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Ansehelm:
I have no clue, the chancellor and steward told me that are was missing and gone, but apparently they lied and they knew really well what's going on. This is stupidity, Peter would never disobey an order I gave him. This is set up by the two who now rule the Reich.
Elberhard: Duke Ansehelm, I have never lied to this Diet and never will. The only stupidity on exhibition today is your state of denial.
Arnold:
So Elberhard, a question.
Do you have any idea what the Kaiser is up to?
We get a decree from the Kaiser, via you, that negotiations are going splendidly. Following that little gem of information, Bavaria has two provinces that every man AND his dog would assume be allocated to them, handed directly over to the Byzantines.
Given Bavarian forces bled and died for those lands under the banner of this Reich, I'm sure you can appreciate Duke Lothar's position on the matter.
Meanwhile we've...
sweeping his hand across the assembled nobles of the realm
...been told that the condition and terms of this deal would be communicated and that we would not be ignored.
I'd say you've just proved that was a total load of crap.
Taking another moment, the Duke picks up a number of papers from the Scribes desk, reads a few sentences and then turns on the Steward
So, are you being mislead yourself or not!!?
Elberhard: Duke Arnold, I know no more of the Kaiser's negotiations than the rest of the Diet. You heard from him last turn, but we have not heard more this turn. It seems the talks are going more slowly than we hoped. However, religious re-unification is a significant step that should ease the way to ultimate political unification.
The terms of the deal will be communicated to the Diet. As the Kaiser's communication to the Diet last turn made clear, the gifting of Naples and Palermo was not part of the deal but rather a confidence building measure. It is quite within the discretion of the Chancellor to gift Imperial provinces without asking the Diet for approval, as previous Chancellors have done on other occasions.
And no, I have no appreciation of Duke Lothar's position. The man himself abandoned the provinces to fend for themselves first - he cannot then complain when the Kaiser gifts them for the greater good. Or perhaps he would have preferred to leave them undefended to the tender mercy of our backstabbing rivals the Sicilians, who even now have landed an army on their former isle?
Matthias looks dour.
I fear Prinz Elberhard is in the unenviable position of executing and being the public face of policies whose origins he has little or no control over.
I do not share the Prinz's confidence in the Kaiser, or in this hare brained scheme of unification, but we are dragging down a glorified middle man, no offense mein Prinz, and not the prime mover.
Of course, since the Kaiser won't show his face in the Diet, we are left with little alternative but to aim our objections at his Steward. Personally, if I was the Prinz, I would be a bit miffed with our leader for hanging him out to dry.
Still we must remember that the Prinz is a proxy and temper our remarks.
Edit: Again, Prinz Elberhard, the force in Palermo was needed in Thessalonica. You may not appreaciate my brother's language, but if one HA is outside Bavaria, the other one must certainly be within our borders. And Palermo and Naples, as you just pointed out, were Imperial territories, not Bavarian.
(OOC: Yes, we can look at the save and locate Peter's army, but I think econ21's pronouncements as Gamemaster take precedent. So besides a rumor or two, we know nothing of Peter's exact whereabouts.)
Arnold:
My comments to the Prinz are tempered by the fact that I am fully aware that he is simply the messenger.
I'd say my track record here is more than enough for this to be understood.
And it's not the Chancellor's prerogative to assign provinces but the Kaiser as far as I am aware.
The reunification of the church is certainly a huge achievement and something that will be remembered for centuries to come.
What still escapes me is the Kaiser deciding that unification is something he wishes to pursue AND not even asking us if that is what we wish also.
May I ask, before or after the deal has been agreed to by the Kaiser and the Emperor?Quote:
Originally Posted by Elberhard
Elberhard: The Kaiser and the Emperor will agree a deal. It will then be presented to the Diet in an Emergency session for approval. If it passes with a 2/3 majority, we will reunify. If it fails, we will not.
Thank you for that clarification, mein Prinz.
If the reunification does not proceed, what would happen to our alliance? We are almost literally showering Byzantium with presents, and the Kaiser is most likely promising absurd things to them right at this very moment.
Will we let them keep Palermo and Naples, of which the giving was merely a way to sweeten them a bit?
Matthias harrumphs.
Not bloody likely are we getting them back. Unless we take them, and our current alliance, without the overly ambtious talk of unification, is too valuable to risk it.
Elberhard: As I said, Palermo and Naples were not part of a deal. They were a confidence building gesture. And they were gifted, not loaned.
Ansehelm:
Well Matthias, I've lost an army and they say it's somewhere south.
Maybe Peter is doing the good thing and is on his way to attack Naples, or better yet Constantinople.
Elberhard: Ansehelm, not even the Chancellor can declare war without a Diet authorisation, so I do not see how a Duke may - even if he is so unfortunate as to lose one of his armies.
Ansehelm:
And the Chancellor is allowed to gift cities without Edicts and go against Edicts which we approved of?
You're a hypocrite Elberhard, and you very well know it. Grow up, I did not fight myself all the way to Moscow and back to see this happen. Helmut did not die so that you can try to be worse than a Hummel.
Elberhard: Duke Ansehelm, there is nothing in the Charter that precludes Imperial settlements from being gifted without Edicts. I am not sure whether it is the Chancellor's perogative or the Kaiser's, but that point is irrelevant since Siegfried holds both posts.
Fredericus Erlach: While I understand that the Kaiser's hand is necessary at such delecate negotiations, surely he requires at least some assistance. Perhaps an Attache from Bavaria or Austria, the 2 houses that boarder the Byzantine empire.
Then perhaps we can be assured that the entire empire isn't given away he adds half under his breath.
I'm tired of people using the names of my dead family members for their own political purposes.
During the Diet, Count Matthias brought up my father to support his view that the Kaiser should step down as Chancellor. With all due respect my father's situation was completely different from Sir Dassel's. My father took up the reins of Chancellor when Kaiser Jobst resigned. He never called for the Kaiser to step down. He never tried to pass a law in an attempt to override the Kaiser's prerogative.
Duke Ansehelm brings up my brother's death in an attempt to insinuate that the Steward is somehow dishonoring my brother's sacrifice. I completely reject this notion and I reject the use of my brother's name for political purposes.
Its funny how the von Hamburgs are not mentioned much in the Diet except when someone thinks they can use our good name to further their own political agenda. As the eldest von Hamburg, I ask that everyone respect the dead and let their good names lie in peace.
On another subject, has anyone else noticed that Count Peter still retains his position as "heir to Franconia as Steward"? If something happens to Duke Ansehelm, Count Peter automatically becomes Steward of Franconia until someone marries the Kaiser's eldest daughter. I find this highly problematic since Count Peter seems to have mutinied. Has Duke Ansehelm forgotten to fire him for going AWOL or does he really endorse Count Peter's actions? If the Duke endorses Count Peter's actions, then how can he keep blaming the Kaiser and Steward for what is happening regarding the actions of the Franconian House Army?
*edit*
OOC: content that was here has been deleted because it is not in-game knowledge. I apologize for my slip-up. :/
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
OOC: I agree but its more than fair to have others bring up the issue IC. :yes:
Though your concern for the Franconian house is heartening, King Jan, Péter's current state leaves much room for doubt.
Since my appeal to the Diet, I have only heard vague rumours about an army marching through Austrian lands. I cannot possibly believe this is Péter. He has always been faithful to Ansehelm's commands, and he and I are to assume joint leadership of the Prussian army. I am sure that will happen soon, unless something disasterous has happened to Péter.
And if that is the case, the persons responsible should look to their walls for protection against the wrath of the Franconian house.
As I was about to head off east anyway to support Austria if they should require, I will see whether I can find out more about this rogue force south of Vienna by the next year or two.
Mien good prince, how exactly do you justify spending more than 3000 florins on a single unit of mercinaries, and then promptly lose them all in thier first battle. I'm no accountant but nearly two entire armys could have been raised for that same money, and given the financial strain of losing our most lucritive trade routes in the mediterianan (sp), would such spending be seen as wise?
Let us review what little we do know.
1.) Count Peter gets banned from here for what he said to the Empress.
2.) According to the Chancellor's report, Count Peter's army goes missing after the Diet session ends.
3.) According to Duke Arnold, there are reports of an unidentified army south of Vienna.
4.) Also according to Duke Arnold, two regiments of the Prague garrison go missing.
5.) Duke Ansehelm blames the Kaiser for Count Peter going missing and assures us all that one brother will die if the other dies.
6.) Duke Ansehelm then expresses his hope that Count Peter heads to Naples or Constantinople to attack the Byzantines.
7.) Through this all, Count Peter retains his position as "heir to be Steward of Franconia."
These are facts. Lets connect the dots with what we have. I believe Count Peter took an army and headed south for reasons unknown. We need to find out what his intentions are. And I wish that Duke Ansehelm will work with us instead of heaping blame on our Kaiser, Steward, and ally.
I think it would be a good idea if Hans investigates this matter while he is in the area. Hopefully, this will all turn out to be nothing. But I am no longer very hopeful of that.
Ansehelm:
You're not becoming heir of Franconia Jan, I know how much you want it.
Now don't be my little brothers lap dog. I know him, I've seen my little brother grow up, you hardly know him. If someone knows what he's talking about, it's me.
All his life Peter has done what he must for the sake of the Reich, he made sacrifises for it. That man would not let me down, hence why he was an army commander, I you were never even given a county. You have no friends here, apart from the Prinz, who's nothing more than a hypocrite.
My brother does not walk away with an army without telling me, he would never abandon his post, unless he is forced to do so.
I hereby also declare that, with agreement of my cousins, Siegfried von Kastillien is no longer a member of the Castille family. A man who bans his own brother for nothing, who rather joins the enemy than us and who is the worst Kaiser and Chancellor (since Hummel) we've seen is not worth to be in this family.
Furthermore my new heir will be Dieter von Kassel, I'd rather have someone who's father prefered Russians, than someone who should know better.
Now excuse me, as I have better things to do, I intend to go to Thorn and fortify it. That way my former brother will not have his way with my city.
Jan breaks out laughing.
Heir to Franconia!?! No, I'm sorry, if I was offered such a thing, I would most certainly turn it down. I am quite happy in Outremer and will remain there for the rest of my days. In the past, I only wanted you to name a heir. I never intended to become one myself. And I fully approved of your choice of the Kaiser's daughter as heir. I just questioned your choice of "heir to be Steward" since Peter has seemed to go AWOL. Though now, I am pleased that Duke Ansehelm has seen fit to give the Ducal Crown to the von Hamburg family. Our family will serve Franconia well.
The lapdog insult seems to be lobbed around a lot lately. Almost as if a whole bunch of people are reading off of the same play-book. Disagreeing with you on politics does not automatically mean that I am following someone else's direction. I happen to agree with most of what the Kaiser does. And if I disagree, he will know. Its too bad that people have to resort to ad-hominum attacks when someone else expresses a view that differs from their own.
You say Peter would not walk off without telling you. So, are you saying he is doing all of this under your orders? That would be most disturbing. Or are you just reluctant to admit that you have seemed to lost your grip over your own house.
So, it seems you don't know people as well as you claim you do. You don't know the Kaiser. You don't know Peter. And you certainly don't know me.
What do you know?
I claim that you are either ignorant to Peter's actions or an accomplice. Which is it?
Ansehelm:
Peter is doing this all under my orders?
Don't be a $%#& idiot you ^&&$@.
I have nothing to say to an idiot like you, good morning.
Elberhard: Fredericus Erlach, congratulations on defeating the rebels and on your first victory. You did well, mate. I hope Duke Lothar knights you for it.
Now, seeing as you are new here, I'm going to let what you just said about me poor Arnolds pass.
But just for future reference, you know what I just said to you about your defeating the rebels? That's the sort of thing you are supposed to say in the Diet when someone wins a victory.
After Jan hears Ansehelm's reply,
Fair enough, ignorance it is...
Mien Prince, you are right and I owe you an apology. You do deserve a congradulations, for you dodge a question with great skill.
*On hearing Fredericus Erlach's response, Fritz goes red in the face and then begins laughing uncontrollably. He leaves the hall to compose himself*