I understand what you're saying. What kind of early human evidence are you talking about?Quote:
Originally Posted by _Martyr_
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I understand what you're saying. What kind of early human evidence are you talking about?Quote:
Originally Posted by _Martyr_
If god is omnipotent, then by definition he could make everything in the bible true. Or he could make it all false. Which is it? You can't tell!
Therefore...pointless.
This bit.Quote:
Explain yourself.
How is this possible. What facts do you have to support this?Quote:
It is true, but it tells the age beyond the creation
No. You refute my hypothysis.
Where is this in the Bible?Quote:
God planted things on the Earth when he created it that were already dead and a fossil.
Have you actually considered the idea that you might actually wrong?
As I said. i am a 'recovering' Christian. I was wrong.
There are a huge amount of human remains that have been found from all around the world that have been dated as older than 6500 years, explain...
I could possibly be wrong. There's always that possibility. I haven't lost this discussion because we are still talking.
I believe I am right because I am a Christian and I'm talking to a bunch of Atheists and Agnostics. You really think I would become a Christian if I didn't know what I was talking about?
em... Im a Christian...
That's good news.
I am quite sure that you have a sincere belief system. You have been told these things. Indoctination. Brainwashing. Call it what you want. There is not a shred of evidence for a 'supreme being'.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZainDustin
*No. You are talking in a games forum.
Dont take this the wrong way but, were you born into a (I would say Fundamental) Christian family that hold the same beliefs as you? And also, how old are you?
The Universe is evidence of a Supreme Being. This was not chance, someone, or something had to have created it. Or atleast those gases that created the Big Bang.
Who created God?
Yes, I was born in a Christian Family, and my age is irrelavant. I am old enough to know how to think for myself and rule out the stupid answers.Quote:
Originally Posted by _Martyr_
Well, then you didnt really choose to become a Christian as such. You were born into the belief system. The age question was only to judge if you had a huge amount of life experience away from your family's influence which would give you a more balanced view on things.
I understand all that. I am 14. But, I have done more research about this kind of thing then most. Why would I be arguing with people on a Forum if I didn't believe beyond how I was raised? I have looked at all the alternatives, and I CHOSE to be a Christian. I wasn't born that way. Plus, I'd rather be a Christian, and have something to look forward to after death. Instead of an Atheist that has nothing to look forward to but death and silence.
All I'll say is that lots of things change as you get older. Things I held for certain at 14, such as the lack of a God, have become less clear as Ive got a bit older. And Im only 20. Who knows what Ill believe in another few years with a bit more experience of the world, and the same goes for you.
Possibly. But I am stubborn, and most of the time only I can change my mind. That's why I'm good at debating with people. :thumbsup:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZainDustin
As you say, you are 14. Can you (at that age) really be sure of anything? There are monks who spend their whole lives pondering such things and yet to come to an answer.
Is the 'something you look forward to' after death just a way of your mind coping with the idea of mortality?
Im not trying to denegrate your faith, Im genuinely interested in the motivations of religious belief but as an atheist I feel the need to explore the religious.
My motivations as a Christian is to please my God, be a good influence on others as to lead them to God, and to go to Heaven when I die. I want to see Jesus with my own two eyes, face to face, in Heaven. And witness God's glory first hand.
A common misconception. We atheists have everything to look forward to.Quote:
an Atheist that has nothing to look forward to but death and silence.
Life.
I don't live my life on some ephemeral promise of a reward on another plane. I live my life to the full. In the certainty that this is it. No second chances, no afterlife, no redemption, just the opportunity to receive and give love with my kith and kin.
Ever heard of circular reasoning?
here is an example:
Write on a piece of paper the following:
"This piece of paper is the truth."
Now say the following:
"The piece of paper is the truth because it says so."
That is circular reasoning in the simplest of examples. Sound biblical?
Christians will always deny outside evidence that contradicts with the bible by saying:
"The piece of paper is true because it says so."
Or in other words:
"The bible is true because it says so".
Referring to the bible in a factual argument only destroys the credibility of your argument.
But then again, WTF do any of us really know? Maybe the piece of paper is true.
I prefer to give the Lord alot more credit then that, though. Why would He create the world with "a starting age" when He could create it from scratch and watch it grow? Which is more fun: Raising a child to adulthood and influencing its development, or creating an adult "clone"-type of being that automitaclly is preprogrammed. Existence is the child of God. And He is enjoying raising his creation from infancy.
whether it's an appealing idea has nothing to do with whether you believe in anything or not. sure, the idea of heaven is quite nice, but that don't make it any more credible to non-believers.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZainDustin
Just look it at this way. If i'm right there is a heaven, then its all good and I played the chances right. If not, i'm not gonna be around to regret it. But all in the end I think its just about living a good life, and that humanity has missed that point. We get way to hung up on what each other believes and all this talk about the bible and missed the living well and good part.
Genes and memes...
For myself, death and silence would be a fine end to a life well-lived. I can't imagine what eternal life would be like except dull. Certainly oblivion is preferable to eternity in the company of the 'Elect' that I have met. ~:wacko:Quote:
Originally Posted by ZainDustin
Unless, of course, there was to be endless repetition of Allegri's Miserere, sung in the Sistine Chapel or Merton College - perhaps the piece of music that I would accept as the voice of God. I'd be willing to bet that wouldn't be your idea of heaven though! :eyebrows:
Zain, since you like to be well-read and informed, try reading 'The Myth of Sisyphus' by Albert Camus for one philosophical viewpoint on why atheism can be very fulfilling. :book:
Correction - the bible states no such thing - Man has interpated the Old Testiment to mean 6500 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by _Martyr_
Mucho funnyness :laugh4:
Ok, I believe there could be a God but no way does he bear much relation to what any religion says he does. Let's face it, they can't all be right.
Zain
If you think you've done more research then most people then you haven't been on these forums for very long. I would say that at 14 it's easy to feel that you know everything, but give yourslef 5 years and you won't be so definite, trust me I'm a doctor, well I'm not really but Rory is :laugh4:
Paganism is different than Heathenism.
Paganism means you worship the gods of the old pantheon ( Dacian, Geraman etc.) while Heathenism is a represented by the Wicca comunities and other witchcraft crap.
I'm a pagan. I worship Zalmoxis and charge with a smile into everything, including my bathroom.
Anyway, I don't think there is a Supreme Creator. First there was chaos, then Gaia, Tartarus and Erebus. Then Cronos, Thetis, Oceanus, Iapetus, Hyperion and all the titans. After that there ware the Olympian Gods.
[B]The Christian God may just be Zeus' unborn child[B]
The Bible imports many of It's episodes from the sumerians, pheonicians and mostly from the Egyptians and thus can't be read mot-a-mot( word-by-word).
The Flood first appears on the Tartaria tablets, then later in The Epic of Gilgamesh and Greek Mythology. Even the aztecs had a flood.
Immortality of the soul and rebirth ( again nothing new, Zalmoxis preached to the dacians about immortality long before Jesus was born).
Seeing as how many different religions (and possibly other ancient texts) mention it, it is likely that a great flood did actually happen. Some people claim the Sphinx shows marks caused by the flood, but this isn't really accepted in the Egyptology community afaik.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cronos Impera
I always loved how one of my old teachers explained Genesis: the Jews were slaves of the Babylonians, and as many oppressed people, stated losing touch with their own culture. To show the power of the One true God the priests told the people of how God created the universe. Now the babylonians also had a creation myth of course: it was a complicated story about slaying eachother and making worlds from the bones of the fallen. Jehova just had to say a word to create the universe.
So really, all that Genesis is, is a story about how my God can beat up your God :laugh4:
Christianity. :2thumbsup:
From the other thread:
No, I have no belief about religion. By logic, it is impossible to prove that God doesn`t exist. I don`t know if it is possible to prove that he exist; I am not sure about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by mystic brew
But no scientific evidence has yet been shown to me, so my stance is neutral.
We can alter our perception of time as well. But how did he come into being in the first place? WHERE would he be if there was absolutely nowhere for him to even be in?Quote:
Originally Posted by ZainDustin
Even if he is real, why does he want people to praise him? Is he some kind of egoistic immature character who absolutely loves being in the centre of attention? He is also a totalitarian dictator: think, talk and act like he wants, or forever burn in hell. Wow, he sounds like Hitler or Stalin. People must suffer because Christ suffered: if he is that selfish, how is he in any way perfect? And why did we have to suffer before Jesus Christ came? My major point of annoyance: why must you believe in him to enter heaven? People have valid reasons for doubting in his existence. It's not as if he's shown himself to us yet. Also, how is this fair for say, Gandhi? He is virtuous and helps people at his own cost, risking his life, yet he does not believe in God. Does this mean that he went to hell for this "sin"?
ok, soft agnostic position then! sorry, i thought your first post was saying that you believed it was impossible to prove one way or the other, and so you refused to take a position on principle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viking
That's where human comprehension pretty much ends. That's one thing I can't answer. He's God, so he was always there. And, where he resides? on his alter in Heaven.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberius
All he wants you to accept that Jesus is his son, and to believe in him, and you will go to Heaven. Why do people think that's such a big deal? To go to eternal happiness, all you have to do is ask Jesus into your heart, or you Will burn in Hell. Just a quick decision can save you from eternal pain. He wants you to do this, because he believes that if you don't do this SMALL thing, you don't deserve to go to Heaven, but he loves you, and wants you there. It's your decision on whether you join him in Heaven or not. I know I'll be there with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberius
If Ghandi didn't believe in God, and Jesus, yes he is in Heaven, but not because of his sin. Only because he didn't accept Jesus into his heart, but no doubt he was a good man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberius
You have that all wrong. Whenever Jesus was put on the cross, all burden of sin, past, present, and future was put on him, so You don't have to be "crusified" for you sin. He was killed, so you don't have to be put through that. All you have to do is accept him, and ask forgiveness for you sin. That's it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberius
-ZainDustin
First of all, original sin itself is all wrong. Before adam and eve ate "the apple" they did not know the difference between good and evil. Therefore, they did not know it was evil to eat the apple. So how can God punish us for something we did not know was wrong? The "expulsion from eden" was our spiritual awakening and transformation into thinking, choosing human beings. It fits in perfectly with evolution.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZainDustin
Hence, no need for a messiah.
But let's assume for fun that original sin is real. How does the physical death of Jesus cancel out my "spiritual death"? So he died on the cross. Doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Death is an eventuallity, whether you are murdered or die peacefully. Now if Jesus went to hell for all eternity, that would be a different story. THAT would be a sacrifice.
Finally, assuming that (a) original sin is real and (b) Jesus really was God and that his physical death actually menat something, then why the heck do I need to believe it? If he made the sacrifice, then "believing" in it is pointless.
Jesus is the boogey man waiting to kill you in the closet or under the bed. He's Santa Claus in the North Pole. Superman flying throught the sky.
Worship Jesus and you are worshipping a man in the place of our one God. Christianity is pagan. The father, the son, the holy ghost = 3 gods, not one.
Granted, Christianity has done alot of good in this world, but it has also done just as much evil. And all in worship of a human being.
The teachings of Jesus show us a different path. Jesus taught us to be closer to God by simplifying everything. He told as that there are two commandments (love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself.)
The beauty of Jesus was his ability to get people past all the BS bureaucracy and rules that the saducees and pharisees had attached to our worship of the Lord. His disciples, especially Paul, were brilliant in that they brought the Lord to those outside of Judaism. But they were not trying to promote Jesus as God, they were trying to bring the teachings of Jesus to a wider audience.
The sooner that we put the destructive myths of Original Sin and Jesus-as-God into the religious history books, the better off the world will be. One day, the world will all worship the one true God and this distraction from our Lord will be put to a final rest.
Oh- and one more thing. Adam is hebrew for mankind. The Torah is the old testament and was first written in hebrew. So there is no "Adam" as a single person. So "mankind" "ate" "the apple". It also says nothing about a rib bone.
Literal translation of Genesis 1:27 from Hebrew to English-
And created | God | the mankind | in His image, | In the image of | God | He created | him; | male | and female | He created | them
And there is a whole lot more where that came from.
This is not true. As a baptist I dont belive in orginnal sin anyway but saying this is a fallacy.God TOLD them not to eat the apple it says so right there in the book and yet there were led into temtation like all of us have been.Quote:
First of all, original sin itself is all wrong. Before adam and eve ate "the apple" they did not know the difference between good and evil. Therefore, they did not know it was evil to eat the apple. So how can God punish us for something we did not know was wrong? The "expulsion from eden" was our spiritual awakening and transformation into thinking, choosing human beings. It fits in perfectly with evolution.
Now you're making it up as you go along.Quote:
If Ghandi didn't believe in God, and Jesus, yes he is in Heaven, but not because of his sin. Only because he didn't accept Jesus into his heart, but no doubt he was a good man.
So Gandhi doesn't get the keys then.Quote:
The Bible says that nobody is good enough to get into heaven. Each one of us has broken God's commandments--not one person is excepted. You have personally lied and committed other sins.
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23)
[L]et God be true, but every man a liar...( Romans 3:4)
I don't care how much "good" stuff you do, you still can't go to heaven. You are dead in tresspasses and sins. Your good deeds do not commend you to God in any way. You've ignored Him chosing to live life the way YOU see fit.
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. (Isaiah 64:6)
Little thing called evidence. If we followed the route of just believing, then there would be no need for courts, as evidence would be superfluous.Quote:
All he wants you to accept that Jesus is his son, and to believe in him, and you will go to Heaven. Why do people think that's such a big deal? To go to eternal happiness, all you have to do is ask Jesus into your heart, or you Will burn in Hell. Just a quick decision can save you from eternal pain. He wants you to do this, because he believes that if you don't do this SMALL thing, you don't deserve to go to Heaven, but he loves you, and wants you there. It's your decision on whether you join him in Heaven or not. I know I'll be there with him.
I'd rather Yahweh did'n't love me, if I have to kneel before him in subservience. That's not what I call love.
I think ZainDustin meant to say hell...could be wrong, but could be right...Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
Probably correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by mystic brew
I don`t have any believes when it comes to religion, so agnosticism just doesn`t entirely fit my view. :thinking:
I'm SO sorry. That was a huge typo. I'm sorry, I had been typing a whole lot that day, and I was tired from working some with my dad. It should read like this...Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
Sorry about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZainDustin
That is ABSOLUTELY correct Strike for the South. You are wrong Divinus ArmaQuote:
Originally Posted by Strike for the South
So let me get this right.
Gandhi didn't get into Heaven because he didn't believe in your God. However, someone for instance, like Hitler, a Roman Catholic who did believe, was accepted?
:dizzy2:
Its not my God its THE GOD :mellow:and Hitler like any other christian could ask for forgiveness. While Ghandi was a non beliver so Im putting my money on Hitler.Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
ive always gone with the principle that as long as you do good in the name of god, whatever that god may be called you will be in heaven, I believe Hitler would not have done what he did if he truly followed Jesus's teachings i can't tell you whether or not he would be forgiven i (like anyone else) haven't the authority, (by a longshot).Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
But they didn't know that disobeying God was evil.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZainDustin
Yes they did GOD told them not to. So they werent suppose to but were led into temptationQuote:
Originally Posted by Mongoose
Yay! I was right... :smiley:Quote:
Originally Posted by ZainDustin
Probably not, Hitler commited suicide, thus closing all doors for repentance, and ending his very sinful life with yet another grave sin...Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
But if you repent, then the lord will embrace you. After all the Lord loves no-one like a reformed sinner.
Look it says so.
