Schoolgirl arrested for refusing to study with non-English pupils

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I don't understand these people. Why would somebody be arrested for asking to change groups. People do that all the time in my science classes and I just say that they can/can't depending on the situation.

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So asking to change groups is normal then Avlvs, it isn' t something that the teacher school or police feels it is neccasry to take disciplinary measures over .
So doesn't that mean that this cannot have been over simply asking to change groups , it was to do with alledged verbal racial abuse instead .

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either learn our language or get out of our country basically.

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Now that is interesting , isn't it your view that anyone who isn't "white" and christian shouldn't be in your country anyway regardless of if they speak the language or not .
Or was that someone else called ragnar who espoused those views ?

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Originally Posted by Ser Clegane

I assume that your statement is actually not directed at me, as I did not touch the issue of the police officer ~;)

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*shoots himself in the head.*

My apologies. :bow:

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Now that is interesting , isn't it your view that anyone who isn't "white" and christian shouldn't be in your country anyway regardless of if they speak the language or not .
Or was that someone else called ragnar who espoused those views ?

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Firstly i am a atheist, secondly i don't hate all people of colored race, i just see the British to be superior as i am British, the same could be said about a German man thinking that Germans are better than any other nation, it called being nationalistic which isn't exactly a bad thing in my opinion, but i forgot at the org if it ain't liberal then it ain't right.

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Originally Posted by King Ragnar

Firstly i am a atheist, secondly i don't hate all people of colored race, i just see the British to be superior as i am British, the same could be said about a German man thinking that Germans are better than any other nation, it called being nationalistic which isn't exactly a bad thing in my opinion, but i forgot at the org if it ain't liberal then it ain't right.

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So someone who is 3rd-generation immigrant, speaks only English, and is going to go and do some high-class degree, is still worse than some idiot stealing a car, but who is 100% pure in-bred Anglo-Saxon?

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Originally Posted by King Ragnar

Firstly i am a atheist, secondly i don't hate all people of colored race, i just see the British to be superior as i am British, the same could be said about a German man thinking that Germans are better than any other nation, it called being nationalistic which isn't exactly a bad thing in my opinion, but i forgot at the org if it ain't liberal then it ain't right.

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Oh my word!

Special Measures is basically the school ha failed, the head teacher has been removed and everyone is under extreme stress that they might get sacked.

So, better to report every incident however minor it may be, so that the buck stops on someone else's desk. Teacher tells the new headteacher, who is acutely aware that their predecessor has just been sacked. So they tell the police. They are aware than although this is utter bull, to ignore it could have nasty consequences, especially if the headteacher is later in a position where they have to squeal that they did tell the police, but nothing was done. Far harder to ignore a governmental taskforce than a mere member of the public.

Hence, step by step the insane gets done, with every step a self-serving back protecting exercise.

I should know - at the whiff of trouble health professionals kick bad new upstairs as fast as they can.

~:smoking:

Its sad but true, in the majority of proffessions people are afraid to take responsibility or use their inititive in case of legal fallback, its terrible - and causes things to work much less efficiently :shame:

A recent case: Patient X was refusing treatment that a consultant felt was required. It eventually wasn't given as the legal department didn't agree.

Yup, there's a yellow streak right to the top. In this case I had to explain the same things to the patient repeatedly (I was told to do so) to ensure that social services had witnessed it! All in in all her treatment took an admission probably twice as long, and in terms of man hours to treat several multiples.

If the government would give doctors back the power to make decisions and make human error not a career ending mistake it would help enormously.

Generally, no doctor will get sued for ordering too many tests, or plugging away at a dying patient regardless of cost or pain. But dare to make a decision based on 40 years of practice, and you could be taken to the cleaners.

So we over prescribe, treat test results even if the patient looks fine and in the other extreme let people die following a protocol rather than think, as that might be viewed as unsound practice.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by King Ragnar

Firstly i am a atheist, secondly i don't hate all people of colored race, i just see the British to be superior as i am British, the same could be said about a German man thinking that Germans are better than any other nation, it called being nationalistic which isn't exactly a bad thing in my opinion, but i forgot at the org if it ain't liberal then it ain't right.

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good god. Lol find that Funny, and you want me to say Amercians are better the British since I'm A Amercian? :laugh4: :inquisitive:

:no:

Yeah, my mother's worked for the NHS for 20 years, and she never stops complaining about its inefficiency etc. (especially with the new budget cuts this year)

I don't blame the government though, i think its just the way society is now (following america - which i think is even worse) 0 they could try to give more legal protection to doctos, but it would be a very unpopular move. :furious3:

:2thumbsup:

It is the government - not just this one in part.

We have come from a "only spend what you have, save for a rainy day" society to one that expects everything now, and seems oblivious to the fact they might have to pay for it. Responsibility as an individual is pretty low. After all, there's the government to help, and don't you dare try to say that some problems are self inflicted as that's unPC.

In the NHS itself, people are promised that everything is getting better and faster. All services are free, and doctors aren't even allowed to criticise patients for being morbidly obese / smokers etc etc.

Imagine an NHS where to go to A&E was £10. If you've broken your arm, this is nothing. If you've had a cold for 2 days you might reconsider coming in. (I've had patients with a sore throat for 6 hours by the way...) A small change, but imagine the reduction in garbage ailments that comes through the door - or else a good revenue source.

An NHS where abuse really really isn't tolerated. Violent drunk? They get restrained and sedated. They got drunk, they took the poison, so why do we deal with the abuse? And in general, abusive patients are told to shut up or get out. We might then have far more time to treat people that are ill and non-abusive.

An NHS where either it is a monopoly, or private. Not this somewhere in the middle. Then when a contract is up for grabs, tender it out as one. "We want 100,000 PCs - who can do the best deal?"

An NHS where managers are not jumped up nurses. Amongst Nurses many positive features, brains ain't one of them. And when they are promoted up to managers from clinicians they are not even well trained! I've had meetings where basically us doctors ignore the managers completely, as they don't even know stock levels of crucial equipment in their own departments. Best ask the ourselves as we use the stuff.

Oh, and less of them. Senior clinicians need to get a manager to rubber stamp temporary nurses. The nurses are needed. The manager isn't there. So why the manager at all? The senior nurse has bone the job for over 10 years. She knows what she's doing.

The latter changes can be put in place by the government. As can stating what drugs are and aren't allowed. It required temporary unpopularity, showing that voters are responsible for their own lives. A bitter pill, but one required.

Doctors are professionals. If a mechanic beaks one's car, generally you don't sue the sod. So why doctors?

~:smoking:

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If a mechanic beaks one's car, generally you don't sue the sod. So why doctors?

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What are you saying? Doctors shouldn't be held responsible if they're grossly negligent and cause damage to a patients health?

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

Doctors are professionals. If a mechanic beaks one's car, generally you don't sue the sod. So why doctors?

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You make some strong points, but not this one. If a mechanic breaks my car, I sure do sue him, especially if he has done it through negligence. Same with any professional - all of whom are liable for their advice/actions - that's why they're professionals with professional liability insurance.

Because when a doctor screws someone's health up and gets sued, it ain't him that gets to personally pay, is it now?*

EDIT for caveat: Unless he's been so rampantly negligent that even the GMC can't cover for him.

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

You make some strong points, but not this one. If a mechanic breaks my car, I sure do sue him, especially if he has done it through negligence. Same with any professional - all of whom are liable for their advice/actions - that's why they're professionals with professional liability insurance.

Because when a doctor screws someone's health up and gets sued, it ain't him that gets to personally pay, is it now?*

EDIT for caveat: Unless he's been so rampantly negligent that even the GMC can't cover for him.

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I was going to make this point myself, till I decided this can't possibly be what he meant...

Otherwise I hope I'll never be under his care ~:help:

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Originally Posted by King Ragnar

they shouldnt be allowed in a english school if they cannot speak english at all.

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100% percent right whats the point in letting someone here who can't speak our language or will learn it and it's going to get worse with all the people from the countries that are joining the EU. Cut down my ass. I was recently working somewhere that had 3 polish people inside it and one of them had been in the country for one week. (edited for language by Ser Clegane)

- edit the language :2thumbsup:

Its not that bad, i live right near the UK polish centre and they're very nice people, they all try to learn english (especially those in schools - people go to school to learn, including learning languages) - whats wrong with them having jobs, even if they've only lived here a week? It's what they've come to the country for, - at leats they are'nt standing round on the street.

:2thumbsup:

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I was recently working somewhere that had 3 polish people inside it and one of them had been in the country for one week.

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Well boo~hoo for you~:mecry:
how traumatising it must have been to have 3 foriegners at work in one place .:dizzy2:

As for ragnars post , well what can you say to that :beam:
you don't even have to supply the rope for some people to hang themselves:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

Edited for language by Ser Clegane

~:wave:

Was it something I said ?:shrug:

apparently :2thumbsup:

Doctors that are accused of wrongdoing can be suspended for months / years. As I said, their career is over - even if they did nothing wrong at all. They are tainted by the mistake.

And yes, there is a massive difference between gross negligence and a mistake. In my line of work people do die from mistakes.

Tests are interpreted, and interpreted results are combined to a care plan. Each point there is room for error - ignoring factors such as lab mixups or incorrect reports.

Unlike cars, people can not have broken parts fixed. We can't replace something we break, and people can't be restarted. Therefore it's hardly surprising that doctors increasingly practice defensive medicine, ensuring that whatever else they can't be sued.

~:smoking:

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Was it something I said ?:shrug:

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Bang smash crack!

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Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

Doctors that are accused of wrongdoing can be suspended for months / years. As I said, their career is over - even if they did nothing wrong at all. They are tainted by the mistake.

And yes, there is a massive difference between gross negligence and a mistake. In my line of work people do die from mistakes.

Tests are interpreted, and interpreted results are combined to a care plan. Each point there is room for error - ignoring factors such as lab mixups or incorrect reports.

Unlike cars, people can not have broken parts fixed. We can't replace something we break, and people can't be restarted. Therefore it's hardly surprising that doctors increasingly practice defensive medicine, ensuring that whatever else they can't be sued.

~:smoking:

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Now that's a position I can agree with - an overly litigious society causes way too many side effects, and doctors are at the forefront of this because people expect medicine to be an exact and simple science. I imagine your patients expect you to solve everything now and perfectly and the government encourages this perception by talking about markets/consumers etc.

And I also agree that the suspension process is way too sensitive, unwieldy and takes way too long to resolve.

Anyway, enough of this tangent :bow:

This is a case study in self loathing morons who can't handle the fact that England does infact exist.

If they wanted the girl to not speak english they should have assigned her a foriegn language course instead of a science course.

This is a story about a girl wanting to learn and so wanting to be in a group that could actually speak English, but a far leftist loonatic teacher having the police arrest her for that. Of course the pathetic school has made up a story to demonize the girl.

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Originally Posted by Horatius

England does infact exist.

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agreed

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If they wanted the girl to not speak english they should have assigned her a foriegn language course instead of a science course.

This is a story about a girl wanting to learn and so wanting to be in a group that could actually speak English, but a far leftist loonatic teacher having the police arrest her for that. Of course the pathetic school has made up a story to demonize the girl

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.

:beam:

1. they did want her to speak englihs, and the foreign kids would learn english in time (probably more qucikly when being near english speakers)
2. but there is no proof (or even inclination) that the teacher is far left, or a loonatic - its already been discussed as to why the police got involved
3. the girls mother told the newspaper about the story, not the school, the school did nothing to demonize the girl - she was evidently rude to the foreign students, something that should be punished (although not by police)

:2thumbsup:

Woah! You expect a school to punish someone??? I don't see that happening - the parents would complain, and the school is already on special measures.

~:smoking:

:idea2: wishfull thinking :2thumbsup:

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This is a case study in self loathing morons who can't handle the fact that England does infact exist.

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Errrr....... that makes no sense at all .
Perhaps I read the wrong topic , was this the topic where english people said they hated being english and denied that englnd in fact existed ?
Or was that an imaginary case study in a land far far away over the rainbow then 2nd left till the roundabout and straight on to next monday.

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Originally Posted by BDC

So someone who is 3rd-generation immigrant, speaks only English, and is going to go and do some high-class degree, is still worse than some idiot stealing a car, but who is 100% pure in-bred Anglo-Saxon?

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Hey King Ragnar, could you answer this question? I thought it was rather good and thought I'd post it again in case you missed it :smash:

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Originally Posted by Horatius

This is a case study in self loathing morons who can't handle the fact that England does infact exist.

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Right. Of course it is. Why, oh why don't I have the capacity to see that. Of course a teacher who tells a school kid which group she must be in is a self loathing moron who cannot handle the fact that England does in fact exist. Quite obvious when you state such a complex and in depth argument with such adroit aplomb handling.

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Originally Posted by Horatius

If they wanted the girl to not speak english they should have assigned her a foriegn language course instead of a science course.

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No, as someone who has taught EFL (English as a Foreign Language) the best methods revolve around immersion. Sure some classes will have to be ESL but the rest should be standard ones. Afterall it helps with intergration. You do want those foreigners to intergrate and learn about the local culture or do you want them to become isolationists and cling to all their old ways and reject the local one? Your choice.

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Originally Posted by Horatius

This is a story about a girl wanting to learn and so wanting to be in a group that could actually speak English, but a far leftist loonatic teacher having the police arrest her for that. Of course the pathetic school has made up a story to demonize the girl.

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She didn't turn up to the school the day before. If she really wanted to learn, no matter the scenario she was put into she would be able to overcome it. She had the benefit at least of being able to read the instructions, talk to the girl who spoke english and the ability to talk to the teacher. Instead she threw a hissy fit and stormed out of the class. And when called back into it made derogratory comments about the other students. She must be a model student.

Somehow, someway... I don't know how he's hidden it, but

it's Bush's fault.

The school was 2% minority and all of them were in one group! My Gawd! If they are going to school they should have a rudmentary grasp of english. Here in TEXAS we use ESL (English as a second language) The only probelm with this gem of bearucarcy is the students and teachers (both of whom are Mexican 99% of the time) just end up speaking spainish. This is a huge problem and one of the reasons we fall behind in test scores. Lardeo Brownsville McAllen all of which are 90% Mexican have some of the worst test scores in the nation. We need to change this.

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Originally Posted by Horatius

This is a story about a girl wanting to learn and so wanting to be in a group that could actually speak English, but a far leftist loonatic teacher having the police arrest her for that. Of course the pathetic school has made up a story to demonize the girl.

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Ya, before you know it people get facist sympathies and start channeling Hitler, better cook these brains while they are still moldable. All elements that may halt the comming of the utopia should be removed, with force if necesary. Soft facism at it's finest, we will tell you what to think, become, trancend. Always amazes me, every country/city/organisation does the same thing. They all want to be the special case where it works, and go trough tremendous lengths to keep the illusion real. Like arresting a girl because she thought of what is good for her. She should have thought, now what can I do to make it better for these poor immigrants that still don't have a plasma screen.

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This is a story about a girl wanting to learn

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This amuses me. I attended a high school of a similar ilk to this one, and recognize the character. Believe me, I doubt learning was uppermost in her mind.

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Originally Posted by Big King Sanctaphrax

This amuses me. I attended a high school of a similar ilk to this one, and recognize the character. Believe me, I doubt learning was uppermost in her mind.

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You sure seem to know a lot about her. How does it benefit her that she has to work with people that just got dragged straight from the third world? If you were a parent and your son daughter is a straight A student(dunno if this lady was), and she is forced to work with people she cannot understand? And if she complaints about it, gets arrested like a common criminal? If these students don't speak english the school should make sure they do, but what do they do? They throw their crazy ideals about a big happy world with all colors dancing and bulletproof rainbows on a young girls lap that needs her education because she lives in the real world, where there isn't an army of heavily funded multicultists to protect her.

She[/I] is alone. Seeing most of the brits reaction to this case of extreme leftist facism, she is very very alone.

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

Somehow, someway... I don't know how he's hidden it, but

it's Bush's fault.

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You Americans, thinking everything revolves around you.

It's Blairs fault!