Suggestion Box

Taranaich, I'm curious how you plan on handling the religion feature. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but religion doesn't seem to have been particularly important in Hyboria, at least as a cause of friction (outside of Stygian's abhorrent and blood-thirsty sect, of course) -- while culture was very important, particularly Hyborian vs. 'barbaric' vs. 'ancient' cultures.

Have you thought about using the religion mechanism to represent culture, as the Kingdoms Britannia campaign does? This would make it difficult for Hyborian cultures to expand into non-Hyborian regions, and vice-versa.

In fact, a comment you made earlier in this thread stood out to me:

The Heart of Ahriman will offer significant bonuses when fighting ancient cultures (Stygia, Kosala, Khitai, basically any that would have magic or monsters)

'Ancient' might be one of the cultures, along with Hyborian, Barbarian (or 'Savage') for the Picts, Cimmerians, and Northmen, and Eastern for the Hyrkanians and Turanians...

I'm not trying to speak for Tar,but I believe he said something about a civilization vs barbarism mechanic in another thread,but hasn't really expanded on it yet.

But that's just what I can remember right off the top of my head. :embarassed:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cherryfunk

Taranaich, I'm curious how you plan on handling the religion feature. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but religion doesn't seem to have been particularly important in Hyboria, at least as a cause of friction (outside of Stygian's abhorrent and blood-thirsty sect, of course) -- while culture was very important, particularly Hyborian vs. 'barbaric' vs. 'ancient' cultures.

Have you thought about using the religion mechanism to represent culture, as the Kingdoms Britannia campaign does? This would make it difficult for Hyborian cultures to expand into non-Hyborian regions, and vice-versa.

---

That's indeed what I was planning on. Religion in the mod will be relegated more to it's role in Rome, in that it offers extras like units, stat increases and happiness/law bonuses. The "religion" mechanic will be replaced with a culture one: Hyborian, Barbarian, Savage, Ancient and Eastern. Like in the "Britannia" campaign, this will represent the problems which arise from sizeable populations of different cultures. If, say, Aquilonia conquers a Cimmerian province, they'll have the problem of being perhaps 5% Hyborian and 95% Barbarian, which would make holding and controlling the province incredibly difficult. Culture will also allow the recruitment of different regional units, again like in Britannia.

Quote:

---

I'm not trying to speak for Tar,but I believe he said something about a civilization vs barbarism mechanic in another thread,but hasn't really expanded on it yet.

---

The civilization vs barbarism will be replacing chivalry/dread, since I never liked that dichotomy. Surely a chivalrous man can be dreaded by his enemies, being generous and kindly to his subjects and soldiers but a sadistic monster to his foes? By changing this, a few of the decisions that affect those traits are hopefully a little more realistic: letting prisoners go is "civilized", and thus conforms to tradition and status quo among the nobility.

Therefore, a Hyborian character who releases prisoners is acting according to knightly codes and conduct, and so is being "civilized". Slaying prisoners is breaking those codes, and is viewed as dishonourable and "barbaric" by other characters. By contrast, a Barbarian who releases prisoners is seen as weak and foolish by other barbarians. Killing prisoners is simply pragmatic and accepted practise among barbarians, so killing prisoners reaffirms a character's resolve and status among barbarians.

Generally only the Hyborian nations are typically "civilized": Barbarians, Shemites and Easterners are usually "barbaric". Note that civilization/barbarism does not mean advanced/unadvanced: Turan is a barbaric nation, but its social and cultural mores are more savage than the unnatural and complicated ones of Aquilonia or Nemedia.

I'm unsure where Stygia will fit in here: the Stygian nobility might have a lot of rules and etiquette, but sacrificing prisoners would undoubtedly be useful for the clergy. Since Hyborians make up the majority of factions, so most factions would be viewed as "barbaric" by them...

Quote:

---

That's indeed what I was planning on. Religion in the mod will be relegated more to it's role in Rome, in that it offers extras like units, stat increases and happiness/law bonuses. The "religion" mechanic will be replaced with a culture one: Hyborian, Barbarian, Savage, Ancient and Eastern. Like in the "Britannia" campaign, this will represent the problems which arise from sizeable populations of different cultures. If, say, Aquilonia conquers a Cimmerian province, they'll have the problem of being perhaps 5% Hyborian and 95% Barbarian, which would make holding and controlling the province incredibly difficult. Culture will also allow the recruitment of different regional units, again like in Britannia.

---

Perfect! This should work really well, and add a great deal of challenge to the game. It will also tend to 'mold' the campaign into 'historical' channels -- if you're playing Cimmeria, you'll find it easier to expand into Barbaric regions, then into Hyborian ones. Stygia will run into all sorts of problems expanding north (and might have to exterminate a few cities to make them more manageable...) -- so more than just a clash of nations, the campaign will take on the aspect of a clash of cultures.

Now, I wonder if the priest/heretic dynamic can be modded to fit this? Could Priests represent, perhaps, men who espouse a particular culture? I'm trying to think of what this could be. Maybe something like bards/skalds for Barbaric, teachers/philosophers for Hyborian... or maybe they should remain Priests, but just represent the different pantheons...

Quote:

---

The civilization vs barbarism will be replacing chivalry/dread, since I never liked that dichotomy. Surely a chivalrous man can be dreaded by his enemies, being generous and kindly to his subjects and soldiers but a sadistic monster to his foes? By changing this, a few of the decisions that affect those traits are hopefully a little more realistic: letting prisoners go is "civilized", and thus conforms to tradition and status quo among the nobility.

---

This is an excellent idea, and it fits perfectly with the Hyborian universe -- after all the conflict of civilization vs. barbarism was a theme that REH explored though most of his writings. What more fitting way to represent it in the mod than have each character be Barbaric or Civilized? Wonderful idea!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cherryfunk

Perfect! This should work really well, and add a great deal of challenge to the game. It will also tend to 'mold' the campaign into 'historical' channels -- if you're playing Cimmeria, you'll find it easier to expand into Barbaric regions, then into Hyborian ones. Stygia will run into all sorts of problems expanding north (and might have to exterminate a few cities to make them more manageable...) -- so more than just a clash of nations, the campaign will take on the aspect of a clash of cultures.

---

Stygia will probably have the greatest difficulty with culture problems, since it's surrounded by Shemite and Savage land respectively, and it's already treated with suspicion by other nations. It's best bet would be the east: Kuthchemes and Zamboula were originally Stygian cities and so still have a strong Stygian populace, and the deserts are sparse enough that they can be pretty much populated with them.

Quote:

---

Now, I wonder if the priest/heretic dynamic can be modded to fit this? Could Priests represent, perhaps, men who espouse a particular culture? I'm trying to think of what this could be. Maybe something like bards/skalds for Barbaric, teachers/philosophers for Hyborian... or maybe they should remain Priests, but just represent the different pantheons...

---

I would very much like to keep priests in, as it offers more stuff for the player to control. As you said, the unit would have to be something that has control over a particular culture or population. I'm currently thinking the priest would be replaced with a basic unit (maybe Rhetoric, or Demagogue?), with each faction having their own particular slant on it based on who would have the most power and influence. For example, Cimmerians would have Bards, Nemedians would have philosophers, Picts would have Shamans, etc. Heretics would be something like "Sorcerers", with heresy replaced by "Dark Cults", since they seem the type to be always causing trouble (like in Black Colossus).

Quote:

---

This is an excellent idea, and it fits perfectly with the Hyborian universe -- after all the conflict of civilization vs. barbarism was a theme that REH explored though most of his writings. What more fitting way to represent it in the mod than have each character be Barbaric or Civilized? Wonderful idea!

---

Thanks, glad you like it! I felt no Howard mod would be complete without a civilization vs barbarism theme, and this seemed a good way to include it.

Quote:

---

I would very much like to keep priests in, as it offers more stuff for the player to control. As you said, the unit would have to be something that has control over a particular culture or population. I'm currently thinking the priest would be replaced with a basic unit (maybe Rhetoric, or Demagogue?), with each faction having their own particular slant on it based on who would have the most power and influence. For example, Cimmerians would have Bards, Nemedians would have philosophers, Picts would have Shamans, etc. Heretics would be something like "Sorcerers", with heresy replaced by "Dark Cults", since they seem the type to be always causing trouble (like in Black Colossus).

---

Once again you have this thought out very well, and I agree completely that we should keep Priests in -- it's a very cool feature of M2TW.

Since 'piety' determined a Priest's effectiveness, what would that be replaced with? 'Influence'? 'Charisma'?

Now, are Priests defined by culture, or by faction? Could the different Hyborian nations have different priest types? Either one would probably work, but it would be cool if they could be separate for each nation -- that would allow a little more 'personalization' for each culture.

The Sorcerer/Dark Cult idea would also work I think -- there are various hints throughout the stories of dark cults that linger in the dark recesses of Hyboria. I'm not sure that it makes sense for a Bard to defeat a Sorcerer, but we can find some way to make it work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cherryfunk

Once again you have this thought out very well, and I agree completely that we should keep Priests in -- it's a very cool feature of M2TW.

