Multiplayer M2TW forums

I have once thoughed of creating a forum where clans can hang out.. where they can have their recruit topics. Where they can be informed of tourney. Where they can hang aroud. Where they can share stuff concerning MP. Where they can chat about factions, units from MP view of point. Where they can simply hang out with their best friends from others clans. Where they can where they can where they can.... etc etc :D :D. But i didnt have time to do it. :(

Anyways it hink it would help the comunity.. well thats my opinion. :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Orda Khan

I already see an element of this with certain members. What happens when some enthusiastic youngster posts some ideas on tactics only for someone to post a replay showing that he 'pwned' these tactics? Then the huge egos and personalities who believe they truly are some glorious General begin. I've seen all that before and I'm not interested.
In that link you will see my reply and it is precisely for these reasons.

---

This is where the Moderator/s of the forum would be duty bound to step in and ensure that it goes no further. That is what they are there for.

Orda: I understand your worries about the new forums. Sorry I misunderstood your previous statements on the MP community. I realized we do not want a repeat of what happened here during the STW/MTW days and the reasons for the MP split to the .net. That was why I thought it would be a good idea to set it up on a trial basis and also designate someone known and respected by all in the MP community. Cheetah, Tomisama, Ichi?

I also realize that things will naturally be a bit more "exciting?" in the MP forums than in the regular discussion forums. :laugh4: It is the nature of the beast. But in the past, even during those turbulent times, the MP community remained tight and it was fun to log in to the .org each and every day. You never knew what to expect. The trick is to allow a certain amount of banter (such as the one between 7Bear7 and Denali), while quickly putting a lid on more serious arguments. Most of the .org staff has been around the block and know how to handle such things. I have great confidence in them.

If we consider it a trial, to see if it works as planned, we can set a date to evaluate its success. If it has gotten out of hand and is more trouble than it is worth, I will be the first to say; "Get rid of it." If it isn't being used much and is just taking up space; "Get rid of it."

I just believe we need to do "something" after all this time, to try to get everyone to interact again and to start enjoying coming here, without having to worry about getting in the middle of any arguments. There is room enough for everyone to have their own space and get to know each other so everyone will be familiar with each other's backgrounds and how they came to believe the things they do about this game. There is something to be learned by all, if we just try to listen and ask questions instead of always trying to make some point to support our discussions.

So: Does everyone think it necessary to put this to some sort of vote? Like the HOF awards? It is something that will effect everyone who participates here and you may want to consult them on their opinions. Or do we tell everyone it is to be a trial basis and then consult everyone at the end of the period to see if they want to keep or get rid of it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TosaInu

To each his own. You like cola I prefer milk. You are not hurting me when you drink cola, I don't hurt you when I drink milk.

---

Whilst I whole heartedly agree, a certain couple of Orgers are constantly trying to persuade us milk is bad and cola is better, refusing to agree to disagree. I think its ironic that even a thread about moving mp here at the org forward they manage to spark yet another of these older players vs newer players.

Anyway, if I may bring this thread back kicking and screaming on topic...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TosaInu

To each his own. You like cola I prefer milk. You are not hurting me when you drink cola, I don't hurt you when I drink milk.

---

Unfortunately that is not our case.

The case is that we have two members who has nothing to contribute to the community other then highly negative and insulting comments.

Each and every tactical thread degenerated into a fake "old vs new" debate because of these members. I am saying fake because it is never the "old community" (as if the old community would be such solid entity) vs the new, it is always these two members baiting a debate.

Even the most innocent thread like this degerated into a debate because of them.

One solution would be to ignore these members, unfortunately there are always new victims who can be baited.

Another solution is that if you could talk to them as both of them are your clan mates.

Perhaps you have an other solution which I am glad to hear.

The point is that as long as these members do not change their behavior each and every tactical thread will end up this way. This hurts the community (which does exist contrary to the claims made by these members), hurts those who would be willing to engage in a meaningful discussion, and in general creates a hostile, counterproductive environment.

Tosa please do something.

Thank you.
Lional of Cornwall, Realm Advisor of the Round Table Knights, aka. Cheetah

A community does not exist here because certain people want it to stay that way, while at the same time revelling in the past. Well how could there be no M2TW community when immediately a torunament was set up by Monarch/Bedivere/Naiver and attracted 36 or so clans. Then there are the TWPL, CWC, CWB. The community exists and in great harmony, though you refuse to allow its presence to be felt here. And when people start asking for this, there is a cry to moderate the thread. There is a reason why there are only 15 or so MP people who post here atm, and it is because there is nothing for us here. The .ORG is a great place for the community to come together, but if you prefer in a nostalgic idea of the past and fear the present, then we will operate elsewhere.

And Orda, there are people who play and enjoy this game, so why do you even post in the M2TW section? Just to continue to spread your discontent. Your negative energy is not appreciated :furious3:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cheetah

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TosaInu

To each his own. You like cola I prefer milk. You are not hurting me when you drink cola, I don't hurt you when I drink milk.

---

Unfortunately that is not our case.

---

Cheetah is right, in this case we have 3 groups, the cola drinkers and the milk drinkers, and they respect eachother and a couple of persons (about 3 max) who prefer their homebrew and they do anything to let us drink it, even tho we won't want it and everyone knows it tasts like cats piss

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stig

, even tho we won't want it and everyone knows it tasts like cats piss

---

lol, I actually did lol at that one :laugh4:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cheetah

Unfortunately that is not our case.

---

I know.

Quote:

---

The case is that we have two members who has nothing to contribute to the community other then highly negative and insulting comments.

---

-Moving back and forth, analysing: the two have not posted in this thread.
-Nothing is too absolute.
-I see the point, and while there's room to air disappointments with the game, always been always will be, there are good and not so good ways to do it.

Quote:

---

Each and every tactical thread degenerated into a fake "old vs new" debate because of these members. I am saying fake because it is never the "old community" (as if the old community would be such solid entity) vs the new, it is always these two members baiting a debate.

---

STW released -> Minesweeper was much better. MTW released -> STW was much better. RTW released -> MTW was much better. M2TW released -> RTW was much better. Every release saw a group of disgruntled members glorifying the past. Warranted or not, others try to enjoy the new game.

Quote:

---

Even the most innocent thread like this degerated into a debate because of them.

---

That's too much credit. But yes, it's sad when such things happen and they do.

Quote:

---

One solution would be to ignore these members, unfortunately there are always new victims who can be baited.

---

'Baiting' is not just by these two, but it's often called friendly banter.

Quote:

---

Another solution is that if you could talk to them as both of them are your clan mates.

---

:grin: So, we have the same forumrules for about 6 years, a staff who constantly explains to play nice, all of you have some experience with negative interaction and the destruction resulting from it and all that is ignored? But Tosa talking to his 'clanmates' will fix everything? Ok, I see the point. I like to join RTK, FEAR, Ugly, Silent Assassins, 7Bear7, Kenchikuka, Grey Wolves and all other clans. You accept me? I'm happy and honored. Can we now play nice please?

Quote:

---

Perhaps you have an other solution which I am glad to hear.

---

Yes, I do, several actually. But wouldn't it be nice if we all allowed each other some air and played fair?

Quote:

---

The point is that as long as these members do not change their behavior each and every tactical thread will end up this way. This hurts the community (which does exist contrary to the claims made by these members), hurts those who would be willing to engage in a meaningful discussion, and in general creates a hostile, counterproductive environment.

---

True, but again: it's too much credit for two people.

Quote:

---

Tosa please do something.

---

Quote:

---

Right now, the tourney and clan messages (no not the 'bloodbad' ones, but that's not the only aspect of clans is it?) are 'swamped' in the other MP related topics here.

---

I think the BadBlood ones are here as well

Quote:

---

Yes there are a "Silent" few who use fake tags to be "Silent" about themselves. Some use this "Silent" tag method because they are so obnoxious in their regular tag they have been "Silenced" by the majority of people and put on ignore/banned.

Which coins a phrase, "Silence" is golden?

---

:inquisitive:

Looks like you want a warzone to me bottum?

And yes, thats the only response your going to get out of me.
~:rolleyes:

I think a warzone would be a good idea, because it might stimulate more activity on these forums.... they've been rather dead as of late.

Look! Even Bottom wants a warzone! I'd say do it.

I just wanted to add, 7bear recruited Furi, showed him the basics of the game, but SA taught him how to Own. Most of how good furi is, was in fact self taught by himself. SA just did some good in him with team games, etc.

Think before you say things bottom, you might not look as silly ;)

You all are wrong: Furious learned to play so well, by constantly chasing after my men in all those 4v4s we played against each other. :laugh4:

It is pretty simple: If certain clan members do not play nice on the new forums, then they would not be welcome and if necessary, the mods/admins know what they would need to do. You can't let a few people ruin everything for the rest. We never let that happen in the past, and I am sure you guys won't let it happen now.

Quote:

---

You all are wrong: Furious learned to play so well, by constantly chasing after my men in all those 4v4s we played against each other.

---

Those were great games Elmo, I liked the vikings ones the best.

I was refering to a comment that some one else made which is very well known fact to players online. Unfortunatly while everyone has an opinion about a certain subject, not everyone will agree with it. So some bantering is to be expeced in this case from these types of people. Regardless I stand by what I said, because at the end of the day, certain people are obnoxious to new players in the lobby all the time. To pertend it doesn't happen or not say anything is not being honest with yourself and hurts the community IMO.

The point is, to create a forum with replays and screenshots will increase this behaviour with some people. How about posting only replays where you loose only. I think it would give a better thought on what you did wrong in a game than displaying vanity. It would also curb comments on who killed who. A real skilled player will look into ones mistakes and learn from them and not try to be a poster boy.

As for the Warzone on the .net, it was nothing but cruel pointless unending pile of rubbish at times and it doesn't belong here.

How many of you save replays of your loses, just curious?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 7Bear7Bottom

How many of you save replays of your loses, just curious?

---

I do. Why do you think I always need more diskspace?

You cast an interesting idea 7Bear7Bottom. Ask people to post a replay of their defeat first and being critical, yet civil about it. Not the I had a bad hairday excuse, or worse my ally did it, or he cheated. Perhaps it will make people realise that critics is not the same as bashing and make them have more sympathy for the other.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TosaInu

I know.

---

I am glad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TosaInu

-Moving back and forth, analysing: the two have not posted in this thread.

---

Indeed, only one of them posted here and it was enough to turn the thread into an ugly debate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TosaInu

-Nothing is too absolute.

---

Indeed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TosaInu

-I see the point, and while there's room to air disappointments with the game, always been always will be, there are good and not so good ways to do it.

---

Indeed, and the majority of the people here are just fed up with the "not so good ways" these people vent their frustration. Also I would be the most happy if they actually would vent their frustration about a game which they do play. Unfortunately that is not the case.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TosaInu

STW released -> Minesweeper was much better. MTW released -> STW was much better. RTW released -> MTW was much better. M2TW released -> RTW was much better. Every release saw a group of disgruntled members glorifying the past. Warranted or not, others try to enjoy the new game.

---

As I said above I would be most happy if these people would restrict themselves making comments about games that they do play. Unfortunately thit is not that case. They keep making repetitive, irritating and highly frustrating comments about:
- CA, how they are unwilling to fix the bugs (as if they could read the mind of CA people)
- about other members who dare to enjoy the game and dare to disagree with them, like that these members "have low standards" and "dont know anything about game balancing"
- about the community, claming it does not exists (no comment)
- demanding to close down the MP forums (why is he posting here then?)
- advertising their own mod in each and every tactical discussion (plainly the wrong forum)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TosaInu

That's too much credit. But yes, it's sad when such things happen and they do.

---

It is indeed sad. But shall we leave it without a word? Or is it too much to ask something to be done?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TosaInu

'Baiting' is not just by these two, but it's often called friendly banter.

---

Friendly banter is by definition between friends. The majority of these debates are not friendly banter. As I said before, indeed there are people who take the bait and jump in these debates. Yes I agree that these people too should show more restraint and self-controll. However, it cannot be an excuse for those two members I am talking about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TosaInu

:grin: So, we have the same forumrules for about 6 years, a staff who constantly explains to play nice, all of you have some experience with negative interaction and the destruction resulting from it and all that is ignored? But Tosa talking to his 'clanmates' will fix everything? Ok, I see the point. I like to join RTK, FEAR, Ugly, Silent Assassins, 7Bear7, Kenchikuka, Grey Wolves and all other clans. You accept me? I'm happy and honored. Can we now play nice please?

---

Unfortunate it is, these two members are not RTK, FEAR, Ugly, Silent Assassins, 7Bear7, Kenchikuka, or Grey Wolves.

They are Mizus. That is why I asked you and not anyone else. I hope that as a member of the Mizu clan they listen to you more than to anyone else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TosaInu

Yes, I do, several actually.

---

Please dont hold them back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TosaInu

But wouldn't it be nice if we all allowed each other some air and played fair?

---

That is all I am asking for. That those who have nothing else to contribute but negative and frustrating comments, those who have not even played the game, those whos opinion is limited to demanding the MP forums to be closed down and declaring that the MP community does not exist should perhaps give more room to those who actually play the game and are willing to engage in a meaningful discussion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TosaInu

True, but again: it's too much credit for two people.

---

Unfortunately it is not. It seems that they have all the time to post on a forum which is about a game that one of them have not event played, one of them does not even have the intention to play, both of them finds broken beyond repair and both of them hates with passion.

I am willing to let the negative comments go, since I DO understand the frustration a lot of the old MP guys feel, since I was at the same point during the entirety of RTW. I think they understand the the old TW community is dwindling in numbers and will soon be gone for the most part. I also think they see the writing on the wall and were just stating their dissatisfaction and frustration, one last time, at those who appear to have finally abandoned the idea of recreating the old MP days of STW/MTW. I will always look back on those days with fond memories and know that it was the Golden Age of TW.

However, in recent months I decided to move forward, even if it will never be the same amount of fun as I had back then. I have even gone so far as to rejoin the clan community by joining the Hunter clan. Ugly is still going strong, but I thought if I was to be involved in helping the clan community increase its numbers and to promote the MP side of M2TW, I needed to be an integral part of the current clan community once more. Learning how it operates, learning about the players, the clans, the interactions . . . everything that gives the MP community "atmosphere".

I must say, compared to the old STW/MTW days, things in the current MP community appear pretty mild. The arguments are fairly civil and I haven't seen all the clan infiltration, spying, back-stabbing, exploiting, team-killing, game trolling, I used to see during the last days of MTW before RTW was released. I think a lot of the new people, as well as the old, have become a bit too sensitive to small disputes, without remembering or having ever known exactly how bad such things had been in the past. :) I got many, many stories I could tell of all the shenanigans! hehe

7Bear7Bottom: Yup those were some really fun games back then. That was where I taught a lot of you guys about fatigue management, and why it was not a good idea to over chase the enemy or come off those nice big hills you were defending. :) Furious actually refused to chase me anymore and threatened his teammates with bodily harm if they were thinking of it. :laugh4:

Tosa: I LOVE minesweeper! :smash:

Cheetah: You could hurt me by drinking milk, since I am allergic to dairy products! But just as long as you don't try to kiss me, I think things will be fine. :dancing:

Quote:

---

How many of you save replays of your loses, just curious?

---

I do, I save more or less every battle ... tho I sometimes forget to save replays

Quote:

---

Ugly is still going strong

---

Yes? mmm should check the forums again some time ~D

Were always around. Its just a lot of people don't know how many and exactly who is an old Ugly. hehe

Tosa, Puzz/Yuuki doesn't have to post in this thread in order to be trollish on the rest of the forum.

Quote:

---

Because ure constantly saying how rubbish it has all been since the start of mtw, alot of ure posts concerning multiplayer are very negative and i would be extremely surprised if u had played m2tw online

---

In a thread about sub-forums I posted my concerns. Knowing that things can become very ugly, I do not think a 'warzone' type of sub-forum is a good idea. I am very sorry that my feelings do not mirror yours but now it seems you are calling me a liar in a round about way. I suppose you consider that constructive?

Quote:

---

Orda: I understand your worries about the new forums. Sorry I misunderstood your previous statements on the MP community. I realized we do not want a repeat of what happened here during the STW/MTW days and the reasons for the MP split to the .net. That was why I thought it would be a good idea to set it up on a trial basis and also designate someone known and respected by all in the MP community. Cheetah, Tomisama, Ichi?

---

Thanks Elmo,
You at least, have noticed I was talking about sub forums. I wish a few others would. Nobody would want a repeat of all that which is why I posted my concerns. Unfortunately one of your choices wants action taken against those who do not agree with him.

Quote:

---

a certain couple of Orgers are constantly trying to persuade us milk is bad and cola is better, refusing to agree to disagree. I think its ironic that even a thread about moving mp here at the org forward they manage to spark yet another of these older players vs newer players.

Anyway, if I may bring this thread back kicking and screaming on topic...

---

Unlike yours, my thread was on topic. It contained no 'us and them' maybe you should read before you jump in with both feet?

Quote:

---

The case is that we have two members who has nothing to contribute to the community other then highly negative and insulting comments.

---

Concerns that we will have a repeat of the crap that went on? That is negative? Insulting? Perhaps you should show me the insult.

Quote:

---

Even the most innocent thread like this degerated into a debate because of them.

---

Incorrect. It degenerated because certain people, like yourself, failed to understand the content of my post.

Quote:

---

The point is that as long as these members do not change their behavior each and every tactical thread will end up this way. This hurts the community (which does exist contrary to the claims made by these members), hurts those who would be willing to engage in a meaningful discussion, and in general creates a hostile, counterproductive environment.

---

You mean you want covert censorship? How about we start with off topic posts such as yours?

BTW Cheetah, get your facts straight before putting them to print?

Quote:

---

There is a reason why there are only 15 or so MP people who post here atm, and it is because there is nothing for us here.

---

There has always been a MP section for each game. The reason why there are so few is because of the very things being proposed and the ugly scene that became known as 'Teragate' and 'Tosagate'. I don't want a repeat and I posted my concerns. Am I wrong to do that?

Quote:

---

The .ORG is a great place for the community to come together, but if you prefer in a nostalgic idea of the past and fear the present, then we will operate elsewhere.

And Orda, there are people who play and enjoy this game, so why do you even post in the M2TW section? Just to continue to spread your discontent.

---

I'm bored with this now but just to re-cap.....

I posted in a topic entitled 'Re: Multiplayer M2TW forums'.
I mentioned my concerns because of what has happened already

.......Orda

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cheetah

I am glad.



Indeed, only one of them posted here and it was enough to turn the thread into an ugly debate.



Indeed.



Indeed, and the majority of the people here are just fed up with the "not so good ways" these people vent their frustration. Also I would be the most happy if they actually would vent their frustration about a game which they do play. Unfortunately that is not the case.



As I said above I would be most happy if these people would restrict themselves making comments about games that they do play. Unfortunately thit is not that case. They keep making repetitive, irritating and highly frustrating comments about:
- CA, how they are unwilling to fix the bugs (as if they could read the mind of CA people)
- about other members who dare to enjoy the game and dare to disagree with them, like that these members "have low standards" and "dont know anything about game balancing"
- about the community, claming it does not exists (no comment)
- demanding to close down the MP forums (why is he posting here then?)
- advertising their own mod in each and every tactical discussion (plainly the wrong forum)



It is indeed sad. But shall we leave it without a word? Or is it too much to ask something to be done?



Friendly banter is by definition between friends. The majority of these debates are not friendly banter. As I said before, indeed there are people who take the bait and jump in these debates. Yes I agree that these people too should show more restraint and self-controll. However, it cannot be an excuse for those two members I am talking about.



Unfortunate it is, these two members are not RTK, FEAR, Ugly, Silent Assassins, 7Bear7, Kenchikuka, or Grey Wolves.

They are Mizus. That is why I asked you and not anyone else. I hope that as a member of the Mizu clan they listen to you more than to anyone else.



Please dont hold them back.



That is all I am asking for. That those who have nothing else to contribute but negative and frustrating comments, those who have not even played the game, those whos opinion is limited to demanding the MP forums to be closed down and declaring that the MP community does not exist should perhaps give more room to those who actually play the game and are willing to engage in a meaningful discussion.



Unfortunately it is not. It seems that they have all the time to post on a forum which is about a game that one of them have not event played, one of them does not even have the intention to play, both of them finds broken beyond repair and both of them hates with passion.

---

There you go again....
Like I posted earlier......Get your facts straight

........Orda

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cheetah

Indeed, only one of them posted here and it was enough to turn the thread into an ugly debate.

---

We're talking about this thread? Too much credit for one person.

Quote:

---

Also I would be the most happy if they actually would vent their frustration about a game which they do play. Unfortunately that is not the case.

---

Afaik, the person does play the game.

Quote:

---

Friendly banter is by definition between friends. The majority of these debates are not friendly banter.

---

I agree. The point is that many of such debates that are not to be classified as friendly banter, will be classified as friendly banter or not too harming when the colors are right. When the color is not right however.. Clancard games.

Quote:

---

Unfortunate it is, these two members are not RTK, FEAR, Ugly, Silent Assassins, 7Bear7, Kenchikuka, or Grey Wolves.

They are Mizus. That is why I asked you and not anyone else. I hope that as a member of the Mizu clan they listen to you more than to anyone else.

---

The point is missed.

Quote:

---

Please dont hold them back.

---

What's necessary will be done.

Quote:

---

That is all I am asking for. That those who have nothing else to contribute but negative and frustrating comments, those who have not even played the game, those whos opinion is limited to demanding the MP forums to be closed down and declaring that the MP community does not exist should perhaps give more room to those who actually play the game and are willing to engage in a meaningful discussion.

---

Agree, that would be great.

What do you guys think about my original idea? Bringing some1 from CA in here and to finally get in touch with them.

Even though tw has never been a real Multiplayer game but it does have a nice and also rather large mp community, not in relation to games like Age of Empires or even CoD or others of course but definitly worth to be mentioned.. it would be definitely time to work a bit togheter... the .Org would be the best place for that imo.

Hi everyone, ive never visited .org before mainly due to being quite new to the whole m2tw mp experience, but ill come to that in a moment. Firstly id like to introduce myself. Im a member of NF (Naked Fanatics mentioned earlier in the thread) and prior to getting more involved in the m2tw community i played Tribes 2 (a fps) very actively (and ill add some points to that in a second).

Anyway ive always been a big fan of the tw series but never really got into the mp aspect of it too much, i played the occasional LAN with friends who had the game but never online. However shortly before m2tw was released i decided to check out .com (where i believe most new players end up starting their tw adventures) and realised there was a fairly large community. Having finished playing Tribes 2 a while ago and not really being involved too much online I was looking for something to get involved with and thought id give the mp a go, where i found NF, and the rest as they say is history.

Well not quite so. Stig referred me to this thread and ive read through it with great interest, a lot of people have made some very good points and i dont even know where to begin to formulate all the ideas that sprung to mind when reading through it all. Firstly i joined NF to have fun, get to learn m2tw and generally have people i could play with regularly and have a laugh with and discuss how to improve. (This is how all this blabbering is going to link in with the topic at hand!) After playing more and more games we generally got in to the habit of writing up so called "Battle reports", posting some screenies, occasionally a replay if it was a really good fight and commenting on where we went wrong, what we could have improved etc etc.

There is no doubt in my mind this helped me tremendously. Not only gain a better understanding of what i could do to improve my gameplay, but simply to enjoy the game itself. Playing an online battle versus a random opponent is all well and good i find, but to be able to have a laugh about it afterward and discuss it makes it that much more enjoyable. Having been part of the Tribes 2 community i was very used to this being commonplace, very often there were threads on matches and clans and people discussed what went wrong, what went right etc, and being fairly new to this community i thought there would be a similar amount of activity on .com. Of course i was wrong, very few people tend to post there, and it seems in general at least for m2tw there isnt a place like this where such things happen, hence this whole discussion! I am definately for it, give it a try and im sure like Elmo said it will give new players a chance to learn and integrate into the community.

With regards to replays i dont see any harm in posting them. I know people have given opinions against them being posted, and i agree that posts such as "Look how i owned these n00b tactics" would be wholely unwelcome, but in general i think they can only be positive, including where tournaments are involved. Again referring back to Tribes 2, posting replays was commonplace. There even used to be a dedicated website for just replay posting for anyone and everyone to be able to watch, and there was even a community invented program which allowed people to watch matches live, as if on tv! If such a thing were available for m2tw im sure there would be people who would watch with interest the latter rounds of a tournament. All of this in no way harmed the T2 community. Yes there were clashes of opinions between clans and members but this will be the case in any online community.

IMO if you attempt to open up access to such stuff and discuss it, like Elmo said people, especially new members of the community will benefit, whilst vets shouldnt be harmed in any way. If a clan is truly good, even with its tactics available to view they should still be able to win. Like Stig said, football teams still lose to opposition teams even after studying their opponents in many different ways.

Hope my post makes sense and wasnt too much rambling, just my 2c from someone who is new to this community (not sure how many others are who have posted here!)

Welcome to the .org Starcy and also the M2TW MP community. :)

If you see me in the lobby, feel free to join my game and/or give me a shout and I can show you some of my more unusual armies I have made thus far. I think Stig likes one of them in particular. hehe

Quote:

---

I think Stig likes one of them in particular. hehe

---

How did you call it? ~D

I concur Starcy...

If Elmo's plot to create a renewed MP community forum here at the .org comes to fruition, I certainly would be delighted to contribute here since the .com MP forum has only =NF= members, Elmo and Stig as 'serious' contributors and I think is beyond saving at this point.

And also Stigglet, I will expect a PM of resignation in my inbox upon my return to the =NF= forums, such slanderous accusations that people there actually respect you will not tolerated.

heres my secrets on mp. here goes.

use lots of dismounted english knights, militia halberdiers and any type of spearmen for infantry.

mailed knights for cavalry with no upgrades.

and peasant crossbowmen.

wins everytime

please take full liberty with any two handed axemen too they are excellent and spearmen are very good at stopping cav charges. :)

are rocket launchers and ballistas really allowed in tournaments?

in ccs they apparently are... however, most tournies of old prohibited such units. the mtw pretty much outlawed arty as it had the uncanny knack of killing the general in the first volley.

i'd liek to see a mp community based forum with discussion of tactics and clan stuff develop here. the net was good in it's own right, and many of it's core values were set up in contrast to how the org was run/modded. however, that was a long time ago. something like the net, minus the warzone could flourish here, with the right group running/modding it and the more mature and reserved crowd reigning in the monkies who like to start trouble.

hey t1master maby you should go test the units your talking about before you say stuff that almost makes me lough to death... cmon now.. im fragile be nice to my lungs.

rocket lounchers have 3 volleys and cost 1.1k lol... among other major set-backs

ballistas do about the same amount of damage an archer unit would do...an guess what... those are the only 2 art units allowed in ccs rules:laugh4:

the thing is the ccs had the major portion of the tw community test and discuss the ruleset... its probably the most popular and well run through ruleset of them all... hell every game i join the rules are always ccs rules:laugh4:

Seems Pariya has trouble understanding what is written. Though I do enjoy reading his responses, since it is apparent he misunderstood the post he is replying to. Reminds me of the old SNL Rosanna Rosanna-Danna skits. :) If anyone is old enough to remember those from the 80's.

All T1 said was that they were allowed in CCS. You confirmed that, though you obviously read something into those few words which made you think he was saying they were overpowered and shouldn't be allowed. Too funny. :2thumbsup:

so then what artillery is allowed? rockets if used at the right time can do a lot of damage and the ballistas are shooting more accurate now then they did in the other games so why not serpentines and ribaults?

why not go read the long discussions different clans and people had as to why they decided that:dizzy2:

Why not provide a nice link for Mad Cat to do that? ~:rolleyes:

The reason why ballistas are allowed is simple: Other art units sometimes hit the target, sometimes not... it depends on luck, trebuchets, bombards etc have a very poor accuracy while ballistas hit their targets in the majority of cases (~99,9%).

The reason why rockets are allowed is, as pariya said, they costs 1100 Florins and have 3 volleys.

Here is the link where it started a while ago...
http://www.clancommunityshield.net/t...hp?threadid=75




Now pary... back in your cage!

Shall we go back on-topic gentlemen?

Thnx Denali. :) I will read through that link you so kindly provided.

Quote:

---

You cast an interesting idea 7Bear7Bottom. Ask people to post a replay of their defeat first and being critical, yet civil about it. Not the I had a bad hairday excuse, or worse my ally did it, or he cheated. Perhaps it will make people realise that critics is not the same as bashing and make them have more sympathy for the other.

---

I agree, you learn more from mistakes than you do from winning, though some people think winning is everything, which I feel very sorry for them, this in some way reflects on their personal life. It's very sad.

It's all in how you look at your performance. A very wise Bear once said to me...

Quote:

---

It's not about how many men you kill, but how many men you saved in your army.

---

When you train yourself in this philosophy, you be come more selective in your attacks, more cunning in your approach on the battle field and more selective in your units you take. We chat in the lobby togather all the time on how many loses we each took, not the other.

Try this on for a change, try and get under 200 loses in any battle or save 3/4 of your army and still win. If you can do that, that is an achievement of great skill.

So maybe we should post our loses first before running the banner up on how many wins we have. In the end I think it would help people more.

I would also like to see weird armies, or unorthadox army selections. I'm sure Elmo has a ton. But I also have a few that are just down right nasty but funny.

I'm working on one right now Bottom :) It is actually not one army, but a team army for a 4v4. hehe When I get it together and get 3 others to try it out, I will most definitely post it for all to enjoy, whether it is a win or a loss.

Though, your idea of having only the defeated players post the replay is a very nice way of insuring that things maintain a good atmosphere with no hard feelings. Plus, it will reduce any ego problems, since I am one of the few who actually are PROUD of their losses. hehe

Hey, was good chatting with ole Kuma today. We had many a great game way back when. :) I remember when he first decided to begin playing online regularly. As a matter of fact, I believe I was one of the first to play him. It was one of my few 1v1 games. I believe he won . . . Imagine that! :laugh4:

I would have kept all of my replays over the years, but my harddrive wouldn't hold the over 10,000 2v2 and up games I played.

i want elephants in tourney do you hear me.i wander in the patch if they will have mammothus imperator? they were still around then wasnt they. mount a general electric 20 mm vulcan on the back.

thats wat im talkin bout

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by t1master

in ccs they apparently are... however, most tournies of old prohibited such units. the mtw pretty much outlawed arty as it had the uncanny knack of killing the general in the first volley.

---

You mean the tourneys of old which were played on a totall different game to m2?

CCS rules were not made by admins, they were the fruits of a hell of alot of debating, more debating and polling on the ccs forums.

Back to the topic of the M2TW MP forums (yes, the boring technical stuff, sorry):

-This forum, may need a namechange. Purpose: anything that doesn't clearly fit the others?
-Forum to post about tournaments, clans?
-The learn to play MP forum?

Yes? No?

Maybe keep the Tournament Fields and just add in a

M2TW MP Knowlege Base?

or

M2TW MP Academy?

or you could even call it

M2TW MP University?

or since it is already in the MP section just call it:

The University or The Academy

I am not very good with names. :)

for pariya and monarch...


yest the tournies of old aka old tournaments like cwc, clan warbelt etc played on mtw and mtw:vi outlawed arty. infact the community in general during the mtw and mtw:vi had a standing rule on no arty... thought it was pretty clear, sorry for your poor comprehension skills ;)

Quote:

---

Maybe keep the Tournament Fields and just add in a

M2TW MP Knowlege Base?

or

M2TW MP Academy?

or you could even call it

M2TW MP University?

or since it is already in the MP section just call it:

The University or The Academy

I am not very good with names. :)

---

I support Elmo's preposition. I would go for ''The Academy''.

Suggested forum name....Academy A Guide to MP M2TW

This would embrace all aspects of the game perhaps.

The idea of an academy sounds excellent. You can post unit stats etc... and how they can be used to be most effective. Of course strategy as I have seen some players run straight into stakes and such and not understand why their cavalry just died. Also, I like the idea of replays and pics to actually see what an individual is talking about. A picture is worth a thousand words.

Quote:

---

as I have seen some players run straight into stakes

---

Hey Flim was desperate, he couldn't get me :laugh4:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by t1master

for pariya and monarch...


yest the tournies of old aka old tournaments like cwc, clan warbelt etc played on mtw and mtw:vi outlawed arty. infact the community in general during the mtw and mtw:vi had a standing rule on no arty... thought it was pretty clear, sorry for your poor comprehension skills ;)

---

I was being sarcastic, I thought you'd understand, obviously I overestimated. I *trying* to point out that you were randomly talking about old tournaments that wern't on the same game, so obviously they wouldn't be the same

So, now who fails to comprehend.

@ tosa, sorry.

if you are going to allow some artillery you might as well allow all of it or its going to unbalance the game and the timurids need their elephants so throw them in too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Monarch

So, now who fails to comprehend.

---

me? ;)

it wasn't random really, mad cat asked if art was allowed in tournies...

no worries monarch, it was more for the caged pariya :smash:

Think CCS is way too early before the next patch is to be released, it's like playing mtw1 before they patched it. All that debate will be for nothing if we get a huge change in game mechanics. I will be waiting for CWC rules, since they have the forethought of waiting for the next patch.

Quote:

---

-The learn to play MP forum?

---

Quote:

---

M2TW MP Knowlege Base?

---

No sounds too much like a commercial from Xerox or Microsoft.:laugh4:

Quote:

---

M2TW MP Academy?

---

I like this one.:2thumbsup:

Quote:

---

M2TW MP University?

---

Too snobby.:beam:

Quote:

---

-Forum to post about tournaments, clans?

---

MTW2 Community Events

Simple and to the point.

we are probably looking at march for a patch release so even if stuff doesnt work afterwards better work with it while you can. but since elmark is running the thread id like to talk about this art thing some more.

you know a lot of novice people are going to be awfully confused because you jump on them for having a basilisk while you are using a rocket launcher.yea they only have three salvos but if its timed right at close range your opponents center is gone.

i would rather charge a basilisk or a monster bombard then i would a rocket launcher so what is allowed and what isnt? i looked on the silent forum and couldnt find the thread someone gave me a link to. novice players are going to be teed off because clan players want to practice by tourney rules and novices dont understand them because they aint clear cut no art or ele.

if you ask me id prefer no rules at all it would still balance out. a ballista can snipe a general just as easy as a monster bombard.to me its either no art or all art anything else is going to unbalance the game.

First decide about the purpose of a forum 7Bear7Bottom, then look for a name.

So, we make 2 extra M2TW MP forums for now. We have three MP forums then, call them A, B and C for now. A is this current one, B is the MP Academy, C is Community Events. That correct?

Sounds good to me Tosa. :)

I think the main reason arty got such a bad reputation was, during the MTW1 days, a few of them had the uncanny ability of killing your general within 10 seconds after the game started. They also, prolonged an already long game, since you would start out with the 10+ minute arty battles, then move on to 15 + minute archer/crossbow/musket battles, then the 15+ minutes of cav skirmishes, then the 10+ minute final rush for the team who lost the cav/archer battles, and then another 10+ minutes cleaning up the last remnants of the losing army. Taking arty out of the equation sped up the number of games you could play and since both sides had access to the same arty, and since you couldn't avoid them in any way, they kind of countered each other out and were considered just a waste of time in team battles.

I am not so sure now if there would be a problem allowing artillery. I haven't played in a game that has allowed it yet. hehe It might offset some of the problems associated with muskets in LATE/ALL era games though. We would have to try a few games to find out. I am willing to play in any arty allowable games so anyone who wants to give it a shot, let me know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mad cat mech

we are probably looking at march for a patch release so even if stuff doesnt work afterwards better work with it while you can. but since elmark is running the thread id like to talk about this art thing some more.

you know a lot of novice people are going to be awfully confused because you jump on them for having a basilisk while you are using a rocket launcher.yea they only have three salvos but if its timed right at close range your opponents center is gone.

i would rather charge a basilisk or a monster bombard then i would a rocket launcher so what is allowed and what isnt? i looked on the silent forum and couldnt find the thread someone gave me a link to. novice players are going to be teed off because clan players want to practice by tourney rules and novices dont understand them because they aint clear cut no art or ele.

if you ask me id prefer no rules at all it would still balance out. a ballista can snipe a general just as easy as a monster bombard.to me its either no art or all art anything else is going to unbalance the game.

---

We've had this discussion alot recently mate, and ure point is valid and would make the game simpler but there are reasons as to why ballista and rocket launchers were accepted and others not...
Firstly many of the artillery units work on a basis of luck... u ureself could fire 5 volleys from a monster bombard and hit nothing whilst ure opponent with his volleys could've killed off ure general and made a nasty mess :idea2:
Many of these artillery pieces are designed strictly for sieges and therefore we as a community didnt feel a weapon that wasnt classed "anti personel" belonged on the field.
The ballista is accurate to the point that with each volley u know u will at least kill 3 men, it has been deemed accurate enough to be classed as anti personel weaponry. The rocket launcher is accepted because of the risk, 3 salvos... slow reload, slow rotation etc etc Ure always guarranteed to hit something therefore it had a case for being allowed. At 1100 florins it would be deemed risky by any competitor.
The competative side for multiplayer looks to measure and reward a players skill and his ability in defeating other player/s. Luck is not accepted in this as we feel it is a variable that cannot be controlled with many units.

Personally I don't care about Artillery, aslong as it doesn't use it's Fire Ammo, that's lethal, but normal Artillery hardly does big damage, maybe 60 units on my 1000 total. Archers do more damage if used well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by t1master

me? ;)

it wasn't random really, mad cat asked if art was allowed in tournies...

no worries monarch, it was more for the caged pariya :smash:

---

:bow:

(please accept my apologies for being snappy.)

Anywho...

Quote:

---

dont understand them because they aint clear cut no art or ele.

---

Just a point on this, I think you are automatically using the RTW (possibly mtw, I never played in online so wouldn't know) definition of art. But to a novice player, he wouldn't have played any tw before, so the definition of art is open to interpretation. I mean lets be honest ballista are more like crossbowmen than they are bombards.

Oh and it has to be said, to my knowledge nobody has taken any ballista or rocket artillery in CCS and we're well into round 2. Obviously people just don't like how slow they are, how expensive they are etc, so if they're not even worthy to take onto the field of battle...whats the point in banning them :/

Regards,

the serpentine is accurate and definetly designed for anti-personel. basilisk, cannon and culverins have high explosive capability. even though i dont want em dont leave out the overpowered catapults they are good antipersonel.

sure a monster bombard is not antipersonel but when you start talking about the advanced cannons they have that ability. ballistas arent exactly known historically for being a major decision maker in a battle but light cannon like serpentines would be nice that would make a gunpowder counter to rocket artillery which is gunpowder based.

Monarch is probably right that the "luck" factor is the biggest reason for arty being banned. Especially since you cannot dodge the shots.

I think you guys forgot one arty that was allowed in the past, wasn't it the organ gun?:laugh4: It was a very short range like 25 feet I think.

As for the forums.....

(A) can be a popery of topics like this one.

(B) For information, training, replays, and helping new players.

(c) For community events like even advertising vi get togathers on top of tournaments etc.

You basically have names for B and C, think A could maybe have a name like the Living Room, Lounge, Undercurrent, Back Stage, Limbo, The Reactor, The Chip Stand, Swordsmen Retreat (nah that isn't politically correct) maybe change that one to Visible Minority Majority Swords Person Reatreat, Playing Field, Spears-R-Us, The Think Tank, The Calvery Charge, Pickles and Mustard, The Back Wash, Grafflgrommits, Religious Zellots Hangout, or just call it the "I don't what to call this place but come in anyways and talk" forum.

But 3 is all you need IMO.:yes: