OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

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Originally Posted by Rowan

AG, Thanks for the clarification. It makes me feel a lot better about all this. Being one of the newbie players I don't have the experience from the previous games to draw on and, frankly speaking, the tone of this game has been one of rules lawyering and OOC punishments :(

And in the same vein, I think we should have a separate mechanism for rule changes because character influence shouldn't play part in those votes. Luckily the changes this far have had a fairly universal acceptance so this hasn't been an issue.

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I think the special part of making OOC CAs was that people were supposed to vote on them OOC and there were no weighed votes, meaning everybody's vote counted the same for the purpose of these rule changing CAs.

I agree that there has been entirely too much focus on rules lawyering and OOC punishment. I am confident that this will get less and less the more comfortable we all get with the rules and in the meantime don't hesitate to ask, that's what this thread is for.

I see where the confusion is coming from on the enforcement of game rules and CAs. I don't have an easy solution to that except to say just try and trust me to handle it properly. I am going to do my best to keep all conflict resolution IC in every possible case. Any CA which is by nature an IC piece of legislation can almost certainly be resolved in an IC manner. If so, I will not be using any 'mod' powers to uphold the law and the players will have to use the various IC means to do it. I will simply use my judgment to determine what is IC and what is OOC on a case-by-case basis as problems arise.

In the particular situation of the CA being discussed, since it is fully IC I would not use 'mod' powers to enforce it. I reserve the right to do that for rule violations which threaten to 'break' the game, but I doubt there will be many IC CAs which would pose that problem.

Please note that the entire 'code of conduct' thing is in force in spirit only. I need to re-write a bunch of stuff, including that, due to the recent rule changes and discussions we have had. You don't need to creep around on tip-toes for fear of getting spanked by me for breaking a rule. Do your best to follow the rules and ask questions when you need to. All problems will be resolved IC if possible. If it's not possible, warnings will be given before any more extensive action will be taken. I sincerely believe it is likely that there will never be another case where I have to issue an OOC punishment for a rule violation.

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Originally Posted by AussieGiant

To TC when he gets on...where can we view all CA's that are in affect?

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All rules that have been modified by CAs have a notation after them in the rule set. It will say (Modified by CA X.Y) or something after the text.

Beg your pardon GH, but I believe you've calculated the influence wrong, as per Tincow's post here.

Off the top of my head, Ioannis's authority, and thus his influence, is three, Nevuolos is the Megas so his influence is 2, Methodios being the Caesar gives him stat influence for a total of 2, and Armatos got rid of some bad retinue/traits and now has an influence of 3. (Huzzah)

I actually kept my own tally, although I wasn't as thorough as I would have been if I had wanted to base the results off it. Still, to the best of my knowledge it's accurate for the above, the Comes and Strators, and Apionnas.

CA E3.1
For - Apionnas (1), Armatos (3), Klimis (1), Ioannis (3), Zigavinos (1), Andronikos (1): 10/20
Against - Theophylaktos (1), Aleksios(1), Tiverios(1), Nevoulos (2), Methodios (2): 7/10

CA E3.2
For - Apionnas (1), Armatos (3), Klimis (1), Ioannis (3), Aleksios (1), Zigavinos (1), Andronikos (1): 11/20
Against - Theophylaktos (1), Tiverios (1), Nevoulos (2), Methodios (2): 6/10

This ones a nailbiter all right. If Cecils figures are correct it means neither pass....

The senators all get their calculators out!!!

I forgot to vote :oops::furious3:

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Originally Posted by Cecil XIX

Beg your pardon GH, but I believe you've calculated the influence wrong, as per Tincow's post here.

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I think Cecil got the calculations right.

You also forget that woad& fangs and AussieGiant get +1 to their influence due to holding the Privy Seal and being Lord High Chancellor respectively.

Edit: And the traits that Ioannis has do add up to 4 authority, it's just that the stat bar only shows 3.

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Originally Posted by Ignoramus

You also forget that woad& fangs and AussieGiant get +1 to their influence due to holding the Privy Seal and being Lord High Chancellor respectively.

Edit: And the traits that Ioannis has do add up to 4 authority, it's just that the stat bar only shows 3.

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Yes, but was the transfer not in effect AFTER the session began? If so, then it doesn't count.

Here we go again :uhoh:

Plus the fact that the Privy Seal may not have been Ignoramus to give (per Aleksios' will)

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Originally Posted by Rowan

Here we go again :uhoh:

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You wish me to point out the legality of this IC? If so, then I will, although I can't see how I can bring it up...

IMO, He can move it around, but does not influence get calculated at the start of the session, TC said that it would be calculated off the latest save before this session was called, so I think W&F and AG do not get the +1.

Influence is calculated at the start of a session, not later. This is the specific reason why oaths cannot be sworn or broken during a Senate session: people need to be able to know what the influence is while debating and voting. If it can change right in the middle of voting, it is too chaotic. The proper influence is the influence that existed at the moment that the emergency session was called. Subsequent changes to influence only go into effect after the session is over.

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Originally Posted by YLC

You wish me to point out the legality of this IC? If so, then I will, although I can't see how I can bring it up...

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I'm sorry. I didn't mean to pick on you, just tried to express my frustration.

FWIW I think both Aleksios' will and Ioannis' grant of Privy Seal were perfectly legal.

Sorry guys, Monday is my bad day. I'll try to get to the influence issue later tonight, but from glancing over it I think I'm in the wrong.

Thanks for all your hard work GH. I promise after this residual emergency session mess is sorted out that you can ignore all future GM-type stuff.

As a brief heads-up to the everyone, I am still pretty busy in general. I've got a decent amount to catch up on at work due to my vacation and my wife and I are in the process of buying (and moving into) a new house. This means my free time will be reduced below its previous level for the next couple months. I do not really expect this to impact LotR in any way, but I just want to give some notice about it. If I seem to be shirking my duties or otherwise falling behind on necessary work, please do not hesitate to smack me over the head and tell me to get to work.

No problem, TC. Anytime you need me to help out, just ask.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

...please do not hesitate to smack me over the head...

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No problem! Always glad to help you with that! :viking:

:clown:

I have updated the Library a bit to try and take into account the changes while I was gone. Everyone, please take a moment to review the Table of Political Alliances and Houses and your avatar's bio post to make sure they are accurate. Specifically, I am looking for errors in rank, lord/vassals, and provinces. I think I've got the oaths right, but I suspect I've missed a few provinces that have shifted or been conquered while I was gone. Please help me double-check this. Note that influence has not been updated in that table.

Back from holiday, so Savvas is no longer an inactive avatar :bow:

The recent confusion about the OOC/IC CAs got me thinking. I think the current CA/Edict system is obsolete and can be reformed to improve the game. The current system is one of the few things that has remained fully intact since econ21 wrote it for the original WotS game. I think that the LotR game has now evolved to a level where this original system needs a bit of tweaking.

The basic problem is that the current CA/Edict system does not take into account the difference between the OOC rules and IC legislation. I think we need to split these two, specifically keeping IC changes entirely in the IC realm. I like the current IC enforcement system a great deal and I want to rely on it for all IC issues, even if they are violations of CAs. If a CA is by nature IC, I don't see any reason why its enforcement cannot also be dealt with IC. So, I propose a three tiered system for legislation.

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Edicts - Require a simple majority of influence to pass. Are in effect only for a single Megas term. Require IC enforcement. Cannot contradict the Game Rules.

Charter Amendments - Require a 2/3 majority of influence to pass. Are in effect permanently or until repealed by another CA. Require IC enforcement. Cannot contradict the Game Rules.

Rule Changes - Require a 2/3 majority of unweighted voting to pass (1 vote per player). TinCow can veto any proposal, but does not vote. Permanently changes the Game Rules. Can be enforced IC or OOC depending on the circumstances.

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The idea of this system would be essentially to keep the system as it is, but to elevate changes to the OOC mechanics to a higher level, keeping them separate from all IC issues. On a practical level, I would use my veto on Rule Changes to keep all IC issues confined to the CA level of legislation. This would include things like the two CAs proposed at the recent emergency session. I see no reason at all why these kinds of things cannot be enforced exclusively IC. Rule Changes with potential OOC enforcement issues need to be restricted entirely to fundamental game mechanics, not politically motivated legislation.

Thoughts?

I would very much be in favor of this. It provides the clear distinction that makes it easier to separate IC and OOC, although, I must ask, say we were to propose the "University" now? Which section would it fall under?

I would allow that as a Rule Change, since it requires console editing of traits which cannot really be controlled via IC enforcement.

