Capo de Tutti Capi - II [Concluded]

Last game dons showed up as innocent.

Quote:

---

Tie Glen and I up in protection groups for the next few nights. That way we won't be able to do anything bad.

---

Ha! No one would know if you really did it unless the target was attacked.

You're just tying to buy time.

CR

Quote:

---

We have code words we try to work into our posts. Simple as that. There is more. It's all in RED.

---

So far you said that there are three of you, that glenn is one, that you are a vigilante type group, that you have a life saving ability, and that you can communicate with code words. If all of that was in red how are you allowed to tell us?

Quote:

---

On what grounds? You've got two lines.

---

Yes, two lines that are very informal when all of Seamus's role pm's are very formal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pannonian

Using Google-translate.
Kommo is director, heeft geen bescherming nodig...
Sigurd Fafnesbane is misschien ook een goeie optie. K zou het graag vandaag nog weten

---

"Kommodus is director. He doesn't need protection. Sigurd might be a good option. I'd like to make a decision today"

With the last sentence I was referring to the fact that nobody but me suggested someone to protect and I was getting annoyed at the indecisiveness of my companions.

At first, I suggested to protect Louis or Prole. Both did very well in Capo I and if they were town, they would be valuable enough to keep alive. TS immediately called it suspicous that I wanted to protect one of those, but didn't come up with a suggestion himself :shrug:

Afterwards I got contacted by Zorg who said he had information about pevergreen but he was afraid to get killed by one of pevergreens' squads.

When I suggested to protect Zorg, TS insisted on blackmailing Zorg, forcing him to share everything he had, including role pm. I politely asked Zorg if he wanted to share some info. He told me some things about pevergreen, but I wasn't willing to share it with TS. So, TS didn't want so protect Zorg.

Then I suggested Sigurd, who had proven to be an outstanding townie mastermind in past games.

And Sigurd it became. No objections from TS.

Voilà, my pm exchanges with TS in a nutshell.

What did Zorg say about pevergreen Andres? Is there anything that might be important to the case against/for him?

Originally I was a little in doubt over The Stranger's status, but now my judgement is more and more leaning in the "pro-mafia" direction. Something about his double posting and behind the scenes methods makes him sound like a fairly desperate and erratic mafioso, trying to find excuses to prevent his group from doing what he doesn't wish them to do and attempting to manipulate others into revealing valuable information. He's a very dodgy player to say the least, and possibly should be lynched when the next opportunity is available.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pannonian

Then let's wait for a couple of days then, to see what Drisos comes out as.
so we might as well do that until Drisos' post-mortem comes up and we can decide on whether or not to lynch Sigurd.

---

Drisos's post-mortem tells us nothing about sigurd. If he's guilty Sigurd could still be guilty, if he's innocent sigurd could be innocent.

Quote:

---

I suggest people take their votes off Glenn, and put it on pever instead as the next best candidate, and moreover one who doesn't have qute the same power role as those two claim. Also, any detectives reading this should investigate them both, and report to someone whom they trust.

---

I don't see how you think glenn/jimbob's claim is in anyway believable. Also, glenn seems like a don from the write up and would therefore appear innocent, and pevergreen is a claimed wise guy (I believe him) and so investigating him is pointless as well. The detectives can't actually trust anyone completely. So basically you are asking the detectives to make two pointless investigations and then reveal themselves. Not a fan of this.

Quote:

---

Unvote: Beefy
Vote: pevergreen


I've had my suspicions of pevergreen, from his unwieldy group of 13 to his attempted cultivating of me, to a recent PM asking me what he should do now as everyone has turned against him. It's almost as though he's trying to play on past connections to strike up some kind of partnership. Others may have their own views on him, but those are my interactions with him that I've found suspicious.

---

Pever is pretty much confirmed as "not mafia" with his claim of wise guy. He's not trustworthy sure, but certainly not lynchworthy. What do you mean by his attempt of "cultivating" you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andres

"Kommodus is director. He doesn't need protection. Sigurd might be a good option. I'd like to make a decision today"

With the last sentence I was referring to the fact that nobody but me suggested someone to protect and I was getting annoyed at the indecisiveness of my companions.

At first, I suggested to protect Louis or Prole. Both did very well in Capo I and if they were town, they would be valuable enough to keep alive. TS immediately called it suspicous that I wanted to protect one of those, but didn't come up with a suggestion himself :shrug:

Afterwards I got contacted by Zorg who said he had information about pevergreen but he was afraid to get killed by one of pevergreens' squads.

When I suggested to protect Zorg, TS insisted on blackmailing Zorg, forcing him to share everything he had, including role pm. I politely asked Zorg if he wanted to share some info. He told me some things about pevergreen, but I wasn't willing to share it with TS. So, TS didn't want so protect Zorg.

Then I suggested Sigurd, who had proven to be an outstanding townie mastermind in past games.

And Sigurd it became. No objections from TS.

Voilà, my pm exchanges with TS in a nutshell.

---

im not attacking you... im just saying that it is lied that i said protect sigurd.

i believe the claim of glenn and jimbob

My pm exchange with Zorg:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zorg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andres

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zorg

Hi Andres,

I contact you, to be blunt, because of your suspicion of Pever. I find myself in what I feel to be a bad position, incredibly early. I am currently without group, and feel I may have made a dangerous enemy. I believe Pever to be a dangerous threat to myself and, if his plans succeed, to almost all factions in the game.

I am contacting you with the hope that you can help me in exchange for what help I can give you and information I have regarding Pever.

I await your reply,

Zorg

---

Why would pever be a threat to you? Did you receive suspicious pm's of him? Or were you the one who forwarded him the w&f pm?

Andres.

---

My situation is one I believe I am in due to my own suspicion. I was approached with information about Pever which I believe to be true. The information essentially detailed that Pever has been recruiting on a large scale, and as the forum post states that he has his own protection group. It included some information about Woads protection group, but I didn't see that as relevant. In any case, I drew the conclusion that Pever is trying to form his own mafia group, under himself and generally try and make sure all forms of information go through him. I mentioned my suspicion to Beefy who I thought I could trust. I have since learnt that Beefy was one of the original receivers of w&fs pm and I believe he was the one who forwarded it.

If this was the case, then Pever will now know my understanding of his position. If I'm right, then I'm in danger.

Is there any way you can help me?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zorg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andres

First of all, some general advice, since I believe you are rather new in mafia games: be careful with who you trust :bow:

And off course, no matter what side you're on: good luck :2thumbsup:

As for your latest pm.

I am in contact with a few townies. Their role claims all look genuine. We can protect you this night if necessary. Obviously, I'm not going to tell you who my fellow townies are, since I don't know if you are to be trusted.

I still have some questions: 1) who approached you with information about pever? 2) what information exactly (can you be a bit more specific) and how did this person acquire said information? 3) Is Beefy in pever's group or with w&f? 4) you have any clues about the roles of Beefy, pever and w&f? 5) Are you a townie?

A.

---

I "think" that I might have overreacted originaly when panicing and asking for your help. The paranoia is getting to me. Nevertheless I am still suspicious of Pevergreen, to answer your questions:

1. I'm afraid for my contact(s)'s own security I don't feel obliged to share that information.

2. The information was detailing some of the information about what apears to be the feud between w&f and pever. Pever has since released the bulk of this information in the thread. I also received a rumour (fairly vauge) that Pevergreen was working with Pannonian and that they intended to set up a new townie mafia.

This information was what caused me to suspect pever.

3. Beefy by his own word has his own "network", but I have also heard word that he is part of Pevers group. He was also INVITED to woad's group, but to my knowlage declined the offer.

4. I have no idea about beefy or woads, but I suspect Pever to be a rouge Wise Guy.

5. I am innocent and working for the town. My specific role I am not willing to divulge.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Last game dons showed up as innocent.

Ha! No one would know if you really did it unless the target was attacked.

You're just tying to buy time.

CR

---

Someone said earlier that the PMed results of an unsuccessful protection said that the group wasn't acting in parallel, so this could be used to detect non-compliant night actions. Also, the point about jimbob and Glenn speaking up for each other is that, if they were a Mafia family, only one of them can be a Don, while the other would be a Made of some sort. I'm not sure how the rules went last time, but weren't Mades unable to perform townie duties?

At the very least, locking them both in protection groups will prevent them from scum activity indefinitely, until we've run out of other suspects. Since we've got one definite suspect pending Drisos' report (Sigurd), we might as well mark time until then. I've not seen pevergreen offer any kind of satisfactory defence to the various suspicions of him, with the most favourable assessment being that he's a Wise Guy looking for approval from a Mafia family, so he's a low-risk, low-cost target for lynching while we wait for further information.

Tally is incorrect.

I switched my vote to TS some time ago.

I think this is more detailed :sweatdrop:

22 Glenn (kamikhaan,xehh2,Ichigo,Sigurd,Sasaki,Big King Sanctaphrax,Kagemusha,husar, beefy, elite ferret, glenn, Hannibalbarc,pevergreen,Lt. Pinard,Brave Sir Robin,Xiahou,Joe Monks, Kukri, Count Arach,Crazed Rabbit,Tiberius, twiligtblade)
9 pevergreen (tincow,LittleGrizzly, zorg, sarathos, charge, pann, stranger, mak, JimBob)
6 The Stranger (Craterus, True Praetorian,scottishranger,Rythmic, Myrddraal, GH)
3 Sigurd (prole, andres, woad)
1 Beefy (shlin)
1 molonthegreat (Tran)
1 GH (Omanes)

9 abstain (norwegian nerd, NN, cowhead, AtPG, johnhught., moros, chimpyang, haudegen, ironside)

seems ok?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Drisos's post-mortem tells us nothing about sigurd. If he's guilty Sigurd could still be guilty, if he's innocent sigurd could be innocent.

---

He made a definite claim as detective. The post mortem reveals, not just innocence or guilt, but the role. He also made a definite claim that Sigurd is a Don. I don't know how he got the info, but if he's stuck his (deceased) neck out for this, it should be worth testing his other claim. Sure, we might end up lynching a townie, but if Drisos is correct, we might end up lynching a Don. As I've said, I have my doubts about his claim, simply because it's technically not allowable, but that's a scenario we should bear in mind.

Quote:

---

I don't see how you think glenn/jimbob's claim is in anyway believable. Also, glenn seems like a don from the write up and would therefore appear innocent, and pevergreen is a claimed wise guy (I believe him) and so investigating him is pointless as well. The detectives can't actually trust anyone completely. So basically you are asking the detectives to make two pointless investigations and then reveal themselves. Not a fan of this.

---

I never asked the detectives to publicly reveal themselves, only to someone whom they trusted. Detectives who trust no-one with their information are practically useless anyway, as they're effectively meat waiting for their turn. If either of them turn up as criminal, that will blow their story and we can lynch them both.

Quote:

---

Pever is pretty much confirmed as "not mafia" with his claim of wise guy. He's not trustworthy sure, but certainly not lynchworthy. What do you mean by his attempt of "cultivating" you?

---

Trying to strike up links, talking in a suspiciously friendly manner about past games, etc. This might sound innocuous enough as described, but something triggered my scumometer.

If their claim is correct, then we lose a lot by lynching Glenn. If their claim is flase, we can still do something useful in the meanwhile by lynching pevergreen, while checking out their story and also insuring against losses by putting them both in protection groups. If they're what they claim to be, then we have something to gain by this latter course. If they're not what they claim to be, then we can still lynch them with but a little delay, and we won't have lost anything. Think about it, if Glenn and jimbob are part of a family, at least one of them will show up as criminal, and we can lynch them both then (with a double lynching if possible).

Host's Tally

Glenn = 23 (Beefy17, Big King Sanctaphrax, Brave Sir Robin, CountArach, Crazed Rabbit, Elite Ferret, Glenn, Hannibalbarc, Husar, Ichigo, Joe Monks, Kagemusha, Kamikhaan, Kukrikhan, Lt. Pinard, Moros, pevergreen, Sasaki Kojiro, Sigurd Fafnesbane, Tiberius of the Drake, Twilightblade, Xehh II, & Xiahou)

Abstain = 11 (Alexander the Pretty Good, Charge, Chimpyang, Cowhead418, Haudegan, Ironside, JimBob, johnhughthom, norwegian nerd, Northnovas, Xdeathfire)

Pevergreen = 7 (LittleGrizzly, Makayane, Pannonian, Sarathos, The Stranger, TinCow, Zorg)

The Stranger = 6 (Craterus, GeneralHankerchief, Myrddraal, Rythmic, scottishranger, TruePraetorian)

Sigurd Fafnesbane = 3 (Andres, Proletariat, woad&fangs)

Singles = 3 [GeneralHankerchief (Omanes Alexandrapolites), Beefy187 (Shlin28), molonthegreat (Tran)].

Not Voting = 25 (ajaxfetish, Caeser the III, Caius, Draco Leman, Dutch_guy, Evil_Maniac from Mars, FactionHeir, Fahad I, gibsonsg91921, Hiji, Jubal_Barca, Killfr3nzy, Kommodus {not allowed}, Leet Erikson, Lord Winter, Louis VI the Fat, molonthegreat, Motep, Roadkill, Rob_the_Celt, sapi, taka, Warluster, Warmaster Horus, x-dANGEr)

Dead = 1 (Drisos)

Notify if corrections are required. Deadline is 2300 EST

Quote:

---

And how on earth is that wasted vote going to help your mate Glenn? Is this another part of your red text, that you must vote in order to get rid of each other? You're willing to speak up for each other, but you're not willing to vote for his nearest rival. Weird.

---

I was hoping reason would break out and I wouldn't have to sacrafice some two-bit wiseguy. Unfortunately it seems the mafia's dogs are angry today.
Sorry Pever, for the common good and all
unvote:No Lynch
Vote:Pevergreen

Quote:

---

Last game dons showed up as innocent.

---

There's two of us, if neither or both of us show up as innocent then obviously you've not found what you're looking for.

Quote:

---

So far you said that there are three of you, that glenn is one, that you are a vigilante type group, that you have a life saving ability, and that you can communicate with code words. If all of that was in red how are you allowed to tell us?

---

It's a very vague description. The only details are the number and Glenn's identity (which I need to tell you. The nature of the vigilante group you don't know. There are a number of rules concerning how we can act at night, we have very strange win conditions, and you don't know the code or what it means. This is all a vague summary, if it is in violation, I apologize. I hoped I'd be able to give these small little tidbits.


VOTE TALLY
22 Glenn (kamikhaan,xehh2,Ichigo,Sigurd,Sasaki,Big King Sanctaphrax,Kagemusha,husar, beefy, elite ferret, glenn Hannibalbarc,pevergreen,Lt. Pinard,Brave Sir Robin,Xiahou,Joe Monks, Kukri, Count Arach,Crazed Rabbit,Tiberius, twiligtblade)
9 pevergreen (tincow,LittleGrizzly, zorg, sarathos, charge, pann, stranger, mak, JimBob)
6 The Stranger (Craterus, True Praetorian,scottishranger,Rythmic, Myrddraal, GH)
3 Sigurd (prole, andres, woad)
1 Beefy (shlin)
1 molonthegreat (Tran)
1 GH (Omanes)

Glenn, unvote yourself, seriously.

And Sasaki, what kind of Don votes for themselves to be lynched?

err I voted pevergreen, and I think moros voted abstain

Quote:

---

what kind of Don votes for themselves to be lynched?

---

He already had 15-20 votes.

Glenn looks suspicious. With my mind, I think he may be guilty. But by sheer gut instinct, and from 'sniffing' the tone of his posts, he doesn't seem mafia at all.
And JimBob's story is simply so ridiculous that I am inclined to believe it. It is all way too innocent to be mafia.

I, for one, won't be jumping on the Glenn bandwagon. I want to find out more. Plus, he amuses me by speaking of Woad&Fangs in the plural.


Pevergreen I think is a liability. His acts are pro-town, his mind is lusting with power.

Vote: Pevergreen.

VOTE TALLY
22 Glenn (kamikhaan,xehh2,Ichigo,Sigurd,Sasaki,Big King Sanctaphrax,Kagemusha,husar, beefy, elite ferret, glenn Hannibalbarc,pevergreen,Lt. Pinard,Brave Sir Robin,Xiahou,Joe Monks, Kukri, Count Arach,Crazed Rabbit,Tiberius, twiligtblade)
10 pevergreen (Louis Vi the Fat, tincow,LittleGrizzly, zorg, sarathos, charge, pann, stranger, mak, JimBob)
6 The Stranger (Craterus, True Praetorian,scottishranger,Rythmic, Myrddraal, GH)
3 Sigurd (prole, andres, woad)
1 Beefy (shlin)
1 molonthegreat (Tran)
1 GH (Omanes)

I'd like to point out that in Cosa Nuova II, Hughtower came up with an incredibly absurd role that Seamus used to 'reveal' with, whereupon he was some sort of voodoo doctor. Of course, Seamus was guilty as all hell, but the lie was so absurd that people, for a while, believed him. My point is, just because a story is very absurd or unusual doesn't exclude it from being true.

As for The Stranger, for anyone who hasn't played with him, he's not really that far off from his usual (and quite bizarre) posting style. I'm not quite inclined to lynch him on that basis.

I think next we should be lynching Pevergreen. I don't trust the fact that he's using the system to his own benefit, it seems far too power hungry for my likes.

I think we wait until we find out about Drisos' role from the Gendarmerie before lynching Sigurd . If innocent, Sigurd is an incredibly useful tool for the town.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shlin28

Anyway, it seems to me that with all these Glenn bashing, that everyone has forgot something that someone said about someone on post 13...

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...6&postcount=13
Another potential mafia perhaps?

---

Oops, nearly forgot to reply to this. Sasaki asked for an answer to it as well.

Err, I posted it, on page one, post 13, directly after the game began. Somebody sugested that 'We might as well give a new player the full Capo experience'. Which I promptly did. It's one of several posts I wrote to bid new players a warm welcome to the wonderful world of .org mafia.

It needs to be entirely disregarded. Sorry for that. Thanks for remembering it though, Shlin. That is a sign of a keen mind. Unlike mine then, forever given more to inserting only half-funny comments everywhere where people will put up with me.

Personally I think it would be a waste of a lynch to lynch pever, an absolute waste, if we know he's a wise guy we can keep an eye on him. He's not a priority lynch, if he gets bandwagoned next round it won't help the town, it'll only help a whole lot of Mafioso to go unnoticed for another round.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rythmic

Personally I think it would be a waste of a lynch to lynch pever, an absolute waste, if we know he's a wise guy we can keep an eye on him. He's not a priority lynch, if he gets bandwagoned next round it won't help the town, it'll only help a whole lot of Mafioso to go unnoticed for another round.

---

It's not a waste if we use the time to check out Glenn and jimbob's stories. They claim to have powerful pro-town roles, they vouch for each other. If they're not pro-town after all, then only one of them can check out as innocent when investigated. So we have a sure way of checking their stories. Given the potential gain, and the fact that we can minimise our losses regarding them, we should give them a couple of turns to prove their innocence, while we look for other candidates.

As townies significantly outnumber mafiosi, even if we lynch a townie by mistake, it would not be too harmful for the town's cause, as long as we generate enough discussion in the meantime for later scrutiny. Then look at pevergreen. At best, he's a wise guy who's looking to align himself with scum, according to most people's assessments. At worst, he's scum himself. Either way, he's no great loss, and his survival represents no great potential gain for the town, as few are prepared to trust him now anyway after his shenanigans last night.

Sacrifice pever now so we can check Glenn and jimbob's stories. We can always lynch those two afterwards if we find out they're lying. There's not much to lose by giving them a reprieve, while if they're telling the truth, there's something to gain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kamikhaan

I think next we should be lynching Pevergreen. I don't trust the fact that he's using the system to his own benefit, it seems far too power hungry for my likes.

---

Again, please note we can lynch two or more people at a time. If we gather enough votes, we can get kommodus or whoever the director is to lynch both of them.

Can people quote properly so their posts are easily readable? The tags follow standard html rules, closing with a slash-tag.

Unvote: Sigurd ; Vote: Pevergreen
I want a double lynch.

Well, the code words that Glenn and Jimbob are referring to are clearly: AXE, BLADE, and CROWN.

Why? I don't know. If somebody is really keen, they could check to see wether these words started appearing in their posts before the were accused. If they don't, then it might suggest they're making it up. If they do, then it might suggest they're telling the truth.

They've certainly sown the seed of doubt in my mind.

My opinion is that pevergreen is certainly not pro-town. Perhaps he's a wise-guy, as he claims, but if so, why did he choose to join the killing group and not the protection group. If he's not mafia already, it seems to me he had the intention of becoming one.


Also, part of my suspicion of The_Stranger was based on the fact that he chose the protection targets, and did not participate in the protection. It seems I was wrong on both counts, so I'm less suspicious of TS.

So because my doubt about the guilt of Glenn and Jimbob has increased, and my suspicion of TS has decreased, and because Pever is the only person who seems to be anywhere close to Glenn in vote count, I:

Unvote: The_Stranger, Vote: Pevergreen

I hope that made sense, I've had a drink or two...


EDIT: Changed oppinion to opinion, and bolded the code words.

vote: abstain

Too many arguments to follow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Well, the code words that Glenn and Jimbob are referring to are clearly: AXE, BLADE, and CROWN.

Why? I don't know. If somebody is really keen, they could check to see wether these words started appearing in their posts before the were accused. If they don't, then it might suggest they're making it up. If they do, then it might suggest they're telling the truth.

They've certainly sown the seed of doubt in my mind.

---

Mentions of words, if the search function is working fully.

Post #63

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Glenn

Aye, the seat of the director is a crown of thorns.

When you post here in this thread, it is like viewing a harbour, plain and vast - quite peaceful and welcoming - but home to a great amount of activity and secrets that go very deep beyond the surface.

A paranoid feeling.

---

Post #457

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jimbob

Can you people not see a bandwagon when it shows up? There are a lot of special roles that we know nothing about. Maybe Glenn has a special ability that gives him a better chance to survive. Maybe a doctor protected him. Why would that doctor come out? They'd only be a target for the mafia.

Let's not have the town go around doing the mob's work. When we kill people let's do it with firm knowledge. Let us not crown some Don king of Fatlington.

---

Post #488

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Glenn

I want to state my last words.

"I want everyone to know that I crusaded in the name of the axe, blade and crown of the Township authority.
I was a detective with a sword.
A sword so heavy it would require three men to lift.

---

Post #572

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jimbob

Glenn's having fun while waiting to be lynched. I can tell you you're doing the town no favor. By lynching him you will only help to crown the mafia. If you choose to lynch Glenn, wait for his post mortem to come back. Then lynch me if he is mafia. I will participate with town protection groups in the intervening nights to assure that I will not kill as a mafia member.


Let the axe fall not on the town but on the necks of the mafia. Let the blade rise up to strike them all down with fury. May they not be crowned lords of Fatlington.

---

Get those votes off Glenn and onto pever.

So many posts.... How can I read all this.... :no:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Myrddraal

Well, the code words that Glenn and Jimbob are referring to are clearly: AXE, BLADE, and CROWN.

Why? I don't know. If somebody is really keen, they could check to see wether these words started appearing in their posts before the were accused. If they don't, then it might suggest they're making it up. If they do, then it might suggest they're telling the truth.

---

I checked, the first use is post 488 after JimBob's pm's have been revealed.

If in doubt, vote pevergreen.