I guess you wish to ignore what a journalist group has to say about the Palestine Hotel?

On this particlur issue has a previous investigation by a governemental agency determined that no crime has been conducted by the individaul. Not just an official investigation but also a private one, has determined the same conclusion. Attempting to compare situations and leaving out the critical piece that two investigations have been done and both show that no willful violation of the laws of war, nor the deliberate targeting of journalists was done.

Speaking of Hyperbole - next you will want to bring me up on Murder Charges for my particaption in Desert Storm.

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Originally Posted by solypsist

http://www.rehumanize.us/journalists.html

i referenced this with the intent to demonstrate that reporters killed by US troops (direct or indirect) was low, at least i believed it to be so.

7 out of 19 (on this list) were killed by Americans. this is unfortunate; that's almost one-third.

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According to the IFJ, there are 18 deaths of journalists and media staff at the hands of US soldiers since the invasion of Iraq that still require proper investigation. And I was not just talking of Iraq, because the track record of unaccounted for U.S. 'media killings' goes back at least to the 1999 Kosovo war. The bombings of neutral media offices would be part of the pattern.

http://www.ifj.org/default.asp?index=3429&Language=EN

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Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia

Does Spain have the authority to order their arrest though, considering the death of the journalist wasn't on Spanish territory. If I kill someone in Mexico, Canada can't order my arrest for it, to be tried in Canada, AFAIK. Either way, nothing is going to happen to the crew, lest Spain wants some infrastructure damage.

Edit: 1/3 is very low, soly, considering most nations only have a few thousand men there, we sent in over 250,000.

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that´s funny......considering that just the other day someone pointed out in this board that the US government claims the right to prosecute for crimes involving it´s citizens outside of the united states......

what´s good for the goose.....

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Originally Posted by Redleg

Two investigations have been conducted, one by the Military of the United States - and one by the Committe to Protect Journalists (..)

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Yes, I am aware of it. We have one report from the U.S. Military (the perpetrator, hardly a credible judge) and one from the CPJ based solely on reporters' accounts. After the CPJ filed a FOA request for the Army report and got a sanitised version of it in early 2004, they were very disappointed. 'The failure of the U.S. military to provide an honest and open accounting of what occurred keeps alive questions about whether U.S. forces are taking the necessary steps to avoid endangering journalists' (CPJ executive director Ann Cooper).

I mean: come on, earlier in the morning of that same April 8th, the U.S. bombed the Al-Jazeera office in Bagdad (just like they had bombed the Al-Jazeera office in Kabul two years before) and killed their cameraman; half an hour later an American tank intentionally destroyed the Abu Dhabi TV office, and half an hour after that it fired at the Palestine and killed another two non-embedded journalists. That is a bit rich for a coincidence. I think Eason Jordan may have had a point when he remarked (during the Davos Forum 2005) that U.S. forces deliberately target journalists. This has to be investigated and the fact that the United States are not cooperating does not release other people from their obligations.

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Originally Posted by Ronin

that´s funny......considering that just the other day someone pointed out in this board that the US government claims the right to prosecute for crimes involving it´s citizens outside of the united states......

what´s good for the goose.....

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Is Spain the US, and did Spain claim this right? If so, fine, they can *try*, but we won't cooperate for a casualty of war, but if not, then their grounds for this are unfounded.

The infrastructure damage was a joke, CAN'T YOU BLOODY SOCIALISTS TAKE A BLOODY JOKE? Apparently not, *whistles* we won the cold war though

So what if a journalist dies, he's in a combat zone, he's at risk. He should know this, and if his death means more US Soldiers living, he's expendable.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia

Is Spain the US, and did Spain claim this right? If so, fine, they can *try*, but we won't cooperate for a casualty of war, but if not, then their grounds for this are unfounded.

The infrastructure damage was a joke, CAN'T YOU BLOODY SOCIALISTS TAKE A BLOODY JOKE? Apparently not, *whistles* we won the cold war though

So what if a journalist dies, he's in a combat zone, he's at risk. He should know this, and if his death means more US Soldiers living, he's expendable.

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Except that it is the soldier´s job to die, when it isn´t the journalist´s...

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Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia

*whistles* we won the cold war though

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No, the mujahedeen did that. And they are winning their next war as we speak...

Just joking, just joking. :coffeenews:

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Originally Posted by AdrianII

No, the mujahedeen did that. And they are winning their next war as we speak...

Just joking, just joking. :coffeenews:

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In a way I hope they do. I'd love to see what these kind peaceful muslims would do to the likes of the Netherlands and persons such as yourself. I bet, just between your 5 prayers a day, you'll wish those Ameircans you hated so much in your former life had succeded. Maybe we'll see, maybe we won't. Eurabia will determine that.

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

In a way I hope they do. I'd love to see what these kind peaceful muslims would do to the likes of the Netherlands and persons such as yourself. I bet, just between your 5 prayers a day, you'll wish those Ameircans you hated so much in your former life had succeded. Maybe we'll see, maybe we won't. Eurabia will determine that.

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By that time I'll be banned by this forum's right-leaning mods anyway. I'll start my own guerilla, lobbing Edam cheeses into the American embassy in The Hague.
'Keell de Americans. Alhamdullilah!'
Ka-schluck!

Ohhh I love Edam! I would have to camp out in the American Embassy claiming to be a refugee in the Netherlands just so I can get free Edam!

Had a neighbour who made cheese the traditional Netherlands whey ~;) in NZ, huge smelly round pieces of cheese. Some of which had a rind so hard that it felt like a car tyre. But the taste. ~D

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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave

In a way I hope they do. I'd love to see what these kind peaceful muslims would do to the likes of the Netherlands and persons such as yourself. I bet, just between your 5 prayers a day, you'll wish those Ameircans you hated so much in your former life had succeded. Maybe we'll see, maybe we won't. Eurabia will determine that.

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if your government keeps helping them gain more and more support in the muslim world through your ill-tought actions....it might just happen....

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

Had a neighbour who made cheese the traditional Netherlands whey ~;) in NZ, huge smelly round pieces of cheese. Some of which had a rind so hard that it felt like a car tyre. But the taste. ~D

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Rest assured, Abdul ibn HardanII's cheese commandos will not spare the NZ embassy! http://matousmileys.free.fr/ali.gif

So they are linked to the French are they? ~:cool:

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

So they are linked to the French are they? ~:cool:

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French cheeses do not have a similar impact. At least that is what they taught me in Mercenary School.
http://matousmileys.free.fr/pinocchio2.gif

If they start using the blue vein cheese it will be an act of biological warfare and I will have to respond with a box of crackers and some port. ~D

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

If they start using the blue vein cheese it will be an act of biological warfare

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Within the framework of mutually assured destruction, the Dutch can always resort to their Limburgian Stinkcheese. Honestly, that is its real name, and for a real reason. It is the only cheese in the world that actually gets rid of flies instead of attracting them...
:sick2:

Ah that's not even nuclear.

Try Stinky Tofu. It is so bad that you would want to gargle with Durian juice just to get rid of the smell. It is the real reason that Taiwan is not allowed into the UN. It smells like a pile of human turds unflushed and left in the midday sun... if you are lucky. ~:cool:

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

Ah that's not even nuclear.

Try Stinky Tofu. It is so bad that you would want to gargle with Durian juice just to get rid of the smell. It is the real reason that Taiwan is not allowed into the UN. It smells like a pile of human turds unflushed and left in the midday sun... if you are lucky. ~:cool:

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I think we, um, get the picture, Papewaio.

*Nearly chokes on own vomit*

http://www.artspacegallery.co.uk/Ima...tEdge/turd.jpg

The last sentence is an accurate description of the smell of Stinky Tofu. Truly. :book:

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

The last sentence is an accurate description of the smell of Stinky Tofu. Truly. :book:

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Pape is right :embarassed:

It is truely that bad... Only cheese that might compare (remotely) is the worm infested "walking" stinky corsican cheese.

Blue cheese is easy and sweet compared to it.

Louis,

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If they're so bad.....why do they make and even ...glp... eat them?!? :gah:
.

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The U.S. Army has developed a track record of killing non-embedded journalists, both Americans and foreigners. It wants journalists to be embedded in order to control their movements, contacts and perspective. It makes life generally difficult and sometimes miserable for non-embeds and I suspect that in some cases they are intentionally targeted. This shooting of a hotel full of non-embeds is very suspicious indeed; it is part of a pattern and it should be fully investigated by another institution than the one primarily responsible for the shooting.

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Where did I put my tin foil hat? ~:rolleyes:

Please tell me that was hyperbola and you dont actually believe that nonsense... :no:

Perhaps the American soldiers in Afghanistan should have killed the embedded Australian journalists with them .
It may have been better than letting them finish making their documentary , as of course the soldiers actions and words are not representative of what America is all about .
And we know that , as once again the US administration has had to tell us that the US soldiers are not representative of America .

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Originally Posted by Mouzafphaerre

.
If they're so bad.....why do they make and even ...glp... eat them?!? :gah:
.

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I don't know why but my wife likes it... I told her if she has it she could sleep on the couch.

...but we all know that you are going to be the one that ends up sleeping on the couch if you are too picky for your own good...~;)

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Originally Posted by PanzerJager

Where did I put my tin foil hat? ~:rolleyes:

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Next to your sound reasons, reliable sources and convincing argument?http://matousmileys.free.fr/gruebel2.gif