Out of character thread XVII

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Originally Posted by Zim

Drat, I was going to have Andreas joke about whether that was Absinthe Dieter spiked his coffee with. :clown:

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Beaten to the punch Zim...you've gotta be quick around here sometimes :balloon2:

ugh, this is tough fighting with TinCow. he's so smart! haha

Hey, you don't reach a decent rank in secret Kaiser killing organizations without being pretty sharp. :yes:

Parallel arguments in the Diet and Tavern threads, truly what an age we live in. :laugh4:

Though I must say the one in the tavern is juicier.

Oh man Zim, if you're in that organization you had better never let Fritz find out. I cannot imagine him not going rebel to get at that information.

:egypt:

This... is awesome.

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Originally Posted by Zim

Hey, you don't reach a decent rank in secret Kaiser killing organizations without being pretty sharp. :yes:

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*Ahem* Alleged rank in secret Kaiser killing organizations. I will remind you all that the only solid evidence of Lothar's involvement is in two stories that no one else can possibly have IC knowledge about.

Man, when was the last time we had a good Duke Fight?

Ah, if only Sigismund were alive. He'd be itching for a fight with Lothar, and doing so while coming to Peter's defense would just make things sweeter.

EDIT: Yes, another Duke to the fight! Quick, get in there AG! This has the makings of a Civil War! ...If having such a thing made any sense.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

*Ahem* Alleged rank in secret Kaiser killing organizations. I will remind you all that the only solid evidence of Lothar's involvement is in two stories that no one else can possibly have IC knowledge about.

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:beam: Well, this is the OOC thread so I believe evidence not available to my character is admissable.

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Originally Posted by Ramses II CP

Oh man Zim, if you're in that organization you had better never let Fritz find out. I cannot imagine him not going rebel to get at that information.

:egypt:

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Bah, if I was in such an organization Matthias would know, and my not being dead would mean he's in it as well. Since I'm sure Matthias could take Fritz, I have nothing to worry about.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

:clown:

P.S. Tincow, Lothars magic box of secret letters isn't helping the whole "not in a secret organization" argument. :clown:

:laugh4: Lets see how many people Duke Lothar can verbally best at one time.

We need to band together and chase him out of the tavern. OOC, I don't mind what thread you guys use to argue, but IC, I just want to drink my beer in peace!

You might bet on Matthias in the field, but would you bet against Fritz's sheer devious malevolence? Truly, what act would you say is beyond him?

I think Fritz might exterminate Rome himself to get to his brother's killer. :help:

:egypt:

OOC: (as the thread suggests :P)

What happened to him in-game? Has it been resolved what happened to him IC?

@econ21, Have you considered maybe making a new OOC thread when we reach 30 pages? 20 seems to disappear very fast.

Congratulations, the Tavern thread has made it into the history for the first time with the latest dust up. :2thumbsup:

I was tempted to link to it when everyone was chanting Matthias's name (:clown:) as if it was Rocky IV, but this seemed more worthy.

Oh man, if only Jan were still alive. I had some juicy IC information that he had been sitting on until the time was right. :yes:

A Jan/Lothar debate in the Tavern would be titanic. Jan still might not win since Lothar was pretty careful at avoiding anything that could link him to Siegfried's murder. But at the very least, Jan probably could make more of a dent than Peter or Athawolf could. :2thumbsup:

I knew I should have had Jan leave those letters in a will or something to be sent to another character. :shame:

(oh wait, I did... Oh well, it's up to those "in the know" to do something about it now...)

It is definitely a challenge to be playing a new avatar who doesn't "know" anything when the player knows quite a bit. :yes:

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Originally Posted by OverKnight

Congratulations, the Tavern thread has made it into the history for the first time with the latest dust up. :2thumbsup:

I was tempted to link to it when everyone was chanting Matthias's name (:clown:) as if it was Rocky IV, but this seemed more worthy.

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:laugh4: Woohoo!

