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The fact is just about any mafioso is going to claim detective when pressed. They might get believed, they might draw out the real detective, they might get a couple people lynched, they might confuse people with who they name innocent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kommodus
You have Reenk's behavior from Mafia IV to go on, he was much more of an abstainer that game.
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Originally Posted by Reenk Roink in GHMM
It is similar is it not?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanax Killer
Yeah. That seems kinda fishy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
Yes, I thought you'd look at that. You see, when I send in my investigations to GH, I usually notice his response depends on my PM. When I send him just a name of a villager, or a simple message, he gives me an "Innocent, sorry" response. When I give him reasoning behind my pick, he will usually send me a longer message. For example, in my PM about Csar, I wrote that I had a gut feeling he was guilty. His response was conditioned likewise. I wrote that Kagemusha had been a brilliant deceiver before, and GH's response was conditioned to that statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
He gave me two of those "Innocent, sorry" responses in Mafia IV, and one in this game.
I knew Sasaki would hysterically jump on it like usual, saying I wasn't a detective and just using my old PM's. However, he jumped on this, so technically, I was screwed either way. :shrug:
The fact is that Sasaki is like a rabid dog at times. He simply does not let up. The past 30 posts have been him zealously trying to make me get killed. He dismisses any evidence or argument I give immediately, because he has already made his mind up about me. In fact, any suspicious slip I may have is due to Sasaki. I now regret removing those screenshots because it is another excuse for him to accuse me. Doesn't it seem weird to you that he is even more certain than Kommodus about my guilt?
I tell you this... I know I am going to die soon, so I will try and help in any way possible before I do. I already said that I accept my fate. I have given you 4 innocents not to lynch: Kage, DoH, Csar, and Sig. You can beat the mafia knowing this. A detective confirming innocents is almost as valuable as a detective flushing out Mafia.
But Sasaki will not stop with me. Another one of you will soon become his target, and he will hysterically post against you. Look at his most recent evidence against me, "similar is is not?". For God's sake, that can be done to anyone.
Frankly, Sasaki is the most dangerous threat to the villagers. He ruthlessly makes cases against innocents, starts bandwagons, and makes the weaker argument, stronger.
The Mafia actually did a great job by killing him. He is now immune to any accusations we throw against him, and immune to our suspicion, but he continues to sow discord.
I have already said, lynch me if you must. It is the best way to go. Best case scenario, you kill a Mafia and have more certainty than usual, worst case scenario, you kill a detective that has already helped you with his information.
You will have 9 with the kills, and then 8 without me. But 2 lynches is enough, knowing what you know. Good luck! :bow:
Having a little number trouble are we? 11 after the kills and I certainly haven't been attacking you for 30 posts.
Your argument is weak. You thought I would jump all over you because some of GH's responses were the same so you removed the screens? You were assuming then that I would look at them. How did you not realize removing them would make you more suspicious? Also, it isn't like others haven't posted the results of GH's pm's you know.
I don't suppose you'd mind posting those screenshots now would you?
Oops, did Sasaki catch me on hyperbole? He must be rubbing off on me... :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
Everyone I give seems to be... :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
Yes, look at your latest response comparing my hobo to the Wanax. Frankly, you'd jump at anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
By the way, I was right about you going into old threads wasn't I? I tell you what, I didn't read your mind. I know how you are...
You're a mod, can you undo my edits?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
No, I don’t have the PM’s from a long finished game 1.5 months back anymore.
I would like nothing more than to post my current screenshots of PM’s though, to silence you once and for all...
Can't undo edits. It's very conveniant that you don't have the pm's anymore. Perhaps you could grace us with a screenshot of your overflowing pm inbox then?
Imageshack also stores the images for you if you have an account.
Why would he keep PM's from a game that is over Sasaki? Now your just going on and on about nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
I think GH said you can't post screen shots.
Yes, it is convenient for me that I delete PM's from 45 days ago about a game that is over, and no, I do not have a imageshack account either. Is that too convenient for you too?
Here's my PM box by the way:
https://img81.imageshack.us/img81/7394/1gz6.jpg
Honestly Sasaki, should I just send in a commit suicide PM?
I will do so if you say yes.
I still haven't completely sorted our the Kagemusha reveal in the other thread...and now this!:dizzy2:
Reenk:
Kommo is supposed to have some kind of super track record on this. I haven't seen his methodology but....
Sasaki:
You do attack almost every reveal -- except for Kag's in the other thread, I think you've hammered them all.
Hmmmmm...
I know. It is completely understandable for you to vote for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
I never bothered to delete pm's until it got full. I don't think 24 is full, is it?
I just realized you can't post a screenshot of your pm list because GH has a rule against mafia revealing themselves.
I don't know why you object to a pursuit of the truth. Accepting something on face value is foolish, and you haven't been acting like a detective.
And practically won the game for the village in GF2.Quote:
The fact is that Sasaki is like a rabid dog at times. He simply does not let up. The past 30 posts have been him zealously trying to make me get killed.
Crazed Rabbit
Remember I've falsely claimed detective twice ~D if you go purely statistically Reenks claim only has a 50% chance of being genuine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
Kag would have no reason at all to claim if he was mafia, that's the difference.
It's interesting who is going after me the most. Both of them actually voted for me before the game started... :rolleyes:
Sasaki: PM capacity for normal members is 40.
And btw, I am putting a ban on all screenshots. At least until the game ends. That one that Reenk posted can stay, however.
Guys... I'm going to make a recommendation here.
Do not lynch Reenk Roink yet.
He may be the detective. His story actually looks legit to me, Sasaki's arguments notwithstanding. However, this doesn't make him innocent. I will not let him fall off the radar screen; if I still think he's guilty later on I will remind you. For now, I say let him live and pursue other avenues.
My method has fingered other possible suspects. When I know more, I'll let you know.
Interesting that you've stopped responding to arguments, I wondered when the web of lies would unravel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reenk Roink
40 eh? How about that.
I'd be more inclined to believe you if you weren't already on my shortlist for reasons mentioned before you're reveal. Since we can't trust you lynching is the best choice--it's also a good meta-game practice.
I'm sorry I can't keep up with you copious posting. It bores me by now Sasaki... :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
Anyway as to this "Since we can't trust you lynching is the best choice--it's also a good meta-game practice" I agree... haven't you seen my posts?
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I know. It is completely understandable for you to vote for me.
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I have already said, lynch me if you must. It is the best way to go. Best case scenario, you kill a Mafia and have more certainty than usual, worst case scenario, you kill a detective that has already helped you with his information.
Fact is, with my info, villagers can go for the win...Quote:
That's why I tell the villagers to lynch me now, or believe me fully. Don't get wishy-washy.
Oh, but you expected the lynch going in. You realized the jig was up and just wanted to mess with the town and maybe cause a detective to reveal himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reenk Roink
It was obvious from your initial post that you didn't expect to be believed. If you were the detective then lynching you would be a terrible choice.
I'd be inclined to agree, were his edit of a prior thread not so damning. It'd be alot less suspicious without that. OTOH, it might have been even more damning had Sasaki found that Reenk's supposedly new investigation results were verbatim copy and pastes from an older game. Hmmm...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kommodus
It's completely reasonable to assume that GH might use the same two-word investigation response multiple times. The phrase "innocent, sorry" occuring verbatim more than once means nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiahou
Here's what does mean something, IMO:
1. Reenk's alteration of an old post from a former game looks like an attempt to conceal something. Reenk, if you're innocent, you should remember this in the future: the truth will set you free. Let the whole truth be known and count on reason to interpret it correctly. It may not always work, but it's the best shot anyone has.
2. Since Reenk was the detective in an earlier game, he would know how to forge a reveal if he wanted to. Revealing one's self as the detective when in danger is, of course, always somewhat suspicious. It's been done both falsely (Sasaki in Mafia II and Cosa Nuova and GH in Godfather II) and honestly (Tiberius in Mafia II).
Guys, I know it doesn't really look good for Reenk. My method identified him as having a special role but couldn't distiguish what role that is.
All I'm asking for is one more round.
By my count the villagers probably have about four more rounds to get the mafia. Let Reenk get in one more "investigation" - it'll give us more information no matter what the truth ends up being.
One more round, guys. That's it. You won't lose the game by giving 'im one more chance.
I'm not sure that's wise. If he investigates and gets a guilty result what then? So maybe he was right and we lynch that person. Then next round, waddayaknow, he get's another guilty result.
With 11 alive we lynch
With 8 alive we lynch
With 5 alive we lynch
game over. Only 3 left. Masy suiciding really hurt us.
Now, we aren't going to get any more or less sure about Reenk as time goes on. We WILL get a better idea of who the mafia/other mafioso is as the rounds progress by process of elimination. Mathematically it's advantageous to lynch him now. Look at it this way: say we discuss a lot and find person X suspicious and lynch him and then Reenk the next day. If we'd lynched Reenk first theres a good chance person X would have been killed that night.
The only reason to leave Reenk alive is if we KNOW we can trust his results and we just don't know that.
I'd suggest lynching Reenk next round and and not talking to much, not casting too much suspicion. If we make it clear we suspect certain people the mafia will leave them alive (this is why I've been kinda quite, the mafia have killed a couple people I was watching).
Don im waiting here. Or are you just trying to avoid attention and kill me next night?
Look, it seems easy to criticize what I did now, but frankly, if I had to do it again I would. I knew Sasaki would go back and try to dig up dirt on me to discredit me. Seeing how similiar some of my PM's of this game were to my last game PM's, I don't think it unreasonable to suspect Sasaki of trying to do this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kommodus
Yes, it is true that earlier detectives will have an easier time "faking" it, but frankly, I don't know how we are going to play the game if this is how it is going to be.
The fact is, thinking it unlikely (I'm sure some people do) that I could be a detective in Mafia IV and then Mafia V is a statistical fallacy.
One can't suspect someone just because they were a detective last time.
Now please listen here. Although I could have forged all my PM's, take a look at the inital PM GH gave me. It has explanations of the "realism" mode. My previous PM in IV did not have that, and though it is not conclusive, it should not be dimissed either.
Now, GH is delaying posting the kills due to me revealing and the realism mode (haven't you seen how sometimes kills are posted almost right after executions and sometimes they are delayed?).
After he posts the kills, we have 11. If you believe me, then 5 of those 11 are innocent (me + 4 innocents I named (Kage, DoH, Csar, Sig)).
Even if you don't believe me and lynch me, do not kill those 4 simply because I said they were innocent. You should definitely not jump to such a conclusion! They will help you in narrowing down the list, and making you last 3 lynches count...
Sorry, reall life has attacked again. That, and I'm having a very hard time keeping the 2 mafia games straight. I don't think I'll play in 2 again :dizzy2: (and if the mafia are looking for a willing victim, come & get me).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagemusha
You're basically making the argument that I warned everone about in GF2, that simply by not acting like an imbecile, I was going to come off as suspicious.
Yes, I'm paying more attention to people's actions. And yes, I do know more than a bit of scripture. But those 2 facts hardly confirm me as a mafioso. I appreciate your vote of confidence in my dilligence, but if anything, my poor showing in posting sort of contradicts that. Were I truly trying to be a masterful mafia, wouldn't I be jumping on every twist to spin it my own way?
I'm afraid I don't buy Reenk's defense. Sasaki has made some good points (did I just say that!?) and while I like Reenk, his answers haven't given me any warm fuzzies. I know voting for him will make me look further suspicious yet, but until he answers Sasaki on a few of the specific charges and doesn't make emotional appeals, I'm afraid I have to throw my hat in that corner. If he's not the 2nd mafia, I fully understand I'll be a prime candidate next round. No offense Reenk, I'm just not convinced. :shrug:
Vote: Reenk
Convinient explanation there Don,altough your vote for Reenk was pretty hasty since we start only voting, when the next day arrives on the kingdom of love and peace, the Frontroom.:smash:
Crapola... I finally make up my mind, then I go back and read Reenk's last post a little more closely, and saw what I had been looking for all along.
It all comes down to the list of innocents. 5. For 5 rounds. So either
A) Reenk didn't plan his detective role out the greatest and decided to reveal sooner than he needed to...
OR
B) He's using the detective role as cover. Now, Reenk's been around a while, and I think he knows claiming to be the detective after the landslide starts just makes you look all the guiltier, especially given his 0-5 record as detective (he can't even offer the town anything to go on).
Reenk's more rational than that. I've talked myself out of it.
unvote: Reenk.
Now, who do I go for if not Reenk.
I'm afraid I really don't have anything to go on. Sasaki going after Reenk? Well, that's just Sasaki being Sasaki.
Okay, time to look even more suspicious..
Vote: Abstain If this doesn't line me up for a lynch next round, nothing will. But frankly, for not keeping up better, I deserve it. :shame:
I know this terribly paranoid, but has anybody considered that Sasaki IS mafia and since they get two kills regardless of 1 or 2 of them, he came up with a Machiavellian plan of targeting himself, making himself an unimpeachable witness?
Why am I even agonizing like this? We're in a murder phase (night) not a voting phase (day) or do I have those 2 reversed? Anyway, my abstain vote is safe while I'm bungling around, trying to get caught up.... Any guesses as to who's going to get whacked tonight?