Well, an event of this magnitude certainly calls for a celebration !
On a more serious note, I shall offer one tenth of my fortune to Hercules Invictus to thank the god of Victory for this total victory against the Gauls.
:balloon2:
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Well, an event of this magnitude certainly calls for a celebration !
On a more serious note, I shall offer one tenth of my fortune to Hercules Invictus to thank the god of Victory for this total victory against the Gauls.
:balloon2:
I would like to present to the Senate a work commissioned by my grandfather, who himself lived through the sack of Rome. This piece shows the re-founding of our great city in the aftermath of the Gallic defeat and expulsion from our lands. Let us remember that, though we may often feel that our actions are but a game, our ancestors lived through this terrible time. The fallen shall be forever remembered by the ever increasing glory of the Republic.
http://www.vroma.org/images/mcmanus_...ome_sciuti.jpg
(OOC: "The Second Founding of Rome, after the Defeat of the Gauls," painting by G. Sciuti)
{Cornelius Saturninus}
Senators, let us not lose focus at a time like this. The Gallic tribes may all be under another nation's rule, but they are not destroyed as a people. Many hundreds of them serve in our legions, many thousands more in rival armies. A keen eye must be kept on them. We mustn't lose sight of the fact that the Thracians are breathing down our necks, they are the new Gauls. Do not lose yourselves in celebration and drinking, as you may soon find yourselves too tired to fight off the Thracian hordes.
As I write this from the fort I am stationed at along the Danube, a Thracian contingent makes it's way towards the river crossing. I will attack it in the morning before it crosses our borders. There are reports of many more Thracian forces moving in from the east, reinforcements will be of the essence in the coming years. Young Galerius Vatinius has been assigned as my Tribune... quite the loudmouth, unagreeable, angry fellow. Not much of a military man either, let's hope he doesn't get himself or my men killed out there. Let us hope my next letter will be to report the succesful repulsion of the Thracians at the Danube. Ave Senators.
[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: I cannot celebrate the destruction of Gaul at a time when our armies have been anhilated at Melite, our fleet defeated and my brother-in-law, Gaius Rutilus, slain by Carthaginians. Cornelius Saturninus is right, there is a loss of focus. I would go further and say there is a complacency here. Romans, where is your sense of honour and pride? We stand hear like cold old men, ignoring the shameful loss of our lands and instead celebrating an Iberian victory. This is absurd.
Senators - I believe that the Consuls have another year in office. I would like to know what plans they have for confronting Carthage. Do they plan to evict the Carthaginians from Melite? Are the garrisons of Aleria and Caralis to be reinforced with a Praetorian army led by a Lower House General?
I have requested a transfer to the Carthaginian front, but it has been denied. Fine. But I insist that we need at least three Lower House generals in the area even if we are just to defend ourselves: one to garrison Aleria and Caralis; one to garrison Sicily and one to reclaim Melite. At present, there is only Servius Aemilius present, a young man of 19 and only a student. We have no shortage of Lower House generals. At least two more should be sent to join Servius on our southern front.
By my rough count, we lost over 1250 men on the battles for Melite. This was more than were lost under the entire first term of Consul Aemilius (given that chirurgeons probably saved many who our battle reports record as casualties). Never again should we rely on Upper House generals to lead our armies in such crucial battles as that at Melite.
Gauls be damned, it is Carthage that is our main enemy now and it on her that all our attention should be focussed!
I wish Senator Saturninus the best of augers in his coming days. War against the Thracian barbarians has proven increasingly difficult, our losses unexpected, the number of men in their hordes greater than I had assumed. May Mars fight alongside you in your struggles to come, and may Jupiter make that fool Vatinius sleep his days away, so that his angry ramblings and poor judgement does not cost men their lives on the field.
On another note, I feel that senator Aureolus's request for three legions in the Carthaginian theatre are at present unnecessary. I do not believe Carthage would be so brash as to assault Aleria or Caralis before at least making a foothold on Sicily, and that is an act I will not let happen. If I were to make a suggestion on the situation, I would request a second legion be sent to the fort in central Sicily, that I may have a defensible, unexhausted position to fall back on should the worst of fates befall us. But I have confidence in my abilities, Carthage will be held back from Sicily, and as soon as one of our fleets can dock in Syracuse, I will charge myself with the task of retaking Melite.
[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: Senator Servius Aemilius, forgive me, but it seems I am not making myself clear. It is not the three legions that are urgently required in your theatre - it is the three Lower House generals. We seem to have plenty of men - we have just thrown away 1250 of them for nothing in Melite. But generals for some reason are hard to find - you are the only one in place.
Servius, I salute your willingness to put on your manly gown early and go into the field to face Carthage. It is a brave act and one that is fitting for a true Roman. But you cannot be in three places at the same time. You cannot take Melite and at the same time guard Sicily and the Sardinia-Corsica region.
Carthage has proven herself unpredictable, I submit that we should not rely on our best guess as to her intentions but should prepare for several contingencies. But if we do want to play a guessing game, my hunch is that when she has secured Melite, she will find Sardinia-Corsica a more inviting target than a heavily defended Sicily.
{Cornelius Saturninus}
Thank you for the well wishes senators. I would just like to chime in here to remind the senators that before Gaius Rutilius was killed, he burned Melite to the ground. It may not be a crucial island for us to retake, in terms of any economic benefit to us. In fact, it may drain our economy more than it will help if we have to build it back up, garrisson it, spend resources on it. On the other hand, if Carthage holds on to it, they may be a bit too close to Sicily for comfort. Just things to keep in mind.
[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: Oh, Senator Saturninus, I had hoped to enlist you as my ally in this debate! Are there no real fighters left in the Senate! I say this not to besmirch the honour of the men I address. I know First Consul Aemilius is a brave general of supreme ability. Likewise my father-in-law Senator Verginius. And indeed, the augurs suggest great things of Senator Saturninus. But abandon Melite to the Carthaginians! What is this?
We construct a great Republic, stretching from Gaul to Byzantion. We bring the benefits of Roman law, order, roads, economic development and sanitation to thousands of Italians, Gauls, Greeks, Carthaginians, Macedonians and Thracians. These people become our responsibility. Not yet full Roman citizens, but our charges - men, women and children we have sworn to protect.
Then, when a real fight starts, when we lose 1250 men in ignominious defeat, what do we do to the people we have sworn to defend? Do we say to them: sorry, you are a burden on our treasury, you must fend for yourselves. Do we say to their conquerors: fair enough, you fought well, you keep them, they are not worth our while.
I say: No! We do not surrender an inch of our ground to the enemy. More particularly, we do not abandon any of our people to the will of aggressors or the depravations of rebel bandits. If our enemies take a province from us, we come right back for it. If they knock us down, we stand up and pummel them. If they humiliate us, we anhilate them.
Senators, I debated a similar issue over Debeltos. The majority of voices in the Senate argued that we should abandon it, perchance because they considered it not cost effective to hold. At that time, I dismissed our disagreements then as a minor matter. But I see now that I was right to argue the case for not abandoning Debeltos, because it raises a broader issue of principle.
And the issue is: what is the Republic at heart? A crude economic arrangement, managed by dessicated calculating machines, interested only in the cost and benefit? Or a body of people, bound together by common culture, ruled by men of blood and honour?
Senators, I know which vision of Rome I prefer, although I am starting to doubt which better describes the present reality.
Numerius Aureolus,
I apologize that you are aggrieved by my refusal, but I would be hardpressed to keep my credibility if I gave in to your requests. Nevertheless, command will soon transfer to my co-consul, and he may see things in a different light. I compliment you on the small number of losses in the taking of Byzantium, we are hardpressed to resupply our legion so far to the east.
I must say I wonder that first you say you grieve for Gaius Rutilus' death, and next you clamour about the 'throwing away' of the men I sent to save him.
The matter of Carthage is now in the hands of Neptune, Mars and the courage of our sailors. Soon our fleets will clash once again. If we are triumphant, we can probably save the other islands. Otherwise, we will not be able to safeguard them.
However the battle resolves, it is my opion that Carthage must be destroyed as we cannot win the war at sea in the long term.
As soon as I and my co-consul have decided on a suitable general, the Consular Army will march to Sicily. It is my hope that in the coming senate session, a year from now, the senate will decide to destroy the Republic of Carthage and we will send all our forces in Sicily on a campaign of conquest in Africa to end this threat forever.
Consul Lucius Aemilius speaks wisely. Carthage has certainly become an incredible danger and an expedition to deal with them in their homelands must be undertaken at once. If we do not, we shall find our cities besieged and our ports blockaded.
It is a great shame that Numerius Aureolus and his supporters had to provoke our current war with Ptolemy at a time when we could have used a peaceful eastern front and access to their markets. Perhaps this will teach others not to go looking for wars. They will find us soon enough.
[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: First Consul, I do not object to the reinforcing of Gaius Rutilus. However, I do question the decision to send him to Melite in the first place. Such missions are the responsibility of Senators of the Lower House. It is for that reason that I am pressing the issue of redeploying more of such men to the Southern front.
I second your call for the destruction of Carthage. But that merely strengthens my call for the redeployment of Lower House generals to the southern front. The south is where the storm is gathering.
Quote:
Originally Posted by econ21
It seems clear to me that you have surely forgotten the purpose of the republic senator. The purpose of the republic is to create a nation where Roman citizens can be represented equally, to prosper, be strong, and create for their children and their children's children a world better than the one they had. Unforetunatly, this sometimes means the elimination of another people, or the abandonment of one that cannot be saved except in the distant future. This says to me that all citizens of Rome who hold this view true are men of blood, men of honor. You seem only interested in expanding the Republic's lands, growing her military and sending more men to their deaths, deaths you have used to try and push your ideals by noting the unforetunate loss of Roman life at Melite. You follow a backwards philosophy senator.
It is also strange that you should mention common culture, while at the same time forgetting that the Republic currently embodies lands far from the heart of Roman culture and ideals. Greece, Macedon, old Carthaginian lands, sections of Gaul, Thrace, even the former southern hill tribes of Italy, the Samnites and such, followed a different culture than that of Rome. Rome is far from being a singularly cultured nation, and that is because of this blatant expansionism exhibited by yourself and others. There must be a period of cultural growth across the republic as a whole to realise what you claim Rome to be, but you do not wish to give the Republic that time to take such words into action, as the Aemilii would. My family has pushed strongly for Roman expansion to draw a breathe, to work far more significantly on infrastructure and culture, all beneficial internal growth to Rome. I cannot recall you doing anything but urging the conquering of other people.