I considered how to codify what is IC and what is OOC, but all possible solutions were very messy and prone to errors. The best option is simply to let me make that call on a case-by-case basis, which is easily and simply done with the veto power. I am growing increasingly inclined towards focusing a lot of vague determinations like this on my own judgment calls without further guidelines. We have been in the habit of legislating them in detail because in WotS and KotR the 'mod' (econ21) was also a player and thus had some conflict of interests. Since I am only running the game, not playing it, I see no reason why we can't break away from this trend and just leave the decisions up to me or whoever else I give the responsibility to. Yes, I am prone to error, but I think in the end that simplicity would be better for the game. This is another step towards fully embracing a 'GM' role for the game in the rules themselves. I now realize that omitting a dedicated GM role from the game was the biggest error I made when writing the original rule system. The game requires one, so we might as well use it in every situation where it can simplify the system.

So, to clarify a point, anything that might fall under direct game modding would thus be rules change? For instance, the intended unit balance update could either be passed off as simply a rules change, or could be played IC as military reform. Thus, can players to a degree decide or tip how something is to be interpreted?

Anything that requires a mod of the game would have to be a rule change. You can't enforce the use of a mod via IC methods. On a practical level, my decision would turn on whether a piece of legislation is motivated IC or OOC. If it is motivated by the player's avatar and is designed to result in political gains/changes within the IC world, I would probably veto it as a rule change, though I can't guarantee that in every case because it all depends on the specific circumstances. If legislation is motivated by a simple desire to improve the game for everyone or fix a flaw, that will generally be fine for a rule change vote even if it has IC implications. I don't really think the difference should be hard to determine, though. Without exception, every player here is highly intelligent and we know perfectly well when something is being done IC or OOC. Besides, there is always a way to get around a veto: convince me to change my mind.

Okay, thank you TC :bow:

I was thinking of roleplaying such things IC, but not a on a rule basis. For instance, like the suggestion above, I would role play it as a set of military reforms IC, and keeping it IC, once it passes as a rules change. Of course, that is murky waters, isn't it?

It all sounds particularly practical to me.

We should get that all sorted out as soon as possible.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Thoughts?

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Quite excellent! :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Andres

Back from holiday, so Savvas is no longer an inactive avatar :bow:

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Good to hear I was waiting. Welcome Back! :sneaky:

A very good idea. Tincow. I think the two keys to having this game running smoothly are to have as many issues handled IC as possible, and to make sure those issues that are handled OOC have little room for interpretation. This'll definitely help.

IMHO the dictatorship is the single most efficient small government form ever invented (If you have a good dictator). In other words, Hail TC! The three tier system seems fine to me as well, and really like a quite slight modification as long as we stick to our common sense. I have no problem letting someone simply draw the lines as they see them so long as that person can clearly describe those lines to the rest of us, and Tincow has proven he can do that IMHO.

In fact, I have only one significant problem with this system, and that's the fact that it denies the rest of us the chance to interact with Lothar's intellectual heir.

Vissa's bit on the table seemed accurate, FYI. :yes:

:egypt:

Ok, I'll write up a CA proposal for that legislation to be proposed and voted on at the next senate session. The current rank limitations on proposing Edicts and CAs will remain the same, but I'm going to let anyone propose unimited numbers of Rule Changes. There's no reason to place IC restrictions on those since they won't be IC by nature anyway.

I would also like to change the term from Charter Amendment to Codex Amendment. Charter Amendment simply doesn't make any sense at all. There is no Charter, either IC or OOC, so what in the world are we talking about when we say that? Codex is a latin term for book which is commonly used to describe a set of laws (i.e. Codex Justinianus), so it makes sense for Byzantium. Plus, it has the exact same acronym (CA) as the term we're used to using, so we can just keep calling things CAs without a problem.

It may also be a good idea to codify the role of GM in the actual rules, for the sake of clarity. Something like...

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1.7 - Game Master: TinCow will serve as Game Master and is responsible for management of the game and enforcement of the Game Rules. TinCow can delegate any of his powers to another person whenever he chooses.

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This doesn't really say anything or change anything, but it at least creates some kind of basis for my position and also makes it legal for me to put someone like GH in charge of the game for short periods when I can't be around. This is mainly just to make me more comfortable, since I've essentially assumed these powers over the course of the game when I've had no real legal basis to do so. We can call this the Dictator For Life legislation.

Great stuff! :2thumbsup:

This should help us overcome the whole IC/OOC insecurity this game has suffered from and pave the way to some relentless IC conflict without having to worry about OOC rule breaking all the time!

Have we worked out the CA voting situation yet?

I have not personally reviewed the influence, but no one has disagreed with Cecil's calculations of the various influences in this post. Since the various + to stat ancillaries were not distributed until after the emergency session started, their bonuses do not count. The same applies to rank changes as a result of oaths sworn by OK and GH to AG (if there was any influence change as a result of that).

The only suspect situation is Ignoramus' authority count of 3. He claims his traits give him a +4 to authority, but that his avatar only shows +3. This +1 difference is not enough to change the results on CA E3.1, so that one fails regardless. That said, the +1 would have made the difference for CA E3.2. However, M2TW calculates stats in various ways and has hidden traits as well, such as the base bonuses to loyalty and piety which are given via invisible traits. Unless someone can show me that the +3 being shown on Ignoramus' avatar is an actual bug, that stat will be used.

So, in summary, CA E3.1 fails, period. CA E3.2 fails, unless Ignoramus' missing authority is shown to be due to a bug instead of hidden game mechanics.

Great, thanks TC.

We'll get moving now I hope.

I have (finally) updated the rules with all of the CA 5.1 changes. Due to the extensive editing this required, I have not put my usual (Modified by CA X.X) notation on the changes, as that would have resulted in an absurd number of notations.

I have also included notes on the Megas and Exarch guides indicating that they are currently obsolete due to the 5.1 changes. I will update the guides eventually to take into account the changes, but that might take a week or two.

Also, the first part of the Code of Conduct has been changed from this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

1. Do not violate the LotR Game Rules. Edicts may be freely violated, but Rules may not. If a Rule is violated and another player protests this violation either publicly or by sending a PM to TinCow, a warning will be sent to the player who violated the Rule. A second Rule violation will result in punishment. The level of punishment will be determined by TinCow alone and will be designed to be proportionate to the harm of the rule that has been violated. Unintentional rule violations are still rule violations, though a lack of malice will be taken into account when issuing a punishment.
   
   Punishments can include, but are not limited to:
   • Temporary breaking of oaths and a ban on reswearing.
   • Temporary loss of all rights to a PA/RA.
   • Confiscation of Land.
   • Temporary suspension from LotR.
   • Permanent suspension from LotR.
   
   
   If you are unsure whether an action you want to take will violate a Rule, send a PM to TinCow or make a proper post in the Rule Interpretation thread (coming soon). Ignorance of the Rules is not an excuse, though it will be taken into account when determining a punishment. You will be given as much help as you need to understand how to play the game, but it is still your responsibility to know the Rules and to obey them. When in doubt, follow the spirit of the Rules and use them as they are intended to be used, even if there is a way to exploit the language to do otherwise.

to this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

1. Do not violate the LotR Game Rules. IC legislation may be freely violated (though it may result in IC consequences), but Game Rules may not. If at all possible, Game Rule violations will be handled exclusively IC. If IC handling is not possible, the punishment will be designed to rectify the error rather than to punish the perpetrator, unless the violation was intentional and malicious. Intentional and malicious violations can result in temporary or permanent suspension from the game. In all cases, the action to be taken will be determined by TinCow and will be designed to minimize the disruption to the game and maximize enjoyment.

Again, sorry for not being active either in an OOC (finishing up the Influence mess) or an IC (Making an SoT, initially moving my character) role. At the moment RL has gotten more fun/interesting so as a result I'm spending less time on the .Org. I'll try to push my involvement up back to an acceptable level.

Also, TC, while you were away there was some discussion about removing inactive avatars (BananaBob's name came up the most, IIRC). Is the plan to off them once and for all at the start of the next Senate session?

The names of Neokaisareitis, Sarantinos, Ek Korinthiou, or Eirinikos come to mind when mentioning Inactive avatars...

New ones could always be recruited if these people come back...

Lemon hasn't been on for two months...
Byblos for almost 3
Bananabob last post dates back a month
and Ichigo hasn't make an apparition here for a long time though he's still active on the .Org.

Those avatars are asking to be killed off...

EDIT : Oops !! In my mind, we were at the start of September... Hopefully, TC got it right...

The relevant avatars are Philippos Eirinikos (Ichigo), Tarasios Sarantinos (Byblos), and Anastasios Neokaisareitis (The Lemongate). I checked with Ichigo and he confirmed he is not returning and can be killed off. Byblos has been gone for 4 months and TLG has been gone for 3.5 months. All three will thus be killed off the next time I actually do something to the save game (which could well be the next Senate session). BananaBob is borderline at the moment. He has been gone for 2 months, but PK previously said that he had been in touch with BB and was going to contact him via email to see what was going on. However, since PK is himself inactive now, this has led nowhere. I will probably give BananaBob one more Megas term to reappear before killing him off, just to be sure.

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Again, sorry for not being active either in an OOC (finishing up the Influence mess) or an IC (Making an SoT, initially moving my character) role. At the moment RL has gotten more fun/interesting so as a result I'm spending less time on the .Org. I'll try to push my involvement up back to an acceptable level.

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OH OH!! I know what that is!!! Giiiiirrrrrlllllss!!!

GH has a girlfriend na na naaa na naaaaa!!!

I'm soooo juvenile...IT'S GREAT!!! :egypt:

Thanks AG. That actually did make me LOL. :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

Anyways, it's more a group of friends and just more freedom than anything else.

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Thanks AG. That actually did make me LOL. :laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

Anyways, it's more a group of friends and just more freedom than anything else.

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So no girlfriend? ~:(



Edit: :clown:

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Anyways, it's more a group of friends and just more freedom than anything else.

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So, what you're trying to say is you'll be too busy looking for a girlfriend? :beam:

I'll tell you guys what, since you're so clearly interested in my romantic pursuits (:tongue:), as soon as a proper lady comes along you shall be the first to know. :yes: :laugh4:

I'm fine with that :laugh4:

If you have any sense what you're looking for is actually a series of not-quite-so proper ladies. :belly: :cheerleader: :nurse: :gorgeous:

:egypt:

He's pulling the wool over everyone's eyes!! :beam:

He's up to his '30 dollar CK boxer shorts' in action, and he's just too much of a gentleman to spill the beans!! :balloon2:

Somehow, this picture you've painted is going to work its way into the game storyline.

P.S. Smowz, when an army is transported by a fleet, there is a limit of two army units per ship. It's an ancient, ancient rule, written down in an odd and hidden place, Charter section 1.1. You're not quite done assembling your flotilla yet.

Yeah, that rule is about as old as they come. It was one of econ21's custom PBM 'House Rules' from well before WOTS to make the game more challenging.

Oops, okay I will return my army to shore and keep gathering my flotilla.

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Somehow, this picture you've painted is going to work its way into the game storyline.

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And knowing you GH, I'm sure it will be an excellent story, creating wonderful depth and colour to this visual feast of information. :clown:

What's the situation with the Privy Seal, Lord High Chancellor, and Lord High Steward retinue? Could you please transfer them to Andonikos Komnenos, Appionas Vringos, and Pavlos Chrysovergos respectively.

I've just checked the save, and Ioannis should have 5 authority. 1 for the trait "Sharp", 1 for the trait "Renowned Victor", and 3 for the trait "Utterly Pragmatic". He has no negative traits at all, or any negative avatars.

I just wanted to tell you guys that my computer problems are now solved and im back in the game.:2thumbsup:

I don't know much about the MTWII traits system, but a good test would seem to be using the console to remove those from the avatar and then adding them back. If there was something wrong with the way they were assigned that might clear it. Alternately, to test if there's a bug in the SS traits themselves, go back to OK's emperor and add them to him to see how they alter his authority (Removing them first if they're already present, etc.).

Is it possible that, since Ioannis is a starting avatar, the SS guys altered him to try to create a weaker successor to Aleksios?

:egypt:

I'm at work and can't download SS 4.1 to check (and BBB 2.1 isn't available anymore) but I grabbed BBB 3.0 there are no hidden traits in that version that impact authority. I am beginning to suspect that this may be a bug. I am also having vague recollections of something like this occuring in KotR as well, which just kind of fixed itself. Do any of the KotR veterans remember something like that with Kaiser Henry, perhaps?

Can someone do me a favor do a couple things:
1) Advance the game a few turns and see if Ioannis' authority stat changes to conform to what his trait list indicates he should have.
2) Load up a couple of the older saves at various points and check to see if Aleksios' authority stat matched what his trait list indicated he should have.

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Also, can someone tell me which provinces have been conquered in the middle east since 1140 (last election) and who they currently belong to?

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Originally Posted by Kagemusha

I just wanted to tell you guys that my computer problems are now solved and im back in the game.:2thumbsup:

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Glad to have you back!

I should check whether someone has computer problems before I gift them the castle containing most of my armed forces. :beam:

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Also, can someone tell me which provinces have been conquered in the middle east since 1140 (last election) and who they currently belong to?

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The only settlement captured since 1140 is Gaza IIRC.

Perusing the Political Table, I noticed that Methodios was listed with having 1 Inf. Doesn't his being Caesar grant him an automatic + 1 Inf ?

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Originally Posted by Tristan de Castelreng

Perusing the Political Table, I noticed that Methodios was listed with having 1 Inf. Doesn't his being Caesar grant him an automatic + 1 Inf ?

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The influence table has not been updated since 1140. I only update it during Senate sessions, and did not do so for the emergency session since I wasn't around for it. It will be updated again when the 1155 Senate session starts... unless another emergency session is called before then.

Also, please note that the rank of Caesar only gives a +1 to STAT influence. People seem to be getting Influence and Stat Influence confused, so I'll try and explain it a bit better.

There are TWO kinds of 'Influence'... regular Influence and Stat Influence. Regular Influence is an automatic +1 to your vote weight. If you have +1 Influence, you get +1 to your vote weight no matter what happens. Stat Influence is NOT automatic, it is simply extra influence that it is possible for you to achieve if you have the right stats. In order to actually make use of a point of Stat Influence, you have to meet one of the requirements for it. These are the requirements:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(a) 5+ ranks of Command (b) 10 ranks of Command (c) 5+ ranks of Chivalry or Dread (d) 10 ranks of Chivalry or Dread (e) 10 ranks of Loyalty (f) 8+ ranks of Piety (g) 20+ total stat points (h) 30+ total stat points (i) 40 total stat points (j) Senator’s name is modified by a trait title that bestows more negative than positive stat points (i.e. the Mad) (k) Senator is married to a Byzantine Empire Princess (l) Senator possesses the title of Lord High Chancellor, Lord High Steward, or Privy Seal.

Let's use an actual avatar as an example:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b...s-komnenos.jpg

In this mugshot, Ioannis meets 3 of the requirements for Stat Influence. These are (a) 5+ ranks of Command, (c) 5+ ranks of Chivalry, and (g) 20+ total stat points. Thus, Ioannis at this point can make use of 3 Stat Influence. However, that doesn't contribute to his vote weight unless he actually has 3 or more Stat Influence available to him.

For example, lets pretend that at this point Ioannis holds the rank of Domestikos. Domestikos gives 1 regular Influence and up to 1 Stat Influence. Thus, his total vote weight is 2 (1 from regular influence and 1 from Stat Influence). Even though he meets the requirements for two more Stat Influence, he does not get any benefit from them because he does not have sufficient rank to make use of them. Now, let's instead pretend that Ioannis holds the rank of Exarch. Exarch gives 1 regular Influence and up to 4 Stat Influence. This means Ioannis gets a total weighted vote of 4, 1 from his regular influence and 3 because he meets 3 of the Stat Influence requirements. He does NOT get to use the 4th Stat Influence from the Exarch rank, because he does not meet a 4th requirement.

The reasoning behind this is simple: You have to have both rank AND good stats to get higher influence. A buffoon will not sway many people into voting his way, even if he has a high rank. A genius will not be able to sway voters if he has no political rank of significance. In order to increase your influence you need to improve your stats AND gain in rank.

This is one of the reasons why the Megas position is so powerful. Even after you have left the position, you get a permanent +1 to regular Influence and a permanent +1 to Stat Influence. Let's look at Ioannis again to see the advantage. If Ioannis in the above mugshot has the rank of Strator, he has a measly vote weight of 1, despite his high stats. However, let's pretend that he's also served as Megas TWICE. He's still a Strator (perhaps he just alienated all his allies and lost a Civil War), but the two terms as Megas give him a +2 to regular Influence and a +2 to Stat Influence. Since he meets the requirements for at least 2 Stat Influence, he can make use of them both. Thus, he gets +4 to his vote weight from his two Megas terms in addition to the normal 1 he gets for being a Strator. So, double ex-Megas Ioannis has a vote weight of 5, despite only holding the rank of Strator. That is as powerful as an Exarch with maxed-out Stat Influence.

Hi all,

This KoP with another name. Finally my internet access is back and I wish to enter the game. I would like my avatar killed off and just use the automatic will of it going to my Lord. I assume you will post up the avaliable avatars in the sign up thread?

