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Perhaps...but in this specific case, the standard could easily be used as a spear weapon. Besides, I think the shield would be apropriate to defend himself of incoming missiles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prometheus
BTW Prom , could you use Adherbal's face details he made for the Standard Bearer and put it in the SBCav's unit... No offence but those guys had some weird faces :P
No I already fixed that as I said befoure....
I can decrease polycount: The banner is 37 vertices, 62 faces. How is that compared the the boar standerd for the gauls ?
I dunno the Boar Vercingetorix did , the avarage high policount on faces is 400 I think we can reach even 500 for the high cas files but no more....
my model has:
453 vertices
734 faces
to compare, a greek hoplite has:
471 vertices
711 faces
doesn't seem to bad to me considering that banner takes a lot more polies then a simple hoplite spear :P
Those were what I had a problem with. I have no problem at all with normal metal cuirasses, just the muscled ones. The Muscled ones were the ones that were uncomfortable, and those are the ones I have problems with for the cavalry.Quote:
Yes, Greeks and Romans did use muscualr metal cuirasses, just like these:
Steppe Merc: The muscled cuirass was used with padding, it wasn't just strapped on. It's just a design on the armor, it wouldn't hurt. Perhaps the reason why the steppe horsemen didn't like it is that they forgot to put the padding in it. ~;)
HanBaal: I think prom is right, there should be a sword instead of the shield... No one would degrade a unit standard by using it as a weapon, not to mention how unbalanced and heavy the things are.
If we're dead set on the shield, a sign of tanit would be nice. We haven't had one of those yet, and it's in no way incorrect.
That's probably it, mainly because they would have stole it off of the dead Greeks. But there was a muscled cuirass found with a funerary thing or something, and the author of the book commented on how it was somewhat odd.
Thanks for explaining the whole thing to me, and sorry for objecting to it. I didn't quite realize exactly how they were used. Thanks. ~D
It looks good for an Alpha, yes. And the standard looks really good. But I have to tell you that the helm should be metal and have cheeck guards.Quote:
Originally Posted by [cF]Adherbal
I'm already doing the Iberian faction units and the Iberian units for Carthage. Consult the units list (sticky) at the restricted thread and focus on the Carthaginian units.Quote:
Originally Posted by [cF]Adherbal
Metal. Not specifically iron or bronze.Quote:
Originally Posted by eadingas
Did I said anything specific about Ptolemaic units? No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Urnamma
Isn't 300BC late enough? Those two Athenian Hoplites are from that era - 300BC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Urnamma
Then why isn't there any representation of hoplites with mail?Quote:
Originally Posted by Urnamma
As I said before I was only specific to Hypastistai and Athenian Hoplites (330BC).Quote:
Originally Posted by Urnamma
Re-read my post... :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Urnamma
then there won't be mounted banner carriers I guess :) not one that uses a spear as primary weapon anyway - a spear in one hand and a banner in the other would look rather stupid.Quote:
HanBaal: I think prom is right, there should be a sword instead of the shield... No one would degrade a unit standard by using it as a weapon, not to mention how unbalanced and heavy the things are.
Master HanBaal told me to create the punic citizen cavalry, so i'll start on that as soon as I finished those damn low LOD models for my Chivalry mod beta.
talking about low LOD models, are you guys working on those already ? We at Chivalry TW have ignored them for a while, creating only highest deatil models. And now we've end up - or better - I've end up creating them all at once, which is rather annoying - not to mension boring. Best way of working is to create a unit model + it's lower LOD versions before moving on to the next unit model.
Their should deffinetly be mounted flag carries... just give them a sword. Probably a bannerman would use a sword anyway.
I thought you said something about elite hellenic units in general.Quote:
Did I said anything specific about Ptolemaic units? No.
Are you sure? They have the wrong shield for 300 B.C. for one. They should also be wearing Attic style helmets with cheek guards, not a Phrygian cap, and his spear should be longer. There was an ongoing reform movement in Greek warfare. By about 250 B.C. most hoplites wore linen armor, had attic helmets, theuros shields, and longer spears. Armored hoplites were armored in either bronze cuirass (for the more anachronistic Greek states), or mail (for the more forward thinking ones).Quote:
Isn't 300BC late enough? Those two Athenian Hoplites are from that era - 300BC.
Good question, except that there are relief sculptures of hoplites from ~200 B.C. with mail armor on Rhodes, embedded in the walls of the castle at Lindos. This was a crusader fort, that used material from older structures on the island. It's really up to you. Athenians and Spartans might have still used the bronze armor, but Rhodians, Aetolians, and Corinthians probably used mail. It's your call, because both were used. Unless you want two types of armored hoplites...Quote:
Then why isn't there any representation of hoplites with mail?
Sorry, I misinterpreted. Remember though, Athens was under the control of Macedon for most of this period.Quote:
As I said before I was only specific to Hypastistai and Athenian Hoplites (330BC).
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Nah, they should have a sword for the banner carrier, not a spear. Sword in right hand, banner in left.Quote:
then there won't be mounted banner carriers I guess :) not one that uses a spear as primary weapon anyway - a spear in one hand and a banner in the other would look rather stupid.
You're doing the citizen cavalry? Check out the hidden forum's carthage unit descriptions. If you have any questions about their equipment, PM me.
I'll will write that you're working with that unit in the unit worklist.Quote:
Originally Posted by [cF]Adherbal
I'm doing all different mesh resolutions before going on another unit. Some other guys don't do like I'm doing, prefering to concentratre on high poly.Quote:
Originally Posted by [cF]Adherbal
Wouldn't that still look rather... strange? I mean, when you're riding a horse you need a free hand to hold on to, especially when the horse speeds up or down or turns quickly. I get this comic picture of the rider trying to balance himself in these 3 situations :grin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Urnamma
With the shield in his left arm, he would have his left hand to balance himself while riding since shields were usually strapped around the neck to leave the hand free and the arm with less weight.
OTOH if, as you suggest, he uses his left hand to carry the banner and his right hand to carry the sword....I get another comic picture: when the horse accelerates/brakes or suddenly turns the rider quickly uses his right hand (with a sword) to grab the horse and ":oops: I think I just stabbed my horse in the neck" :grin:
I said:Quote:
Originally Posted by Urnamma
That was a specific statement, although I understand that it could be taken as general, because I let the idea that other units, that I did not know of, could use it too. But I did not mentioned that ANY Elite Successor Kingdom unit would use it. And I didn't refered Ptolemaic units. It's more of a probability statement due to my lack of specific knowledge on the matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aymar de Bois Mauri
Yes. That is the date the Osprey book mentions. 300BC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Urnamma
That is not up to me to comment. Try mailing the author. He's the one claiming it... :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Urnamma
OK. I believe you. But in that book (I don't have it BTW) I clearly remember that there is no image of ANY mail-clad hoplite. The text might refer it though. As for if it is up to me, it isn't. It's up to all of us and specially to the Greek experts like you... ~:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Urnamma
No problem. But Macedonian control means what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Urnamma
@ [cF]HanBaal: You have to rember these guys were extremely well trained. The standard bearer espically would have been a very good rider out of the rest of the well trained horsemen. The steppe warriors could somehow juggle two or three bows, a sword, a spear and a lasso. Of course the more boring nations like Rome would never had been able to do this, but certaintaly the Carthagians, and the Successors wouldn't have needed reigns. Their spears used two hands to begin with. So it wouldn't have been a problem having a standard in one hand, and a sword with another. They would have had to use their legs to control the horse to begin with.
I hear you Steppe Merc, but when making sudden turns or suddenly stopping/accelerating I believe even the VERY skilled steppes/numidian horsemen would manage to get a free hand at least to balance themselves (by pressuring the horse's body/neck with that hand for balance, if no reigns were available, like in the case of the numidians). I know it was somewhat feasible but it would be EXTREMELY difficult and tiring controling permanently your balance and the horse's mobility with no hands in any situation. And I don't think the standard bearer needs to have a weapon at hand coz he wasn't destined to fight, or even to be in the 'fighting zone', in order to always be alive and thus inspire till the very end his troops by waiving the nations' banner.
Here's my idea:
http://img45.exs.cx/img45/6716/Liby-...SacredBand.jpg
it might be possible to create a skeleton without attack animation. This might disable the ability for banner carriers to fight (removing the horses' jump animation stopped them from jumping over pikes, or atleast that's what I heard). Then that could be used for the mounted banner carriers.
Aymar, the plate you're showing is the last one of the Ancient Greek osprey book. As you said, the scene takes place between 330BC-300BC.
There's no other plate in this book from a later era, though there is a paragraph about "The end of the Athenian army", which deals with the reforms in athenian military organisation, and the battle fought by athene and the aetolians against the galatians in 278BC, but unhappilly, there's nothing about their equipment.
Forgive my will to believe this , but I need a picture of it to be convinced ....Quote:
Originally Posted by Urnamma
Good question, except that there are relief sculptures of hoplites from ~200 B.C. with mail armor on Rhodes
Also about greeks using still iron cuirass I doubd as well probably linen was on the most.......
and 60 years of distance is a enough time difference to make shift fromone armour to another.....also later in the game may be advanced hoplites may come in mail shirts especially if greeks expand and get close to rome and celts as seen by romand adopting those armours .....
Thanks for confirming it. :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Meneldil
EDIT: This thread has been renamed Unit Screenshots because all other info regarding unit implementation has been moved to the restricted thread. As such, only screenshots will be posted here. Exchange of ideas, between EB members, about unit implementation and such will be discussed in the restricted thread. Other people can still suggest improvements or alterations in this thread or in other thread in the EB forum.
What? Dang, now I can't give my ideas. ~:mecry:
Yes, you can. I was refering to EB members. I'll edit the post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysseus
Aymar Ive found this site on armies http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_31b_figure_1.htm
this is a carthagenian army list i think its VERY helpful...
A small side note I hope that you preserve the roundness and reflection of the CA's skins, I didnt like the RTR skins because they were flat and paperlooking,Prometheus' skins LOOK FANTASTIC!!!
I hope that you preserve 100% historical accuracy as far as the LOOKS of the units is concerned because its has NOTHING to do with gameplay...
Hellenes
Thanks for the link, but we already use it quite often as a last resort reference. It contains some errors, so we prefer to use historical excerpts helped with some artistic renderings by Osprey and similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by hellenes
Yeah. I've seen them. Our work won't be like that, hopefully. Most of the current work by PROMETHEUS, reconspy, Vercingetorix, PSYCHO V, The Samnite and others, is very, very good.Quote:
Originally Posted by hellenes
Rest assured. The "coolness" factor will be a slave serving the accurate historical depictions.Quote:
Originally Posted by hellenes