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Played the demo until it erm, crashed(yes, I did use the new BioShock NVidia drivers). I'm not really overwhelmed, it looks nice, is somewhat scary, but it's also very...linear and before it crashed it was a bit hectic. Well, I'm gonna try the demo again once I feel like it again, was neither bad nor good so far IMO.
Just bought it today *giggles nefariously in anticipation* Downloading very very soon... just waiting for my gaming drive to Defrag should take another ten minutes. :beam:
It reminded me a lot of the beginning of System Shock 2. Explosions, chaos, glimpses of monsters, an unknown ally yelling at you over the radio, the feeling to being dropped into the middle of an almighty mess with no idea what's truly going on ...
Woohoo...
Just picked a PC copy up from Gamestop in the Gallery in Baltimore...
Sweet...
Reads list and actually find Gefore 6600 in there. :inquisitive: Hm, something to download tomorrow then, demo downloaded today :2thumbsup: )Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur
Bit annoyed with Nvidea on that card, they never ever bothered to do a driver upgrade on that card and that even when you could run the games on max graphics without lag (but due to no driver upgrades, it decides to crash instead :wall: )
I'm Dl-ing the demo right now (1.8GB).
Looking forward to the eye candy.
Started the demo and remembered why I don't play scary games. Looked nice, and it certainly had atmosphere, but it's not my cup of tea.
I'll try the demo then decide if I get it on the 360 or PC. In all likely hood it will be the 360. I just hope it's not another Supreme commander, a mediocre game that gets accolades based on nothing more than it's "spritual precursor."
It's more interesting and confusing than scary IMO. I tried it again yesterday and crashed shortly after the part where I crashed before...why don't they allow saving in the demo?:wall:Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good
Which part are you getting up to? (spoiler tag if necessary)Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
EDIT: Never mind, it was a problem with some common antivirus software returning false positives.
Seems to be a false positive, the new version of Securom is setting off some virus scanners.
Heh, just what I came here to say. The news doesn't seem to have found its way onto the bioshock pages I was reading; I found it while searching for information about what the reproted trojan does.
AGV must have found the demo too tame, and set it up to scare users in a different way. Thanks a bunch. :waves fist at AGV:
Editing the alert to something tamer ...
AGV did ruin the demo before I could install it today though (deleted the setup files without my approval even, had another false positive a while ago). ~:pissed: So now it's another downloading before I can see if I can run it :wall:Quote:
Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
Quote:
Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Anyway, I wasn't very impressed, the demo crashed on me twice(yeah, I'm using Vista, but since this is a DX10 game it should run fine on Vista, no?), the graphics are very nice but not revolutionary IMO(maybe they are in DX10 mode) and the gameplay can be very confusing once there is some real action. And to be honest, after about 10mins the scare factor was pretty much gone.:shrug: I found a lot of medipacks and a machinegun and that sort of takes the scare away, the fact that you won't have to reload after death didn't help either.
Or maybe I should switch to expert difficulty.:stupido2: Well, I doubt that will stop it from crashing.
Got the full game and it is running absolutely fine on Vista 32bit with the Nvidia 163.44 beta driver...
You have a point with the graphics... While "extremely good" (posiibly even some of the best I have seen in a shooter) they are not "revolutionary", certainly no one is going to look at the monitor, squint and ask is that live action or animation?
I was reading the release notes and they say the game is actually optimised for dual processors.. Sweet..
I'm running it in XP with a 1900 videocard, dual proc. Smooth like butter at 1280x1024. The graphics are not freaky good, but the design certainly is. The sound design and voice acting are all of that and a bag of chips.
I'll be in a position to say more when I've played it for more than a couple of hours.
Yes, this is truly a wonderful game. So wonderful in fact that it DOESN'T EVEN RUN ON X800 SERIES GRAPHICS CARDS!!! Why oh why, of all the graphics cards it won't work with did it have to be the type me and my friend use!?
EDIT: Could as many of you as possible sign this petition? Apparently if it reaches 5000 signatures, the Bioshock development team will make a patch to fix the problems with X800 series cards.
http://www.petitiononline.com/BioShock/petition.html
Please do so, it's a real pain in the behind for many gamers out there.
Husar, you've made it to the end. The demo's supposed to transition to the usual "Buy our game, it's great!" business, then drop you back to the main menu. That puts an end to my original thought: that your PC might be having difficulty with one of the parts where it gets suddenly busy. Possibly a driver issue?
I agree - it isn't scary. Scary games aren't my cup of tea, so I'm somewhat relieved TBH.
The amount of health items it flung out was rather baffling. I’m crap at FPS type games, and I couldn’t pick up approximately half the health packs I saw because my inventory was full of them.
I'm expecting resurrection to have a cost of some sort. System Shock had the same concept; it required a certain amount of nanites (effectively the currency) to rebuild your body.
I thought the graphics were very good. :feels like some kind of provincial frog who will soon find herself gaping at the screen and going, "The pictures are moving! Witch craft!":
Maybe it's because I was lazy and installed the new driver over the old one without removing anything.:embarassed:
My PC should be good enough, I have some duo thing and a modern video thing with a lot of workspace things from Intel, NVidia and Aeneon respectively. ~;)
Anyway, just played Stalker again, now that's a nice shooter.:yes:
Does anyone know how long BioShock will be in SP? Most modern shooters seem to be over after a few hours.:inquisitive:
One review said it should take anywhere between 20 and 25 hours to clear... :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
So... how many little sisters did you see? Found 4 (that's including the 2 that are quite hard to miss).Quote:
Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
I agree that it felt quite easy, but then this is the beginning of the game so.
They're completely off with the subtitles in the demo and that's quite annoying, but otherwise it's good. :2thumbsup:
Too bad that most of the scare and creepyness factors wears off after the first playthrough.
That's generally an invitation to trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironside
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Hmm atleast 5 then :laugh4: . Didn't even think to consider your last one as it's outside the demo IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
Have you red or seen about were the little sisters stay while not gathering adam?
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Lots of interesting details, too bad that it's hard to notice them all, especially on the best (first) run.
I suddenly don't feel so stupid for buying BioShock via Steam -- turns out the disc version contains SecuROM, a Sony-made bit of DRM that latches onto your system and never lets go.
Of course, STALKER comes with the same malware, and I installed that from a disc, so I guess I'm no better off anyway.
DRM manages my digital rights in much the same way prison manages freedom. I understand the desire to protect one's work, but it all seems so futile. Copies show up elsewhere on the interwebs anyway, and paying customers like me have to worry about conflicting security software messing up our systems. Anybody remember the Sony rootkit fiasco? The Starforce fiasco?
Grrrrr.
-edit-
Apparently the BioShock implementation of SecuROM allows you to install the game twice. That's it. Forever. Say you have a laptop and a tower, and you install it on both, and then replace one. You're going to have to call the company, personally, to beg your case. Nice one.
-edit of the edit-
Seems I'm far from alone in being cheesed off about SecuROM in BioShock.
Even the editors of PC Gamer can't get traction once SecuROM has decided they're past their limit. Nice.
If some of the comments on Digg and 2K forums are true, there is DRM in the freaking demo?!?!?! That makes sense. ~:rolleyes:
2K just lost my business. :no:
The PC Gamer editor's blog is chilling.
All I have to do is call the number in the manual, read off the reactivation request code supplied by the activation wizard, and they'll give me an unlock code. Well, not so simple in this case—the support number for the US listed in the manual didn't work, giving me a "We cannot connect your call at this time" message. So I called the Canadian number, which went through. After four minutes on hold, I was told that the only way they'd unlock it is if I take a photo of the disc and the manual and email it to them. Wow… even Microsoft doesn’t make you do that.Later:
Having now jumped through all their hoops hours ago, I’m currently waiting for 2K to get around to allowing me to play my legitimate copy of the game on the system of my choosing. Meanwhile, the pirates who cracked Windows Vista’s activation in a matter of days are already at work on the game, and I sincerely doubt that the BioShock copy protection wall will still be standing a week from today. And while those pirates play their ill-gotten games without a care, those of us who came by our copies legally will have to put up with draconian obstacles that will then serve no purpose whatsoever. Well done 2K, well done indeed.
It's now been more than 24 hours since I sent 2K tech support a photo of my BioShock disc and manual, and I have yet to hear from them about my code being reactivated.
Then I'm not buying it.
The only point of these is to stop piracy, and the pirates generally remove this type of software before distributing the media.
So I don't want extra software that may compromise any of my PCs or Laptops with something that is overzealous... I have MS Office for that.
Wow, this is getting very annoying. You have StarForce that cripples your DVD drives, SecuROM that won't let you install more than twice without sending things around the world and begging for mercy and they even included such malware in demos. I already had two DVD drives deteriorate into uselessness which was likely the fault of StarForce in at least one case.
Then there is Earth 2140 where I have to call a number that costs more than 1EUR to be able to play again(depending on how long they make me wait I'll pay for the game twice:wall: ).
On the other hand it's a good thing since I'm simply not going to buy such games. Only preorder currently is World in Conflict, but I doubt they put anything anoying in it that could ruin their prestige project(then again, you never know :no: ).
Tsk, I was so happy when the lady on the phone gave me an activation code for my outdated Win XP beta many years ago but since then many companies seem to have adopted that mechanism and made it worse.
Guess it's time for some boycotting, I need to get out more anyway.:eyebrows:
For what it's worth, SecuROM is a rootkit. A freaking rootkit. Will Sony never learn? Here's how you can find it on your PC:
Go to your start menu. Click on "run." Enter C:\Documents and Settings\XXX\Application Data\SecuROM
Put your PC's name in place of XXX. You will also have to have selected "show hidden files and folders" under the folder options in explorer.
There is a readme text file, among other things, in this hidden folder. The text is amusing, to say the least.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PLEASE DO NOT DELETE THE FILES IN THIS FOLDER BECAUSE YOU MIGHT LOOSE ESSENTIAL DIGITAL RIGHTS.
READ BELOW
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technical Information for the PC Administrator:
The files securom_v7_01.dat and securom_v7_01.bak have been created during the installation of a SecuROM protected application.
It guarantees more user convenience because the original disc does not have to be in the local drive at all times anymore.
It is necessary for copy protected CDs, demo versions and protected software downloaded from the Internet.
The file contains your licences for all products which are SecuROM protected, therefore it will not be deleted automatically.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PLEASE DO NOT DELETE THE FILE BECAUSE YOU MIGHT LOOSE ESSENTIAL DIGITAL RIGHTS.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The information contained in securom_v7_01.dat will not be transferred to any other computer without your permission.
This security system is connected with a MS Windows Service called "SecuROM User Access Service".
This module is started automatically when launching a protected application if the user is logged in with Windows administrator rights.
In case users do not have administrator rights we recommend to keep it running.
See www.securom.com for further information
Online activation, eh? Guess I can hold off on buying/playing Bioshock for the time being.
Once again, pirates get to have all the fun. :sweatdrop:
Wait. So what does it all have to do with the demo? Do I have it now cuz I've downloaded the demo :inquisitive: ?
Yup. Seems they included SecuROM in the demo, since demos get used in nefarious ways by the bad guys. Not that it will stop the bad guys, mind you, but that's their rationale. So 2K games is infecting everyone in sight with a Sony rootkit in an utterly futile attempt to slow piracy.
I predict this is going to blow up in their faces, big time.
In fairness, nobody has demonstrated that the SecuROM rootkit is as evil as the original Sony Rootkit, or StarForce, for that matter. But I really hate game companies punishing honest users by saddling our PCs with malware. It's just bad PR and bad business.
Elder Scrolls: Oblivion, one of the biggest games last year, was released with no DRM, no rootkit of any sort, and I didn't see it hurting their sales. In fact, gamers on the geek boards went overboard praising the company for the choice.
2K should apologize and issue a SecuROM rootkit removal tool. Anything short of that is unacceptable.
How does it affect my computer as it's only the demo?
Just went reading through the Bioshock forums(skipping about 20 pages in the thread about Secrum), it looks like this is "tazering" hundreds of people badly. The conversation tho, has somewhat shifted to the fact that probably 1 in about 15 gamers or so pirate games and that the gaming companies are over reacting to this and as such, these "protection" software that come with their games and screw up everyone's regular machines, that PC gaming is dying because of it. Anybody else rummage through other forums about this? And because Bioshock was very promising in reviving PC gaming, it could be the death nil if they basically(especially 2k Games) get their heads together and realize that these measure are hurting the industry because of it.
And now I don't feel like playing the demo ~:(
2K games loaded both the finished game and the demo with SecuROM. This is meant to prevent the most simplistic sort of .exe hacking. It won't work, but that's what they did.
If you installed the demo, you have installed SecuROM's rootkit. Apparently it makes AVG anti-virus very unhappy, as well as some other apps. Angry? Irritated? Let them know.
It would also be productive to let every gaming site, tech journalist or press contact know about this. If you know somebody, complain. Loudly. The more this is in the press, the more embarrassed they will be.
Okay, so if I uninstall the demo, does the rootkit go with it? Or does it stay?
The rootkit stays. Without a removal tool, there is no safe way to get rid of it. That's one of several reasons geeks foam at the mouth and howl at the moon when you mention rootkits.
So it's on my comp for ever then? Well bugger that...
It looks as thought 2K understands the danger of geek rage. They have changed the activation policy, and are issuing some sort of removal tool. Gads, why they even bothered with this technology in the first place is beyond me.
-edit-
Hmm, they're also claiming that SecuROM does not install a rootkit. I am suspicious ...
Does SecuROM install a root kit on my computer?
No. SecuROM DOES NOT USE any root kit technology in its implementation. SecuROM Product Activation does place a folder and registry keys on your system. These folders are used only for storage of license information and information to assist with disc authentication. Please do not modify or delete these files. Tampering with these files may result in authentication issues.
What is a root kit?
A "rootkit" can be described as software or a set of software tools intended to conceal running processes, files or system data from the operating system and which can open ports to allow remote access to the system.
A "rootkit" makes it possible for viruses or other malicious programs ("malware") to hide content on a user's PC. In this way, a virus or other malware may remain undetected, even if updated anti-virus software is installed.
SecuROM DOES NOT USE any root kit technology in its implementation. SecuROM Product Activation does place a folder and registry keys on your system. These folders are used only for storage of license information and information to assist with disc authentication. Please do not modify or delete these files. Tampering these files may result in authentication issues.
Well, I don't care about rootkits that don't actually harm me or my computer(I don't think they want to steal my screenshots or my digital job appliances though I'd happily take any job offers they have :sweatdrop: ).
What makes me angry is that they want to dictate how often I can use something that I payed them money for, especially when the end of use does not necessarily mean I'm at fault(my HDD could fail twice a week forcing me to reinstall).
I remember I ran out of activations for Earth 2140 because I had two 512MB RAM sticks, activated, then put in another 512MB stick, activated, found out it wasn't worth it(the third stick was slower etc), took it out, had to activate it again. Well, this is mighty stupid, not even Win XP wanted me to reactivate because of a tiny RAM stick. IT's absolutely ridiculous and it's also the reason why I haven't downloaded a single song from a legal download site. I'm not paying them to limit me.:wall:
AFAIK Securom doesn't use rootkits, or at least hasn't used them in the past.
I'm stunned. I've heard the name SecuROM many times but never in a bad context. I thought it was one of those standard CD-on-startup checks. All this about limited activations and covertly installing software on the user's PC is completely new to me. Starforce and Steam are the only ones I've heard bad things about. I won't let either onto my PC.
As for this "activate your install" business ...! :rtwno:
Yes, it does. Or something in the demo does. AGV was yelling that it had found 23 instances of Trojan Horse Generic6 on my PC after I installed the demo. The PC was clean before that. The demo zip scanned as clean before I opened it, as did the unpacked installation files.Quote:
If you installed the demo, you have installed SecuROM's rootkit. Apparently it makes AVG anti-virus very unhappy
Oh well, my copy of the game is installing as I type. I've already installed the demo. Too late to change my mind if I wanted to.
Now that the game is out, I'd like to take this opportunity to remind everyone to use spoiler tags where appropriate. Untagged spoilers can ruin a plot oriented game for others.
The Bioshock version uses something that at least triggers rootkit varnings from several test programs. And some anti-virus programes (AVG atleast) go haywired about trojan varnings, so it's fairly certain to say that something is amiss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crandaeolon
Whatever reason, whoever came up with those limitations is one very biiig fool. I mean, had it worked prefectly, most normal costumers would feel the problem after a year or so... And that would reflect badly on 2K and horrendously on Securom, as it does now. The difference is that at that point the costumers are most likely really screwed over and certainly not willing to give the companies a second chance to redeem themself.
Bioshock is on hold here, until the matter has been resolved. Had it only been Securom (that atleast currently doesn't seem to give any issues that I need to bother about), but it's much more into it atm.
Edit: And SecuROM is currently on my computer thanks to that demo. :thumbsdown:
Same here.Quote:
Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
Seems to be a popular game though, almost sold out in the local GameStop(no, didn't want to buy it, I know someone who works there).
I hope they get millions of calls from angry customers.~;p
I'm going to hold off buying it until more comes out about the copy protection. It's a pity because I was really excited about this game, but there comes a point at which it's not worth it for a game I can't control.
The "is it a rootkit or isn't it" debate is ongoing and robust. SecuROM swears up and down that it isn't, but they're a branch of Sony, and Sony has a long track record of doing horrible things to PCs and misrepresenting after the fact, so I don't think their word is worth anything.
Best analysis I've read so far:
It seems like you're saying the SecuROM is not a rootkit only because SecuROM does not intend to do anything evil. This is akin to saying it's all right if I use a nuclear warhead in my back yard as a microwave oven because I don't intend to use it for anything evil.
It's the potential for misuse that defines a rootkit, not the goodwill of the developers.
Any software that does not provide any uninstall utility is malware. The moment you attempt to take away my right to choose what is and isn't installed on my system, you've crossed the line between good intentions and bad. That's why I don't approve of SecuROM.
I installed the demo through Steam and found the rootkit but AVG anti-vir didn't pick up anything...
The issue is settled for this lemur. I've written Steam, requesting that they revoke my license and issue a refund. I also sent an email to all of the corporate contacts for 2K that I could glean from corporate reports and press releases (they don't seem to have a public directory, so I had to email where I could).
I've decided that using online activation for a game crosses the line. I could go into all of the reasons here, but I don't think it's necessary. I would have loved to play BioShock all the way through, but sometimes you just have to know when too much is too much.
I'll let you know how it goes; I don't expect this to be easy.
Nicely done Lemur, I hope you succeed.:2thumbsup:
If this would make big enough waves, I could already see some legislation here that requires them to write onto the package what sort of copy production is used. Maybe I should write to the appropriate consumer lobby groups.
Can be that AVG has patched it away now. It seems to be the install files that makes AVG react. At least is was for me. The demo works fine with the files quarantined and I'm not getting anything from the rootkit or the demo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good
My second download was from Steam so unless they changed something in the demo, downloading through Steam doesn't make a difference, except possibly that the files are only in temp files and not in a chosen folder. And only the file scanner seems to pick it up. So if you downloaded it today, you might see AVG react to it tomorrow.
Were there already 2 other Lemurs signed into the 2K forums? ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Lemur
I've gone about 20 minutes past the point where the demo ended. Most of the beginning section is the same as the demo, except for a few changes which make your character less uber, those being:Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
From what I've seen in-game and in the manual it looks like my hopes for character customisation will be met. There's a lot of potential upgrades, and I doubt you'll be able to afford them all.
AVG? I'm not up on the lingo. I have Norton, and you're saying that if I run the demo, it'll pick up all sorts of mish mash and the demo might crash?
Bah.... I was planing on picking up the game at the mall this afternoon, but it looks like I'll pass on this one (and I didn't install the demo, luckily). I'll put up with activation DRM for software I really need, like Photoshop, but not for something relatively trivial like a game. Also, I sometimes like to go back and revisit games I've played in the past, and there's no guarantee that the activation server will still be around a few years from now. That's why I usually buy the boxed CD/DVD version of games even when there's an online purchase version.
I wish there was a way to let them know that they actually did just lose a customer over this kind of thing, but just posting on a forum and saying "I'm not buying it" doesn't carry much weight. And most stores won't give you a full refund, or let you exchange for another game, so that screws that avenue of protest.
Great way to ruin what looked like a good game. I'll spend my money on games like GalCiv2, from companies like Stardock that treat their legitimate customers like actual customers, instead of thieves.
Just read through most of the SecuRom thread at the 2K forums, there are a lot of people cheesed off about this (Lemur's is post #1034 ~D ). For a while, this thing was growing faster than I could read it. The activation servers went down apparently. ~:rolleyes: I'll be posting a "not getting my $50" post soon. Useless gesture, I'm sure.
http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6628
Aside from the obvious DRM/rootkit issues, online activation is just a bad idea. What happens if Jack Thompson sues TakeTwo into oblivion? If we want to re-install 3 years from now for a memory-lane game, we're hosed.
PS - Apparently, the Steam version also has SecuRom, 2K didn't trust Steam's DRM method.
I have the demo through Steam. The eye-candy is exceptional, but not my kind of game.
So now I have the SecuRom weirdness in my rig? Is there a way to tell for sure and get rid of it?
You mean people are still taking that nutjob seriously? :gathering:Quote:
Originally Posted by drone
http://xboxer.tv/2007/08/jack_thomps..._set_on_b.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Kekvit Irae
Well, I don't know about seriously...
Personally, I don't think SecuRom is a rootkit. I operate on the literal definition of the term, which would mean it's "kit" that gives "root"-level access to a PC. I don't believe that SecurRom does that. However, crapware, shovelware, ect would still apply in my book. :no:
It sounds like the activation mess is Half-Life2 all over again and highlights why I try to steer well clear of games that require you to go online and beg permission just to play an offline, single-player game.
Good luck to you. :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur
Ken Levine says they will remove the activation at some point, as well as nixing any rumors of a PS3 release.
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/08/24/le...-on-pc-issues/
One thing I have to call BS on:
Couldn't have planned it would be a hit!?! It's been on everyone's radar for over a year! Surely they had some clue, and should have known about the HL2 release fiasco. :no:Quote:
Levine admits there were "real screw-ups" and he "understands why people are pissed off" about the online copy protection verification for the game and it comes down to a classic victim of their own success story. They couldn't have planned the game would be such an insta-hit and they weren't prepared, so when all those people tried to verify their PC versions online during installation the server crashed.
They didn't feel like spending the money to have a decent server.
The reinstall limit has been raised to five now. Also, in theory, if you uninstall it gives you that install back again. Of course if you can't reinstall because, for example, your drive got fried then that is one installation which you won't see again.
As an anti-piracy measure I'm sure this system will prove utterly ineffective. However that is not the point. The idea of the online activation and SecuROM protection is merely to ensure early sales of the game. I'm sure that all concerned are fully aware that it will be cracked sooner or later.
The point of the limited number of installs allowed is designed to improve long term sales by damaging the second-hand and exchange markets. Simple as that really.
Of course the main issue for most is that, whether the protection is a rootkit or not, a pirated copy will have more utility than a legimate copy. This is clearly backwards, contrary to the whole idea of copy protection and highly insulting to the legitimate consumer.
Someday a producer will realize that and make money hand over fist.
Is anyone else out there playing the game? Would be a tad ironic if my wish to avoid reading spoilers in the line of duty was fulfilled by everyone else avoiding the game like the plague :tongueg:
Well I have the game and it is installed on my one and only gaming machine so any damage is already done and I am not overly concerned...
It still rocks are a game...
I have no doubt that the game is of the highest quality. I will not, however, buy it while this system of protection remains in place.
If a way of removing the protection turns up, either legitimately or illegitimately, I will buy and enjoy.
I've long since stopped buying games when they are first released, preferring to wait until patches and mods have been released. This only gives me more reason to wait.
I ended up buying the game, but I have a certain problem. The game actually makes me panic at times, reducing me to running away and wasting precious ammo in desperate bursts without any considerable effect, which makes playing the game an ordeal for me. I suppose this is a result of well created atmosphere on the game. I must admit, that already entering Rapture felt like taking a plunge into the unknown and after plunging into it I feel like I'm descending deeper and deeper into the unknown, without any knowledge of what direction to take to save me from it. Rapture isn't a place I want to explore, but a hell that I want to escape and the only way to escape it is seems to be to throw all my fears aside. But why does it have to be so hard?
PS. the game has already made me squeal once in terror. :shame:
I find it disgusting that the computer game industry seems to be the only one which allows publishers to so screw over paying customers by selling them a product without the right to actually own it, to have a physical product that is yours. All this business of activating a download, or registering my purchase makes a mockery of property rights, let alone installing unwanted programs onto computers of customers.
Lemur, good post on the 2k forums and I wish you luck in getting the refund. If only more people would do that (or not buy in the first place) it might make publishers stop and think. Or destroy pc gaming. I don't know, really.
I'm playing it, just starting out though (so I appreciate the spoiler warnings!)Quote:
Originally Posted by frogbeastegg
After my initial rant, I cooled off and found some more info about what's actually going on. Short version: it's not a rootkit. It does get flagged by RootkitRevealer, because that program flags all suspicious methods for hiding keys, and this is causing some confusion. Here's the geek-level info on all this, for anyone interested:
http://games.slashdot.org/comments.p...7&cid=20349927
This may or may not make people feel better about what the company is doing. It's still kinda nasty, but far from rootkit nasty, and this isn't the first game I've played that stores hidden SecureRom keys.
The company is also saying that they'll remove the activation limits (all limits, not just increasing it to 5) after the initial release period when the game is hot. They're not committing to a date, but that seems reasonable. It answers the question of "what happens if your company is gone, 2 years from now and I want to play it again?". So there's an element of trust required here, but I think they've been burned pretty badly by the initial user response, so I'll give 'em the benefit of the doubt.
BTW, I did a manual "check for updates" in AVG before installing the game, which did pull in a new update, and the game installed without triggering any alarms. So maybe AVG now has this particular set of game files off the hot list. Or maybe I just got lucky, I dunno. I'm also surprised that I can play the game fairly smoothly with high effects settings on my 2-year old machine (although only at 1024x768).
Anyway, looking forward to some game discussion once I get a little further. Some spooky stuff going on around here, and I really like the 30's Deco theme. Reminds me of the Dr. Phibes movies.... I keep expecting Vincent Price to jump out from the next corner.
Are we talking about Bioshock screenshots (as is the whole original intent of this thread) or copy protections? :blankg:
I'd like it if people would stay on topic and make a new thread if they want to discuss Securom or whatever other copy protections a game might have instead of derailing a potentially great thread.
Also, be forewarned, froggie and I do not like blatant spoilers. If you want to continue the thread as a screenshot or discussion thread, please be advised to use the spoiler tags for things that might spoil the plot for those who have yet to play.
I think we should just turn it into the Official Bioshock Thread or something like that since the game's already out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kekvit Irae
The choice is really up to Fragony to change the thread, since he was the one who started it. I have no objections, either way, to changing the thread or starting a new one.
Alright thenQuote:
Originally Posted by Kekvit Irae
I am splitting Bioshock discussion into two threads from this point onwards.
All gameplay discussion will go into the Bioshock gameplay thread.
All other Bioshock discussion, including discussion of the CP, belong in the Bioshock non-gameplay topic, i.e. this one.
All spoilers must be concealed by spoiler tags regardless of which thread you post in.
I'm doing this so people can talk about the game without it getting lost in other concerns, and so people wanting to talk about the copy protection etc can do so without it getting lost in game talk. Discussion of SecuROM will be permitted in the correct topic until and unless it heads into illegal areas
Please take the time to put your posts in the correct topic! Moving individual posts is a pain and a half, and having discussion pinwheeling across two threads defeats the whole point of having two threads. If people won't make the minescule effort then we'll have to merge the two topics, and then no one will be happy.
:Hands Fragony and Out a ticket each: I'm requisitioning your threads for the good of the org. This ticket enables you to claim a thread of equal value from the front desk. Thanks for your cooperation :winkg:
Glad i read this thread while DLing the demo, cancelled the DL.
Bioshock looks like a nice game, but I'll live without it. I avoided HL2 because of the online activation thing and i'll avoid this game too.
I've already reinstalled civ4 more than five times on different computers, and that game is two years old or so. I ain't buying for the right to play a game, I'll only pay to own it.
Lemur, good luck with fighting the man !
No response as yet to any of my inquiries; I imagine they're overwhelmed with angry users. I'll give it a little time before I launch into more emails.
Interesting statement...Quote:
Originally Posted by doc_bean
From a contractual perspective the only thing you own is a license to use the software. There is no transfer of intellectual property rights when you purchase a game. Technically you do not own any software you did not write yourself or commision to be written for you...
Not Windows, not MS Office, not IE, not your games, none of it owned by you. You own license(s) to use it and the copies of the media containing it.
Is this not the case?
If it is they why do we get so upset when companies make an effort to enforce this aggreement that we have entered into?
Is it because the aggreement is not properly defined at time of purchase? Because it is inherently "wrong"?
If it only when they are overly streniously implimented? Is it because the limited number of installs implies a distinct lifespan for the software becuase lets face it, we are going to upgrade machines...
Well, one simple line is crossed with online activation: My license is worthless if their server licensing goes down, if they stop paying for the server, if they go insane, or if they go out of business.
I can stick Fallout into my PC and play it, even though Black Isle and Interplay are dead and gone. If every game company begins this activation nonsense, PC gaming will lose its entire back catalog over time.
I know, I know, someone from the BioShock team is now claiming that they will release a patch down the road that removes the activation. I guess we had all better download and archive that patch as soon as it comes out, 'cause the game will not install properly without it in 2010.
Bob the Insane, let me come back at you with a different example. When I buy a book, I am not buying the full intellectual rights to it. A copy of Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants does not give me the right to make a movie from that book. On the other hand, Bantam or Dell Ray or whatever publisher does not gain the right to inspect my home, check my bookshelf, and lock my front door if it detects a photocopier.
This is an established customer/producer relationship, and I will oppose publishers' attempts to expand their rights at the expense of yours and mine. Everybody can make money, everybody can enjoy the work, but fer cryin' out loud, don't treat your customers like criminals.
If you buy a book you can read it as many times as you want, yet you don't own the IP either. Same thing for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob the Insane
Sure, I however expect a decent user license, not the sort of crap they try to push onto us these days.Quote:
Not Windows, not MS Office, not IE, not your games, none of it owned by you. You own license(s) to use it and the copies of the media containing it.
It's pretty much the same discussion as with the music industry and how they claim owning something on cd doesn't mean you have the right to own it on mp3. You buy the cd for the music, you don't own it in the IP way and you shouldn't, but you payed money to be able to listen to the music (or the recording), however you prefer. This tends to be the way the consumer views the deal.Quote:
Is this not the case?
If it is they why do we get so upset when companies make an effort to enforce this aggreement that we have entered into?
Is it because the aggreement is not properly defined at time of purchase? Because it is inherently "wrong"?
I think we need a standard for 'proper use' of software, which protects consumers against this sort of thing.Quote:
If it only when they are overly streniously implimented? Is it because the limited number of installs implies a distinct lifespan for the software becuase lets face it, we are going to upgrade machines...
EDIT: well, Lemur said it better than me.