I'm going for South Africa and New Zealand now that the sides I was cheering for are out, but my heart is still with the Irish and the Welsh. It's a pity they're gone.
Printable View
I'm going for South Africa and New Zealand now that the sides I was cheering for are out, but my heart is still with the Irish and the Welsh. It's a pity they're gone.
There's something about the irish that mystifies everything, at least for me. It was a shame that they ended on the same group as France and my national team. I would have loved to meet them later.:2thumbsup:
This is one of the many reasons why I generally play down the fact I'm Welsh...
We mystify ourselves. :shocked2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulforged
My theory is that the moment anyone applies the epithet "Golden Generation" to any team, they might as well give up there and then.
Congratulations to Argentina, of course. Whatever our failings, they played superbly - controlled, focussed rugby that I couldn't help admire. The Pumas fully deserve their top of the table position, and an almost certain semi-final place. About time they joined the Six Nations and get the opportunity to humiliate Ireland on a regular basis.
And commiserations to Wales, but what a game! Great passion from Fiji. The smaller teams have been a revelation this World Cup - it's an outrage that the moneylenders are talking about reducing to 16 for next time.
At least my tickets for Cardiff are going to be to watch a couple of excellent teams go hammer and tongs. Anyone got a spare dark blue jersey?
Not a nice feeling, is it BKS? :no:Quote:
Originally Posted by Big King Sanctaphrax
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Diablo
Exactly, it all depends which French team turns up on the day. When the French concentrate on their rugby instead of getting either temperamental or lethargic (which they are capable of in equal measures) they are a serious team that is great to watch, and I grit my teeth when I say this (as every good Englishman should) but... "Allez les Bleus!" :2thumbsup:
England 12 Wallabies 10.
WOW!
Into the semis. :2thumbsup:
Oh
My
Goodness.
Nice to be wrong!:jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping:Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Gloucester
ENGLAND! ENGLAND!
It would be quite an achievement to win the cup this time, having to beat Australia, France/NewZealand and (in all probability) South Africa one after the other. But I think this performance will give the whole team a massive confidence boost and who knows now? :2thumbsup:
Glad to see the back of that disrespectful Aussie team. :whip:
Bloody hell, I wish I'd put a couple of quid on an England-France Semi-final...
Jesus-on-a-Stick!
England vs France? Where in Hades own eternal damned kingdom did that come from?!
from land of Hope and Glory man!Quote:
Originally Posted by Justiciar
Allez les Bleus!!!!:balloon2: :balloon2: :balloon2:
I am getting a serious bollocking from my mates down here.
Oh dear, apparently that English ref was quite awful.
ENGLAND!
Now I've got to put up with whinging Aussies, :laugh4:. The joys of dual-citizenship.
Wow, what a turn up for the books, eh? Whoever thought the English beating the Australians was just short of a miracle (and it was) had another thing coming.
In all honesty, no one (but the French team) thought they would repeat their feat against The All Blacks from '99. I am actually quite dumbfounded. I never thought it possible as The All Blacks played so dominantly for the past three years. Given, they may not have had a proper test in the preliminary rounds but that team showed so much class all round, they were the sure winners of the cup in all but actually achieving it.
It pains me to concratulate England for their win but they thoroughly deserve it. They took the Aussies apart where it hurts most - the scrum. They literally annihilated them up front. England still has very little to show in the back line but finally shows some promise up front where they have been lacking severely for the past year or two.
Australia came out and seemed not at all convinced themselves they could actually win which is very strange as they definitely have the better team. They did not look at all confident all game and it showed early on.
The french. What can I say? Another marvellous team effort. On the individual basis they are nowhere near the NZ team (with, perhaps, one or two exceptions) but when a combined effort is asked of them, they are all there.
As soon as Chabal and Michalak were on, you had the feeling that this is going to be the day of Les Bleus. What a mammoth effort in defense! They tackled back one wave after the other. Was great to see. If they play like that against England in the semis, I can't see the Pommies win. But then, what do I know? I was sure the All Blacks would take this one home. If not them, then definitely another Southern Hemisphere team...
Go Scotland!
Quid
"In an online poll by New Zealand's TV3 network, 55% of respondents blamed referee Barnes for the loss; 19% blamed the All Blacks and 7% blamed coach Graham Henry."
New Zealanders are also coplaining about French forward passes... that's rich coming from a team that completes more forward passes than they do backwards passes. Everyone just stands and stares at their feet then don't they.
Does this sound like sour grapes? Only 19% max blamed the French being the better team for the French victory. Christ, they should feel lucky that they didn't have to experience the blatant favouritism shown by Andre Watson in the last RWC final.
A quick question for any French rugby followers. Why the hell was it left so late to bring on Chabal and Michalak? Chabal is big, strong and intimidating (also has played well against NZ before), and Michalak is just, well... Michalak.
Michalak is French rugby in one person. One day (or any given ten minutes) he can be sublime, inspired, magical. The next he is sullen, wayward, maddening. You never know what you're going to get.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug For A Butt
Chabal is an impact player, not an eighty-minuter. If he starts, he'll be yanked off after half-time. He can be a loose cannon - but I watched his face on the big screen as the haka was performed and I thought he was going to eat Dan Carter right there without cooking him first.
Laporte played a canny game, kicking and stifling in the first half. I suspect he was planning to do the same for the second half, but the French soul just took over and the substitutions inspired the lot of them.
There were more Irishmen in Cardiff than French and I like to think we lifted Les Bleus with our stirring renditions of "The Fields of Athenry". Lord knows, it was wasted on our lot.
Oh and congratulations to England too. Dull and predictable as always, but my goodness what spirit and courage. Serves the Aussies right. Arrogance has to be backed up on the field, not taken as a right. Oh, and next time bring some men to the scrummage - the schoolgirls that turned up to play with the English were out of their depth.
The 'Boks had a fair old battle this afternoon too. Let's hope Scotland and the Pumas do this World Cup justice - let's face it, what a set of quarters!
Yep, I thought that was priceless too. Chabal made ME shit my pants then, imagine when he is two feet away from you. :sweatdrop:Quote:
Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost
Congratulations to the Pumas, they deserved it although they weren't at their best. Scotland were their usual lets paint our faces blue and charge for Scotland selves, but I really think they need to start playing smarter. Argentina were much more in control I thought.
Roll on next weekend, I think France and England will have a good old ding-dong, and it's OK saying England will be predictable but if our forwards control the game like we did against the Aussie girls there will be nothing for the French backs to exploit. Wishful thinking I know, but let's see a good game. :2thumbsup: (Also it will be nice to play against a team that is brave enough to scrummage, unlike the Aussies).
BG gave a great answer already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug For A Butt
Chabal is God, but he must not be overestimated. He's a shock player, he has been used to fantastic effect on Saturday.
About Michalak I'm not so sure - I think I may have trusted him for this big one. But he is a risk. Much more so than Lionel Beauxis, a fantastic talent.
After reviewing the game twice with some mates, I can say that the kiwis lost a large amount of points due to touch judges and the referee.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug For A Butt
A french try was off the most blatant forward pass I have ever seen, the AB's backs were shut down by constant offside play by the French. McCalaster's sending of was a complete joke, worst call in rugby history.
The Touch judges were also instructed not to instruct the referee on possible infringement by the IRB.
Overall it was not a fair match IMHO.
No offense to the French but just a look at the statistics of that match shows something not right happened.
Look back at the other NZ games of this world cup and you will see that it is the biter that got bitten this time, forward passes have not been uncommon in NZ matches, just this time they were on the wrong end of one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar
McCallisters sending off was correct for obstruction in my opinion (although I don't like to see elements of football theatrics enter Rugby).
And a northern hemisphere referee generally seeming a little leniant to a northern hemisphere team IN the northern hemisphere is no different to what happened in the final four years ago in the southern hemisphere. Were anyone except the English feeling a sense of injustice there? No.
And on the subject of unfairness, was it fair to lose Betson to a knockout blow while he was on his back? I think the All Blacks can count themselves lucky to get away with keeping 15 men there don't you?
First to gloat.
:balloon2:
I spent the vast majority of that game berating Wilkinson as a talentless ejit who kicks like a drunken amputee. Suffice to say, he redeemed himself. Anyhoo.. Yay England! Touch goal in the SECOND MINUTE! Have it.
France played much better Rugby, though. :quiet:
Bugger. :shame:
If it weren't for a measly five centimeters and about two hundred English rugby players jumping on him Chabal would've scored the winning try. ~:mecry:
Bah, a kicking game is ugly and you'll never beat England with it.
[/sulking]
Hurrah!
It wasn't a pretty game, but it was an exciting one. The only thing between the teams at the end of the day was that fantastic tap-tackle. I wish our footballers could play with the kind of belief and desire the rugby side are at the moment, maybe they could get to a final as well.
I hope the Argies beat SA now, that way whoever wins the final it'll be something of a fairy-tale story.
Something I haven't seen between the world cups, but who cares, the belief is there now! :grin: :grin: :grin:Quote:
belief
The whole world bar enland must hate Johnny Wilkinson, but the French have no ground left to stand on, since all their points came from kicking.
Aww am I the only SA supporter here?
WOO go SA
Whoooo! And we scored a try.
Damn I've got a big hangover this lunchtime, thanks for that England!
Not a pretty game, and for a long time the more accurate French kicking pinned us back in our own half.
We all groaned when we saw Chabal come on, and we all groaned when we saw him carry about 4 Englishmen on his back to within a few feet of the line before collapsing like a drugged elephant. But I thought the overall English defence was very good yesterday including that game saving tap tackle by Worsley :sweatdrop: .
From worst defending champions to finalists in a month! What price England for the cup now?
I'm feverishly searching the web for flights to Paris next Saturday, my wife's idea no less! Looking a bit expensive though, over £500 for one night in Paris sleeping on a street might just change her mind. Still, I'll keep looking.
Thanks England for making me feel proud again! :balloon2:
Congratulations to England for another gutsy, hard-fought performance. It's like watching a train crash - horrible, but somehow compelling.
Laporte finally came unstuck. His attempt to drive the wild, undisciplined passion from France succeeded only as far as a World Cup semi-final - and they've managed that before in the old Gallic tradition, so no gain there. Removing Beauxis was done by numbers, not by need - oh, it's the 51st minute, time for changes. France couldn't bring themselves to play to win, only play not to lose, which is always a mistake. And in a final irony, it was a flash of the old indiscipline surfacing despite all the indoctrination that broke the back of their campaign.
One more thing the English are excellent at is crowing - after the win (note to antipodeans). A couple of snippets from emails I have been sent:
IKEA's new Wallabies furniture range: Delivered as a flattened pack.
Marks and Spencer's have just launced the new All-Black bra: Lots of support, but no cup.
:laugh4: :2thumbsup:
Wow....I managed to stay calm for the first 70 minutes, but the last 10 I was screaming at the telly!
We've been so bad for the last 3 years and now we're 80 minutes away fro retaining our title - unbelievable.
Most telling comment for me after the game came from Dallaglio - "we weren't playing with enough intensity, but since the South Africa game we've sorted it". So true. But their kicking in the final MUST be better, JW for points, trying to find touch and up and unders that don't go to deep.
Anyone else trying to get to Paris for the final?
I'm desperately trying to find flights or ferries. But all the flights I can find are horrifically expensive and the ferries seem to be booked up (wanting to go Saturday come back Sunday not too early so the beer wears off).
If anyone else is having any more luck, I'd appreciate some help.
EDIT: @ Banquo
Sales of condoms have plummeted in France since the semi yesterday where it was proved that you only need 1 johnny to **** 15 frenchies. (No offence, it's just a joke ~;) )
Springboks 10-3 Pumas
I may well be half-right :grin:
Hmm, at least England have a chance to exact revenge on South Africa now.
Whether or not they do is another story...
After seeing the match tonight, I'm much more optimistic about Englands chances in the final.
SA created pretty much nothing, OK they fed off some pretty naive schoolboy mistakes from Argentina but apart from the disallowed try for a forward pass they created nothing (it was fine build up play though).
Argentina choked big style, they made it look like the ball was a bar of wet soap. England won't be as bad with the error count I'm sure.
SA's line out looked damn solid, but then again so did France's. I can't wait to see how the scrums go though, I think England will have an edge there.
Very clever play by SA nullifying Argentina's superior maul tonight, turning it into obstruction. Someones been wearing their clever hat in the SA camp.
All in all, I can't wait for next wekend, SA will have a rude awakening if they expect the same bunch that they have faced over the last 3 years.
Btw, looking pretty impossible to get to Paris next weekend. :wall: Looks like I'm looking for a big screen in old Blighty. :shame:
Yes, Argentina was inferior to South Africa specially on the line outs, I was suprised at how much security that team had on the line outs, they were like fishes on water on those situations. But the mauls were a different story. The referee was spot on on many situations but on the mauls there were numerous lateral dives from some crazed suicidal bock that were not paid. The referee warned them but never charged them with nothing on the maul.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug For A Butt
The mistakes on the lineouts were a nerve breaker and then they, the Pumas, started to commit a lot of errors. Well I'm waiting for the revenge of France on friday, too bad they're not gonna get it.:2thumbsup: joking
Hah! I'm usually not a big fan of loser finals, but there is some unfinished business to attend to in this one...:whip:Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulforged
Prepare to bleed. :knight:
Edit: Oh, the final should be good. Will be interesting, an entirely different game this time round I guess. Go...uh, either one!
I'm not a big fan of loser finals either... unless my team is in it. :idea2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
France should beat Argentina comfortably now that the bubble has burst. But just think, France would have been facing the Boks in the semi if they had stopped that bubble forming in the first place. And I reckon France may have fared better against the Boks (another bully team like NZ) than they did against their Hoodoo team (England).
:laugh4::applause:Quote:
Marks and Spencer's have just launced the new All-Black bra: Lots of support, but no cup.
:laugh4:
That's a new one that I haven't heard Myrddraal. One joke which I'm sick of hearing people cite over and over however is:
"What's the difference between the All Blacks and a tea bag?"
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
:laugh4:
So Gentlemen, as we approach the final game...who are you with? I think England was not all of that in the beginning of the cup, but got better and better. The springboks played as far as I can tell very constant on a good level [correct me if I am wrong].
I am very undecided & I guess I will decide right at the beginning of the game...Just looking frwrd. to the final....Beamish & rugby...what more does one want?.
Will be hoping for South Africa to do the business. Wouldn't say it's clear which
way this one's going to go by any means, however.
Yup, I think it will be a tight one to call too.
If the English forwards can drag the SA team into trench warfare then I think England have a fair chance (they are 100% better than in the first game or the one before that or the one before that etc).
If SA can keep the English forwards at bay then their backs can be a big influence.
SA lineout looks better, but I think England may have the advantage in the scrum.
Taking all this into account, I think England will win 93-0 (it would be 105-0 except for Johnny's missed conversions). Ummm...what....did someone wake me up now? :Zzzz: Damn it was all just a dream...dream...dream... :Zzzz:
But yeah... a hard one to call. A fitting finale.
For that joke alone, I hope they do! :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug For A Butt
But seriously. I can see it go either way for so many reasons too. There's no telling what will happen.
A good curry afterwards when I'm drunk. ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Subedei
GAH! I can't find any betting shops online that will give me a price on 93-0 to England. The closest I have found is England to win by 60 points and that is only 150-1. I'm going to visit the local betting shop and get a price on 93-0 (and I may take my camera to get their reaction). I'll let you know what odds I get because I've got to do it... I'm feeling lucky.
I'm feeling anything but lucky following our shocking performance in other sports. :shame:
The rugby boys have got to bloody win now, or I'll be really depressed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythmic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
It cannot be seen but there's blood on the green
Only God knows I'm innocent
Take me, take me home
A dark seed reigns in me like the Storm rules over the sea
I challenge thee, do not cross this bridge alone
But they did, and they were driven back again. An historic moment for the Pumas, sorry Louis but I've to enjoy it while I can...
Good for you, Soulforged.
Okay, so this World Cup is now over. You can all go home. Thanks for participating and it's been a pleasure to have hosted it from my tax money.
Toodle-pip and we'll all meet again in four years.
Beirut, BKS, thanks for hosting, you can close this thread now. :bow:
I would Louis, but I'm getting the niggling feeling that there's something...left to do? Some kind of closing ceremony or something. ~;)
I went to Trafalgar Square today, to see this-
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...nd/1600685.jpg
Where are you all watching the game? Anyone in central London for it?
I considered a trip to Trafalgar Square.....with my bow and a flaming arrow.
Is this what rugby fans want to see? Drop goals? Penalty kicks? Rugby went through this stagnant phase where tries became scarce and they upped the value to 5 points to try to encourage running rugby (anyone played when tries were 3 points with 1 point conversions?). Now we see rugby league defences but union has mauls and rucks, unlike the more continuous league game, so we now see stifled three quarters and more and more cross kicks. Something needs to be altered in the rules in order to drag the donkeys back into ball winning and thereby freeing up the field for open, expansive play. Nothing bores me more than 10 man games, try playing centre when it's a freezing day and the forwards want to keep the ball for themselves; I have and it certainly is no fun.
If today's game becomes another of these tedious displays it will be a sad indictment for rugby union
......Orda
Can't say I expected England to beat South Africa, but I certainly had my hopes. Oh well. C'est la vie. :shame:
Huzzah for South Africa, regardless! They certainly deserved it.
Cannot...believe...South...African...won...
Seriously? You didn't see that coming at all? :inquisitive:
WooT The Pumas third! Congrats to South Africa!
Congrats SA!!
But its a shame that All Blacks left soo early.. Gotta love the Haka
Yep, I saw that coming as well. Good for SA though. ~:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Justiciar
Gutting, absolute sadness....:embarassed:
First of all, congratulations to the Boks. They deserved it over the whole tournament. :applause: :applause:
I thought it was a good game that England played to their strengths, the SA's did get sucked into a forward battle and their forwards battled enough to win the penalties. The fleet footed SA backs were nowhere to be seen (the overrated Habana included) which means that England played it right.
The scoreline flatters SA, but they deserved to win... just. (I hope they've got a certain Aussie Video Ref on their christmas card list).
All in all, I'm damn proud of my team (the worst World Champions ever... :dizzy2: ) and I'm not sure without Wiki'ng it, but aren't the Aussies the only other team to appear in a RWC final as champions?
Well played to the Boks and thanks England. I'm proud of my team again. :2thumbsup:
EDIT: Just one thing. It's understandable for a ref to make a mistake in real time and under pressure. But how on earth can a Video Ref "make a mistake"? Maybe the mistake was trying to repay Andre Watson.:inquisitive:
Congratulations to SA, they played very well. We were never going to win against a line-out like that, they were great the whole night.
Yes, indeed. Worthy champions. :balloon:Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug For A Butt
I can't agree with you that Habana is over-rated. His tackling was ferocious and the battle between him and Sackey was a grand old ding-dong. (You've got a real star in the making with young Sackey). The game didn't allow for running. The Bokke played England at their own game-plan, and ironically England got beaten by uglier rugby than they could muster. That, and the fact they couldn't win a line-out, which is a bit of a drawback if you want to play a kick and scrum game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug For A Butt
You should certainly be proud of your team - England are a shining example of what sheer attitude and passion can do. And I'm not looking forward to facing them next February with our lot of prima donnas. :embarassed:
Because it wasn't a mistake. Cueto's foot grazed the chalk, and that's touch. Anyway, if it hadn't been for another, real refereeing mistake earlier on, the All-Blacks might well have sent you lot home for the semi-final. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug For A Butt
https://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5764/trypt7.jpg
Foot in touch + Ball not placed = no try... :sad:
Now I'm no expert on the rules, but why was that not a lineout to SA 5 metres from the line? We deserved something for that effort.
The referee was playing advantage, so it was a penalty to England.
I've only just got back and haven't seen that shot, however grainy and indecisive it is. Every other shot makes it look a good try, and that's all I've seen 'til now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrddraal
@ Banquo. Yes it's been a fine example of what teamwork, attitude and grit can do in the absence of pure talent, but don't get me started on NZ and forward passes. About time they suffered at the hands of one of their own trademark cons, even though they would have beaten England if they had won that game...they always do.
Whatever the result, which went to the better team and no matter how much England sorted out their problems, the fact still remains that their only tactic seemed to be a Gary Owen, thus creating another boring tennis match of a game. Ironically, their only real chance came when they actually ran the ball. One refereeing decision that nobody has mentioned since the night, is how no England forward was yellow carded for continually interefering with the ball. I can't remember when I last saw so many warnings go unpunished. Continuous infringements, especially those that prevent a sure try (like just before half time) should be dealt with firmly
........Orda
I think the refereeing has been pretty good tbh Orda. The refs can't spot everything, and what they do spot, they do deal with harshly. After all, if it wasn't for stupid penalties given away by England then the score line would have been very different.
When a player questions the referee, and immediately get's sent back 10 paces, I feel safe in the knowledge that the referee isn't being soft. Mistakes there will always be, but that's not something to complain about.
So you didn't hear Roland say he "won't warn you again", not too long before the last penalty in the first half ? The infringements were spotted and awarding penalties is one thing but one has to consider what to do when these infringements are a cynical means of preventing scores.
Hearing a referee constantly shouting "leave it number 6 (or whatever number) or "no hands!", when there are hands on the ball or when number 6 (or whatever number) has already committed the offence is a pain in the derriere. It does nothing but drag the game further down.
.....Rant Warning.....
Now South Africa has to suffer the political backlash yet again. Pathetic talk of 2/3 black players and other such multi racial nonsense. It seems the Boks are just the team that everyone loves to hate, all is well if they are being beaten regularly but things soon change when they are back on a winning streak. I remember watching the Springboks in awe, before they were banished. The most successful rugby union team (including the All Blacks, who they led in test series) I was certainly pleased when they returned to the rugby fold, now they have to constantly endure this treatment. Does that mean that New Zealand will field a team comprising 2/3 Maori's? That Australia will have a 66% Aboriginal presence? Will Ireland be a 50/50 split of Catholic and Protestant? Will playing for Wales depend on whether you can speak Welsh?
Sport is a recreation.....It should stay that way
......Orda
The Kiwis are All Black already.
Some thoughts:
- I think the strongest, most consistent team has won the tournament in the end. Congrats to South Africa, a worthy winner.
- I would've sworn that was a correct try on Saterday. From the camera angle from behind, you can clearly see Cueto lift up his foot, not touching the line while the ball contacts the ground.
Later on, I've learned, and saw, that his foot touched the line an instant before that. I have little doubt anymore that the video ref made the right decision.
- What to do with Argentina? Seven Nations? Four Nations Southern Hemi?
Or...a Latin Cup? Maybe bi-annual? France, Italy, Spain / Catalunia, Rumania, Portugal, Uruguay...
Maybe combined with an Anglo-cup. Tri-nations and the British Isles.
The winners of both can face each for a clash of civilisation.
- Calls for a racial quota for the Boks are outrageous. 75% of the indigenous population of France is white - yet take a look at the France football team, nicknamed by some, unfortunately, the All-Blacks. There's no call for a white quota either, is there? And rightly so. And who ever complaines about the US Basketball team?
- This was a great World Cup!:
The Saturday when France and England spanked the Southern Hemisphere is already a classic.
The smaller nations were great - especially the Pacific island teams.
Argentina was fantastic. Great attacking stuff too.
No World Cup yet for France. Alas, this was the best chance ever. But the team was good and did us proud. The games against Ireland and NZ were great, tense stuff.
It was a blast! :balloon2: :balloon2:
That would be great, though Uruguay isn't really at par, we're isolated in this here southwestern part of the Earth regarding Rugby. Our team truly needs an international anual competition to be able to strenghten itself. I think that the appropiate one is the Tri-Nations, since they're all on the southern hemispher. Too bad and too good that they're also the strongest rugby teams ever. I hope our team gets an opportunity, they've shown that they deserve at least that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
Well when I first saw the Southafrican team, I was really surprised to see so few black man in it. But I agree with you. The hypocrates are the first to talk about the mandatory black quota in everything.Quote:
Calls for a racial quota for the Boks are outrageous. 75% of the indigenous population of France is white - yet take a look at the France football team, nicknamed by some, unfortunately, the All-Blacks. There's no call for a white quota either, is there? And rightly so. And who ever complaines about the US Basketball team?
"Calls for a racial quota for the Boks are outrageous. 75% of the indigenous population of France is white - yet take a look at the France football team, nicknamed by some, unfortunately, the All-Blacks. There's no call for a white quota either, is there? And rightly so. And who ever complaines about the US Basketball team?"
Although I don't believe in racial quotas in sports teams in any case, unlike Anglo-saxon-celtic people in France and America, black South Africans were dispossessed and oppressed by a minority of foreign settlers for hundreds of years. "Apartheid" was founded on a legal fiction that blacks weren't actually part of the Republic of South Africa, but only their respective tribal homelands. Considering the historical context I can perfectly understand why some people would want the national sports teams to reflect to real ethnic composition of their country. It's all well and good to say "sport is recreation" but the reality of it is that anything which represents a country abroad is potentially political.
"That Australia will have a 66% Aboriginal presence"
FYI the population is not 66% Aboriginal.
Did I say it was?Quote:
Originally Posted by Furious Mental
Really Furious Mental, are you going to use that as a basis for an argument when above that, you state that black South Africans were dispossessed? I would argue that Aboriginal Australians were dispossessed. The same applies to other indigenous peoples. Forget history, sport is not about history it's about recreation and a National team should be a team selected not by one's colour but by one's ability.
Any political implications are only the creations of those who lose sight of the fact that it is a game
........Orda
Of course Aboriginal Australians were dispossessed. Did I say they weren't? But that's not the point. The point is that the ideological justification for refusing civil, social, and political rights to black South Africans was the fiction that they were citizens of other "countries", the tribal homelands. In this context I can absolutely understand that black South Africans would wish institutions that represent the country overseas to reflect the real ethnic composition of the country, as a countermand to the facade presented in the apartheid era that essentially the only South Africans were white South Africans. It's all well and good to complain that this is politicising a game but the reality of it is that rugby in South Africa is already polticised and has been since apartheid was founded; for the longest time teams were segregated and foreign tours had to drop non-Europeans from their squads. I am bemused at demands for racial quotas in the Springboks, but I am hardly surprised or outraged that there has been a reaction against the apparent dominance of whites in this area as in every aspect of society.
Careful guys, we're skirting dangerously close to backroom material here. Start a new thread there if you want to talk about ethinc makeup of teams please.
Maybe you should close the thread now that the tournament is over?
We can do recriminations/congratulations/postulations in a new thread here or the Backroom.
It's been a wonderful championship and an excellent thread too - thanks to all participants.
:bow: