Good, would hate to see a lone Tancred charge his mounted guard straight into a full stack of angry Poles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elite Ferret
:balloon2:
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Good, would hate to see a lone Tancred charge his mounted guard straight into a full stack of angry Poles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elite Ferret
:balloon2:
'One of the new ones' would be happy to serve Franconia in any capacity. You guys pick. It would certainly be more in context for me to take over an already present and older character, but I can't say I'm completely familiar with the flavor of Fritz's life.
I also want to say the battle of Bern seemed to come together perfectly from an outsider's perspective. Religious conflicts in history, especially those driven by strong personalities, so often result in immense slaughter and general loss of life that the way things worked out almost feels like the only way they could've ended.
:egypt:
I did. It wasn't really the slowness of the connection(as crappy as it was, it should have taken less than a minute or so) but each time I'd try, after a little while, I'd get some white screen of death and it never uploaded.Quote:
Originally Posted by FactionHeir
I hate aol, but I can't complain too much since I get it for free from another person in the apartment.
Edit: Since the uploader was acting up for Tincow as well, I guess it wasn't my connection's fault. Ah well, too late now.
TC mentioned that the uploader has been acting up a bit. How's mizus (the alternative uploader) working for you?
I haven't tried the alternative uploader yet, but given theat Tincow had problems with the normal one today, and I never had any before today, I'm guessing the alternative one will work fine for me.
battle fought and new save uploaded:http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1332.rar
the triple gold stack didn't even move :(
https://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6364/kotrow3.th.jpg
oh and Polish dude is dead-you can't see that from the screeny.
Yeah, happens a lot with AI reinforcing armies in a siege. They tend to just get stuck and wait for the timer to run out (meaning they lose). I think you can usually nudge them by taking out some of their missile troops/artillery in melee, but that isn't always easy.
Often if you let them open the first gate the reinforcements will come rushing for it (And die in droves on the towers of course).
:egypt:
*faints*
Swabia is doomed...
well, if althawolf can recall loyalist units from bern, I'd say he has a half decent army under his control.
Franconia and Bavaria aren't doing so well either. I took a gamble and sent Lothar to hold Milan with his army. I am now stuck and will have to face the gold stack when they assault. There's a huge difference between the 3 walls of a citadel and 1 wall of a city. :juggle2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignoramus
Your not the only one who gambled with their avatar this turn. Your in good company. :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
I don't know about Deguerra, but after looking at the save and seeing all those horrible French and Danish armies in and around Swabia, I'm not sure I'm chomping at the bit for something that will lower my character's life expectancy even further. :clown:
Of course, it's up to Prinz Hummel and von Salza, not lowly grunts like my character. :sweatdrop:
P.S. Duchy of Flanders, Warluster?
Quote:
Originally Posted by econ21
Austria's gotten off lightly; they haven't even lost Budapest yet.
Well seeing as it can't be Principility of Swabia, has to be something else. I've heard it called that a few times as before as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim
EDIT: Just remembered, I saw the name on a PM sent to me by someone.
I get the reasoning, I'm just a bit surprised. Giving it a name like that almost makes it sound more legitamate than if you had offered to keep theceasefire with, say, "the rebel Principality".
I really like the sound of it. The Duchy of Flanders :yes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warluster
I am sorry we are losing Tamur, but understand his reasons - thanks for making Fritz a vivid character!
Ramses II CP: a recruitable general was hired for you, but I think it would be much better if you took over Fritz as you agreed to. I know you wanted to play a loyalist, but reading Tamur's latest posts, it seems that the Lutheran firebrand is regretting his earlier excesses, so buckling down and serving loyally would be in character. Especially as his fellow rebel, Peter, is going to be made Prinz soon.
So Zim and Deguerra, you have the pick of the three spare avatars that were spawned last turn. I have updated the playlist to the best of my ability and entered the three as Swabians:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...81&postcount=1
I would you like you both to rank them in order of preference and I will assign them, giving first pick to Zim on a first come, first served basis. I need you both to make a choice asap or I will make it for you.
If you want to play a chivalrous character, you might put Ludwig Von Bohmen as your number 1. His stats will also give him extra influence in Diet votes.
Jan von der Pfalz has the highest command and is a blank slate as regards chivalry and dread (that choice tends to mean quite a lot in the KotR role-playing).
