Are You Rapture-Ready?

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Originally Posted by Mithras

Hitler was never a member of the Thule society. His links with the occult appear to have been a Pragmatic cynicism he considered it useful but ultimatly mumbo-jumbo.

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You're right. I confused somthing. However, a number of Nazi officials were members of the Thule Society before it was disbanded.

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my credentials in nazi hostory are poor, now i didnt originally single out hitler anyway, i thought that at least some of the architects of hitlers regime were atheists but perhaps i was wrong it was only a minor part of the point i was making anyway!

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I get your point (and you're right), I just find it a bit offensive to say that Nazi Germany was an atheist society when atheists were one of the minorities prosecuted in Nazi Germany.

Maybe Im crazy (or Catholic), but isnt the idea of predicting apocalypse contrary to the whole point of Christianity? You should be prepared for the end because you never know when it's coming.

:inquisitive: Well done, you guys are playing so nicely I might have to move this to the monastery. ~:bow:

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Originally Posted by Lehesu

I believed human beings are hard-wired to worship something.

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No, this is false, I and many others are completely atheist. It is fear of what happens in the afterlife and the unknown that drives us to religion, as all religion promise a good afterlife to those that do good.

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Originally Posted by Shaun

No, this is false, I and many others are completely atheist. It is fear of what happens in the afterlife and the unknown that drives us to religion, as all religion promise a good afterlife to those that do good.

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You ever read Pascal Boyer's Religion Explained? Boyer's thesis has some problems of its own (I must confess that I am favorably inclined towards religion though) but it still does a much better job "explaining" religion than the reasons you have given above. Boyer spends a great deal of time pointing out the deficiencies of them...

Even so, Religion cannot be logically or scientificly explained, and that is what matters most if something has to be proved or explained.

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Originally Posted by Shaun

Even so, Religion cannot be logically or scientificly explained, and that is what matters most if something has to be proved or explained.

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You must live a tortured life. So many mysteries in life that cannot be explained by logic and science! How ever can I encapsulate all of my surroundings into knowledge!?

And you misunderstood my definition of worship. The drive to succeed can be as much as an infinite trap as religion, or any other passion for that matter. The "death" formula of religion generally only becomes an issue when one becomes much older.

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Originally Posted by Shaun

Even so, Religion cannot be logically or scientificly explained, and that is what matters most if something has to be proved or explained.

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You're missing my point...

Go and read the book or a summary of it, then you will understand Boyer's thesis (in summary)...

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Originally Posted by Lehesu

You must live a tortured life. So many mysteries in life that cannot be explained by logic and science!

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such as?

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Originally Posted by Big_John

such as?

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Exactly how does a candle burn?

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Originally Posted by Big_John

such as?

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-President Bush being elected president! jk, dont want to spark a whole debate there.

-WOMEN!

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Originally Posted by Reenk Roink

Exactly how does a candle burn?

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Essentially it is a similar process when using a wick and a hydrocarbon reserviour that is liquid at room temperature. The only real difference is that the wax (solid hydrocarbon at room temperature) has to be liquified first before being consumed. The candle wax melts and then the hydrocarbon flows up the wick to burn in the flame. It creates heat through an exothermic chemical reaction which involves the fuel (hyrdocarbons) and the air (oxygen).

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Originally Posted by Reenk Roink

Exactly how does a candle burn?

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are you being facetious? i'm no candle-ologist, but i can't see how that'd be a mysterious phenomenon...

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Originally Posted by A.Saturnus

I confused somthing. However, a number of Nazi officials were members of the Thule Society before it was disbanded.

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IIRC it was Rudolph Hess who introduced the Thule to Hitler when they were imprisoned after the coup (with Hess being a pupil/acolyte of a Thule member, the name of which I can't remember).

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I just find it a bit offensive to say that Nazi Germany was an atheist society when atheists were one of the minorities prosecuted in Nazi Germany.

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I wouldn't call Nazi Christians though. Have you seen this documentary where Himmler was in charge of building a castle complex as an equivalent of the Vatican and he was to become the high priest. They even have plans and models.

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Originally Posted by Quietus

I wouldn't call Nazi Christians though. Have you seen this documentary where Himmler was in charge of building a castle complex as an equivalent of the Vatican and he was to become the high priest. They even have plans and models.

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They though that they were Christians, but instead they badly misinterprited the bible.
Just like what Bush does today.

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Originally Posted by Lehesu

So many mysteries in life that cannot be explained by logic and science!

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We should make a distinction between "cannot be explained" and "haven't been explained".

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Originally Posted by {BH}Goalie

-WOMEN!

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Women are among those things where an explanation doesn't really matter.

Take yawning, for example.

Anyway, my point is that for some people, they come to a point in their lives at which a supreme being becomes very palpable to them, often when they are at their worst. This spiritual experience is enough proof to them that religion is good and that it works. One that has not had that experience is more willing to quantify and refute on a lack of solid evidence. For people that have experienced such a period in their life, all the evidence they need has been provided.

It's like refuting someone's mathematical theory even though you haven't gone through the calculations yourself, or disagreeing with someone's scientific method without actually knowing the science the guy is working with.

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Originally Posted by Lehesu

Take yawning, for example.

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for example of what? a life mystery that cannot be explained by logical reasoning?

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Anyway, my point is that for some people, they come to a point in their lives at which a supreme being becomes very palpable to them, often when they are at their worst. This spiritual experience is enough proof to them that religion is good and that it works.

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religion and the "spiritual experience" are two different entities.

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One that has not had that experience is more willing to quantify and refute on a lack of solid evidence. For people that have experienced such a period in their life, all the evidence they need has been provided.

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this is the bunker that the "faithful" can command. however, an incommunicable experience forms absolutely no basis for understanding. and so taking this position is not very helpful to a discussion of the merits of theism, atheism, religion, spirituality, etc.

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It's like refuting someone's mathematical theory even though you haven't gone through the calculations yourself, or disagreeing with someone's scientific method without actually knowing the science the guy is working with.

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actually, it's not like that at all. one can sit down and work through a proof if they feel like it, and scientific experiments are reproducible. demonstrate a spiritual experience in an equivalent way. only then will these situations be similar.

Than define the spirit, if you so choose.

People will attack religion as being fake and illogical, unprovable and incomprehensible. And yet, strangely, many believe in spiritual experiences despite the fact that they, too, cannot be completely explained and quantified. What makes up the human spirit? Why does it exist and how does it work? What makes a spiritual experience what it is? People take the spirit for granted, and yet are willing to count out religion.

It's like a bunch of flies sitting on the back of a rhinocerous, confident that they are the only real living things in the area. What senses do we lack to see our surroundings with and probe the depths of our own being?

speaking for myself, i don't believe that anything i would call a "spirit" has a physical reality. so i would never pretend to define such beyond the conceptual definition i could read in a dictionary. that would be a task for a believer, i suppose.

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Originally Posted by Lehesu

Than define the spirit, if you so choose.

People will attack religion as being fake and illogical, unprovable and incomprehensible. And yet, strangely, many believe in spiritual experiences despite the fact that they, too, cannot be completely explained and quantified. What makes up the human spirit? Why does it exist and how does it work? What makes a spiritual experience what it is? People take the spirit for granted, and yet are willing to count out religion.

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Considering the profound effect brain damage can have on the personality, the "spirit" is heavily linked to the body, or we can exclude personality from the concept of human sprit.

As for religion itself, it got several problems added to it, outside the spiritual matters. Are they all right? All wrong? Who is right and who isn't?