Quote:
As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die... (Ezekiel 33:11)
The Lord is...not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (II Peter 3:9)
..the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (I John 1:7)
It's a very strange thing. You can live an utterly horrible life, sinning one after the other, but at the very end of your life, you could realize what you did was wrong, become a Christian, ask to be forgiven, and you will go to Heaven. But on the contrary, a utmost perfect person, who did everything good, and nothing bad, but wasn't a Christian would go to Hell. It's sad, in some cases.
-ZainDustin
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZainDustin
That sounds logical. Listen to yourself man. :no:
I know, it doesn't sound good, but that's how it works, occording to the bible.Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost908
It all boils down to this, you don't make it into Heaven by works, but by Faith.
You MUST be a Christian to enter Heaven.
-ZainDustin
Its not that diffucult just go to a churchQuote:
Originally Posted by ghost908
Amen!Quote:
Originally Posted by strike for the south
OK.
So tell me. If you live a life of utter depravity and maim, cripple, rape, murder, pederast, sodomize, beat, burn, pillage, ravage, steal, commit adultery, rob, blaspheme, lie, and take the Lords name in vain but you get the chance to repent, you get the keys?
On the other hand. If you help, say, the infirm, the poor, the troubled, the meek, the crippled, the ill, the starving, the elderly, the children and people in desperate need, just out of the goodness of your heart, but you reject the teachings of Jesus, then you burn in eternity?
Then how do you explain what happens to the roots of the tree?Quote:
Originally Posted by ZainDustin
Yes :blank2:Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
And you think this is a good thing?
It doesn't matter what I think. It's God's will.
-ZainDustin
But you have a brain. Of course you can think. What is your opinion on this?
My opinion is I think that's good. My reasoning is, why should God let people into his sanctuary if they don't even believe in him?
You know he gave you freewill right?
And that he places a very high premium on love too...
So does it make sense that a loving God will reject people who show love to his children but haven't been exposed to him?
I don't know about the people who weren't exposed to his word. But these days, everyone has been exposed to his word some time or another, accept the extremely isolated Africans or something. I think that's where the responsibility of the Believers comes in.
I don't know what to say about the people who were never exposed to the word.
-ZainDustin
Perhaps because they ellieviate suffering. Tend to the sick. Feed the poor. Protect the meek. Give help to all men whenever they are in distress.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZainDustin
Not much of a compassionate 'being' this God.
people keep saying that, but you don't get into Heaven by works, but by FAITH. a simple decision gets you into Heaven, that's it.
-ZainDustin
people who dont know get the same pass as little children who dont understand the sheer power of the comminet. They go becuase they had no chance BUT if you are openly refuting Gods word :thumbsdown:
And the roots of the tree? What happens to them?
Im sorry I dont understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
I geuss I don't understand the point of your question.
It's not sad, it defies logic. Even IF this God does exist, why would you worship a being that operates such a ridiculous salvation policy, arbitrarily throwing good people into hell just because they believed in a slightly different God, but allowing bad people to spend all eternity in heaven simply because moments before their death they said 'I believe in you God, will you forgive me?'. Damning anyone for all eternity is bad enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZainDustin
Plus, can anyone tell me why I should actually believe anything the Bible says?
For the last time you dont get in by doing good deeds you do it by having faith in the one true GOD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcellus
I understand that, I'm just saying that it seems like a rather ridiculous way of deciding who goes to heaven and who spends all eternity in hell (which by the way seems like a terribly cruel punishment for a loving God to do).Quote:
Originally Posted by strike for the south
Also, why shouldn't someone who has faith in what they believe to be a one true God go to heaven? They had exactly the same faith, just they were bought up in a society that tends to believe in a different God.
Doesn't defy logic at all. Obviously the biblical (one and true...don't kill me STFS) God wants his creation to believe and worship Him. Good and Bad are decided by God, and obviously, the bad of the bad is to not have faith. It's the ultimate sin, a per se. Therefore, if one is doing good deeds, but does not have faith, all his good deeds are in vain, because he did not do them for God, but for different reasons, perhaps selfish motives, or a philosophical sense of altruism...Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcellus
But why would you worship a God who operates such a cruel policy? Surely he should be defied, not pandered to?
It strikes me that bending the knee to such a divine being in order to secure your own salvation is no different to pandering to a despotic regime to ensure you are not the next one to go.
Why would anyone even contemplate such an entity, never mind worship one?
A being that rewards vile practises in His name is an abomination, ney an anathema to me.
A being that despises kindness, helpfulness, compassion, humanity, thoughtfulness, mercy, etc....etc....
Thankyou, you have convinced me that all organised religion is a menace to mankind.
Enjoy your afterlife. :no:
Doesn't personally seem so "cruel" to me, more like, punish the wicked (and arrogant who are unfaithful) and reward the righteous people with faith (and those who repent I guess) but that question would be better served towards ZainDustin or STFS...Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcellus
Except that, in the eyes of the faithful, this divine being is the ultimate goal of life, can do no wrong or injustice, will punish the wicked (unfaithfulness counts) while rewarding the righteous, and is full of mercy to the wicked who turn in sincere repentance while they are in this "test". "Bending the knee" to such a being is the obligation that the creation owes to his creator anyway, and it is just an added benefit that the creator will be merciful enough to give such a person everlasting bliss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcellus
But I tire of playing theologian now...~;)
EDIT: I in turn have a question for you ZainDustin, what do you personally believe (or what is your church's position) on what happens to people who do not recieve the message of God?
SFTS and ZD, consider this:
The tree was the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil, is that correct?
And God said, do not eat of it, correct?
And it is evil to disobey God, correct?
And before they ate, they were innocent of good and evil, correct?
Therefore, they did not know that it was evil to disobey God, because they had not yet eaten the apple.
I believe that the people who never hear the word are not held accounted for the information they never heard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reenk Roink
CorrectQuote:
Originally Posted by Divinus Arma
Correct
Correct
Correct
Incorrect. God told them not to eat the fruit, so in knowing that, they knew it was a sin for Adam or Eve to eat it, because it was the opposite of what God said.
-ZainDustin
The bible states that faith, belief and love are all important, but the most important is love.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reenk Roink
Therefore it seems stupid to make faith the primary criteria of judgement when Jesus was about love and love is stated as the most important of the 3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZainDustin
OH MY LAWD! *Do you see what I see* /end song
This is a TOTAL contradiction!!!!!!
You say that people are not held accountable for information they never heard. Adam and Eve never knew the difference between good and evil, so how could they be held accountable?
LISTEN: Just as you said people must first hear the gospel, so too should adam and eve have learnt the difference between good and evil.
Yes, God told them. But they did not yet know that it was evil to disboey him. How did they know it was evil to eat the apple if they did not know the difference between good and evil?
YOU aren't listening to a thing we've been saying. I worship my God because he is a loving God. He loves EVERYONE. He DOES NOT send anyone to Hell. They send THEMSELVES by not accepting him into his heart. Tell me, if you created these beings that could think for themselves, and then you created these two places for them to go when they die, wouldn't you want things that LOVE you to be in your sanctuary? Or should you just let all the un-believers to go into your house, your sanctuary, without even believing in you?Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
Hell is punishment for ignoring his knock on your heart's door for all your life.
I may not know what "ney an anathema" means, but I can imagine. The same goes here, he does not "award vile practises in His name" because a "vile practice" is considered a sin, in which he WILL NOT look upon. One is not a Christian unless he/she asks for forgiveness from their sins when they get saved.Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
YOU ARE SO IGNORANT!! He does NOT despise these acts, he loves them. But if they are not done in HIS name, who are they for? The only other Supernatural being other than him, Satan.Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
I have convinced you of this? Tell me how? For I know I have told you that God loves you and he wants a relationship with you. He is willing to forgive you for all sins you have committed, he has for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
I will enjoy it, because I WILL be in Heaven, but from what I've heard, if you keep going down the same track, you will be in Hell for always and eternity.Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
Enjoy YOUR afterlife.
-ZainDustin