Hey Olymp, what was that note about?
Can't you just tell OOC, I tend to forget about simple messages like these and delete them.
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Hey Olymp, what was that note about?
Can't you just tell OOC, I tend to forget about simple messages like these and delete them.
I'll be back home soon. It seems some battles still need to be fought, so I'm tacking on another 24 hours. After that, they'll be auto-resolved.
Just wanted to say this:
!%@$# the investigations
~D
Of course it is! :2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamur
Seriously though, Byzantium and Empress Theodora is quite a touchy subject under the current circumstances. Besides other involvements, it would just be rude to let a newly formed wedding alliance be disgraced this easily.
We need a bomb smiley.
We certainly do ~D
lol! Blast, caught out at third base! Ah well, Fritz was definitely asking for it. Now he gets to play wait for 1300 and rabble-rouse at the Tavern.
Might be too early for a judgement, but I think this might be worth a read for the future of KOTR.
Ironically, I had just talked to Lusted about this a few days earlier and was told there should be no problems. Looks like there might just be.
You sure that's the correct link, I would have expected some mod.
Factionheir is worried about our 1.2 saves being compatible with 1.3 and vice versa. I'm going to test it out tonight - I'll try a 1.2 save in 1.3 and then create a new save in 1.3, asking someone without 1.3 to download it and try to load it.
Indeed. Well, at least not a busy throne room thread like that one :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Stig
:balloon2:
Well, I've got 1.3 (because I have Kingdoms), I'll test it now
1.2 saves work for my Kingdoms 1.3.
That means that everyone can patch to 1.3. That way we'll all be back on the same version, and game files won't be effected, as 1.3 is really a MP patch.
I thought you can only get 1.3 using STEAM or via buying Kingdoms at this time? At least it does not seem publicized anywhere at the Citadel.
On a sidenote, I have read (although not sure, as I don't have 1.3) that the 1.3 patch changes the SafeDisc protection to SecuROM 7, so it would be good to first make sure that people are OK with patching up and the risk associated with it.
Well that stuff about SecuRom is all blown up. I'd say if you don't like it, fat luck. I've got Kingdoms installed, nothing found, not even the rootkit I was supposed to find.
If it would be a problem gamereviewers should mention it, as they are the professionals, and they don't.
Anyway, to get news you should visit dotcommie:
http://www.totalwar.com/index.html?p...tml&nav=/en/5/
So it won't be a problem for those with Kingdoms and it won't be for those without Kingdoms, basically?
That's cool with me.
Other the scenarios and hotseat there is nothing that was changed in the gameplay like the Grand Campaign?
Just to check that, please can someone without Kingdoms or 1.3 load up the following savegame?Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1288-test.zip
It's the latest save, loaded into 1.3 after a silly battle. If people without Kingdoms can load that save, I think we are ok to proceed with some still on 1.2 and others still on 1.3.
Not in so far as we have been told. It is disappointing in the long term, but may make continuing this PBM easier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northnovas
It doesn't load.
In that case I think it's best to move on to 1.3 now.Quote:
Originally Posted by OverKnight
I know more than one of us have Kingdoms, and it isn't that much work to download a patch. It's atleast easier then having 2 seperate installs (as I've got no idea how to do that).
crap i cant make this battle either... i was at a party when it was assigned and couldnt do it monday night either.
Stig, the problem is that there does not appear to be a 1.3 patch publicly available. I just checked the .com support page and there is no 1.3 patch listed. So, until and unless there is one publicly available, this PBM will have to stay on 1.2. People with Kingdoms installed, like me, will either have to uninstall it or do a dual install if they want to fight battles. I can't say I am thrilled at that prospect, but I don't think we have a choice.
Good find, Stig. Sorry I missed the link to the patch that you posted earlier.
In principle, I don't see any problem in moving this campaign on to 1.3. Does anyone else?
If there is no problem in principle, we need to sort out the practicalities - ie when we make the switch.
Ideally, I would Factionheir to patch first, just to check that his modded files will be fine under 1.3. The key person right now is Overknight - what is your situation? And what about everyone else - does any one face a problem patching to 1.3?
I'm inclined to propose that Overknight upgrade to 1.3 before uploading the save for next year. Is that going to cause any one a problem?
BTW, Stig - if you can find the time, please can you upload the savegame I linked to, just to make sure it can be loaded in someone else's 1.3? I ran it with 1.3, but used the icon that makes M2TW use Factionheir's modded files.
I just looked at how big it is. Its 538 mb.....Thats a HUGE patch. I might not get it atm because my internet is deciding to be really slow atm and it will take me like 5 hours to dl it.
geez thats massive
i think i might just wait till i get kingdoms.
Is that seperate 1.3 patch legit? Also it looks like we have less than universal access to 1.3, so for now I will continue to play in 1.2, especially because 1.3 doesn't improve gameplay AFAIK.
Once we reach a concensus, I have no problem using 1.3, but I don't want to leave anyone behind if it can be helped.
A switchover would go more smoothly over a Diet Session anyway, as we did with 1.2.
Edit: I'm taking the save. All outstanding battles will be auto-calced.
I have to agree I could not get the mirror it was busy but if gameplay is not affected I would wait till we have a concensus before the 1.3 change.
I think OK is right in waiting for the next diet session. This should also allow ample time for people with slow connections (mine is really slow here too, and unstable) to download the patch in the meantime or get further information on the SecuROM developments and stuff and whether there is a way to get the two versions to become compatible.
hey hey.
Can I still fight my battle?
Sorry I'm like a day late....it's been crazy with school starting, I should have my laptop within a week and it's got a 8600GT, so I should be able to battle on the go.
OK took the save in an hour ago.
yeah, I thought so, I uploaded the save, it's 1288-2 if he wants it, I executed and got a new nickname.
You're lucky Stuperman that I got sucked in by Bioshock, had to finish a level and checked in before I continued with the save.
Post the battle stats when you get a chance.
Well, if you don't want to switch over till a Diet Session you better not get Ansehelm in a battle. I'm not going to do 2 installations (as I've got no idea how to) just because a couple of you aren't willing to switch over.
I don't mean to be rude guy's, but I'm not a fan of having a permanent set of files that I can't remove installed on my machine.
SecuROM is not a healthy piece of software.
Given 1.3 does nothing to the game "except" install secuROM on the vanilla game, I'm struggling to work out why we are doing this.
Who is actually going to install Kingdoms in the next few months?
I already have, as has Stig. And from what Econ said earlier in the thread, I think he already has too.Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieGiant
:balloon2:
And Bob the Great.
That's 4, more will follow I think.
And sorry AG, but I'm not doing difficult things just because someone doesn't really want to have 1 complete harmless line in his registry.
Is there an official patch to 1.3 that doesn't require buying Kingdoms?
I can't believe I'm going to have to patch this piece of crap security file onto my system just to keep playing AND it is impossible to remove.
And I would not assume it's totally harmless Stig.
The Defense of Caen, late 1288
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/1288-3.zip
Xdeathfire has a battle. The French have attacked Caen. I highly suggest you fight the battle rather than auto-calc. If you can't, get a proxy as your avatar's life is on the line.
Updating to 1.3 at the next Diet sounds like a reasonable compromise.
AussieGiant: there is a free public 1.3 patch - Stig posted two links to it. The patch mainly looks like it is for compatibility with Kingdoms - this is primarily for multiplayer, but is also relevant for PBMs like this one. Apparently, I installed SecuROM ages ago when I bought NWN2 but it only seems widely publicised with Bioshock, probably because it came with an install limit for that game (only). But I have not had any problems with it, nor does skimming through the Citadel thread on the topic give me any grounds for concern.
If 1.3 is a deal breaker for anyone, shout out. But in the long run, I think PBMs should be run on the latest patched version of a game. Most of the keen players will be running that. The Throne Room split with the VI expansion, as there was no free public patch, but that was not ideal.
Stig: with RTW, I did a dual install just by installing, patching to 1.2 only, and using windows explorer to copy the entire RTW directory. I then patched the copy further, not the original. However, it is a fairly long process and takes a lot of space. I don't think I will bother doing it again. I will just uninstall/reinstall M2TW if Elberhard gets a battle; I have not seriously got into Kingdoms (too busy with Bioshock). I guess people with Kingdoms who don't want to do a dual install or a reinstall will have to be regarded as being off active duty until the next Diet.
Hi Econ,
Thanks for the information.
I've been one of the participants in the secuROM threads in the Citadel.
The version CA has used is certainly not as inhibiting as the one employed in Bioshock.
I wont have to deal with this until I get back so I'll put it on my list of things to update when I get back.
I agree that the PBM should use the latest patch...this one is just not a patch in reality :wall:
Won't work for MTW2Quote:
Stig: with RTW, I did a dual install just by installing, patching to 1.2 only, and using windows explorer to copy the entire RTW directory. I then patched the copy further, not the original. However, it is a fairly long process and takes a lot of space. I don't think I will bother doing it again. I will just uninstall/reinstall M2TW if Elberhard gets a battle; I have not seriously got into Kingdoms (too busy with Bioshock). I guess people with Kingdoms who don't want to do a dual install or a reinstall will have to be regarded as being off active duty until the next Diet.
I backed up MTW2 during 1.2 (working on a mod with some other guys). And those files are stored in the folder Backup, I can easely run that as a modfolder. Simply make a batfile and cfg file saying that it should start up from the folder Backup, but it still shows the version as 1.3
So it's either:
We patch for free (note: this patch does NOT change gameplay in anyway, so we wouldn't have to wait till a Diet Session).
Or about 5 of us won't be able to use something they payed 30 euro's for.
For some odd reason, while getting ready for work this morning, I was thinking about the idea of the 'Catastrophic Event' for the 1320ish timeperiod. How about this:
Proto-Reformation
Alexander Luther (Ancestor of Martin Luther, known as "Lex" to his friends) is disgruntled with the changes in Christianity. He believes the Church is simply a puppet of the Holy Roman Empire and subject to its whims, rather than the teachings of Christ. He nails his 59 dissertations to the doors of Castle Church in Wittenberg. The contents of his writings rapidly spreads to all corners of the Reich.
A large segment of the common folk are sympathetic to his beliefs and dissent grows very rapidly. Riots break out in many cities; some buildings are burned down in many cities, including the magnificent Cathedral in Rome; the local garrisons and armies of the Reich are turned out to restore order; the mobs choose to fight and many soldiers are killed in the process; more soldiers either sympathize with the rioters or refuse to raise a hand against their own countrymen, resulting in mass desertion; eventually order is restored throughout the Reich, but some territories have been lost to active rebellion, some buildings have been destroyed in the remaining provinces, the armies and garrisons are massively reduced in size, and the Reich is unable to recruit more than one regiment per year per settlement for several turns.
Interesting idea, but I'm not so sure why say half the regions would riot because the pope is a HRE puppet considering the people are all HRE and Outremer is there to protect the pope/christianity.
Besides, they probably are aware of the papal bulls we keep getting which threaten excom.
Going by history, we can say that they are disgruntled by the granting of indulgences for monetary 'donations' to the Church. The rich can do as they please and go to heaven for a few florins, while the poor are doomed to hell because they cannot pay. The idea that the Pope is a HRE puppet only reinforces this, as the Reich's Electors are rich and powerful and are perceived to be bribing their way to heaven. Having the Pope under their sway is a way of assuring their salvation, no matter how heinous their sins.
As for the Papal Bull counter-argument, well, no one said that the conspiracy theory the mobs believe is actually true. Have a few charismatic rabble-rousers incite the mob with rhetoric and let them run wild. No one said muck-shoveling peasants were intelligent... Besides, this isn't the real Reformation. It is eventually completely suppressed and there is no split in the Church, so Lex Luther's arguments don't have to be too convincing. Hell, we can even make him an agent of that Pagan group, if we want.
Sounds good to me. We do need some sort of a big shake-up to make things a bit more challenging. Maybe depopulation would solve the marriage crisis as well? I'm coming up on a low-Org-activity time once again (though not as gone as I was in June/July) so Fritz wouldn't mind dying in the catastrophe ~:)
Heh I would love to keep Ansehelm in Polish territory till then.
He finally comes back, marches into Thorn ... and gets attacked by an angry mob
This is correct, but Tamur does not let people speak for Fritz, I just states that someone runs of to tell Fritz something.Quote:
OOC: As far as I know, banning extends to proxies.
If that isn't even allowed, tssss.
Tamur might want to write a story and if he says Fritz has some info it would be nice to explain how he got it, and he did now.
*oops*
So not only am I banned from the Diet, but anyone who speaks with me is as well? That seems exceedingly harsh. Thanks Stig, anyone else is free to clarify this as well.
No, only Fritz is banned. Can't ban all Franconian clerks, messengers, and what not. :beam:
This is how I conceive of Diet banning:
When your banned, your banned. That means from the moment of banning, no posts at all in the Diet thread. None under your .org account. Which means no proxies, no retinue, no messengers. Econ has said he will back this up as a mod by deleting all posts by banned members that are made post-ban. This is to give the Kaiser some real power and instill an air of deference towards him. There is precedent for this with regards to Wolfgang's proxies.
Allowing proxies, retinue, and messengers undermines this power by using OOC limitations with regards to the web-board's mechanics to take IC advantage of something. What I mean by this is that I don't think Econ has an option that stops someone from posting in a thread, without making it blanket across the web-board. So, OOC, you can keep posting all through the ban and Econ would have to delete one by one. So, we seem to have an OOC agreement to not post in the Diet thread as long as the avatar is banned. This keeps the atmosphere of a banning alive and keeps Econ from having to delete posts.
As for what happens in the Diet, that is public knowledge as far as I know. As an elector, you can access the scribes and read the transcripts. So, while banned, you still know what happens in the Diet, you just can not communicate with the Diet at all.
Unless you get another elector to agree to voice a message to the Diet on your behalf. Though, the elector might want to think twice about that one. But thats more of a political consideration.
Again, these are just my thoughts on the matter. If someone else has different ideas or if Econ wants to weigh in, feel free. :book:
http://img31.picoodle.com/img/img31/...sm_a94d257.jpg
battle stats for OK. Got a new nickname too...went from 'the honorable' to 'the merciless'.....quite a swing in personality :dizzy2: :dizzy2:
For god's sake PK, Fritz did NOT speak in the Diet. Tamur only made a post there.
Sides as Ituralde just said only (read: O.N.L.Y.) Fritz is banned
calm down. I grow tired of your inflammatory language towards me. I will not allow your temper tantrums to influence me from speaking my mind in this thread.
As far as I know, banning means the player can not post in the Diet thread until:
a.) the banning is lifted
b.) the Kaiser dies
c.) the banned elector dies or is abandoned by the player.
Otherwise, banning is effectively useless if we allow the player to keep posting in the Diet thread with proxies, messengers, and retinue.
The Kaiser is responsible for maintaining order in the Diet. Whatever he says goes. If he says only Fritz is banned, then only Fritz is banned. If he says Fritz, his messengers, his scribes, his mother, his dog, his ocelot, and his hair lice are banned, then they are banned too. Don't piss off the Kaiser.
Thats a good point TC. Since the Kaiser didn't specify that IC, I was going by the "Wolfgang precedent". But, its clear now. :yes:
Ah. So a Diet ban is actually an out-of-character ban, barring the real player from posting anything whatsoever in the thread called "Imperial Diet".
Where was that line between IC and OOC again?
As TC said, it seems to be the whim of the Kaiser. His powers over the Diet are vast and he seems to be able to set the limits as to how broad the banning is. I was not clear on what limits the Kaiser had set for Fritz so I was IC assuming a more broad definition due to precedent. But, it seems that the Kaiser's ban was more narrow than I thought. So, as far as I know, Fritz can send people into the Diet. :yes:
*edit*
Well, technically the Kaiser could. There might be political consequences but he could do it. The Kaiser could technically ban everyone from the Diet if he chose. That would be interesting... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Ituralde
Missed that as I was posting. Good, glad to hear I personally haven't been banned. I don't handle banning well. I don't think. Though I've never tried it. Hmm.
*runs off to see if Tosa can ban him for a few hours for fun*
I'm sorry, if I caused some confusion with my statement. I thought about clarifying it, but hoped it wouldn't be necessary. In the end all of you are right and I did not plan to put this down to the whims of Siegfried.
Ftiz von Kastilien is banned IC from the Diet. This means that neither he can speak nor any messages from him will be read. If a messenger starts proclaiming stuff in the name of Fritz, he will not be heard, just to clarify that for the future. In that way the ban does extend towards proxies, as PK has shown.
However, as all others have also rightfully mentionend the ban is IC. Tamur is not banned from the Diet thread. Considering the Diet is an IC thread and thus Tamur can't make any OOC comments there, his options are quite scarce. The only thing his posts can achieve then, is to try to add some flavour to the Diet. His post is the only way I can think they could even work, to be honest.
I believe everyone here understands what a banning from the Diet involves, and no one has crossed that line. Let's not blow this whole thing out of proportion. If Tamur had Fritz speak in his recent post, econ21 would surely have deleted it. Nothing has happened, I think we can just move on with our regular posting.
Sorry Sstig but where did you announce your female heir because I'm stuggling to have an argument when I don't actually know what I'm talking about lol
Ansehelm announced it in the Diet. I can't stress how much of a legal bomb this potentially is. Prince Elberhard just got an IC letter chock full of legal questions that should send his lawyers and scribes into catatonic shock for weeks. :yes:
:dizzy2:
I just dled the save, but due to school and what not, I can only fight it tomorrow afternoon so dont expect me to post the save until like late tomorrow night.
I think OK's rule is don't dl the save unless you can play it immediately.
I think Xdeathfire can only dl saves at school and play them at home or so.
HI all, just got back from the camping trip. SO I can fight any battles. But just gots wasitname exp so will off fpor a while...
btw, I am rather ashamed to see only 3 more pages in this thread after 4 days!
I got lost in the discussion... are we patching to 1.3 via the links that Stig provided, or are we staying with 1.2 until we get some kind of an official 1.3 patch?
The link is the official 1.3 patch.
And for the moment, I believe the sentiment is to wait till the next diet or so.
Anyone else feel really bored these days?
Actually, things are kinda hoppin if your a Franconian, or as Jan is, at least of Franconian blood. The possibility that the next Duke of Franconia could be Russian or Moorish has me falling over laughing OOC and completely mortified IC. :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by FactionHeir
I'm as bored as bat shiet :yes:
Then you need to have Arnold name a controversial heir. Like Grom. Or Dieter's dog. :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieGiant
meh, I'm just waiting to die so I haven't been keeping up as closely as I have been.
Oh, you all sound like you need to go back to bed and wake up in a couple of days with some very good hot chocolate in your lives. Speaking of that... *runs off to the fridge*
Yeah so. You say I can't flame you, but you do make these remarks. That's just hipocritical, would I make them you would be all over the place screaming and kicking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Privateerkev
Stig and Privateerkev:
~:grouphug:
OOC, I have zero problem with Ansehelm's choice of heir.
IC, I believe Ansehelm's choice of heir is nothing short of explosive.
As far as I know, these two statements can live together in harmony and do not "flame" you. I think it was an exciting move on your part and will cause some cool debate in the Diet. If you've noticed, I have not raised questions about the rules concerning this OOC. I have contained the questions to IC because I think it is an IC concern. :yes:
There can be no discussion IC m8, because there's nothing to discuss about :laugh4:
seriously
Well, the Franconians might not be seeing Ansehelm as having too much authority, so they end up discussing it anyway. Time to get the whip out of the closet for him! :yes: