Capo di Tutti Capi III [Concluded]

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Originally Posted by Seamus

high-paying immigrants from Communist East Europe to staff our casinos in Vegas and brothels

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Originally Posted by Psychonaut

From the prologue. Relates to CountArach and Yaropolk, no doubt.

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Good spot Psychonaut! This is the most compelling evidence that CA's role is pro-mafia.

Unvote, Vote:CA

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

The small problem with the investigation result you have on me is that is unclear. As everyone can see from the rules. Neither detective nor FBI detective get unclear results. So your trusted source can be nothing else then a made gangster. So please Askthepizzaguy would you be so kind and tell the rest of us the name of your source so he can join the line forming towards the gallows?. In which line yourself also should be joining as if you associate yourself with mafia. You cant be anything other then scum. You two man kill with GH just proves that even stronger.

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Nailed. Too many scum, too few lynches. Looks like ATPG is mafioso and the kill with GH was family-sanctioned. Thus, both are mafioso.

If we're going for a tie vote, I recommend the tie be between ATPG and GH. If ATPG is mafioso, we need to be wary about lynching CA without hearing his side of it. He could well be a pro-town role.

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Thank you for sharing us this Askthe pizzaguy. For my part i would like to here post the following lines from the rules of this game concerning characters:

The small problem with the investigation result you have on me is that is unclear. As everyone can see from the rules. Neither detective nor FBI detective get unclear results. So your trusted source can be nothing else then a made gangster. So please Askthepizzaguy would you be so kind and tell the rest of us the name of your source so he can join the line forming towards the gallows?. In which line yourself also should be joining as if you associate yourself with mafia. You cant be anything other then scum. You two man kill with GH just proves that even stronger.

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*sigh*

When you have all the roles at your disposal, your request would make more sense. But I applaud your healthy skepticism. :book:

Isn't it obvious?

There is a Cold War subtext to this year's Capo. I think that, instead of Capo2's Crusaders, we have a group of communist spies/sympathisers at work in the game. They may not necessarily be anti-town but there is a wealth of evidence to suggest their existence.

ATPG mentioned a lot of these things:
Cuba is mentioned in the prologue, obvious Communist affiliations.
CountArach introduces himself with a typically Soviet-associated name, would he have RP'd that if he had a normal role? I don't see it personally. Yaropolk also responds to this which could indicate that the members of this group are unknown to each other, as the Crusaders were, or perhaps his playing along made him an unnecessary target.
Mosin-Nagant rifle kill, a weapon commonly associated with Russia.
The use of French (l'Etranger), French being the favoured language of high society pre-Revolution Russia.
The kill of Yaropolk draws heavily on the murder of Georgi Markov - why has no-one pointed this out?

There may be more, check ATPG's original post against CountArach but there have been a lot (maybe too many) clues already to suggest that there is a Russian presence in this game and considering the era in which it is set, they're unlikely to be friendly. And CA has publicly identified himself as part of this group early on.

I imagine Seamus included this group to set off McCarthyistic levels of witch-hunting so let's not get distracted from the real bad guys but I just can't see this group as being a pro-town one so CA would be a better lynch than most. Unless he can prove the communist infiltrators are pro-town.

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

The small problem with the investigation result you have on me is that is unclear. As everyone can see from the rules. Neither detective nor FBI detective get unclear results. So your trusted source can be nothing else then a made gangster. So please Askthepizzaguy would you be so kind and tell the rest of us the name of your source so he can join the line forming towards the gallows?. In which line yourself also should be joining as if you associate yourself with mafia. You cant be anything other then scum. You two man kill with GH just proves that even stronger.

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There's a hole in your reasoning. If you look at the townie PM:

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2. Remember, however, that a significant minority (25%) of townspeople will register as “unclear” rather than innocent.

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Seamus suggests 25% of townies appear unclear whether they are investigated by a Detective, FBI, or Made.

So your argument is an instant flop. :juggle2:

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

Thank you for sharing us this Askthe pizzaguy. For my part i would like to here post the following lines from the rules of this game concerning characters:

Detective:

May investigate two persons per night phase. The investigation will list the individual as innocent (Townie, Don), criminal (Luca, Made not killing, Wise Guy not having killed at all, and some townies), or guilty (Luca or Made on the night of kill, Wise Guy or Townie who has killed – you either get the current kill or their whole track record as well). Acts as a Townie in other respects. Always reads as “innocent” if investigated.

FBI Detective:

May investigate two persons per night phase. Results, which parallel those of the regular detective but tend to be more accurate given the FBI’s greater resources, are delayed in comparison to a normal detective because of the need to interact with FBI bureaucracy. May not participate in any murders and always reads as “innocent” if investigated.

Made Gangster:

A Made is one of the two initial “Made” gangsters in a crime family. Their objective is to lead up the “wet-work” efforts on behalf of their crime family, eventually controlling the town. If investigated by a Detective or another Made, a Made gangster appears “criminal.” If investigated by a Detective during a “night” phase in which the made gangster is actively involved in a killing, they appear “guilty.” In addition, a Made gangster can conduct one “recruiting” investigation per “night” phase. This investigation will determine if the individual is “criminal,” “innocent,” or “unclear.” The initial made gangster of a family is automatically aware of the identity of the family Don.


The small problem with the investigation result you have on me is that is unclear. As everyone can see from the rules. Neither detective nor FBI detective get unclear results. So your trusted source can be nothing else then a made gangster. So please Askthepizzaguy would you be so kind and tell the rest of us the name of your source so he can join the line forming towards the gallows?. In which line yourself also should be joining as if you associate yourself with mafia. You cant be anything other then scum. You two man kill with GH just proves that even stronger.

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hyvä Kage! :2thumbsup:

I will just leave you guys with two things:

1) if you leave me with a tie, I will aim to please...
2) make a list of every suspect we have got here... in Capo it is way too easy to slip through. Prole and I were ratted out really early in Capo I, we went ahead and survived so long we didn't even get lynched :smash:

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

*sigh*

When you have all the roles at your disposal, your request would make more sense. But I applaud your healthy skepticism. :book:

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So you are seriously suggesting that while you conduct two man kill with GH and get results from people that point into a made gangster investigation. You should not be lynched because you have some information others do not know while you refuse to share it? Thats plenty enough for me to Vote: Askthepizzaguy

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Originally Posted by Psychonaut

There's a hole in your reasoning. If you look at the townie PM:


Seamus suggests 25% of townies appear unclear whether they are investigated by a Detective, FBI, or Made.

So your argument is an instant flop. :juggle2:

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There's that too, but I'm offering another alternative explanation. Work it out.

How 'bout you work it out for us.

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Originally Posted by Psychonaut

There's a hole in your reasoning. If you look at the townie PM:


Seamus suggests 25% of townies appear unclear whether they are investigated by a Detective, FBI, or Made.

So your argument is an instant flop. :juggle2:

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So Psychonaut dont tell me that you are scum also. Since i dont count as townie since i am a unaffliated wiseguy. So my result should be criminal if detective checks me.:whip:

Unvote: Vote: Ask the Pizza Guy

Think we should all switch votes to pizza guy.

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Originally Posted by Moros

But I'd want Andres reasoning for joining in with the idiocy organised by the_stranger & co.

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1) I didn't know about TS organising an attack on pever;
2) I didn't get a reply from you and Sasaki but short before the night would end; I already joined the protection group of pevergreen by then, like I told you , btw:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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Originally Posted by Moros

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Originally Posted by Andres

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Originally Posted by Moros

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

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Originally Posted by Andres

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

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Originally Posted by Andres

Hi Sasaki,


Would you like to join Moros and me in a protection group tonight?

Andres.

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Alright.

Sasaki

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Ok then.

El Diablo or Dutch_guy sound good? Or do you have somebody else in mind.

:bow:

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Let's protect dutch_guy.

Sasaki

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Check.

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Sorry, but I'm already in another group organised by TS to protect somebody else (I'll tell who when the night is over), so you'll need a different third party.

Point of interest that I picked up (in case I die and I hope at least one of you is townie and is able to use this info): woad&fangs is in a vig group, also organised by TS.

Andres.

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Gah! Err... Sasaki do you know someone willing to be the third protector?

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By the time I got Sasaki's reply on who to protect, we were close to deadline and I was already committed to another protection.

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Originally Posted by DisgruntledGoat

How 'bout you work it out for us.

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1, 2, 3

Detective, FBI,

@ Kage

Ah, its so easy to claim wiseguy isn't. GH claims it and we quickly poo-poo it since the role PM was already posted. Now you claim it as well. To me, its the ultimate cop out, the safe cover that no one can disprove right now and I'm not going to believe anyone that claims it publicly.

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

So Psychonaut dont tell me that you are scum also. Since i dont count as townie since i am a unaffliated wiseguy. So my result should be criminal if detective checks me.:whip:

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Haha. You should take it as a complement that I assumed you were a townie. :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

1, 2, 3

Detective, FBI,

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CIA. :idea2:

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Originally Posted by Craterus

Isn't it obvious?

There is a Cold War subtext to this year's Capo. I think that, instead of Capo2's Crusaders, we have a group of communist spies/sympathisers at work in the game. They may not necessarily be anti-town but there is a wealth of evidence to suggest their existence.

ATPG mentioned a lot of these things:
Cuba is mentioned in the prologue, obvious Communist affiliations.
CountArach introduces himself with a typically Soviet-associated name, would he have RP'd that if he had a normal role? I don't see it personally. Yaropolk also responds to this which could indicate that the members of this group are unknown to each other, as the Crusaders were, or perhaps his playing along made him an unnecessary target.
Mosin-Nagant rifle kill, a weapon commonly associated with Russia.
The use of French (l'Etranger), French being the favoured language of high society pre-Revolution Russia.
The kill of Yaropolk draws heavily on the murder of Georgi Markov - why has no-one pointed this out?

There may be more, check ATPG's original post against CountArach but there have been a lot (maybe too many) clues already to suggest that there is a Russian presence in this game and considering the era in which it is set, they're unlikely to be friendly. And CA has publicly identified himself as part of this group early on.

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You're onto something. If there is a communist element as Seamus suggests in the Prologue, he'd add a natural enemy for them...

The CIA! :idea2:

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Originally Posted by DisgruntledGoat

@ Kage

Ah, its so easy to claim wiseguy isn't. GH claims it and we quickly poo-poo it since the role PM was already posted. Now you claim it as well. To me, its the ultimate cop out, the safe cover that no one can disprove right now and I'm not going to believe anyone that claims it publicly.

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And exactly why would i claim to be wiseguy over a townie if i wasnt a wiseguy?

CIA, FBI, (KGB?), detective(s), Russian criminals, 5 mafia families, plenty of Wiseguys, some secret roles...

Am I the only townie?

Unvote: Sasaki Vote: CountArach

No sense not picking a side in a close race.

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

And exactly why would i claim to be wiseguy over a townie if i wasnt a wiseguy?

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Why would GH claim to be a wiseguy, to cover something up. Not saying you have done that, I just don't put any stock in the claim.

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Originally Posted by Andres

1) I didn't know about TS organising an attack on pever;
2) I didn't get a reply from you and Sasaki but short before the night would end; I already joined the protection group of pevergreen by then, like I told you , btw:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

By the time I got Sasaki's reply on who to protect, we were close to deadline and I was already committed to another protection.

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So you didn't know pever being the the target but you knew about a vigilante attack by TS... SO why trust him, if you know he's attacking people, but not who.

Okay who'd trust me if I'd say I'm gonna kill someone. But it's for the greater good. But you can't know who I'll be killing? If even I knew joining this was a bad idea, a smart guy like you should have.

So Askthepizzguy, please elaborate. It seems last you claimed your friend is a FBI detective. According to rules my investigation result should have been criminal for an FBI detective and it was unclear. Im afraid you are just diggin a deeper hole to yourself.

First you kill people in a two man kill, second you offer an investigation result that points to mafia investigation. Third you lie that your source is a FBI detective. If that does not warrant a lynch i dont know what does.

A russian with a gun? If there are commies in the game there's no way they're protown. CA needs to go. It's a shame we can't lynch him and GH both this round, I have a feeling if either gets away they'll weasel back underneath the radar while the mob finds some tangent to go off on the next round.

Vote: CountArach

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Originally Posted by Moros

So you didn't know pever being the the target but you knew about a vigilante attack by TS... SO why trust him, if you know he's attacking people, but not who.

Okay who'd trust me if I'd say I'm gonna kill someone. But it's for the greater good. But you can't know who I'll be killing? If even I knew joining this was a bad idea, a smart guy like you should have.

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Oh, come on now.

TS organises groups. One of those is a protection and I join it. That's scummy in your book?

Why trust TS? Meh, why trust anybody else? I can trust nobody, but there's no harm in protecting, is there?

I've joined a protection group N1 and N2 and I shared all information I got. Very scummy now, is it? You're barking upon the wrong tree, Moros.

And I'm waiting on a reply to my pm for what to do next night.

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Originally Posted by Reenk Roink

2) make a list of every suspect we have got here... in Capo it is way too easy to slip through. Prole and I were ratted out really early in Capo I, we went ahead and survived so long we didn't even get lynched :smash:

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A very good idea. Please, everyone, add on both names and short summaries of evidence to this list. I can't remember everything that has happened.

GeneralHankerchief - Suspect in failed protection of TS on Night 1. Killed Yaropolk in 2 man hit on Night 2.
ATPG - Killed Yaropolk in 2 man hit on Night 2. Claims contact with a 'secret role' that produces "unclear" investigation results on Kagemusha, who claims to be a wiseguy.
CountArach - Likely member of the 'Russian' group with the now-dead Yaropolk.
woad&fangs - Killed pevergreen on N2 with vig group.
Craterus - Killed pevergreen on N2 with vig group.
Ironside - Killed pevergreen on N2 with vig group.
Moros - ATPG claims investigation result showed him as criminal.
Centurion1 - Possibly killed pevergreen on N2 with vig group.
DJGingivitis - Possibly killed pevergreen on N2 with vig group.
Sasaki - Attempted to form mafia family.
scottishranger - Attempted to form mafia family.
Jolt - Involved in shenanigans regarding II/FH.
Andres, Beefy187, shlin28 - One of these three lied about sending in orders to protect pevergreen on N2.
AVSM - ATPG claims investigation result showed him as criminal.
Kommodus - Suspect in failed protection of TS on Night 1.
Kagemusa - Suspect in failed protection of TS on Night 1.

Updated as of post 702.

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Originally Posted by Proletariat

It's a shame we can't lynch him and GH both this round,

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Technically you can, it's been proposed that GH and CA both get the vote and Reenk lynches them both. I've objected to that idea because GH is assisting in taking down those Russians, and he's a known quantity, but you should be aware it is an option.

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

So Askthepizzguy, please elaborate. It seems last you claimed your friend is a FBI detective. According to rules my investigation result should have been criminal for an FBI detective and it was unclear. Im afraid you are just diggin a deeper hole to yourself.

First you kill people in a two man kill, second you offer an investigation result that points to mafia investigation. Third you lie that your source is a FBI detective. If that does not warrant a lynch i dont know what does.

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I'm afraid you're putting me in a position where I can only dig a deeper hole; there's not much I can do, my hands are tied. But here I am, freely admitting I cannot answer all your questions. I'm not hiding that. I'm offering the best explanation I can in a difficult situation.

I fully expect I warrant a lynch by now. You take out CountArach, and I'll gladly follow. I won't plead for my life. And then you will get the answers you seek.

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Originally Posted by Proletariat

A russian with a gun? If there are commies in the game there's no way they're protown. CA needs to go. It's a shame we can't lynch him and GH both this round, I have a feeling if either gets away they'll weasel back underneath the radar while the mob finds some tangent to go off on the next round.

Vote: CountArach

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Spoken like a true patriot ~;)

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Technically you can, it's been proposed that GH and CA both get the vote and Reenk lynches them both. I've objected to that idea because GH is assisting in taking down those Russians, and he's a known quantity, but you should be aware it is an option.

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Technically we could sure, but double lynches never, ever work in Capo so let's not fall for it in Capo3. One of the lynchees will always be here right before voting ends or a friend of theirs and then they break the tie right at the deadline.

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Originally Posted by Proletariat

Technically we could sure, but double lynches never, ever work in Capo so let's not fall for it in Capo3. One of the lynchees will always be here right before voting ends or a friend of theirs and then they break the tie right at the deadline.

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That uncovers more scum that way. And early in the game there is no harm in it IMO.

Joe

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Technically you can, it's been proposed that GH and CA both get the vote and Reenk lynches them both. I've objected to that idea because GH is assisting in taking down those Russians, and he's a known quantity, but you should be aware it is an option.



I'm afraid you're putting me in a position where I can only dig a deeper hole; there's not much I can do, my hands are tied. But here I am, freely admitting I cannot answer all your questions. I'm not hiding that. I'm offering the best explanation I can in a difficult situation.

I fully expect I warrant a lynch by now. You take out CountArach, and I'll gladly follow. I won't plead for my life. And then you will get the answers you seek.

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So should we think that you have somekind of victory condition to fulfill in lynching CA and wiping out the hypothetical Russian faction of Yaropolk and CA?

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Originally Posted by TinCow

A very good idea. Please, everyone, add on both names and short summaries of evidence to this list. I can't remember everything that has happened.
Moros - Possibly killed pevergreen on N2 with vig group. ATPG claims investigation result showed him as criminal.
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As Andres & Sasaki can confirm I was planning on protecting someone. I also send to DJGingivitis, gibsonsg91921, Jolt, The Stranger, that I was not going to participate in a vigilante group. They can confirm that as well.