Jens Merode looks the least appealing character, but he shares his surname with Huho Merode, the slain general of the Lutheran Relief Army. So if you want a ready made backstory for why you are siding with Hummel vs the Swabian loyalists, put him number 1. He is also embarking on the dreadful path.
I have marked where the characters spawn in the table in the Count column, but they are not Counts of those places. It is just for information. TinCow can use the console to teleport you, so the location should not be important. Just because you start in Nuremburg, it does mean you will be out of things in Swabia - you can be moved over easily.
Also, just because Jan spawned in Bern, it does not mean he gets command of the loyalist army or Hans' treasury! I expect TC will move him out sharpish.
1.Ludwig
2.Jan
3. Jens
for me thanks
Having looked at the savegame, I must say the cataclysm is working out just as we hoped. All the Houses, and Outremer, have been reduced considerably and the pressure the AI is putting us under is now palpable. :2thumbsup: I have some ideas for how we can maintain the challenge post-cataclysm and will post them soon.
One idea I would like to throw out about Swabia OOC is the following. The House is imploding and the AI is finally taking advantage of the internal divisions. The balance of forces between Hummel and the loyalists seems rather even, so a compromise seems possible. In the short term, a ceasefire or something would be enough. In the longer term, one possiblity is to keep Swabia whole but have a "third way" Duke - neither Hummel nor Von Salza. OOC, I would suggest Zim. I know from his PBMs that he is a reliable player who can organise things and keep active. I think OOC he would a good Duke. Coming in with a new avatar and fairly blank slate, he might be agreeable as a compromise figure. I am just mentioning it OOC, as my motivation is largely OOC. Both Ignoramus and von Salza get rather busy from time to time, frequently missing deadlines in PBMs. This hinders their OOC ability to take on a role such as Duke, plus their IC conflict makes that they would be willing to bow down to each other.
This is just a suggestion. A Duchy of Flanders would be a perfectly acceptable solution. I think the PBM is ready for a more "messy" allocation of provinces to Houses and indeed to weaken the four House structure. It is just that Hummel may well have to reconquer Flanders from the AI in order to get his fourth House and he may not have the resources to do so.
9 months and 7 international flights have never seen so much going in!!!
I'm off line for about 40 hours and I'm still trying to work out what's just happened :-)
The battle at Bern by itself is indication enough that we have all done a great job in agreeing to artificially create this mess.
Both of the Swabians will start in Antwerp, no matter who they are. Their location in the save right now is not important. They spawned in multiple places because I had to use Huge Cities that would not be besieged during the AI turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by econ21
This is another problem that arises from looking at a save that is not remotely finalized.
Fritz it is! Contrition will be the order of the day. :yes:
Let me present an OOC defense of an Athawolf Duke. I agree that Warluster skips deadlines and I am sure Zim will be an active player. But...
1.) Warluster got screwed out of being Kaiser by a stray catapult shot. Holding out and being loyal to Hans was his shot at playing a Duke. He kept his end of the bargain IC so he is entitled to it IMHO.
2.) Zim is playing an RBG. Currently, RBG's can't be dukes because they are out of the family tree. On a strictly OOC level, I like this because it encourages more people to take avatars in the family tree. It is why I am staying in the family tree and I strongly suspect it is why GH is as well, claims of "self-punishment" not withstanding. It seems we're both trying to become Duke in our respective Houses.
The point is, a claim on a Dukeship is one of the few rewards left for staying in the family tree and keeping to the family tree is good for the game. While the RBG's are a nice "stop-gap" measure, the family tree provides some rich role-playing dynamics and family politics. Keeping Dukeships "in the family" is one of the few reasons to persuade people to wait around as a generic elector until their family tree avatar comes of age.
(Also treating RBG's unfairly could provide for some great drama later on. Men of a "lesser sort" overthrowing the nobility, in order to claim equal treatment, is an old tradition.) ^_^
Ha! Looking forward to that. He's been a bad boy :pirate2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramses
PK, those are good points. I was just throwing the idea out for Ignoramus and Warluster to think on. We can let the Swabians debate it IC. If they go for it, it may require a Charter Amendment (I had not thought about the Dukes must be on the family tree constraint). But then so would a number of other peace deals (eg a Duchy of Flanders).Quote:
Originally Posted by Privateerkev
I don't know where you're getting that from. I see nothing in the rules that restricts who can be Duke and who cannot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Privateerkev
I did actually sally to kill the men on the ram which ended up very messy as I couldn't get the gates to close again :wall: but I eventually killed all their infantry and then the rest of them just stood still. I also sent out a unit if crossbowmen which meant that one of their units came to sit in front of their towers but, good sport as I am :beam: , I abandoned the walls and sent out Dieter and his guard to get some experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by FactionHeir
Now the only problem is working out how Dieter will react to the death of Jan, i may have him sally out to his death or sneak away to exact revenge on Dietrich supporters, plenty of options :juggle2: .
It seems to be inherent in section 4. A holdover from the beginning of the game when Dietrich von Saxony, Maximillian Mandorf, and Otto von Kassel were Generals outside of the family tree.Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Therefore, we seem to have a rule that says that a Duke can only come from the family tree. In my opinion, this is a good thing. We're roleplaying a system of fuedalism and limiting certain titles to "nobles" is part of that. I want us to treat the RBG's unfairly. RBG's are men of a "lesser sort" and are not eligible for certain titles/rights.
Now, RBG's can (and should) resent this and could band together to change the Charter. This has happened in history before. An overstretched empire needs to rely more and more on men from the lower classes. Those lower classes then agitate for more rights. Could lead to a revolution or at least legislative reform. Either way I think it would be fun! :yes:
Since Deguerra would like to play Ludwig, I'll take Jan von der Pfalz. His mid-level in everything stats make him seem like I could take him anywhere roleplaying.
I'll catch up on the rest of the thread right now, jus wanted to get that done quickly as Econ asked.
OK, so it is confirmed.
Ramses II CP takes on Fritz von Kastilien
Zim takes on Jan von der Pfalz
Deguerra takes on Ludwig von Bohmen
I've updated the playlist.
I have to say, I'm quite surprised by Econ's suggestion (and his kind words).
If Warluster and Ignoramus are ok with it, I would be happy to have Jan take up the dukeship, or stewardship of Swabia. It is up to them and the diet, however. Both of their characters have better IC reaons to be duke. At best, Jan would be a compromise.
As an aside, I also support OOC the "Duchy of Flanders" idea, as long as that Duchy is recognized to include Caen, whether or not it has fallen.
P.S. Don't forget my character's pointy spear wielding compatriots, Tincow. I think, given the situation, he'll need them. ~;)
I have to agree with PK, I think Warluster should have right of first refusal, no offence Zim, but I find it hard to justify getting an RGBG appointed Duke of Swabia.
I fully disagree. Those rules were specifically designed to deal with the situation at the start of the game, as is obvious from their language. Given that I was Maximillian Mandorf, I am very much familiar with the purpose of that rule when it was written. I am against inventing rules where they do not exist, especially when they hurt the game. The way the rules are written, we should not even be allowing recruitable generals at all, but we are because it is better for the game. Given the large number of recruitable generals we are now using, I think that restricting Dukedoms to family members will have a detrimental impact on KOTR. It is not the players' fault that there are no avatars available for them and as we have seen, having people sit around and do nothing while waiting for one is a poor solution. Ask Northnovas about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Privateerkev
Remember also that it is now essentially impossible for recruitable generals to be adopted. Due to territory losses from the cataclysm, we have far more family members than provinces and as such no new births or adoptions are likely to happen anytime soon. We are also not far off from ending KOTR; I would guess 2-3 more Chancellorships. Thus we have a situation in which new players can take a recruitable general, but are forced to be totally barred from significant political advancement, or wait for a new avatar which may result in them getting only a few turns of play time before the entire game ends. That is very unfair and will stifle the game.
If you want to restrict Dukedoms to family members, that can be done by a specific Charter Amendment which will leave no room for debate. I do not consider it to be an unclear situation, but if we want to be very sure about it, we can say that it is and have Elberhard (econ21) rule on it in his role as Kaiser. I would then urge him not to restrict it to family members for the reasons I gave above.
Maybe my character could be declared "Steward" for the duration of the Cataclysm, and charged with preventing warring between the two sides and directing the early counter-offenses against the French. This would be a temporary compromise. IC, we would say it was effective until Kaiser Elberhard returns from Antioch (conveniently timed for the endof the Cataclysm).
Then, after the Cataclysm ends(what, five turns?) von Salza would again become Duke(or Hummel if somehow the Diet prefers it), and the argument over a possible Duchy of Flanders would be settled in the Diet.
TC,
My stance is nothing against the players. In the short time I have played with Zim, I have enjoyed very much how "into" the role he gets. Also, I am very much for the Dukes being "active" players. I believe a lot of the problems Swabia and Franconia have, stem from DG and XDeathfire being fairly inactive players when they were Dukes.
I just believe we have a bi-furcated system. Nobles are nobles. Commoners are not. I see the charter as reflecting this. It seems to limit certain titles to nobles. If people want this changed, I think it should be a CA for the next Diet. If we want to roleplay something close to feudalism, then lets show those kind of divides.
I would rather see the "commoners" fight for their rights IC than have them handed to them OOC. It would make for an exciting Diet session and has some precendent in history. It also shows the strain that the cataclysm is showing on the HRE. We are getting pressed for manpower and are forced to recruit more and more men of the "lesser sort". This creates an in-game tension that should be fun and dramatic. The RBG's can unite across House lines and demand to be treated fairly.
"Mid-level generals of the Reich unite!" :2thumbsup:
I think econ meant for you to become Duke post-cataclysm too.
Anyway, my view on this is that Warluster should stay Duke, as ICly this only makes sense:
Ignoramus' character is for seceding his principality from the empire, while Warluster is for keeping Swabia inside the empire. Giving the Dukeship to a player from either side (there is no "neutral" here) is basically either saying "secede" or "stay", and the other side will be unhappy. However, in the grand scheme of things, it would make more sense for the Duchy to stay with the empire but possibly break into two separate houses, so both Ignoramus and Warluster would end up Duke of each a smaller piece of land.
I also agree with PK's view on things that recruited generals should not be entirely treated as part of the royal family, which is slowly diminishing. Generals thus can also cross house lines and say join another house. See them as mercenaries in a way and they have their own freedom. You can bind them by giving them incentives, but they shouldn't become Duke or Emperor (edit: unless adopted, which is very likely once the cataclysm is over and we rush for land).
I know, but I think it would work better as a temporary fix. Things are unstable now, with von Salza and Hummel strongly opposed to eachother. A compromise would help more during the Cataclysm. Later, after order is restored, the Diet can decide on the justice of different proposals and the emperor can just crush any remaining rebellions.Quote:
Originally Posted by FactionHeir
As I said earlier, maybe the Swabians should pursue the issue of a peace settlement in character? The two sides could sort out their positions in their own House/Principality threads, then PM each other or use the IMS? I think it is the kind of thing best done IC.
On another matter, TinCow just mentioned the end of KOTR not being far off. To clarify, this question was raised in a PM exchange between us. We don't have strong feelings - it depends how much fun the game is down the line. However, he did mentioned having a vote on wrapping it up in about 2-3 Chancellorships time - which I guess would be some time early in the new year.
That chrystalises one point I wanted to raise with Privateerkev - I was going to do it by PM, but the OOC thread is as good as any. I was a little shocked to see the age of the avatar you have chosen, Andreas von Hamburg. IIRC, he is 2 years old. Characters age 1 year every 2 turns and come of age at 16. So you would be looking at about 28 turns before you have an avatar. Let's say each turn takes 3 days in real life and you would be looking at three months without an avatar. That just seems like a long time for a very active player to be without an avatar and I was wondering if you would reconsider or adopt a temporary one in the mean time?
For example, we just spawned a Franconian, Jens Merode, who is now not needed by anyone else?
By contrast, Factionheir already has a new avatar. GeneralHankerchief's pick matures around the time of the next Diet, so does not seem to be such a problem. And he has suggested role-playing Luther in the interim.
Good points. Here was the reasoning behind my avatar decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by econ21
A.) I guess I saw the game as going on for longer than 3 Chancellorships. I am up for keeping this game going for a long long time.
B.) I plan on being very active with Alfgarda and have already interjected her into many plots and sub-plots.
C.) I am actually looking for a little bit of a break. I only have 3-4 weeks left in this semester and things are getting busy.
D.) I have been getting involved more with the Kingdoms Hotseat campaigns going on in the Throne Room. I might end up running one of them soon. (like tomorrow) They take less time than KotR but they still eat up limited free time. It is important to me that a vibrant Kingdom Hotseat community develops and I would like to see a campaign make it past turn 5. :wall:
So, I love this game and I plan on remaining very active. But not having an avatar allows me a certain amount of flexibility since I don't have to submit orders or fight battles. So, for now, I do not mind remaining avatarless. If I get bored or an opportunity opens up to take a cool avatar, I might jump at it. But for now, I would like the added flexibility. :yes:
Banning RBGs from Dukeships will cause specific problems right now. It means that as Duke of Bavaria, my only options for heir are three players who have already held major positions (Stuperman, who was Duke of Bavaria before me, GeneralHankerchief, who was Kaiser Heinrich and King Conrad Salier, and OverKnight, who was the first Duke of Bavaria). As econ21 has pointed out before, monopolizing positions of power amongst a few select players is not ideal.
In addition, it is entirely possible that the cataclysm could end with an independant Duchy of Flanders. In such a situation, there could be no possible heir when Wolfgang dies, because he has no children and his new loyalists do not count. That is, frankly, absurd.
I also disagree that barring RBGs from Dukeships is realistic. Nobility can give titles to men of lower rank as much as they want. It would be entirely realistic for the Duke of Bavaria to produce some questionably valid document that says that Friedrich Karolinger is of true noble blood and thus can inherit the title. If other Electors want to contest that (and rebel against him) that would be their right and also in-character. However, it was common practice in medieval Europe to simply produce forged documents to prove bloodlines that didn't really exist, so that political alliances could move forward. Enforcing this rule (which I still say does NOT exist in the Charter and must be actively added by a CA) will thus be going against both history and game enjoyment.
If the game ends in 2-3, then we won't set sail as you had insisted a few months back econ? :grin2:
TC,
I guess we fundamentally disagree with what the Charter says regarding who can be Duke. I believe it is already codified that RBG's can not be Duke. (Section 4 has some good points that support my stance.)You see the opposite. I'll go with whatever Econ says about it.Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
That being said, something else has now come up with regards to this subject. It's now being bandied about that we might be ending the game soon. If we are indeed ending the game soon, then I will object a whole lot less to RBG Dukes.
If we are ending the game, then I don't care if we chuck some of the rules. My stance was more for the long-term benefit of starting a "class war". If we're ending the game soon, then that point is moot. :bow:
Given the amont of opposition, if Warluster does not think it a good idea, I may drop out of the Dukeship race. I'd rather not enter game beng resented by everyone in and out of character (unless it makes for good roleplaying! :beam: ).
I would like to heartily support the idea of recruitable generals being allowed into high ranks. I never saw non family member generals as non-nobles. I just figured they were not directly related to the king/emperor/whatever. I doubt every major leader in midieval England or the Holy Roman Empire was related to the King/Emperor( at least until after a few centuries of inbreeding).
OOC reasons have already been given. I agree that restrictions woube unfair, and perhaps from studying constitutions so long, I share Tincow's dislike for creating rules where they don't exist, especially when they only hurt people.
I'd be glad to fight for the rights of these generals OOC or within the game, of course! :beam:
The way I read section 4, I truly believe the rule already exists. But I'll go with what Econ says. Also, if we're ending soon, I'll drop my objection completely. :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim
I wrote the post befre seeing your most recent spoiler. It does indeed seem to imply only family members can become dukes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Privateerkev
Then the fight moves on to IC! :charge:
Also, I note you didn't disagree with the part about resenting me. ~;) :clown:
I think one of the main reasons it was brought up that the Dukeship could pass to someone else was the OOC notion (which I don't really agree with in all honesty) that players should not hold more than 1 significant post (emperor, duke) for the entire game until everyone else eligible had. Personally, I think this is very restricting and makes no sense ICly, and we are mainly here to roleplay, not to impose rules on people.
Zim,Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim
It is because I secretly hate your guts.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
My objection has to do with how I read the rules and with my desire to see class warfare develop.
I already knew it deep down inside yet it still makes me sad. ~:(Quote:
Originally Posted by Privateerkev
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
But in real class warfare, we'd greatly outnumber the nobles. As it is, we are a minority of what, two, three? :sweatdrop:Quote:
Originally Posted by Privateerkev
The section you cite is specifically referring to two characters that existed at the start of the game. You are reading it entirely out of context.Quote:
Originally Posted by Privateerkev
Exactly, so why am I being limited in which of my Counts I can name as my heir? Lothar is Duke of Bavaria, he should be able to name anyone he pleases to be his heir. If you want to tell him otherwise, you had best bring an army with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by FactionHeir
You do realize there is one at Bern and Bavaria also has Byzantines nearby?
I think we should settle it in a diet vote rather than strangle each other over it now. Its not US Presidential elections afterall.
Quite possibly. Won't be the first time I mis-read the Charter. (probably won't be the last either.) But I still think the rules governing the setup of the game are still applicable to the later-game. That is where my stance comes from. Therefore, from my point of view, my stance is already codified in the Charter and would not require a CA. There are now 6 RBG's. If they band together and make some alliances, they could easily pass a "RBG rights" CA at the next Diet.Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
If my sig wasn't already full, I would add this to it. Hilarious! :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Privateerkev
Ah, yes, scarcely an election goes by here without at least one strangled candidate. :inquisitive:Quote:
Originally Posted by FactionHeir
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I have no problems settling this in a Diet vote. However, if that is to happen I first want a clarification from the Kaiser (econ21) about what the rule is at this moment. That makes a huge difference, as the 'opposition' to whatever he picks will then have to come up with a 2/3 majority.
Recruitable generals of the World, unite!Quote:
Originally Posted by Privateerkev
:charge:
I'm totally cool with that. :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
as long as you agree that I'm right and declare me "lord of charter interpretation"
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I'm currently finalizing the next KOTRfix version (with a wealth of changes and fixes), and am needing an interpretation from a native English speaker.
What is "greater": "renowned" or "famous"?
I was checking through all ancillary icons and trait descriptions too and came across this for the VictorVirtue levels. Personally, I'd think Renowned is greater than Famous, but by all means, prove me wrong.
They seem to be synonyms. If I had to guess, I'd go with renowned being greater.
Yes, they indeed are, which is what makes this task so difficult. ~:)
In American English, at least, I'd say they're technically synonyms. Renowned does sound better, though. Someone could be famous for anything, good or bad. To be "renowned", I think a person would have to have accomplished something really great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FactionHeir
Well, the most common definition of renowned is famous. English is complicated like that. In common use, though, I'd say renowned is 'greater' if only because it is less used than famous. Renowned also inherently implies skill, IMHO, whereas famous does not. A famous swordsman might be famous for his luck, but he would never be renowned for his luck.
:egypt:
Great, thanks you three. Will change accordingly :bow:
What exactly is being changed and why?Quote:
Originally Posted by FactionHeir
It's nothing personal Zim, I just don't like the Idea of the Kaiser parachuting his man into the duke's seat. IC the kaiser doesn't have the political power, and it make sno sense after Hans made Von Salza his hier. I think that RGB should be able to be stewards and dukes, just they have to have earned it.
Lost track of all changes, but those are the ones I can remember:
- Fixed NightBattleCapable (I made an error with it in 1.29)
- Fixed a wealth of trait descriptors
- Fixed several ancillary icons to show something more suitable
- Added more triggers for some less used traits
- Adjusted chances of obtaining several traits
- Made it more difficult for muslim nations to gain certain vices and virtues (for religious reasons, I guess)
- Changed a few traits effects (for example Arse and Girls now also decrease piety somewhat at higher levels)
- Made the Disciplinarian line of traits more available via construction of certain buildings
- Reduced the amount of loyalty gained/lost from Content/DiscontentGeneral from 1/3/5 to 1/2/3
- Added triggers for random_birth_turkey
- Changed the Jihad trait line for muslim nations slightly (for arriving at crusade region)
- Changed the way VictorVirtue is awarded (Now given when actually taking a city rather than after a siege battle with certain factors - siege battles are unreliable in that it can be siege sally too and sometimes it is not judged as siege if attacked by a reinforcing army, thus not giving points towards this trait)
All I can remember off the top of my head. Exact changes can be seen by comparing 1.29 and the soon to be released version using a comparison program. Note that you would need to compare all those files, and this is quite difficult to do for the bin files (as those are encrypted). So you can't easily discern the differences in trait/ancillary descriptors, but you can for actual trait/ancillary changes.
I've been trying to avoid saying this for a while now, but I am going to insist that this and all future KOTRfix updates be approved by a Charter Amendment. We originally approved this mod a long time ago under its first version. Since then you have been making changes to the game at will based on your own opinion of how it should be. This has an active effect on peoples' stats and will result in some of them changing, possibly giving or removing influence from existing players. That should not happen without an approving vote. I have no problems with using KOTRfix, but we all need to know exactly what is changing and agree on it.
Agreed. It was bugging me to see Jan's traits yo-yo up and down. I don't mind using it but I'd like to know what the changes are.Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
I can see your point regarding playerlist influence being affected and don't mind such a vote if there are several seconders.
I would however say that it should be an OOC vote and not modified by character influence, and can be done before the coming diet session.
As options, I would suggest:
- Use most current versions as they are released
- Use a certain version (this will lead to a second poll if it wins to specify)
- Stop using altogether (this could lead to a second poll to determine whether nothing is used or something else is used)
[edit]
The reason you are seeing updates every month or two is because the fix itself has gone public quite a while ago, and is no longer KOTR only. This also explains why there are changes to other factions, rather than HRE only. There are a few KOTR specific things of course, but I am aiming for it to be a generally usable fix (which also means it will be more balanced overall)
I would have to concur not having the expertise of FH and maybe not coming across the opportunity to gain or lose a trait and therefore not know the difference. I have no objections to fixes but I would like to know what is being changed and is the change for the better.
Appreciate the work you have been doing with the fixes FH. A vote would be the best option for future fixes.
I agree it should be an OOC vote. For the record, I think you have done a great job with KOTRfix, but I think as a matter of policy these things should be reviewed and approved before being added. I don't expect a lot (if any) debate will even be needed. Just list the specific changes and toss up an OOC poll. You do good work, so I cannot imagine it not passing.
No worries, Stuperman. I only considered it because Econ21 brought it up. If the idea is so universally despised I won'tpush the issue.
My own personal ambition right now for my character is remaining Count of Antwerp after the Cataclysm, and getting to fight some battles against he Danes and French.
Thank you for joining the fight for Recruitable Generals' rights! As spokesman fo the as of now single member club, We/I agree that dukeships and other high positions should be handed out for merit, at the descretion of the appointing official. We are not looking for handouts!
Is there somewhere I can see who hs recruitable generals, other than me and Deguerra? I might pm them.
Edit: I second the idea of voting for future fixes for the game. My vote will be for using the most recent one, of course.:beam:
I cannot say whether a change will be for the "better", as that is wholly subjective: i.e. is better
- Characters gain more good traits and lose all bad traits
- Characters gain more bad traits and lose good traits
- Things become more balanced, with chances of gaining both good and bad traits
- And of course: Bugs are being fixed vs Bugs are being exploited
In the initial release of the fix, I was focussed more on fixing bugs and making good traits more available while reducing bad traits drastically, although to a less extreme extent than Medifix.
In the later stages, this has turned mostly on focussing on eliminating any remaining bugs and testing whether some conditions might trigger in unexpected ways (TC knows more about this from past PMs where he asked me about changes). Example of that would be that generals not inside a settlement, but inside the region when a building was finished (and not necessarily by their faction) would gain traits associated with its completion.
In the most recent versions, it has become less HRE-centric and focussed on balancing traits for factions overall (so musim nations are no longer left alone but balanced as well to christian ones). Also, I have started toning down how quickly good traits are gained from early versions and played around with trait thresholds for traits, that now have more than 1 trigger, so they aren't gained too quickly. Similarly, some bad traits have become worse and their chances have been upped either not at all or by 1-2%, depending on various factors.
Of course the other main changes throughout were addition of new triggers for less used or unused traits, so you get to see them more and define your character better. The biggest addition was a huge section on marriage and childbirth triggers, so fathers (and mothers!) have a large impact on how their offspring develop.
WH, RK, DG, you, and Deguerra all have RBG's. There is a 6th unclaimed one as well that someone might take if their avatar dies or we get a new player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim
There is a list in the first post of the C&G reports.
Gah! The acronyms, the horrible acronyms!Quote:
Originally Posted by Privateerkev
I'll start trying to figure out who those people are right now. :2thumbsup:
There is also AG, OK, TC, WL, GH, SM, NN, and PK.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim
You will be quizzed...
:clown:
Sadly, I think I can identify most of that second list...
For the first one:
WH=Warmaster Horus
RK= Roadkill
DG= Dutch_guy
Sound right?
Except that noone actually uses SM or WL. Neither would anyone use E or e21 for that matter.
Btw, when someone first posted PK, I was confused, because it meant "Player Killer" up until then to me :grin2:
I use SM and I think I've used WL before.
Econ, Ig, gib, and mini-econ have yet to have their names butchered. Though they do get shortened.
(If I've left anyone out, I apologize...)
Oh wait! There is EF! :D
*edit*
and Cecil
Spot on. :2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim
:balloon2: