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I have trouble deciding on one faction. But since i had to choose, I took the Turks. Excellent cavalry, if not as good as some factions, atleast comparable. Excellent infantry, and a very strong late game. I loves'em. Also, once you get your Siphahi and Ottoman infantry upgrades to heavy mail, they look AMAZING.
But i also love the Gold and Yellow of the HRE.
England and HRE.
Too right.Quote:
Originally Posted by A Nerd
Byzantine empire as you have to fight everyone close to your borders from the very beggining till the end.
Byzantium for me. You are surrounded by enemies and are likely to fight wars on several fronts but have the units and economy to manage. Superb horse archers, good foot archers, decent infantry and cavalry. The roster is marred only by the dreadful spears and near total lack of gunpowder.
Second place goes to Scotland. You start stuck on the edge of the map, you most sensible first target is bigger and Catholic, you have no horse archers, the poorest selection of foot archers, weak heavy cavarly, and limited gunpowder units. On top of that the stand out unit (noble pikemen) is very tricky to use effectively. What's not to love.
Living dead girl!
I like Venice because it gives me everything I want; and for historical reasons.
Hellsbells, that's a tough one. England for Longbowmen, Turks for Janissary troops, Byzantium for Varaengan Guard and if you get swordsmith guild in Constantinople you can hold off the Crusades and Jihads forever, Milan for spear militia, Venice for the same reason plus I like their colour haha, Poland for the Strecznys, Denmark for been able to take Stockholm quickly, Scotland coz I'm Scottish and for the pikes, Papal States for the Papal Guard, France and HRE I've never played a proper campaign with them after 3 years (didn't have the patience to wait for Scots Guard until now...just about to start a game with France, don't like the Mongols, but want to give the Timerids a proper go.
If I have to pick I suppose it's England. rampaging through the world with my trusty Longbowmen is a blast and they are the only Nation I have completely taken over the world with.
Hmm... I like a challenge, so I thought Denmark was pretty fun seeing as they start small and helpless and I really like the idea of warlike clerics and best of all the Obudshär! Heheh, who doesn't like to have a "host of bad omens" on your side? Doesn't hurt that they really are bad news for anyone opposing them. I'm not sure I'm all that keen on the whole, no castles though as they are of no use to the danes, the best rangeweappons they can get are mercenaries and with all cities and a deacent hand with money they can afford them.
Milano was fairly fun because they are so overpowered, they are danes on steroids, anything the danes have the milanese have ten times better, it's sick really.
Oh, right, my vote goes to the Russians. Weak ass crap to begin with, they can't make money even if people throw them at them, but given time they can both bark and bite. (Seriously I think the cities made TWICE as much florins when I held them with Milano, not different cities, but the very same ones, the Russians are useless with money and that shortage makes things a tad harder.)
Yeah and they are their own masters, no pope, and no cheat jihads. Which means you can't jihad your way to awesomeness geting both gold and chevrons every 10 or so turns and since no one is Ortodox, you can't just conqure, but have to convert the populace as well. I don't understand the people who go "Oh I need non christians to attack, buhuu..." When you're catholic you have the world as your oyster, everything is catholic so you just have to take it, no need to waste time converting, just take and be done. (Which obviously make things a lot easier for catholics.) Once you're the sole catholic left (yeah take Rome) then the Pope will be your bitch any day of the week.
The turks have the best rooster from a cost-benefit point of view definitely and on top of that you can survive with cities alone, building Jannisary heavy infantry and siphais horse archers. Later on, you can add jannisary musketmen.
All of those are very flexible attributes:
- The Sipais have a decent ranged and close quarter attack.
- Jannisary Heavy Infantry has good melee attack, decent defense and a weapon that has bonus fighting armor and cavalry.
And to train any of this troops, you only need a city with 12,000 pop.
Finally the Jannisary musketmen have very decent melee attack. You could make an army of this units alone, place them in tight formation and witness all your enemies rout before reaching your positions while you murder family members from a distance.
The Spanish are also great, with their musket men, basilisks, tercio pikemen and Gendarmes, you can have only cities and once you secure the Iberian Peninsula, keeping the French out is relatively easy (even more so if you take Tolouse and Bordeaux). This wold apply for the Portuguese as well if they didn't need a castle to train the Aventureros.
Finally the French have great units but you need castles to train and heal them, had they have musketmen, they'd have the best rooster stat-wise.
Moors! Camel gunners FTW!
with my the mod Bulgaria total war its the Bulgarians of course Im a Bulgarian they have really long ranged archers and have the max of 31 missile attack and in real we really had pretty good archers,weabout the mod its The Germans(Holy Roman Empire)and France really cool shooters and heavy infantry+Gothic Knights,Really cool,fast,tough and strong Knights man
The Bulgarian Empire
Welcome to the org dakar, enjoy your stay.
Can you give a link to your mod?
Spain and the Moors (mostly Spain)
I don't know why, but they're awesome
For me, my Favorite has to be the Turks. Again. Because of the flexibility of their armylist: you can field both all-cavalry and all-infantry and do VERY well. All Cavalry against the Mongols makes fighting those annoying bastiches so much easier. But you still have excellent infantry options to defend your cities and castles: I slaughtered a TWO mongol hordes at the gates of Antioch, using only Saracen and Halberd Militia, along with a high chiv family member.
For my next favorite, it's probably the wonderful Portuguese. They can Blitz the Moors out of Iberia early on, and Almghuvars are excellent troops. A line of spear militia to hold the enemy in place, then your Almies can run around the flanks and slaughter the pinned enemy by showering attack 13 javs on them. ATTACK 13 JAVS. Knights die by the dozens.
I also like the Danes, as they have a very solid and dependable infantry roster. Viking raiders are just silly good, so long as you upgrade their armor.
Byzantines give a good campaign game. Variety of fighting styles, variety of terrain encountered and variety of enemies.
Basically you face pretty much all army types, from typical knight heavy catholic, to eastern horse archer factions like the Turks and the Mongols, to the infantry militia heavy italian armies, to the hybrid armies of Hungary and Russia and you can field similar variety armies to beat each opponent in his own style.
It was featured on the main page a while back. I'm personally annoyed at Bulgarians coming to M2TW communites only to spurt out "BULGARIA YEAH!" when this game has nothing to do with our country and nobody else cares. It's very frustrating...Quote:
Originally Posted by gollum
Right, thanks Myth.
The Tsardom of Bulgaria did play an important part in the middle ages, but M2TW doesn't cover all of the period and unfortunately the scale and scope of the grand campaign was such that only major major powers would be included (and some minors for marketing purposes :). Of course the Kingdoms campaigns rectify that to a certain extent, but a balkan campaign unfortunately wasn't included therein.
The Arab sieges of Constantinople and the golden age of the Tsardom of Bulgaria when the Byzantines went through a lot of hard time and grief i think deserve a TW campaign in its own right, and having a mod for that is great.
Another interesting period for a TW game at the area is that of the twillight days of Byzantium, approximately 1280-1380, with the Ottomans looming over the balkans and teh Venetians expanding their influence as the various peoples of the Balkans were independent powers that squabbled and only very occasoinally coallesced to fight the Muslim invaders but at the same time were fighting against each other to extent their influence.
Bulgaria has several noteworthy moments throughout it's history, from the founding at 680-681 until it's fall to the Ottoman Turks (various dates and years, depending on the sub-kingdom). I'm from Velko Tarnovo, which is the medieval capital of the country. The castle of Tsarevets is nested atop a very defensible hill and is nigh-on impossible to take by assault. (reference here though what you are seeing is a modern reconstruction, as the original fortress was razed to the ground by the Turks)
Now first I want to point out that anthropologically speaking the Bulgrians have little in common with the horse-riding old Bulgarian peoples who migrated over from Asia. In fact, 85% of our genome is ancient Thracian, predating that of the Russians and Poles (who also call themselves Slavs even though their genome points to them being part of the large Thracian tribe).
Under Khan Krum before being established as an Orthodox Tsardom, we reached Constantinople but could not take it due to lack of siege equipment and a Byzantine party ambushing the Khan and wounding him. The Bulgarian Horselords who were the ruling warlords at the time believed that the Khan is watched over by Tangra (their pagan deity) so if he were wounded this meant he had lost Tangra's favor and therefore was unfit to rule. This led to internal strife and the subsequent lift of the siege of Constantinople.
The second major point we have was indeed saving Byzantium's (BTW Byzantium is a made-up 17th century word. Much like Crusade. Historically this was Romelia or the Eastern Roman Empire) behind when Constantinople was besieged by the arabs. Bulgaria dispatched some 3000 ships and destroyed the Arab navy, allowing Constantinople to be supplied by sea.
Under Tsar Simeon II we had our Golden Age, but that was largely because of him studying and being brought up in Constantinople and thus being an educated man. He also lead an army towards the Capital and would have taken it, but was content to take Tessaloniki instead and be bought off by the Vasilevs.
The final noteworthy thing we did was that in 1205 Tsar Kaloyan destroyed the invading Latin and Crusader army. This was a battle of similar importance as the infamous Battle of the Ice won by Alexander Nevsky.
This time though, Tsar Kaloyan used light Cuman horse archers to constantly harass the encamped crusader armies, firing flaming arrows at their tents. The knights could not take the harassment and charged on, only to be lead into an ambush amidst the entangling terrain of a marshland (Kaloyan knew we could not beat them head on in an open field). There foot soldiers with hooked polearms and nooses on the end of sticks managed to pull the knights from their mounts and quickly coup-de-grace them whilst they recovered.
Apart from that most of the time Romelia (aka ERE) was stronger than us, but it was simply too distracted on other fronts. That did not stop them from holding us in some form of slavery for 200 years, though this might have done more good than bad for our culture and economy.
Then, when the Turks came and Bulgaria was divided into 3 sub kingdoms, we fell, our ruling and intellectual elite was massacred, our churches burned and our women raped. This continued on for 500 years, while the west had it's Renaissance and Enlightenment, we were uneducated peasants forced to toil under a failing feudal system.
So whilst we did indeed have some scattered achievements we do not hold as much importance as the sovereign kingdoms of the West nor as the invading Eastern nomads.
I would say France,Spain and The Holy Roman Empire
France:Excellent infantry.Powerful Cavarly
HRE:Good selection of troops,espically the gothic kinghts(HRE main's Strentgh)
Spain:GOOD
`
Thank you for the interesting historical account Myth.
Two points; one is that Byzantium was called by its people Romania (Litteraly country ofthe Romans) or Basileia ton Romaion (Kingdom of the Romans) as far as i've heard - at least that's how its spelled out in colloquial greek.
The other is that i thought it was the Byzantine navy that destroyed teh Arab fleet, while the Bulgarians harrassed the besieging Arabs and their camps from their rear with hit and run tatcics and night raids.
But i could be wrong :)
I suppose it's a matter of linguistics. I know it as Romelia which is the same thing (Land of the Romans) or the ERE. Regarding the fleet - my grandfather is a History professor and was the vice dean for the VT University for 20 or so years. I'll ask him for details this Friday, but I'm reasonably sure that's the way I've been told it happened. It was definitely a full scale assault and not hit-and-run as far as the naval battle goes.
Rumelia sounds probably like a leftover from the Ottoman period, because the province that encompasses central Greece today is known as "Rumeli", which was how the Ottomans called it AFAIK.
I knew that the Bulgarians played a key part in the Arab siege on land, and what i said about the hit and run tactics are for that. I did not know that they had participated in the naval war.
Regards
edit: Wikipedia says that in the first siege the Byzantines got a decisive victory at sea, and this is the one i was referring to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_o...4%E2%80%93678)
In the second siege it mentions the key Bulgarian involvement on land that sandwitched the sieging Arabs between the Bulgarians and the sallying Byzantines, wearing them down until they retreated. It says it encompassed all out attacks as well as raids the most important one being while the Arabs tried to retreat to their fleet, in which the Bulgarians scored a very high number of kills. It is mentioned that in their retreat their fleet got also destroyed, but due to a storm.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_o...7%E2%80%93718)
I like French but Im also new! I love Scots Guard and Lancers... just got gunpowder and only built cannons so far so curious whats gonna happen next!
I think the toughest to beat in western Europe was Milan and Sicily... the pavise crossbowmen and italian spearmen were tough on my knights!!
Ps. Any suggestion about attacking the Pope? When should I do it and how? :)
I generally don't like to go to war with the pope if I can help it. You will be excommunicated which affects city loyalty. However, in my case anyway, sometimes I am excommunicated anyway if I am at war with a Catholic faction and want to quickly finish them off. In which case I hope to have enough happiness bulidings built and turn down the tax rate. When excommunicated, often in times the pope will attack you and you are then at war with him too. I take this opportunity, if convineint, to attack the pope and take his cities. The only problem is that when the pope dies or your faction leader dies, you will still remain excommed (I think). You need to have one of your own popes elected or make peace with a diplomat to be reinstated. It is a satisfying feeling to take Rome though. This is my experience, though I claim not to be a very good player! :)
Hi Adelaide and welcome to the .Org !!Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelaide
Yes, France has a good selection of units and is real fun to play with with so many knights available...
As to fighting Milan and Sicily, the best way as the French is to make good use of cavalry... Use faster Mounted sergeants to deal with Pavise Xbowmen and use knights to get rid of the spear militias.
I consider myself a good cavalry commander (capable of winning against uneven odds if I'm in command of an all cavalry force) and could give you some advice on how best to use that cavalry, send me a PM if you want some advice :wink:
As to the Pope, I would advise keeping him as ally as long as you can... One simple way is to offer to give him one or two territories (or as many as neccessary), an offer that would exceed their funds, so though the Pope will refuse your relations will get better... Repeat a few times (even in a single dilomatic session) and you should get perfect relations (and so free rein to deal with your pesky Catholic neighbours...:2thumbsup:)
gollum: I spoke to my grandfather. You were indeed right - we did not help by sea, we destroyed their ships with flaming arrows.
War with the italian factions: First you must know that they don't really need castles for the better part of the game (if at all). Therefore the best strategy is not to try to take key settlements (as they have none that are outstandingly important) but to slow and methodically push them back and wipe them out. Milan tends to get itself excommunicated in Vanilla because of it's overly aggressive AI. Wait for that, give the pope 5000 gold and crusade against them. The crusader mercs will eat them alive in autocalc, but will also be good in lead battles.
As far as dealing with them tactics wise, in addition to Tristan's cav start I'd say mass Dism. Feudal/Chivalric knights to hold the line against the spears and then hammer and anvil them with gendarmes/chivalric knights/whatever you have.
War with the pope is best done in one swift strike - land 4-5 stacks near Rome (Trebuchets and all) and take it in one turn. Though It'd be better if you did that in Stainless Steel as there your genearls get traits that help them fight the Papal States and other Catholics.
@Tristan
Thank you for the welcome! And thanks for the advice too. I defeated Milan very early with mostly mercenaries I think... Spearmen, Crossbowmen and Frankish Knights. Maybe I also had Armoured Sergeants and Dismounted Feudal Knights, but I can't remember. I also defeated Sicily quite early, though I didn't like their Norman Knights! :)
@Myth
Thanks for the advice, especially against the Pope! :)
I was thinking the exact same thing, almost. I am planning on having 2 full armies outside Florence, Rome and Tripoli (Those are the 3 papal cities). 1 field army (Mostly or only cavalry) and 1 siege army (mostly or only heavy infantry, Scots Guards/Avanturiers and cannons).
Right now only 4 factions remains! My year is 1320 I think and I need to prepare for the arrival of the Timurids. All of western Europe, the Middle East and North Africa has been conquered by my french armies! I just attacked Poland and took their 2 regions to the north instantly, 2 more will fall soon as my armies are marching closer and then after that they only have 3 or 4 regions left. Russia has 3-5 regions and the Turks only 1 left!
After the Turks have been crushed I will move down and prepare for the Timurids. At the same time my sweap into Poland will probably be stopped by the Pope and then I will either assassinate him, or move down and take him before I finish off Poland. Not sure yet but would be best to finish conquering Poland completely before I move against Rome!
Its so hard to choose, they are all great but I think I have to go with England. Those Billmen and Feudal knights just make it the best.
I'm not sure if you can start playing as Portugal, but Once i win the game as my present faction HRE i intend to play as Portugal :) but my Fav is HRE, awesome generals :) beat back an attack of 5 units of norman swords of sicily with 3 units of sergant xbowmen with a 6 (total) star general :D and presently i got six, 5 star generals of 20 yrs of age. They all attained knighthood with 3 stars!!! wicked!!!
My favorite is Portugal, their units are awesome. I really like javelins. They kill anything. And their starting position is better than Spain. I also like eastern european factions (Poland, Hungary and Russia). Danes are also great, their cavalry is weak but great infantry. More challenge to me :p
I see.
France already in my MTW2 campagan has become powerful.
Francce is a really good faction,The Holly Roman empire has a great range of units,Spain's my fav and Denmark and VENICE.
I personally like the English, Danes and Milan, but my favorite would have to be Portugal. Aventuros + Musketeers are simply amazing. Particularly when fighting the Aztecs their good city-fighting properties are useful. And the Danes don't have bad cavalry..... Huscarls and Norse War Clerics are really good standing melee cavalry (The charge is still pretty powerful too) as well as conventional knights. Something that I have never understood though is why Viking Raiders cost more than Dismounted Huscarls (only by 5 florins, but still strange to me).
Spain.. I'm surprised only a few voted for it.
Spain was the first faction I played in Medieval and Medieval2.Quote:
Originally Posted by scrapcode
I have several favorites and Spain is one.
Spain is great but lacks early game competitiveness. It's hard to match the Italian states.
Right now i am playing Milan on Hard/hard, and they :2thumbsup: Genoese Xbowmen are :smart: and I usually use Hospitaler knights for my cavalry, they are great too. I have finished the campaign by 1240 AD but noe slowly playing to get to the timurids. They will be LONg to come but I am loving my slow game of cloak, dagger and diplomacy now :bounce: I now dominate the papal seat, with all but one cardinal. Allied to Poland, Denmark and Papal states. (the last factions left) with mongols and Russians. Treasurey in 500k plus, so I paid the Papal states with florins and lands to crush the Mongols, and put a buffer between me and other factions. But they (Papal states) attacked, and made the Mongols their vassals :wall::wall: Sooo Now i can't attack the Mongols or assasinate their generals, for the grave consequence of loosing the Papal alliance :dizzy2: But I am bidding my time and starting Crusades whenever possible to break Papal allaince with Mongols :grin3: And paying the Poles and Danes to hit the Mongols :book2: Getting 40k profit each turn soooo florins are not a big problem. (key is to Hold Greece, North Africa and parts of mediterrenean provinces)