I personally give extra credit to Godwinson for telling a Duke that he is disturbing the peace in a tavern in his own Duchy's capital.

Ramses II CP, I think we should have a dread-off between Fritz, Arnold, and Matthias. :clown:

Peter has very high dread as well. He has undergone a "face-turn" lately and tried to come off as a "nice" guy. But he has around 8 or so dread.

So all the Chivalrous avatars are either still kids or dead?

As far as I know Siegfried's death was a necessary function of the mechanics of the Cataclysm, which is to say it's an open question who killed him, he just had to die to make the story move the way the GMs wanted it to.

I wasn't there, but that's what I've read between the lines, so to speak. It's possible that a decision was made about who was actually responsible, but not let out to the general public, which is what makes Fritz so much fun to talk too. He's too loyal, to the Reich and to Lutheranism, to contemplate what must be obvious to us outside actors, which is that nothing significant happens in the game without a German behind it, OOC or IC.

Fritz not only has high loyalty, he has nervous of Outsiders and long held Lutheran antipathy to Byzantium, so IMHO it would be hard for him to reach the conclusion that someone within the Reich successfully pulled a 5th of November stunt. That doesn't mean you want to come confessing to me. I do not want spoilers to mess up Fritz's maybe confrontation (If the Danes don't get him with their descending Uber Stack he's too stupid to retreat from). :whip:

:egypt:

Elberhard and Karl Zirn are both high chivalry, but Zirn just went over 60 I think so he's on his last legs.

Fritz loses 3 dread from his noble in rule line of traits, otherwise he'd have 8 as well I think. He's the only one of the bunch to sack a German city though. Twice.

Don't cross him.

:egypt:

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Originally Posted by Ramses II CP

As far as I know Siegfried's death was a necessary function of the mechanics of the Cataclysm, which is to say it's an open question who killed him, he just had to die to make the story move the way the GMs wanted it to.

I wasn't there, but that's what I've read between the lines, so to speak. It's possible that a decision was made about who was actually responsible, but not let out to the general public, which is what makes Fritz so much fun to talk too. He's too loyal, to the Reich and to Lutheranism, to contemplate what must be obvious to us outside actors, which is that nothing significant happens in the game without a German behind it, OOC or IC.

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It was necessary to move the game forward, but there is someone responsible for it "in-game". And certain characters made assumptions right away as to who it was. Having played one of those characters, I will say there are coincidences that convinced a group of people to a certain someone's complicity but no actual proof that could be presented to the Diet.

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Originally Posted by Zim

So all the Chivalrous avatars are either still kids or dead?

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Elberhard and Karl Zirn are still around.

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Originally Posted by Ramses II CP

He's the only one of the bunch to sack a German city though. Twice.

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Lorenz sacked Budapest


but only once... :D

I think if you asked Matthias, he wouldn't say he was Dreadful, he's just being Pragmatic in a extremely nasty situation.

If he ransoms or let's prisoners go, he'll just have to fight them again. Even ransom money would just be spent on replacing troops he lost fighting the same men again. So, logic dictates that the prisoners be killed.

Basically the Levant has devolved into an Eastern Front scenario where no quarter is asked or given. Ironically, according to that metaphor, Outremer is Russia, retreating into the Interior to seek the aid of General Mountain and General Bridge rather than General Winter.

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Originally Posted by OverKnight

Basically the Levant has devolved into an Eastern Front scenario where no quarter is asked or given. Ironically, according to that metaphor, Outremer is Russia, retreating into the Interior to seek the aid of General Mountain and General Bridge rather than General Winter.

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Yet somehow Jan went his entire career with only releasing prisoners. :clown:

Of course that caused a bunch of little "Jan stacks" to be wandering around...

:laugh4:

So, a man on his deathbed and another one whose chivalry trait was replaced by 1 Authority. The Reich is indeed becoming a dreadful place. :clown:

OK, are we Russia in the Napoleonic wars or the Soviets in WW2? If the former we can at least claim to be the good guys. :clown:

I was thinking WWII, Uncle Joe. Keep in mind, it's a very loose metaphor.

Edit: Correct, PK, but things have changed just a tad in Outremer. Even Matthias, during the salad days, consistently ransomed. The only time he didn't, was at the battle outside Caesarea when letting the prisoners live would have strengthened the surviving remnants of the garrison. Since the Greeks had to be spoon fed into actually taking the damn place, I couldn't risk that.

Of course, If I knew then what I know now, I would have let the Greeks and Turks kill each other, killed whoever survived and then taken the Citadel for my own. Now that would have been Dreadful.

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Originally Posted by Zim

So, a man on his deathbed and another one whose chivalry trait was replaced by 1 Authority. The Reich is indeed becoming a dreadful place. :clown:

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Elberhard has his chivalry traits. It's his loyalty that switches over.

And the Reich seems to be crawling out of it's dread-hole. (boy that sounds dirty)

Chivalry and dread ebb and flow in this game. When one is in ascendence, players start switching over to the other.

Without really meaning to, we end up striking a kind of balance.

In general though, it is far easier to get dread in this game than chivalry. Plus, executing prisoners offers real concrete benefits on the battle front. Dread helps when attacking because you can rout easier. And chivalry has less use in this game since we usually don't sit our chivalrous avatar in settlements in order to grow them faster, like we do in SP games.

Basically, you only become chivalrous if you truly want to portray a chivalrous character. If you don't care, or want to be a moderate, you have 1-3 dread. This is because some executing and battledread is almost inevitable unless you take real steps to prevent it. And then if you want to join the "dread club", it is relatively easy to get 8 dread.

Whatever you say, Uncle Matt. :clown:

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Originally Posted by OverKnight

I was thinking WWII, Uncle Joe. Keep in mind, it's a very loose metaphor.

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:wall: Doh! I got them mixed up.

I should warn OK that with Noble in Battle and a loyalty trait adding 2 more chivalry, Andreas is likely to take a chivalrous approach to warfare. Hence, soeday there will be little Andreas stacks.

As long as Andreas is not the head general of the army he's in, he won't get dread points for Matthias' actions, will he?

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Originally Posted by Privateerkev

Elberhard has his chivalry traits. It's his loyalty that switches over.

And the Reich seems to be crawling out of it's dread-hole. (boy that sounds dirty)

Chivalry and dread ebb and flow in this game. When one is in ascendence, players start switching over to the other.

Without really meaning to, we end up striking a kind of balance.

In general though, it is far easier to get dread in this game than chivalry. Plus, executing prisoners offers real concrete benefits on the battle front. Dread helps when attacking because you can rout easier. And chivalry has less use in this game since we usually don't sit our chivalrous avatar in settlements in order to grow them faster, like we do in SP games.

Basically, you only become chivalrous if you truly want to portray a chivalrous character. If you don't care, or want to be a moderate, you have 1-3 dread. This is because some executing and battledread is almost inevitable unless you take real steps to prevent it. And then if you want to join the "dread club", it is relatively easy to get 8 dread.

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Originally Posted by Zim

I should warn OK that with Noble in Battle and a loyalty trait adding 2 more chivalry, Andreas is likely to take a chivalrous approach to warfare. Hence, someday there will be little Andreas stacks.

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If Matthias gives Andreas any, and I mean any trouble in that regard, OK would be good to remember a certain "army commander rights" speech he had his character give another character... :clown:

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Originally Posted by Zim

As long as Andreas is not the head general of the army he's in, he won't get dread points for Matthias' actions, will he?

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No.

FactionHeir would be able to give you a more complete answer, but Generals not commanding do not pick up dread or chiv over the actions of their superiors AFAIK.

As for Andreas releasing prisoners, well, I'm sure it will make for some good roleplaying.