---

The more agents available, the more the player can control is my philosophy regarding this.

Quote:

---

Since 'piety' determined a Priest's effectiveness, what would that be replaced with? 'Influence'? 'Charisma'?

---

Hmm, tricky one. I think something fairly universal like "authority" would work: it would mean how adept or skilled the character was in his chosen field, and thus his fame and influence.

Quote:

---

Now, are Priests defined by culture, or by faction? Could the different Hyborian nations have different priest types? Either one would probably work, but it would be cool if they could be separate for each nation -- that would allow a little more 'personalization' for each culture.

---

I think it's defined by religion itself, so that would mean one per culture. It could be possible to have different ones per culture, but I don't think it is sadly. Still, one per culture still offers lots of customization, and you'd also get upgrades (priests to cardinals could allow for Bards to become Warrior Poets, Philosophers become Sages, Shamans become Children of Jhebbal-Sag and so on)

Quote:

---

The Sorcerer/Dark Cult idea would also work I think -- there are various hints throughout the stories of dark cults that linger in the dark recesses of Hyboria. I'm not sure that it makes sense for a Bard to defeat a Sorcerer, but we can find some way to make it work.

---

In these cases, it's more a matter of the character gathering a small rabble to defeat the Sorcerer and his cult through force of arms: a Bard with high authority has more followers, and so can lead the mob to destroy the cult. One with low authority can only scrounge together a small group, and would fail to overcome the cult: they could either escape with their lives, or be enslaved by the cult for their own dark purposes.

Quote:

---

Hmm, tricky one. I think something fairly universal like "authority" would work: it would mean how adept or skilled the character was in his chosen field, and thus his fame and influence.

---

Sure, that might do the trick. Or some similar term; influence, power, prestige, persuasion, conviction, zeal, notability...

Quote:

---

I think it's defined by religion itself, so that would mean one per culture. It could be possible to have different ones per culture, but I don't think it is sadly. Still, one per culture still offers lots of customization, and you'd also get upgrades (priests to cardinals could allow for Bards to become Warrior Poets, Philosophers become Sages, Shamans become Children of Jhebbal-Sag and so on)

---

Sounds good, and it'll definitely add some atmosphere to have these characters wandering around fighting to spread their culture. That's one element of M2TW I really like -- the sense that the factions themselves are players in a larger, global struggle between cultures. And it fits in very well with Howard's writings...

Quote:

---

In these cases, it's more a matter of the character gathering a small rabble to defeat the Sorcerer and his cult through force of arms: a Bard with high authority has more followers, and so can lead the mob to destroy the cult. One with low authority can only scrounge together a small group, and would fail to overcome the cult: they could either escape with their lives, or be enslaved by the cult for their own dark purposes.

---

I like it, it almost has a Dungeons and Dragons feel to it, as if each character represents a hero -- we could even use anciliaries to give them a 'party' of companions, say a Skald who has been joined by a Heroic Warrior and a Tribal Shaman, giving his 'Authority' a big boost... all sorts of possibilities with this!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cherryfunk

Sure, that might do the trick. Or some similar term; influence, power, prestige, persuasion, conviction, zeal, notability...

---

Yeah, we'll have to find the most inclusive (and cool sounding).

Quote:

---

Sounds good, and it'll definitely add some atmosphere to have these characters wandering around fighting to spread their culture. That's one element of M2TW I really like -- the sense that the factions themselves are players in a larger, global struggle between cultures. And it fits in very well with Howard's writings...

---

For all the war and carnage going on, people are certainly well-travelled in the Hyborian Age. I'm particularly struck by that mention of a "wandering Shemite" describing an elephant to Conan in Tower of the Elephant: it would be nice for such a character to get a nod.

Quote:

---

I like it, it almost has a Dungeons and Dragons feel to it, as if each character represents a hero -- we could even use anciliaries to give them a 'party' of companions, say a Skald who has been joined by a Heroic Warrior and a Tribal Shaman, giving his 'Authority' a big boost... all sorts of possibilities with this!

---

That's a brilliant idea! I think making the strat-map characters more interesting and complicated would be crucial to making them as important and engaging as the generals. A lot of people just gave up on merchants and priests since they offered so little reward, but I think they are important for the growth and wellbeing of a kingdom beyond the battlefield. Anything to make the campaign as enjoyable as possible instead of a stop-gap between the battles.

I originally posted this comment in the "Beasts" thread, but I think it might be worthy of being in the suggestion box.

"I wonder if you could script in some treasure... i.e. if your FM or troops reach a certain gridsquare or resource, they get 10,000 gold or whatever... or conversly, by defeating a certain brigand (ice giant... Demon, snake whatever) you could script money to be given to the player to simulate finding a hoard... Maybe even with an announcement showing someone finding treasure! (comic book style..)"

This was in the context of having treasure hunting expiditions against some of those vicious beasts mentioned in that thread, but it would actually be a useful and unique gameplay element that might not be that hard to implement (I don't know anything about scripting though...) Still, rewards were given in RTW by the senate, and in MTW2 by the pope for completing missions, so it should be possible one way or another...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Irishmafia2020

I originally posted this comment in the "Beasts" thread, but I think it might be worthy of being in the suggestion box...

---

Expeditions for treasure will be quite a fun little "mini-game" in itself, which will be explored further in the big huge special preview that'll be coming. There will also be witch hunts, beast-slaying, archaeology expeditions and other adventures: they're very, very similar to what you suggested. :2thumbsup:

Don't forget the curses, mass human sacrifices, dark rituals, demon-summonings and wizardly battles... :skull:

Coooollllll..... nothing like mass sacrifice to summon a demon!!:2thumbsup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cherryfunk

Don't forget the curses, mass human sacrifices, dark rituals, demon-summonings and wizardly battles... :skull:

---

And the naked dancing-girls. :grin:

If you want to add fire magic I could explain how I added it to my 4 Seasons mod.

Hi. Long time player of R:TW and just started with M:TW2 Gold that I got just the other day. Also a long time lurker of the various TW forums.

I can't tell you how glad I am to see someone making a Hyborian Age TW mod. Huge fan of the REH books and also actively play Hyborian War (Which for those of you who don't know is a really old PBM snail mail game that's been running for years). An earlier post on this thread had a link to the kingdom setups and maps for the game.

I see you were having issues figuring out the names of provinces and cities. The map provided with Hyborian War would probably be an excellent reference to use seeing as that game also makes use of provinces much like the TW games. Some are named pretty silly things (Like "The Swampy Desert") and I'm sure you don't want to rip off another game but the resources for that game may be invaluable for reference purposes. Note that the Kingdom setups also have plenty of names of characters and troop types which could also be handy.

PM me if you are interested in looking at the map and I'll send it to you. Sorry but I can't figure out how to post an image here directly from my local PC. I also have all the kingdom setups.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GazzaD

Hi. Long time player of R:TW and just started with M:TW2 Gold that I got just the other day. Also a long time lurker of the various TW forums.

---

Welcome GazzaD, nice to see you delurk. :D

Quote:

---

I can't tell you how glad I am to see someone making a Hyborian Age TW mod. Huge fan of the REH books and also actively play Hyborian War (Which for those of you who don't know is a really old PBM snail mail game that's been running for years). An earlier post on this thread had a link to the kingdom setups and maps for the game.

---

A couple of Hyborian War folk have been along, so it's obviously pretty strong still. I doubt Conan: Total War will replace the PBM version, but hopefully the PBM regulars will provide an audience for the mod.

Quote:

---

I see you were having issues figuring out the names of provinces and cities. The map provided with Hyborian War would probably be an excellent reference to use seeing as that game also makes use of provinces much like the TW games. Some are named pretty silly things (Like "The Swampy Desert") and I'm sure you don't want to rip off another game but the resources for that game may be invaluable for reference purposes. Note that the Kingdom setups also have plenty of names of characters and troop types which could also be handy.

---

The Hyborian War game is an excellent resource, but it was based on the Schuyler/Miller map, which has proven to have been inaccurate when compared with newly released information and the unedited texts. Still, most of Hyborian War can be applied to the mod: Argos is still the ultimate sea power, Turan is still a juggernaut, Stygia's still a magic nation etc.

Wow i was wondering if that PBM game was still going, i once heard something a long time ago about it might go online which is something i wish it would do, as I really liked the game, but i cant get my self to snail mail anything with any kind of regularity lol

Will there be anything on the Vanir in the near future?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Helgi

Will there be anything on the Vanir in the near future?

---

They probably won't be all that different from their Aesir counterparts, but I assume both factions will have unique units to set them apart.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spartan198

They probably won't be all that different from their Aesir counterparts, but I assume both factions will have unique units to set them apart.

---

Ok, that works for me than, working on a story in my creative writing class using a passage on page 396 from the book "The Coming of Conan the Cimmerian" involving the Vanir and Stygia.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spartan198

They probably won't be all that different from their Aesir counterparts, but I assume both factions will have unique units to set them apart.

---

Pretty much. The major differences are that the Aesir have more of an emphasis on defence than the offensive Vanir: most of the Aesir unique units wear chain armour, while most of the Vanir are clad in wolfskins.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Helgi

Ok, that works for me than, working on a story in my creative writing class using a passage on page 396 from the book "The Coming of Conan the Cimmerian" involving the Vanir and Stygia.

---

Sounds cool. Short story?

I wish, so far it's 26 pages so far, it's a cross between Detective Noir, Fantasy& with horror/Sci-fi due to the date that part of the story takes place in 2013-14, with Journal entries continuing the voice of a character who died in chapter 3. Chapter 4-9 is part of the Detective Noir with the journal entries, 10 & 11 are going to be part of the back story mentioned in the journal entries involving a group of Vanir. Everything from that point is up in the air at the moment.

Would it be possible to give the Pictish Shamans the ability to call a Warpath like the Apachean Tribes? This could be a huge advantage for the Picts to not only have very much increased movement ability; but also to supplement their numbers very quickly with "horde" type troops that the Warleader could summon to him at little to no cost in raising new troops.

This way, while the standing Pictish military wouldn't be all that big, very quickly each Pictish Warleader would be able to raise more soldiers, increase his armies movement, and even give a religious zeal to his troops that make them fight harder.

I know nothing of computer programming, but while playing Kingdoms as the Apachean Tribes, I used this tactic for the first time and immediately thought of Picts vs. Aquilonia.

Also, using the Apachean Tribes, you could allow the Picts to gather technology that would allow them to later build structures that allow them cavalry even...just like in Howard's history. I don't know how you would change the muskets to just weapons...like I said, I know nothing of computers; but I thought perhaps it is possible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Helgi

I wish, so far it's 26 pages so far, it's a cross between Detective Noir, Fantasy& with horror/Sci-fi due to the date that part of the story takes place in 2013-14, with Journal entries continuing the voice of a character who died in chapter 3. Chapter 4-9 is part of the Detective Noir with the journal entries, 10 & 11 are going to be part of the back story mentioned in the journal entries involving a group of Vanir. Everything from that point is up in the air at the moment.

---

26 pages isn't bad. I have yet to pass page 5 on anything I'm writing. I tend to start an idea, then once I've gotten the intro written, I already have another one in mind that I start on.

...sorry for going off-topic, T.. :sweatdrop:

Edit: @Taraniach
I just saw that your forum on TWcenter was moved to the graveyard. Please tell me CTW isn't dying...:bigcry:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spartan198

26 pages isn't bad. I have yet to pass page 5 on anything I'm writing. I tend to start an idea, then once I've gotten the intro written, I already have another one in mind that I start on.

...sorry for going off-topic, T.. :sweatdrop:

Edit: @Taraniach
I just saw that your forum on TWcenter was moved to the graveyard. Please tell me CTW isn't dying...:bigcry:

---

A suggestion on writting, compile a list of 50 paragraphs on anything and then combine 3 - 4 of those paragraphs to form a building block for a story. That is how my story started.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spartan198

...sorry for going off-topic, T.. :sweatdrop:

---

Don't sweat it. :)

Quote:

---

Edit: @Taraniach
I just saw that your forum on TWcenter was moved to the graveyard. Please tell me CTW isn't dying...:bigcry:

---

So THAT'S where it is! Man, you stop commenting for a month and the thing gets declared dead... Well, as soon as there's a more substantial update (like the one I kept talking about before Christmas, *tugs collar*) I'll try and get it back up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taranaich

So THAT'S where it is! Man, you stop commenting for a month and the thing gets declared dead... Well, as soon as there's a more substantial update (like the one I kept talking about before Christmas, *tugs collar*) I'll try and get it back up.

---

Whew, that made my heart skip a beat. I might have to get a sword and shield, head over there to TWcenter, and persuade them to reinstate it... :knight:

How about a Mod for MTW2 about Japan

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by knight of graal

How about a Mod for MTW2 about Japan

---

How about an on-topic post? :sweatdrop:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by knight of graal

How about a Mod for MTW2 about Japan

---

Have to totally agree with Spartan198, that this is about Hyboria, not Medieval Japan, if you want a Medieval Japanese mod during the Age of War, then you should ever find a mod, make one or get a group together to make one. I would ask a certain group in the RTW posts for possible help.