And while we are on the subject, Roman Citizenship, right now senators that is a very, very, very limited ideal. I think it may be time to extend this right to some of our most supportive and long held provinces. I will make a motion during the next senate sessions to work towards full auxilian prefectures, a provincial barracks, and then Roman citizenship for any provinces that have been held by and proven to be loyal supporters of the Republic for the last fifteen years. The people, and most notably the children of these provinces have been thoroughly Romanized, and we all know, the future begins with the children. These lands will be the strongest supporters of Rome in the many many years to come, and they have been thus far. They deserve a reward senators, let us grant them citizenship.
A messenger arrives with word from Cornelius Saturninus.
"Ave senators, I trust all is well? I bring news of the repulsion of the Thracian force at the Danube crossing. There are a few more scattered troops around the area, a retaliation may be likely. Arapeithes the Bloody Handed also lurks near by, he may gather the seperate forces into a dangerous army. Shall I stay here at the fort or cross the Danube myself to seek out the Thracians while they are seperated and weak?"
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...3&postcount=42
Notice on the senate door :
Command is offically transferred to co-consul Publius Pansa. Kindly direct your requests and pleas to him from now on.
OCC: My report will be finished tomorrow night, kindly refrain from posting in the first consul thread untill I have posted.
OCC: As is clear from Wonderland's battle report, which I liked a lot by the way, it is best to post the legion (if you are defending) on the river crossing itself, instead of in a fort, as then you will get the benefit of defending the crossing.
*applauds*Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucjan
You are correct to point out Senator the diverse cultural, religious and ethnic make-up of our greatly expanded Republic. We are far from a homogenous whole as Numerius claims
The subject of citizenship is something I have discussed with my co-consul in private. I would welcome a debate on this in our next session. But know this Senators, it is not some cheap trinket to be passed out with gay abandon!Quote:
And while we are on the subject, Roman Citizenship, right now senators that is a very, very, very limited ideal. I think it may be time to extend this right to some of our most supportive and long held provinces. I will make a motion during the next senate sessions to work towards full auxilian prefectures, a provincial barracks, and then Roman citizenship for any provinces that have been held by and proven to be loyal supporters of the Republic for the last fifteen years. The people, and most notably the children of these provinces have been thoroughly Romanized, and we all know, the future begins with the children. These lands will be the strongest supporters of Rome in the many many years to come, and they have been thus far. They deserve a reward senators, let us grant them citizenship.
I have spoken in private with my grandfather and yourself, consul Publius Pansa, and I have come to feel that the cities of Ancona and Capua have long since deserved citizenship, and are being slighted in not receiving it. But, as you say, we must remember a careful balance, handing out citizenry like candy would only serve to destabalise the empire. It must be noted though, that Paestum and Arrettium have suffered as much as Ancona and Capua, but I feel it would be wiser to first resolve our conflicts with Carthage before extending the right to them as well. The formation of Roman heartlands outside of the city of Rome itself could only benefit the Republic.
Further more, the Republic now constitutes a realm of more than 300,000 people. Granting citizenry to Capua and Ancona now would place the Republic in a position of one roman citizen for every ten freemen or slaves. Following the resolution of our conflict with Carthage, and the granting of citizenry to Arretium and Paestum, it could be estimated to be around one citizen for every twelve to fifteen freemen or slaves. I fail to see how this could be an unfair number, and urge the senators to consider these things in the upcoming elections.
I applaud the noble initiative of my grandson, Servius Aemilius.
As you are well aware I have on several occasion praised our Italian allies, both Etruscan and Latin, for their valour in battle and for the sacrifices they were willing to make for the Republic.
It has been my privilge to lead the Legio I Italia Victrix for many years, and never have I had any occasion for complaint, on the contrary, I have been filled with pride at their achievements.
I have made a long explanation to my grandson on the importance of a balance between citizens and non-citizens in our society, which I will present again when the issue is raised during the next senate session.
His initiative has my full support.
*A messenger arrives in the Senate. He is tired, dirty, dishevelled and extremely agitated. The Speaker gives him permission to speak*
"Conscript Fathers - grave news, grave news! As you may be aware Co-Consul Publius Pansa recently took Maronia from the Ptolomites and drove their reinforcements back across the Sea of Marmara. He expected to have to hold the city against Egyptian counter-attacks, but it is not to be.
The Seleucids have crossed the straits with a massive army and laid siege to the city!
I managed to sneak through their lines to race back to Rome with this message. The assault was clearly going to be made soon, no doubt the battle has already been fought as I bring you this message. I fear it is too late to bring offerings to the Gods for a Roman victory"
[IMG]https://img175.imageshack.us/img175/...board33ts4.jpg[/IMG]
I told you so. I warned against taking lands from the Ptolemies, I warned against Debeltos, I warned against Byzantion, but it seems there are too many foolhardy men here that intelligent precautions needn't be taken when something looks appatising. It's a wonder some of you have lived this long.
Now look what we have. A war against Ptolemy, Thrace, the Seleucids, and Carthage. Did I not predict a war against four neighbors of vast territorial strength? I hope you all go home and pray tonight that Iberia does not see this blatant oppertunity and engage our western borders.
May the gods only ignore the arrogance of some and bestow their blessings on co-consul Pansa during this siege, he is not among those to be blamed, he is simply the messenger of some blind senators' wills.
My thoughts go to him at this time, twas my only wish to be able to serve the Republic as he has and will continue to do........
......curse my lack of years!
If I can help in anyway, I'd be honored.
As for now, I hope Publius manages to drive the Seleucid horde back.
:balloon2:
The honoured Senator Publius has no sturdy walls in which to deflect the attackers......if he bests the Selucids with his force, a force I have to add that does not contain enough sturdy Romans, he will be surely worthy of our highest accolades.
If he does not, I pledge, HERE AND NOW, to avenge his defeat or perish in the attempt!
The greed of Numerius Aureolus and his supporters has plunged the Republic into crisis. We are now at war with nearly every civilized nation in the known world. We have lost access to all trading ports in the entire eastern Mediterranean and we have be thrown into a war with Alexander\'s successors that will not end in any of our lifetimes. The Republic was in dire need of peace and stability and instead it has been given even greater wars and even fewer friends.
Rome will surely triumph over these enemies as we have over all others, but that does not excuse the actions of those who brought about this situation. The warmongering Numerius Aureolus has gravely injured the entire Republic for his personal gain.
I fear another Great Roman has died in combat...
From what I've read of the battle, it was lost even before it begun. That said, I find that our late Co Consul Publius Pansa did everything he could before falling in battle.
I do hope the Seleucid Empire gives him a fitting burial, and if not, then we'll have to do so as soon as possible.
Rest in peace Publius.
:balloon2:
Woe and the painful taking of one of the most notable of Roman son’s has befallen the Republic this day! This “Molon” has been marked and I pledge that I shall track him down unto HADES itself if needs be.
As soon as I am permitted to leave the Academies I request transfer to the East to face the Selucids.
[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: Senator Verginius,"I told you so" may be the fitting response of a student to a crisis, but it does not befit an ex-Consul who aspires to a second term.
I do not comprehend your attempt to blame your son-in-law for first Ptolemy's attack on us and now Seleucia's.
I surmise that Ptolemy started a war by blockading our ports. The Debeltos expedition was irrelevant - she made no approach to that settlement, even though it was abandoned as the Senate apparently willed. The motion to take Byzantion was also irrelevant - the Consuls had no interest in the city and had made no move against it.
Why Ptolemy attacked, we do not know for sure. However, it seems likely that, by occupying the Macedonian cities of Philippi, Bylazora and Ratiara, we came to border her and she viewed us as a threat. I did not hear you, Senator Verginius, or student Servius Aemilius, speak out against taking those cities.
As for Seleucia, she also attacked us for reasons quite unconnected with Debeltos and Byzantion, neither of which border her lands. It was our presence at Maronia that apparently provoked here. A presence that again was due to our driving out an enemy who had attacked us - this time Ptolemy rather than Macedon. Again I recall no one in this House speaking out against expelling Egypt from Europe once she had struck at us in such an unprovoked manner.
A Co-Consul has just died. This is not the time for politicking. Romans are not to blame for the aggression of the successor states - Ptolemy and Seleucia alone are responsible for that. Use me as your strawman all you like, Verginius, maybe a few of your followers will pretend to believe you. Until the present crisis is resolved and I have killed Molon, liberating Marona, I will not return to the Senate but attend only to my military duties.
Rest in Peace Publius.
To set the record straight, the co-consul was against the taking of Byzantium, annexing of Debeltos. Also, the Seleucids did not attack Byzantium but Maronia which we capture after the Ptolemies declared war on us, so I do not see where this is a case of warmongering among the supporters of the expedition to Debeltos. As things stands, I would probably say it is a case of us trying to maintain a defense line on the Danube and reaching that line too fast with too little force on our borders. A slower expansion, longer war with Macedons and a more massive army by the time we reached our objectives would serve better to secure the border. But this is from 20-20 hindsight and we all know that all the what ifs will achieve in real life.
So now is not the time for recrimination. The way I see it is that there should not be further expansion of our territories, recapture Maronia and fortified over the land bridge into Asia Minor. Attrition war, while building up the infrastructure of our core cities to prepare for the next round. Maybe a raid or two over the borders to set up buffer states.
That's my humble opinion until I get a fuller picture from the consul report.
(seethingly)..…we shall see how easy it is for the Selucids to cross from Asia Minor when the way is slick with their blood and choked with their rotting CORPSES!
(Manius appears red-faced and close to breaking down)
Once again the true nature of Numerius Aureolus shows itself. He is a liar who seeks nothing more than personal glory. The reason for the wars with Ptolemy and Seleucia is perfectly clear. They did not like our conquests of Debeltos and Byzantium. Numerius says that it was due to Philippi, Bylazora and Ratiara, yet after we took those cities, peace still prevailed. It was only after the other two cities were taken that these wars began.
Ignorance becomes you Numerius, but the rest of us are endowed with wits through which we determine truth by logical thought. The wars began because of Debeltos and Byzantium. Debeltos and Byzantium were taken specifically because of your desire for greed and personal glory. Much of this Senate, including myself, spoke out heavy and firmly against your vanity and against the conquest of those cities. We opposed them specifically because of the risk of war with Ptolemy and Seleucia, and yet you now try to make it seem that we supported these decisions?
Your words expose you Numerius. *YOU* will kill Molon, *YOU* will liberate Marona. You are a self-serving man who will bring nothing to the Republic but ruin. Yes, go do your duties in the battle-line. You may have value with a sword, but you are a danger to all Romans when you are in the Senate.
Numerius, I don’t care for what your motives are now and I fear that you have beguiled me in supporting you previously but….
…do what you damned want with Marona, take it, liberate it, whatever! I care nought but I want Molon!
I wish to make his empty skull into a drinking vessel and my Wife wishes his most private of parts as EAR-RINGS!!
What did I say, Senators? Long ago, it seems, I spoke out against further eastward expansion, saying that war with Ptolemy OR Egypt would be suicide. Now look where we are, at war with both Eastern powers! Gah!
The Seleucids are right across the strait and can easily send reinforcements, taking Greece if they so desire. I *would* suggest suing for peace, but these warmongers in the Senate have demanded we keep expanding the military, so our treasury is emptied!
It is time to consolidate, Conscript Fathers. Deal with the threats closer to home than tangle with the mighty heirs of Alexander. Carthage looms nearby. We should focus our military efforts on her while our economy is rebuilt. I'm sure that Senators Aureolus and Coruncanius are apt to the task of defending Greece; after all they seem to do nothing but boast of their prowess.
I can only hope my warnings are heeded next time.
Fellow Senators,
In the Future I'd like to know exact names of those particular senators who are guilty of the warmongering, just for reference.
Oh, and then we can do something about them.
I'm saying this because remarking that other senators are doing such things sounds like a cheap way of clearing oneself, and certainly we Senate members are above such shameless self promoting tactics - or aren't we ?
:balloon2:
There are no secrets about who these warmongers are. At the interim session in 258, both Numerius Aureolus and Tiberius Coruncanius specifically argued for a declaration of war against Ptolemy and the conquest of Debeltos and Byzantium, even though that risked war with Seleucia as well. Well, now they have their wars and Roman blood will flow for their pride and their poor judgment.
Of course, Augustus Verginius never called for a war against anyone. Not against the Gauls, or Iberians. No, not old, docile Verginius. Why, I specifically recall him not calling for a war against the Iberians 5 years ago when it was obvious to everyone that we'd get into a major war with Macedon soon. Frankly, he's so peace-loving, that I doubt that he could ever hurt a man. Especially not a Gaul. Why, he hugs Gallic slaves whenever he passes them in the street!
{Cornelius Saturninus}
Senators,
It is with a grave heart I write this letter from my encampent along the Danube. The situation here is stable, only a small group of Thracians loom across the river, but the moral of the men is faltering due to the insurmountable odds we are facing with this new war with the Seleucids. I am keeping them as happy and confident as I can, but something must be done about this situation. They are clamoring to leave this fort and head east, to take on the bastards who killed the great Publius Pansa and destroyed Legio IV. However, I believe a quick peace with both the Ptolemies and Seleucids is necessary, or at least one or the other. Of course, if that does not come to pass, I am ready and willing to move in and take on the Seleucid aggressors. I had our agent in Maronia, Asinius Sergius, send me a report on Molon. Senators, he is not someone to scoff at.
https://img341.imageshack.us/img341/1674/molongp7.jpg
Molon, conqueror of Maronia, killer of Publius Pansa, destroyer of Legio IV.
https://img387.imageshack.us/img387/9623/sarmyqw0.jpg
Molon's army, or what's left of it after the battle. A large Seleucid army is reported to be coming from just across the channel however.
I fear our Republic is spiraling into destruction and dismay. The death of our second Consul in as many years is a tragedy indeed, but also a sign of our misguided ways. I pray to the Gods we will make the right choices in the upcoming years and restore stability to our great nation.
Cornelius Saturninus
The remaining consul, Lucius Aemilius, enters the senate in mourning dress...
Conscript fathers,
I have just been informed of the dramatic events that occured in the East. Given the state of the nation, I am forced to ask you to give me the power of a Dictator for the remainder of my term. I am aware that this exceeds the regulatory six months, but I ask you to ignore this fact in view of our current situation.
The death of my dear friend and co-consul Publius Pansa, coming so short after the death of my previous collegae Amulius Coruncanius, has saddened me deeply. This grief is only worsened by the loss of the Legio IV Gallica Firma. Roma is in mourning. I, myself, am in mourning.
Aside from the powerful nation of Iberia, we are now at war with all our neighbours. I see the senate in turmoil, now in addition to our current conflicts we have become involved in a war with the two most powerful nations of the East, and all lay the blame for this with others.
Frankly, my fellow senators, the question of blame has become irrelevant and is ultimately to be laid at the door of the agressors. I will disregard these squabbles and spell out our current situation to you.
We are in serious trouble on our Eastern frontier as we were already overexpanded there, and with the loss of the Legio IV Gallica Firma we do not even have enough troops to hold on to what we have. We have no troops to spare on our other frontiers, but reinforcements will depart Roma for Greece immediately. The new Consular Army will stay put however. We must not react to our enemies moves, otherwise we will lose the initiative. Combined with this military disaster, the loss of trade with the Ptolemaic and the Seleucid empire is hurting us very hard. We might not win this conflict due to lack of courage of our soldiers, but trough lack of money to pay for their food.
There is little to be done, but rest assured I will do it. Some of my actions may prove unpopular with the senators who lack a good grasp on reality, but I urge you all to put aside your squabbles and present the Roman people with a united front. Already, on my way here, I saw people loading their furniture on carts and preparing to flee to the hills. When I asked them about this madness, they told me the senate was panicking. I deplore you to regian your composure, gentlemen. This current lack of gravitas is severely upsetting our people.
Now, I beg your leave, as it appears I will have to teach a horse to sing
[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: I said I would remain silent for a while, but I did not expect Senator Verginius to go so far as calling me a liar on the floor of the Senate. Now I must defend my honour. Sometime ago, Senator Verginius challenged those who besmirched his honour to a duel. It is an interesting precedent. If applied in this case, it might have the unfortunate side effect of leaving our army facing Seleucia leaderless. Alternatively, it might have the benefit of relieving Rome of ever having to endure another term under the rule of the good Senator. It is certainly an option to ponder.
Apparently, my "lie" is my interpretation of why Ptolemy and Seleucia attacked us. Quite how such an interpretation can be a lie, I do not know. Does Senator Verginius believe I have spoken to the rulers of Ptolemy and Seleucia about their motives, but misrepresented them here? I suspect the Senator is claiming my interpretation is false, rather than knowingly false but then care with words is apparently not the man's strong suite, as shown by his spurious arguments over recent Senate motions.
Senator Verginius's "argument" is that our bordering with Egypt could not have been the motive for their attack because they waited two years before striking us. By the same "logic" we could say that our conquest of Melite was not the motive for Carthage's recent invasion because they waited even longer! Furthermore, Senators, remember - we occupied Debeltos in Spring 257. According to the First Consul's report, Ptolemy waited until Spring 256 to strike us. She waited a whole year. Hardly a close conjunction of events. The fact that she ignored an abandoned and undefended Debeltos when she did attack suggests that it was of little concern to her.
On the matter of Seleucia's declaration of war, not even the fig leaf of temporal ordering covers Verginius's conjectures. Byzantion and Maronia fell the same season, this Spring. The next season Seleucia attacked Maronia, which bordered her, and not Byzantion, which did not. Quite how the Senator infers from these events that Byzantion was the spark for war, I know not.
Members of the Lower House all have access to seers and augurs who foretell the future. I say to them, if you believe my interpretation is wrong and Senator Verginius's to be right, consult them. Look at the signs and portents made in previous years. What do they tell us about the consequences of our actions? I am confident they will confirm that if we had not taken Debeltos and if we had not taken Byzantion, but still taken Philippi and Maronia, we would still have been attacked by Ptolemy and Seleucia.
Senators, it is a harsh world we live in. Any faction we border seems inevitably to seek war with us sooner or later. That Iberia has not yet done so may be just because we have only recently shared a border with her. Remember Senators, we had a land border with Ptolemy before we had one with Iberia. I doubt any of our men stationed in Gaul sleep easy.
So much for Senator Verginius's charge that I am a liar. Now I wish to raise a specific falsehood he himself has uttered. He says that I argued for war with Egypt in the last session of Senate. Senators, consult the record! Show me where in the transcript I argued thus! For if I did call for war, it is curious that I did not second Motion 10.15 which authorised a declaration of war with Egypt.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...10&postcount=1
I will, however, hear no criticism of Senator Coruncanius - his prediction of the inevitability of war with Egypt has been proved right, as has been his older call for us to take the war to Carthage while she was weak.
So far, the fates have been less kind to Senator Marcellus Aemilius and his motion 10.14 calling for war with Iberia. If he had gotten his way, we would have been attacked by four neighbouring powers (Carthage, Thrace, Seleucia and Ptolemy), while ourselves attacking the last (Iberia). In such an event, what, exactly, I wonder, does he propose we would then have "consolidated"?!
Still, I suppose I must be charitable to Marcellus. As I say, we live in a harsh world, and there is still time for Iberia - like Macedon, Thrace, Illyria, Ptolemy and Seleucia - to turn on us despite our doing nothing whatsoever against them. In the event of such a further act of infamy, I hope all Senators in this House will have the dignity and decency not to make good Romans the scapegoats for the perfidy and aggression of our enemies!
Really now, Aureolus. Do not consider yourself blameless.
No offensives have been directed at Philippi, and Maronia was originally Ptolemaic. Of course if we had taken Maronia we would have been attacked! Ptolemy would now be at war at us because of this action!Quote:
I am confident they will confirm that if we had not taken Debeltos and if we had not taken Byzantion, but still taken Philippi and Maronia, we would still have been attacked by Ptolemy and Seleucia.
So by your logic Ptolemy attacked us because we border her. Specifically, settlements that you have taken border her.Quote:
Senator Verginius's "argument" is that our bordering with Egypt could not have been the motive for their attack because they waited two years before striking us. By the same "logic" we could say that our conquest of Melite was not the motive for Carthage's recent invasion because they waited even longer!
I'm afraid logic rules out here. Action - we take cities that border Ptolemy and Seleucia. Consequence - we are at war with Ptolemy and Seleucia.Quote:
Look at the signs and portents made in previous years. What do they tell us about the consequences of our actions?
10.14 was proposed back in the interim session, when Debeltos and Byzantion had yet to be taken! The motion was meant to designate Iberia as the primary military target of the Republic while we maintained our borders in the east. Had my motion passed and your eastern motions failed (which was the goal) we would not have had that problem, and you would currently be clamoring to be sent to Iberia where the action would be.Quote:
So far, the fates have been less kind to Senator Marcellus Aemilius and his motion 10.14 calling for war with Iberia. If he had gotten his way, we would have been attacked by four neighbouring powers (Carthage, Thrace, Seleucia and Ptolemy), while ourselves attacking the last (Iberia). In such an event, what, exactly, I wonder, does he propose we would then have "consolidated"?!
I will gladly accept a duel if you would like one Numerius.
Many more falsehoods have been created in this latest speech. First, I shall start by recounting from the scrolls your call for war with Ptolemy.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=544Quote:
Originally Posted by NUMERIUS AUREOLUS
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=580Quote:
Originally Posted by NUMERIUS AUREOLUS
Surely you will not claim that these statements advocated peace with our neighbors. Pah, more lies from you. Shall I recount your own blatant lies to Publius Pansa as well?
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...8&postcount=38Quote:
Originally Posted by NUMERIUS AUREOLUS
I will not claim your actions were wrong in disobeying the Consul on this matter, but you lied in a situation where the truth was your friend. If you cannot be trusted to uphold Roman virtues even when they are your aid, how can we expect you to abide by them when they obstruct your way?
Your other arguments are transparent. You cannot hide the fact that war with Ptolemy erupted after we eliminated his last enemy in Europe. Nor can you hide the fact that war with Seleucia began only after we shared a border with him; the border itself being the direct result of your legislation and urge for eastward expansion.
Act like a true Roman Numerius and drop these pretenses. If my accusations are false, you should be so outraged at such an improper insult to your honor that you would not back down from a duel. Yet I see you hesitate even now, what does that say about you?
I will not allow my generals to fight each other while there are several wars on !
In spite of your many differences, both of you are good generals and I need you alive. You may satisfy your honour when the Temple of Janus closes their doors. If you feel you must contest, play a mock combat on Mars field instead.
You are not exactly inspiring the confidence of our citizens in our military, turning on each other while enemies cross our borders. For shame !
Conscript fathers,
It seems that this senate is as divided as it has ever been, saving ones dignitas and honor seems to be more of an issue than driving the Seleucid, Thracian, Ptolmaic and Carthaginian hordes out of this world. Our enemy's must be mightily pleased, I bet their agents are sitting around enjoying our brothels and foods while we do their work for them, on the senate floor itself !
Good to know it is, that our esteemed senators Numerius and Verginius are willing to have a duel - yes a duel ! - at the time when our eastern front is being over-run, our co consul has died and our enemy's are more powerful than ever !
Good to know that such people wield so much influence at this moment of crisis!
What am I trying to say, one might ask ?. Well it should be clear, I urge the senators Verginius, Numerius and even Aemilius to put aside their petty arguments - for that is what they are in light of the current events - and join forces to humiliate our enemy's as we did Pyrrhus years before !
Is this so much to ask, Senators ?
For the people, the legions, and the Republic I for one hope it is not...
:balloon2:
[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: Do not worry, First Consul and Senator Flavius Pacuvius, I have no intention of duelling Senator Verginius. He is game enough, but I fear at his age he may do himself an injury and my dear wife Lucilla, his daughter, would never forgive me if that happened.
I must, however, parry the latest verbal thrusts taken at my good name. The charges that I am personally responsible for the declarations of war on us by Egypt and Seleucia are made no less objectionable by the fact that I am currently tasked with guarding the exposed part of our Republic. I cannot let the accusations reach the ears of my men without them first being exposed for the ignorant and hyperbolic rants they are.
Senator Marcellus Aemilius seeks to strike the first renewed blow against me. I see that you are unbecoming of any charity from me. If you aspire one day to lead this Republic, you really should keep up with current events.
Let me make this simple for you. Of course, an offensive was directed at Philippi. It was led by the late Co-Consul Publius Pansa while the town was held by Macedon in Spring 258. I led an offensive against Debeltos, also held by Macedon, in Spring 257. The former offensive - along with those at Ratiaria and Bylazora - led us to border Ptolemy. I submit that it was the creation of a land border that ultimately led to Ptolemy's declaration of war in Spring 256. Debeltos came later and so was irrelevant to the fatal creation of a land border - we already had one. As I say, all Lower House members have the otherworldly means to test this. We need not debate it further here.
Nor will I argue at length with you about Seleucia as you seem incapable of maintaining two distinct arguments in your head. You confuse the reasons for war with Seleucia and Ptolemy. I only mentioned Maronia as a possible casus belli with Seleucia, not with Ptolemy. Suffice it to say, our only land border with Seleucia was not due to any settlement I have taken (Byzantion borders Greek held land, not Seleucid). Rather, the border was at Maronia which was taken by Co-Consul Publius Pansa.
As to my oldest accuser, Senator Verginius, I thank you for finding my words and reading them aloud so all the Senate can hear that they did not call for war with Egypt.
The first quote merely foretells the lightning offensive we did conduct to drive Egypt from Europe after she so pefidiously - but so predictably - attacked us.
The second quote, about Byzantion, was also prescient. Do you deny that the two successor states, now both at war with us, combine to pose a greater challenge than Carthage or Thrace? And if they do, is not walled Byzantion the best pace to hold them? Or would you have them freely ranging inland to Tylis, Ratiara, Bylazora and beyond? And if we wish first to consolidate, to deal with Carthage, the natural place to hold the successor states at bay is at the Bosphorus straits. You do not quote it, but I vaguely recall making an analogy between the straits and the Massilia ford. If I did not, I should do so now - we may hold the east at bay across the straits for many years, much as we did the Gauls across the Massilia ford. That is why retaking Maronia is the first step to restoring our position in the East. But Byzantion is by far the stronger half of the line.
Thank you also, Senator Verginius, for reading stories of my victories, I am flattered by your interest. But please you must remember not to believe everything you read.
Out of respect for my friend Lucius Aemlius, I shall refrain from further comments on this matter until the present danger has past. However, I will only hold my tongue so long as Senator Aureolus pursues a course of action that will aid in stabilizing our fractured borders. If he once again tries to further stretch our resources or create further wars, not even Jupiter himself will be able to silence me.
[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: I am grateful to Senator Verginius for his forebearance. If Senator Marcellus Aemilius wishes to return to the argument - he may take a free punch at me; I will not retaliate. I too will consider this matter closed for now; I really must get back to the front.
Cornelius Saturninus is right - the situation there is even more severe than one might imagine. Maronia is not within a season's march of Byzantion and so avenging the Co-Consul will not be easily achieved. We must trust to the strategic brilliance of our First Consul and the fighting spirit of our men to see us through this crisis.
Senators of the Republic,
I have rested and regained my composure but it is true that I will not forget the death of such a Hero of Rome, one whom I looked up to and admired as a personal Hero for many years.
However, I agree that the remaining Co-Consul shall take full Consulship as of now and for the remainder of his term. I believe his used of the term “Dictator” is somewhat misguided.
Has anyone considered withdrawal? If the Consul AND notable members of the Senate believe we are overstretched what shame is there then in withdrawing to a point more defensible?
It is, perhaps, the last of all options but one I firmly believe we should allow the Consul to do should he feel it is required.
Please Senators let the Consul hear your voice on this matter, he must know that even such a distasteful act as withdrawing is still acceptable in a dire situation as this.
Currently it is good that we have a Consular army awaiting deployment and I agree that it should stay in Italia until we know more of the Carthenaginian intent as well as the Selucids. However, I strongly feel that WHATEVER the cost we will have to raise two more Legions to support the Eastern Front even if we do withdraw from the current predicament.
If we can, it would be prudent to re-enforce Byzantion if possible, it is a defensible city with high walls and potentially can withstand an assault by an enemy more than twice the defenders numbers, however, I am unaware of what infrastructure is in place there. It would be essential at this time though to hire as many mercenaries as is possible before the Selucids arrive.
I would dearly love to review the tactical situation to the South in more detail also, what is happening in Melite now? How fairs the Legion in Sicily, are they ready for Carthage?
It saddens me to see the situation develop into what it has. And even more so to see that those responsible will not accept the consequences of their poor foresight.
After careful thought, I care not for what has led us up to this event, I can only say what I feel must be done now.
I will no longer listen to the foolish words of an ignorant madman. My own father, Manius Aemilius, has more sense and wisdom than the bloodlusted and logicless Numerius Aureolus. I dare call that man a coward and a thief. As only cowards would not accept responsability for the consequences their actions bring, and only thieves would steal a dark moment such as this in an attempt to divide the senate. I do not care what personal gain Aureolus had or has to hold Byzantium or to have taken Debeltos, but send him there. Send him to Byzantion. Let him wallow in the mess he has created.
In the meantime, I suggest the Republic take a serious breath. We have overexpanded beyond the limits of our own ability to maintain a military supply line, to support our territories monetarily, to trade profitably, and to defend Rome as a whole.
I would advocate the serious consideration of territorial withdrawel. Let Numerius hold Byzantion till his dieing days if he wishes, but the Republic must consolidate its gains. My personal advisors and I have discussed this in length, and we feel that the best course for a withdrawal would involve maintaining the Roman frontier of Gergovia and Comata in the west, holding Luvavum in the north, and making a full, uncompromised withdrawal in the east to create a new, more defensable frontier. A new eastern frontier consisting of Aquilaia, Segestica, Delmatia, Skodra, Antigonea, Appollonia and Thermon would provide the Republic a much more defensible, if not greatly reduced, frontier in the east. After the infrastructure and internal defense capabilities of the Republic are significantly increased on a widespread scale could we hope to reclaim the abandoned territory, if that is still the wish of the senate at such a time.
I have made many, many proposals over my short time as a senator, and the vast majority of them, in hindsight, would have saved the Republic many defeats, many disgraces, and many Roman lives. But unforetunatly the greed of certain men would not allow my proposals to acquire enough support. Perhaps now, with disaster after disaster befalling Rome due to the ill judgement of these men, things may be seen in a different light by those who are still unsure of their position. I know where I stand. Rome must consolidate, it must rebuild the armies, it must provide a solid frontier, it must restore trade, it must greatly increase its infrastructure, it must become profitable and a source of pride for its people again.
....because Rome as a whole has spent far too long in desperate wars. We have spent far too long leaving peace at the mercy of our neighbors. We may be forced to defend our borders, but we are not forced to cause our people the same suffering our soldiers endure in the peoples' name. Open your eyes to logic. Mars is not the only god. There are many gods who Rome could be glorious in its worship of as well, and these gods are gods of peace.
Senator Servius Aemilius,
What exasperates our situation is that to date, none of those neighbours around us have accepted ANY motions of Peace.
Long and hard have our diplomats worked and only very recently have we managed to secure some form of agreement with another nation…..that of Germainia.
Whilst your call for peace is a prudent and needed one, I have to say that even at my young age I am jaded with the diplomatic situation around us and do not hold any hope for a negotiated ceasefire of any sort, even if we DO withdraw and leave an unoccupied buffer between ourselves and the Selucids.
They have smelt our blood and I do not believe they will relinquish, what they perceive is an advantage of military might.
However, your call for Senator Numerius Aureolus to be posted to Byzantion finds a place in my heart. Whatever has caused our Republic to reach this stage is immaterial and many blame Senator Aureolus…….personally, I do not, the vote was open…and the Senate voted.
Hind-sight leads us to place blame but the true blame lays with ALL those who voted in truth. That said, with Senator Aureolus’s insistence that he will be most capable against the Selucids, I agree with you and also call that if possible, he be sent to hold Byzantion at any cost!
If he can draw the attention of the giant, then we may yet have time to rebuild our legions and develop our cities so we can secure a more defensible frontier in the East.
The trouble is that we are in peril not only in the East but also from the direction of Thrace AND Carthage. Whilst I feel we can deal with Carthage aggression swiftly as they are closer to us the situation to our North East and East is a difficult one to rectify.
This will not occur over night and if Senator Aureolus can buy the Republic sufficient time to do this, then perhaps he will have redeemed himself in the eyes of his accusers?
Let it not be said though that I blame him, nor that I have forgotten that the Selucids have…..unprovoked…..taken a personal hero from me. I will have my flesh from the Selucids backs one day….but I have grown to understand I have a great many years ahead of me to do this.
[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: Senators, I would like to share with you some private correspondence I perhaps should have revealed earlier, although I fear it would have been lost amid in the recriminations.
Immediately upon hearing of the outbreak of the battle of Maronia, I despatched a messenger to Co-Consul Publius Pansa, in my arrogance presuming to give him tactical advice on the battle. Unfortunately, my rider arrived too late and the reply I received came not from the now dead Co-Consul, but from his killer, General Molon.
It read:
Perhaps the Senate will share the shock, revulsion and outrage I felt upon hearing this message. If Senator Verginius detected a note of vanity in my declaring that I would kill Molon and I would liberate Maronia, perhaps he will now understand that I was sorely provoked by this thing, Molon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mount Suribachi aka "Molon"
But Senators, after long and careful reflection, I have decided that my initial reaction was right. I must immediately march on Maronia with Legio V to challenge the Seleucid invaders. Moreover, I will need every man I can find and so should abandon Byzantion completely.
Surely there is no Senator in this House who does not now understand that there are two gates - landbridges - from Asia Minor to Europe. One is at Maronia; the other at Byzantion. It serves us nothing to keep one gate closed, if the enemy can freely walk through the other. Legio V is too small to both garrison unruly Byzantion and confront the Seleucids. Therefore, the city must be left to its own devices. Perhaps the best outcome would be for it to rebel. Alternatively, it may fall to the Greeks who oppose it across the straits. It matters not.
What matters now is that the current Seleucid breach of the straits be plugged. If it is not, within a season, multiple Seleucid armies will flood through into Europe, threatening our settlements at Philippi, Bylazora, Ratiaria, Debeltos and Tylis. Once they are out in the open, we will not be able to cover all our territory and we will be exposed.
I am the man to try to plug the breach. Not because I am the best man, but because I am the only man. Praetor Coruncanius is the next closest at Tylis, but he is too far away from Maronia and needed to confront Thrace to the north. Legio V is the only formation close enough and free to confront Seleucia. And I am the only general who is close enough to lead Legio V.
Senators, I have communicated the above to the First Consul. I have requested that I be sent to the plains outside Maronia, there to await the attack of General Abscanthius or General Molon or both. The First Consul has not replied and I will acquiesce to his decision regardless. But I make this statement so that the Senate can better understand the current crisis.
Lucius, it seems like you have passed up an opportunity to engage the Seleucids in an open field battle south of Tylis. Ok, fine, but if I end up having to dislodge a large number of the bastards from a city, you owe me five bottles of the finest wine!
Their numbers were too great for even your legendary skill. I am hoping they will take the city, split up and leave a garrison. Then we will turn the tables and attack them with a Consular-strength army. Let's see how they like those figs :2thumbsup:
I have corrected the remaining errors in my last reports. I still await news of tribune Quintus Libo.
It appears Quintus Libo has won a legendary victory! I await with anticipation news of how he pulled off such a remarkable feat.
Firstly Senators, I have to report that I am very happy to have left my education and I am able to now serve the Republic in a fuller capacity as a Governor.
Now, has Quintus Libo won against the Selucids? If so, this is great news as my studies indicated that they will be our greatest foe by far.
Numerius Aureolus, I would not be happy should Byzantion be abandoned. Much was vaunted prior to its occupation and much invested in that venture. Whilst I understand your appraisal of the tactical situation I am not so convinced that what you propose is the best recourse, the Consul has been working hard these few past seasons and whilst we cannot oppose the Selucids just yet, I feel we now have the groundings that will allow us to do so very soon and that we have more time than you advise.
You advise that there are too bridges across the straits but propose to abandon one of them?? Surely it would make tactical sense to remain stationed where one such bridge exists so that the other commanders and the Consul will know where the next threat will come from?
[NUMERIUS AUREOLUS]: Your words are wise, Senator Manius Coruncanius. As you will gather from the First Consul's report and the accounts of my battles, when I last spoke, the First Consul had already decided that the time was not right to confront the Seleucids around Maronia. Instead, Legio V remains based at Byzantion, securing the city while also capable of acting aggressively.
Praetor Coruncanius and Cornelius Saturnius are moving to drive the Seleucids away from Tylis. If our sea blockade of the straits had been effective, I would have welcomed the opportunity to retake Maronia. However, with the Seleucids still capable of crossing over from Asia, Legio V will probably have to remain guarding Byzantion until the situation has stabilised.
We will have to see if the Seleucids continue to rely on the Maronia landbridge to enter Europe or whether they try to also take the Byzantion one. Needless to say, Legio V is ready for them if they try to take the city.
I agree Senator Aureolus,
Maronia is untenable at this time but I feel that a strongly placed Legion as you are will be better served in Byzantion as it continues to channel the Selucids into and through a knonw location - somewhere they can be ambushed and encounted on our terms.
Congratulations are in order for your Raid by the way. I have no favour of burning settlements but both our current lack of funds and the actions of the Selucids left us no option. It was a shame we were not in a position to fully commit to a blockade that would have meant that devil-dog Molon was isolated.
Perhaps it might be tactically prudent to do the same again once we have legions in place to fully close the Maronia land-bridge as the straits are a very defensible border.
Senators,
I know I have not been in attendance as much as I would have liked but have I missed something here?
I was recently and briefly in “command” of the new Consular army, Legio II Sabina Quintia, and I heard from many in that army that they were to embark shortly for Afrika.
Have we had this discussed? I realise that certain tactical nuances are the pre-occupation of the Consul but isn’t a full scale invasion of a major landmass something that would have been normally discussed in the Senate?
Really, I ask the main question: Is this to be an invasion of occupation or a “raid”?
With our Eastern flank so pressed wouldn’t a Consular army be better deployed to that theatre of war and a Legion size army be assigned to “raid” Carthenaginian North Afrika?
Senator Coruncanius, when there are consular sized Carthaginian armies in Melite and Sardinia, and our information relays that there are no less than an additional 10,000 active, and mobile Carthaginian soldiers in Afrika, moving the second Consular army to the east would not mean perhaps the loss of one or two cities whose conquest was ill-thought to begin with, as the current situation with the Seleucids and Byzantion goes. It would place the entire western half of the Republic in dire circumstances. Need I remind you that Rome is in the west, not the east. The second consular army is required in the west. To send it abroad would be the death knell of Rome. Now I don't know about you senator, but I will not be the one to blow that horn.
We need armies, Senators. In order to raise sufficient armies for the wars on all our fronts, we will require vast sums of money. Money that has now been denied to us by the lack of trade with Seleucia and Ptolemy. The armies will bleed themselves to death in victory if we cannot restore the Republic to internal prosperity. Yet, Rome no longer has the resources with which to provide this domestic development. The cities of Carthage are close and their wealth is vast. A strike into the heart of the Punic lands will cripple one foe and give us the means with which to defeat all of the others. We must take Carthage and use her wealth towards victory in the East.
A messenger enters the senate and slips quietly through to senator Servius, presenting him with a message and swiftly taking leave. Servius stands.
Forgive me, but it seems I must attend to some urgent personal business.
At that, he dismisses himself from the senate proceedings, but not before ordering the guards to allow messengers bearing his seal into the senate floor.
{Cornelius Saturninus}
Senators, indeed we need gold to fill our war chest as our current economic situation is desperate to say the least. But I fear a full scale invasion and occupation of Africa would be a disaster. In order to successfully organize and complete a campaign of that magnitude, we need a large surplus to begin with. The deserts are a harsh and unforgiving place, I fear our men and leaders are not used to them and can be taken advantage of by the Carthaginians. As already pointed out, they have tens of thousands of troops just waiting for a few foolish legions to come into their grasp.
Mark my words noble Senators of Rome, any general and army under him we send to Africa with the intention of conquering the whole of the place and occupying it, will never return.
Instead, I propose an alternative. Instead of trying to conquer all their cities, sending our legions on a futile campaign through the vast deserts on overly long, hard, exhausting marches where they will be isolated and destroyed, let us concentrate our forces and only take a few key Carthaginian cities. Utica, Carthago, Hadrumentum and Thapsus are our best targets; coastline cities, bring in more wealth than the hovels deep in the desert, and can be more easily defensed and reinforced.
https://img420.imageshack.us/img420/...nvasionef1.jpg
Numbered in order of priority for our initial invasion.
These cities and their surrounding provinces have all the resources we could need, and well established roads and ports to transport them and generate wealth.
After having established a secure foothold and replenishing our forces as necessary, we can look towards expansion if we feel the need to do so. Hippo Regius would be the next good target at this point. Perhaps we could take Lepcis Magna as well, but I fear it is too isolated for our own good, and may not even be worth it in terms of production and income. I see Servius Aemilius is on his way there, and would urge the Consul to reconsider this action. It would be more prudent to send a fresh legion into the more heavily defensed heart of the north-east Carthaginian provinces.
https://img420.imageshack.us/img420/...pansiondw2.jpg
Possible further expansion towards Hippo Regius. Lepcis Magna, a more dangerous gamble.
Senators, I urge you all to listen to reason here. There is no point in sending our men further into the desert than necessary, at least not right from the get go. We must first take their coastline, and be able to hold on to it. We should leave thier north-western coastline open however, to give them incentive to escape our coming wrath and perhaps mount an invasion into Iberia. In any case, the plan I've outlined will likely give us the gold we need to continue our existence as the most powerful nation on earth.
Bear in mind, we need many men to be able to occupy even just the area I've mentioned. The Carthaginian retaliation will be swift and heavy-handed. We must be prepared.
I fully concur with Cornelius Saturninus, we must be very careful in this venture. We must sieze the jewels of their cities and milk all we can from them in slaves, silver, and resources. Let us take Carthago, Utica, Hadrumentum, Thapsus, and perhaps Hippo Regius. We shall put Carthago herself to the sack and spoils will be vast indeed. The rest we shall enslave and all we shall occupy. These are not poor Gallic provinces to be plundered and abandoned. These are rich territories that will benefit their owners greatly in the long-run.
We must gather all the forces we can for this attack. The East must be given the men necessary to maintain borders, but all surpluses must be immediately allocated to landing two full Consular sized armies in Africa within seasons of one another. Only with two full forces of this size can we hope to conquer and hold these territories. One may strike west along the coast and the other south. In this way they will support each others' flanks and protect the inner cities of Carthago and Hadrumentum from attack. Even if those cities are besieged, their walls can hold for long enough for the main force to return for their rescue. In this way, two armies under two generals could take and hold all the resources necessary to bring victory in the East.
{Cornelius Saturninus}
I appreciate your support noble Verginius, however I don't believe only two legions are sufficient to hold the East. I am currently near the hot zone and have reports of large armies looming ahead. I believe at least three full legions are necessary, maybe an oversized one too. Four legions holding the fort in the east would be perfect if we had the resources, in a perfect world. But of course I understand we are pressed for money and men so three would be sufficient. As already noted, we need to send all the men we can to be successful in Afrika.
I fully agree with what Cornelius Saturninus and Verginius have said, one thing, however, worries me. I would like the exact details of what we're up against, up to the last Carthaginian Peasant. Is there any chance we could order our agents to infiltrate the Carthaginian troop recruiting settlements? Or for that matter all the settlements which we hope to take ?
I'm of the opinion that we aren't using our agents enough and to their maximum ability. We should sabotage their military buildings and temples, take out their generals and captains before a fight, and make our spies brief us of our enemies strength and troop location. Spying, Sabotage and assassination may not be the most honorable way to wage a war, but if we put our Roman agents to work who knows how many lives we could save ?
:balloon2:
Cornelius Saturninus, those were my thoughts exactly. Not only are those cities close, they are Carthage's most important. Once these are taken, it will not take much to hold them since Carthage's main source of income will have been captured. This plan permentatly cripples Carthage, keeps our forces out of the desert, and provides the much needed income.
As seen with Gaul, factions that are not finished completely will re-emerge at some point. In this case, if we drive the Carthaginians off the coast they will be far from finished. If we are not careful, Senators, we could be facing a situation worse than Massilia Ford in a number of years.
In this case, I think a two-stage attack would be most prudent. Meaning that we first knock out the cities on the coast such as Carthago and Utica. Once they are ours, we pause from conquering. Pacify our conquests, and Romanize them, while still keeping our forces in the region. Then, after this has been done, send the legions to conquer the rest of the cities in the desert and finish off the Carthaginians.
Regarding the placement of my nephew Servius and his legion, I believe that Lepcis Magna was chosen for the precise reason that some senators are complaining about it - it is far away from the main body of Carthaginians. I believe that this expedition was designed to cause some movement in the forces west of Carthago, drawing them east and thus making it an easier time for the main force which is to eventually land.
To clarify, Senators, I do not propose sending two legions. I propose sending two full sized Consular armies; forces as large as logistics allow us to maintain in one body. We already have one fully formed and ready in Italy and a second is being fast created. Yes, Carthage has many men in arms, but we will be able to face their armies on equal terms. Though they outnumber us, proper strategic movements should allow us to engage and destroy each of their formations individually.
It is certainly a risk, but it is one worth taking. If we are to make an expedition to Africa at all, it must take such a prize to ensure our victory in the East. Only minor plunder will simply be a waste of men and resources that could be better diverted elsewhere. We must strike decisively or we must not strike at all.
{Cornelius Saturninus}
Senators, I write to you from Tylis. Yes, it is once again in our hands. The people are subdued and happy after the battle, but a small garrisson could not hurt. I hope word reaches Consul Aemilius soon so that I may be on my way from here and take on the real menace from the east, Molon.
Senators, it seems there are many questions presented here and I would like to add my thoughts to each one…..
Senator Servius Aemilius,
Whilst I agree that we need a force in the West to defend our homes, I was questioning the Consuls proposal for that “defending force” to be sent out to Afrika.
As you state “To send it abroad would be the death knell of Rome”, if you stand by those words then the Consular army embarked would remain in Rome. Does not Carthage count as “abroad”?
My position is that I do not wish to see a Consular army unused; however, I feel that the Selucids are the greater military threat.
Senator Augustus Verginius,
I have to fully agree with you, a concentrated strike at the heartlands of Carthage will enable us to have slaves for population and funds for building much needed infrastructure. My main point was that such a large undertaking would normally have been previously discussed in the Senate.
I grow alarmed at the Consuls use of the word “Dictator” and that he was appearing to take the title to heart.
Also, can we be sure we can cripple Carthage by taking these cities? What do our spies say of the Carthenaginian forces posted further afield, could they be used to retake their cities?
Senator Cornelius Saturninus,
I also agree with your tactical assessment. If we are to invade and both cripple Carthage as well as line our treasury, we must concentrate on their most profitable and developed cities.
The two main ones are even Walled cities, Carthago and Hadrumentum, which means that when the Carthage reprisal starts we will have sturdy defence from which to withstand the storm that will come.
From the Maps presented by you their cities seem excessively UN-defended. I find this strange and perhaps worrying….where are their armies?
Senator Augustus Verginius,
I partly agree with your proposed tactics, strike and take several key cities and sack Carthago…..however, I would perhaps only hold Utica, Thapsus and Hippo Regius until the situation calls for our forces to withdraw. Withdraw to Hadrumentum perhaps.
Obviously ONLY if the Carthenaginians manage to mobilise fully against us. In that situation I would think it prudent for the Consul to withdraw to a more concentrated area and perhaps even into the Walled City.
Senator Cornelius Saturninus,
On your second point, this is why I was alarmed about the mobilisation of the Consular army to the West rather than the East. We NEED more men in the East more desperately than the West.
My own tactical analysis indicates that we require FOUR Legions in the East PLUS an occupying force in Byzantion – Two legions to the North East to secure our frontier with Thrace and two MOBILE legions to strike effectively against the Selucids, these can be re-enforced from Byzantion when required, hence the requirement of the occupying force.
We could make do with three IF the Thracians remain coo-coo’d and unwilling to venture against us in force.
Senator Flavius Pacuvius,
Agreed; we have an experienced spy in the area and we need more information. Whilst the garrisons appear small I am particularly worried as to the were-abouts of the vast number of Carthenginian forces and how long it would take them to respond to an invasion.
It will take TWO seasons as a minimum to storm a walled City. IF we land TWO Consular armies right next to Carthago and Hadrumentum it will be two seasons until we can take them and be safe behind their walls.
Are the Carthage armies more than two seasons march away?
If we propose to take the other cities which are unwalled we will require even more time before the enemy reacts.
This is a dangerous game but if we only take those two main cities I would consider such an expedition a success.
Senator Marcellus Aemilius,
On your comparison to Gaul; I agree with you also, though I do not believe the Consul considers a time that we will be able to withdraw our forces from Afrika. Senators, understand this that IF this invasion goes ahead we will have opened a new front AND those forces we send will NOT be returning for many, many years. It is also quite possible that should we move to Lepcis Magna we will further encounter the Egyptians!
Consider this carefully and understand the FULL commitment we are making in the long term.
Senator Augustus Verginius,
And finally, I believe that we do need a full TWO Consular armies to perform this task BUT I also believe what has been proposed is too much.
A Consular army is already embarked…..will they remain in danger, in their ships, awaiting the 2nd Consular army?
I firmly believe that we DO need two forces to strike at Carthage however, those two forces can be smaller IF they are placed correctly.
If we can land in or near the bay of Carthago two forces can strike and take both Carthago and Hadrumentum in Two seasons. Then I believe the situation should be re-assessed.
We can plan now to take more settlements, utterly cripple the Carthenginians BUT to plan too far is inherently wrong Sir!
We need, nay must, strike at Carthage and strike hard but we must also consider that their great forces will not stand by whilst we move further. A quick strike against their two greatest cities is possible to work as they appear lightly defended.
Enslave their peoples and pillage their craven temples for money but then watch to the East for their Armies. To plan further is folly indeed for could a even a Consular army withstand 10,000 Carthenginian warriors striking in a co-ordinated manner against one of these cities……..
….even if they do not manage to mobilise and we take one or two of the other cities? These lesser cities are unwalled and again I say that we will not be able and should not be prepared to bleed our armies to defend them.
So, I support this venture only IF the goals are not set beyond the first two seasons. I support an invasion of Afrika and the taking of Carthago AND Hadrumentum but nothing more until we know what our enemy will do next.
All this is also not considering what Carthage’s Navy will do! They can blockade our forces into Afrika or even sink our fleets and utterly trap our armies.
I do not know, whilst I support this venture all I can see is danger at every turn and our best hope is a swift and hard strike and well made preparations to withdraw from Afrika completely should the situation warrant it.
I must apologise for the long speech but much is to be considered and there is much danger for our Republic.
Senator Servius Aemilius is not attending the current proceedings, as he is away on campaign and cannot be reached, however, he has left his freeman clerk here to deal with matters of his estate and...a few other duties too.
Servius's Freeman Clerk - Senator Coruncanius, I'm not quite sure what it is you're asking. First, you said you were "questioning" the consuls proposal to send the consular force in Rome to Afrika...this emplies that you don't agree with it. Then you go on to say that my master has told you sending the consular army abroad would be the death knell of rome, but also ask "isn't Carthage abroad?" Now, this confuses me...It seems that you, while first questioning the reasoning behind a proposal to attack Carthage with the consular army, then turn around and question the reasoning for not doing so. The freeman mumbles something about Coruncanii fools. Eh...let me put this simply for you.
My master's direct feelings on the matter, as he has expressed them to me, is that the Consular army should be used to defend the west. Yes, Reinforcements in the east are in dire need. BUT, our current information tells us three things. 1 - Carthage has already landed consular sized armies on Sardinia and Malta. 2 - There are six Carthaginian armies of the same size, and one of half this size, within a seasons march of the city of Carthage itself. Possibly more on the other side of the mountains, but our spy near Carthage hasn't moved in quite some time, and is unable to determine the Carthaginian strength beyond the armies I have mentioned, as they passed through the province he currently resides in only one, maybe two seasons ago. 3 - No matter who commands it, no matter who thinks they are wise and capable enough to do so. There is no man amongst this senate that could fight, and win, a battle against six and half battle hardened Carthigian armies. Thinking you could outmaneouver them would be foolish. They will surround our armies, two, maybe three of theirs against our one. Any expedition to the heartlands of Carthage would be failed, futile, and place the western half of the Republic at the mercy of Carthage. In this way, we would be sitting in Rome, waiting for Carthage to land its armies on our shores in two, maybe three seasons. It would be the death knell of Rome.
I am unaware of exactly what plans my master has set out to do, as, quite clearly, he is on campaign and cannot be reached. But until his return, perhaps three, four seasons from now, perhaps 3 or four years from now, I cannot say. I will speak in these proceedings in his stead, and relay any information I receive from him to the senate.
It is obvious that my many answers have confused. I was questioning what exactly your master, Senator Servius Aemilius wanted to do with this situation as it wasn’t clear to me that he was definitively against an invasion of Carthage.
You have made it quite clear that he is at this time. However, I do not like the thought of an unused Consul army, it is a waste of coin and manpower. Our armies must earn there keep.
Perhaps your master would propose a campaign with the new Consul army to expel those Carthaginian forces who have landed in Sardinia and Malta? Certainly a noble plan in the short term, one that does not earn us any coin or slaves but there is nothing inherently “wrong” with such a proposal.
As for my questioning of the Consul, I was mainly questioning the way he unilaterally has started this undertaking, not that the undertaking itself is questionable…..only the methods of its inception.
Six and a Half full armies you say? Well, in view of that a direct strike at Carthago and the surrounding area does indeed seem folly…..I will have to visit a physician, it seems I cannot see them on the maps provided earlier.
Perhaps the Consul proposes a Raid on Lepcis Magna? It would not bring much profit and would perhaps prompt a heavy response from Carthage herself.
So, to clarify. IF, the forces built up against us in Carthage are of this magnitude I cannot see a venture, even with TWO Consular armies, succeeding. Such an undertaking would require two Consular armies AND two legions in support. We are certainly NOT at a juncture where we can afford such a thing.
Now then, where does that leave the Republic and, indeed, my own position? It leaves us with a Consul army in Ships awaiting deployment somewhere…..they say Afrika……I, now, hope this is untrue!
Using the new Consular army to expel the Carthaginians from our Islands perhaps? Does not a Consular army appear “excessive” for this purpose?
So, this leads me to again believe that the best place for a Consular army is the East! However, I will accept that we also need defence in the West and for our homes to which a force of Two Legions will be sufficient and once they are raised the new Consular army can move to the East and expel the Selucids.
To be honest, I await the Consuls comments on what he is actually proposing here as now I am confused.
Honoured conscript fathers,
There are reports of Phoenician spies in our capital, so hence the departure of my grandson Servius Aemilius and his legion, backed up up by some extra phalanx cohorts, was kept a secret. I urge you to be very careful of your words in the coming days, as this entire operation depends on suprise.
He is to land at Lepcis Magna and raid it for slaves, but we will not abandon the settlement. Tribune Servius Aemilius will continue to make a nuisance of himself in the region, hopefully drawing a part of the Cartheginian army towards his remote position. He will be relatively safe from the east as the Ptolemic empire is not able to cross the Sahara by land. This will clear some of the opposition for the Consular Army, which will be ready to ship in the first season of the next consul's term (2 seasons from now). It is my recommendation that the next consul invades the Cartheginian heartland with the Consular Army, beginning with the capture of their capital. The Cartheginians have massive forces at their disposal. The risk of total defeat of our forces during this operation will be very high. Our best hope is that the massive amount of forces west of Utica is used by the Cartheginians to recapture their lost colonies in Spain. With the Cartheginian fleet destroyed, the danger of invasion is lessened, but not gone. The islands are of minor strategic importance, I am ignoring them for now.
There have been many requests for legions send here and there, by senators who are not aware of our desperate straits. It has cost me incredible efforts just to keep our current legions up to strength, with our massive losses.
I myself am now leading a conglemoration of battered troops and merceneries, which is having to do the impossible task of taking over the work of two regular legions in guarding the Danube river.
In the east, we have three legions trying to do the work of five in guarding our northern and eastern border. In order to do this, we are running massive risks. Our only hope is that the Bosporus naval blockade, which will hopefully start working soon (suggestions on why this is not working are welcome !) will free our troops from guarding the Eastern border.
In the west, two legions are threathened by the massive forces of the Iberians, who have just moved a Consular sized force smack into the middle of our province. I fear war will break out next season.
For the Cartheginian operation, no more troops can be spared than the Consular Army and the praetorian legion already assigned to it.
To answer all the desperate pleas for more troops, I have exactly one (1) praetorian legion to send from Roma. I consider the greatest danger the Iberian threat at the moment, and will send out this legion to bring the army of Augustus Verginius near Gergovia up to Consular Army strength.
EDIT:
Should the next consul decide to act otherwise, there are ships enough gathered to evacuate Servius Aemlius and his troops and to transport the Consular Army to a location of his choosing.
Consul,
You send your Grandson into peril. If you do this willingly then I cannot argue against it.
Suffice to say that we are like the lone farmer fighting the ever encroaching forest fires….frantically scrambling from one point to the next trying to beat out the flames as each new spark ignites another crop….
I was not aware that Iberia had now entered the equation and I feel greatly depressed about this. Soon it will be time for our greatest heroes to emerge! Out numbered and desperate it will only be through our commander’s military genius that we will prevail.
I am sorry to say that all you can do now, Consul, is try to beat out those fires and glowing embers and do your best for the Republic in this dire time.
I am sure the Senate is behind you in these last few months and pray that we can turn this evil tide and return to the profitable times that signalled the start of your Consulship.
A messenger arrives with a scroll from Augustus Verginius.
Senators, I have recently received word that a large Iberian army has crossed our frontier and is currently encamped on Roman soil. I wish to assure you that I am closely monitoring this force and will engage it immediately if its intentions prove to be hostile. However, this show of aggression on what is our only peaceful border has the potential to impact many events in the future. I have recently spoken out in favor of a strong attack on Carthage. I am not withdrawing my support for such a plan, but I believe that it would be imprudent of me to continue discussions when the course of events on the Gallic frontier remains uncertain.
As such, please allow me some time to ponder the current situation and discuss it with my own advisors. I shall return to state my position on our future course of action once the current Consulship has finally run its term. In the meantime, please consider all of my previous statements regarding Carthage in stasis. I neither reject them nor embrace them at this moment.
From the Gallic border,
Augustus Verginius
[SENATE SPEAKER]: The Senate is now open for the submission of motions and of manifestoes for candidates for the post of First Consul. The deadline for motions to be seconded and candidates to identify themseleves is Saturday 8pm UK. There will then be a 24 hour period of voting.
Hmmm…..a difficult time to be proposing any specific Motions however I shall start with the following:
Motion #11.00:
The Senate Instructs the seaborne invasion of North Afrika with at least two Consular sized armies.
Motion #11.01:
The Senate instructs that the invasion of North Afrika have the targets of Carthago and Hadrumentum as a minimum. The Senate will not instruct further due to the issue of Tactical Variance.
Motion #11.02:
The Senate calls for the positioning of a Legion or other assembled force to “face off” against the Iberian incursion – this is not authorisation to initiate hostile activity but to show Iberia how seriously we take such unwarranted actions and allow them the chance to withdraw with honour to their own lands.
Motion #11.03:
The Senate Instructs, when funds permit, the construction of and manning of fortifications to prevent incursions by the Iberians.
Motion #11.04:
Byzantion is to be held against all odds and to the last man.
Senators, I am well aware that my proposed motion #11.04 is very abrasive but I strongly feel that if we are to mount any effective counterstrikes against the Selucids the key to such a venture is the retention of Byzantion.
However, I will not be offended should my last motion find no support.
Conscript fathers,
It is with relief that I lay down my rod of office, which has turned out to be deceptively heavy. I have done my best to lead the Republic to greatness, but I am not greatly pleased with my results.
My term has seen the death of two of our consuls, my friends Amulius Coruncanius and Publius Pansa (who still awaits transfer to the Mausoleum). Tribune Gaius Rutilius and the young Herennius Genucius also found their doom. I will first present you with a summary of our current situation, to get a good view of our situation it is best to read my last report.
Our main military forces at present :
The Legio I Italia Victrix, under the command of tribune Cornelius Saturnius, is stationed in Tylis.
The banner of the Legio II Sabina Quintia is being carried by the commander-to-be of the Consular Army, tribune Marcellus Aemilius.
The Legio III Sicilia Aemilia, under the command of tribune Flavius Pacuvius, is stationed in a fort next to Comata.
The Legio IV Gallica Firma banner is currently in the temple of Mars in Roma.
The Legio V Alaudae is currently carried by legate Numerius Aureolius in Byzantium. The actual legion is stationed outside the city in a fort.
The banner of the Legio VI Phoenix is currently carried by Gnaeus Hordeonius, a tribune in the Field Army II.
The Consular Army, under the temporary command of tribune Manius Coruncanius, is about to enter Sicily.
The Field Army I, under the command of praetor Tiberius Coruncanius, is on the march near Maronia.
The Field Army II, under the command of praetor Lucius Aemilius, is standing outside the town of Oduba.
The German Legion, under the command of tribune Quintus Libo, is on the march near Viberi.
The Cispine Gaul Legion, under the command of tribune Quintus Naevius, is stationed in a fort near Jenuensis.
The Gaul Narbonensis Legion, under the command of legate Augustus Verginius, is stationed in a fort near Gergovia.
The Italian Legion, under the command of legate Valerius Paullus, is on the march near Roma.
The Cartheginian Legion, under the command of tribune Servius Aemilius, is about to land in Africa.
I have no correct estimates of our financial revenue. At the last report, our income had dropped by well over 10.000 denarii to a measly 14.000 denarii. This immense setback is caused by the loss of trade with the Seleucid and the Ptolemaic empire.
A complete list of all the battle statistics can be found here. The summary :
Factions destroyed :
- Illyria
- The kingdom of Macedon
- Gaul
- The Greek Cities
Our total losses during my term :
Total enemy casualties : 23780 men
Total Roman casualties : 5896 men
Average kill ratio : 4.0 - 1
Total enemy ships sunk : 23 ships
Total Roman ships sunk : 4 ships
We have conquered 18 provinces, namely Chalkida, Salona, Delmatia, Kydonia, Hyrapytna, Bylazora, Ratiaria, Philipii, Comata, Gergovia, Luvavum, Debeltos, Oduba, Tylis, Byzantium, Nicomedia, Prusa and Viberi.
We want to get rid of Nicomedia, Prusa and Viberi.
We have conquered and lost Maronia.
We have lost Melite.
In spite of my warnings during midterm, we have become involved in war with the great empires of the East, the Ptolemaic and the Seleucid empire. We cannot hope to win this war in the long term and I encourage the next consul to keep up attempts to block the Bosporus with fleets (I'm pretty sure it can work, we just need several 3-ship fleets). The loss of trade has been a total disaster for the Republic, almost halving our total revenue.
Hence I propose
Motion 11.5 : We will attempt to set up a naval blockade in the Bosporus and no further incursions into Asia Minor are allowed this term (this does not include Rhodes).
My advice is to invade the Republic of Carthage in a war of conquest. It is the only place we can fight our enemies and make a profit. If we do not, we will go broke in the short term. We might be able to pay our armies, but we will not be able to develop our cities.
Aside from the war of conquest on Carthage, I encourage the next consul to launch a naval expedition to Rhodes, as the capture of Rhodes would do much to improve our disastrous financial situation (as it has the Colossus wonder).
Hence I propose
Motion 11.6 : We will attempt an amphibious invasion of Rhodes during this term.
There are several cities that are screaming for developement. Aside from the cities in Greece, Syracuse is the very worst case. I encourage the next consul to build an aquaduct there as soon as the forum is finished.
My grandson, Servius, has suggested to me that we extend the roman citizenship to our Italian allies. I have praised our Italian allies many times for their excellent performance in battle, and the great sacrifices they were willing to make for the Republic. On the other hand, the citizenship is not something we can give away lightly. The very fabric of our society rests on a balance between citizen, freemen and slaves in the population, just as the balance in our politics depends on the balance between Patricians and Plebejians.
The honour and priveliges of becoming a Roman citizen are something that must remain a prize that is attainable in theory, but in practice, almost, but not quite, out of reach of the common freeman.
If the citizenship becomes too widespread its value will deflate and our society will become unstable. On the other hand, our Republic has grown so large that an extension of the citizenship to some of our Latin allies seems a wise decision. The citizenship has become too exclusive, the other wrong side of the balance. I think if we offer citizenship to Ancona and Capua we will bring the balance back to its perfect ratio.
Hence, I will propose
Motion 11.7 : We will extend citizenship (i.e. build citizenship building) to the cities of Capua and Ancona during this consul's term.
I further propose the following motions :
Motion 11.8 : We will not extend our borders in Europe during this consul's term, except for Maronia
Motion 11.9 : We will try to return Viberi to our allies, the Germans, during this consul's term.
Motion 11.10 : We will not try to hold on to Nicomedia and Prusa
Motion 11.11 : We will repopulate our Italian cities using enslavement and governors. Any conquered city with a population over 4000 souls is to be enslaved after making sure that only the cities that are depopulated (like Corfinium) have governors inside them.
Motion 11.12 : We will attempt to conquer Vicus Marcomanii and Vicus Goth, if the Germans have not done so, and give them to our allies, the Germans. We will not attack an Iberian-held town while we are not at war with them (Vicus Goth is held by Iberia).
Further I propose this consular amendment as I am a bit tired with fighting everyone :
Constitutional Amendment 11.A : We will organize a poll on changing the difficulty settings of the game to M/VH, M/H. M/M, H/VH, H/H or H/M. The one with the most votes, not 2/3 majority, or even a majority, will become the new setting. Only lower house senate member votes on the poll are valid and influence is not a factor in this poll. This amendment itself does require a 2/3 majority of senate votes to pass.
I also propose this amendment in view of the recent discussions in the senate :
Constitutional Amendment 11.B : If there are conflicting motions, the one with the most votes in favour of them is the motion that supersedes the other. At the moment it is the order in which votes have been proposed. This amendment itself requires 2/3 of the votes to pass, and if it passes will be in effect over the motions voted on this session and into the future.
Lastly, if the esteemed senator Augustus Verginius decided to run for the office of consul, he has my full backing. His previous reign as consul has proved very succesfull and he is the only senate member, besides myself, who saw the need for improving our economy even so long ago. Our nation has made great strides in that direction during his term and I have great faith he will help us recover from our dramatic setbacks in the coming years. He is also an excellent strategist and his war of manouver in Gaul was a masterpiece.
EDIT : Motion 11.12 and Constitutional Amendment 11.A have been updated.
EDIT : The Legio IV Gallica has been given its correct name, the Legio IV Gallica Firma.
EDIT : Whoops, forgot Gaius Rutilius, who also perished.
EDIT : Motion 11.5 is retracted, as a naval blockade does not work.
EDIT : Motion 11.9 is retracted, as when Viberi rebels it becomes a rebel town and that will provide a better protection for us than if the Germans get it.
SENATE SPEAKER: I would ask Senator Manius Coruncanius to review his use of the word "authorise" in his motions. It should be recalled that all prior motions have now lapsed with the change in first Consul, hence strictly speaking motions 11.00, 11.02 and 11.03 seem redundant: the new First Consul will already have the power to authorise the actions mentioned. Perhaps the Senator wishes to use a stronger term - e.g. "instructs" or "calls for"?
OOC: I am strongly against changing the difficulty level (Constitutional Ammendment 11A). I think it is important not to pass that motion, because it will then very easily switch the difficulty level from what it presently is (there are only a handful of lower house members and on the voting rules in the ammendment, if, say, 3 want it to X, it will be switched to X).
There are several reasons why I don't want to change the difficulty level:
Firstly, it is not clear we can do it - RTW was not designed to have the difficulty level switched within a campaign and some of the posts in RTR PE forums at TWcentre report that the hack to do so messes up the dates. I've had enough of a fright with the rebellion CTDs and don't want to do anything that will mess up this now 100+ turn PBM.
Secondly, it is shutting the door after the horse has bolted. We are already at war with virtually everyone. Adding Iberia or Germany to the list won't change much. And I am not convinced changing the campaign difficulty level will keep them significantly more peaceful than they are going to be, or magically induce the others to be our friends again.
Thirdly, I actually think Roman campaigns are a lot more fun when you are at war with everyone. It's a very strong faction and needs to be overstretched to be challenged. If we could just salami slice one faction at a time, it would be trivial. The "total war" aspect means that this PBM seems to actually have gotten harder, first with FLYdude's second half of his term and then with the last First Consul. This is a good thing, IMO. Our objectives for the campaign include taking down Seleucia, Egypt, Carthage & Thrace. Well, now we have a good reason to. Iberia is on the list too.
Fourthly, DDW may be tired of fighting everyone but a lot of us in the Lower House are itching to have battles. If he is talking from a First Consul point of view only, I can understand the frustration but then again maybe other First Consuls would not mind managing a "total war" situation.
Fifthly, on the battle difficulty, the battles are quite hard enough already, given how stretched our forces are. A Praetorian Roman army against a Consular Successor one is not a push over, as our Co-Consul has proven twice. Quite frankly, I am worried for Numerius holding Byzantion with what he's got. If he is not reinforced, sooner or later, he's going down. If he has to face the Seleucids with a +4 attack, +4 morale or whatever hard is, I'm going to be seriously depressed.
Sixthly, I've always like Medium battles because I like the historical match-ups. Playing a realism mod and then skewing the combat to be unrealistic has never struck me as very intuitive.
OOC : I understand your feelings, econ21, and may even be swayed by them. However, it seems like a good idea to have this issue debated one and for all. Based on the arguments presented I will either retract my amendment sunday or let it stand.
Suffice to say, I've one played a VH/VH campaign to the finish, and I wasn't all that pleased with the gameplay. I really miss having allies to fight alongside with (really the most fun aspect of RTW in my opinion) and the endless armies got really tiresome after a while. I prefer fewer, but harder fights.
EDIT : I just realised I won't be able to retract this amendment on time on sunday. If no other senator wants to take over this amendment before sunday 6PM, it can be considered withdrawn.
I second all motions currently proposed so far (up to 11.12) and the Constitutional Amendment 11.B. I do not second 11.A.
However, let it be said that if the wording of 11.01 changes I may withdraw my support. If there are no immediate reinforcements coming to Afrika then I suggest that my legion take Hadrumentum and hold it indefinitely, waiting for reinforcements to form before continuing the expedition. This is not a motion.