Glad to have you back, Dafuge

Things are busier than ever in rl for me, but I'm not sure I can resist any longer, and I see one of the characters I was thinking about trying to play is nearly of age.

Anyone mind if I take Magnentios (Ioannis Kalameteros' son) in two turns?

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Originally Posted by Dafuge

Hi all,

This KoP with another name. Finally my internet access is back and I wish to enter the game. I would like my avatar killed off and just use the automatic will of it going to my Lord. I assume you will post up the avaliable avatars in the sign up thread?

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Certainly. Where would you like to start?

[edit]Just noticed that you're sworn to Makedonios. PK is currently inactive, thus dying without a will may tie up your province, since it will go to an inactive player. If you'd like to make things a bit easier for the Order, just make a post in their thread that your will is that your province go to Armatos ek Naksou, the current leader of the Order.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zim

Anyone mind if I take Magnentios (Ioannis Kalameteros' son) in two turns?

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No one has requested him before you, so consider him yours. For IC/Senate purposes, you can start playing him now if you would like instead of waiting until he spawns.

WOOHOO !! Zim is back !!

OK, I will post in the Order of St. John thread.

Great to see you back, Zim.

For Flemish Cloth! :charge::charge::charge:

On the authority stat, FYI authority can 'roll around' such that negative authority displays as having 10 authority. This occurs even in vanilla (There were several examples of it in my Total Tyranny campaign and I think the screenshots would still be there to find). That doesn't mean it's not a bug, but I doubt it's an artifact of the removal of the civil war system.

The King from my first stint in the Scottish AAR might've had this happen too, I can't remember if his rolled around to negative numbers or was just zero.

There are a number of examples of this type of behavior in MTWII (For example your Papal approval rating can roll over the top and suddenly go from perfect to the lowest possible, this happened twice in my Danish campaign because my rules forced gifting so much territory to the Pope). Sloppy coding if you ask me.

:egypt:

Well, it does mean that Ioannis has negative Authority for some reason. I checked the game files and Ioannis does not have ANY negative authority traits. There IS a hidden negative authority trait in the game that is part of the Civil War system, but I don't think that's the problem either because I tried removing it and Ioannis' authority didn't change. If he'd had it, removing it would have worked even though it wasn't showing up on his trait list. Thus, Ioannis seems to have a default -2 to Authority. AFAIK, that shouldn't be happening, thus I call it a bug until I'm shown otherwise.

Seems that I'm having some trouble installing Med 2. Anyway I'm glad my province is out the way and my character is gone. Now I can start afresh. As soon as I get my Medieval 2 working I would like to be spawned in Trebizond. (sp?)

Edit: Saw that TC already made me a few characters in Thessalonica. No worrys, will change my plan.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dafuge

Seems that I'm having some trouble installing Med 2. Anyway I'm glad my province is out the way and my character is gone. Now I can start afresh. As soon as I get my Medieval 2 working I would like to be spawned in Trebizond. (sp?)

Edit: Saw that TC already made me a few characters in Thessalonica. No worrys, will change my plan.

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Trebizond is not a problem. I was planning on teleporting your character to your chosen destination anyway, and it's very easy to do. Just don't take the save next turn until after you pick and I move your avatar.

OK, cool. :beam:

Edit: Sorry I've changed my mind again, can you please move my character to Alexandria once you have spawned the characters.

Double Edit: I've got Medi 2 working and set up on the LotR mod thing so I'm good to go. I'll just be waiting for TC to move my character to Alexandria and I'm done. :beam:

Just a note that I won't be online again until Friday, so please conduct all negotiations concerning the Basileus with AussieGiant.

AG also has permission to move Ioannis, which is stated in my SOT.

Wow! Some crazy stuff here.

OK I'm assuming the new RBG are in Thessalonica. If so I choose Efthymios ek Herakliou. Can you zip him to Alexandria and dellete the other guy. I'm assuming I can start playing him straight away?

Just a quick brain check.

Who's Dafuge again?

I'm KoP or Knights_of_Palma. I think I played Stavros of the Order.

Thanks for the clarification Dafuge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dafuge

OK I'm assuming the new RBG are in Thessalonica. If so I choose Efthymios ek Herakliou. Can you zip him to Alexandria and dellete the other guy. I'm assuming I can start playing him straight away?

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I will move Efthymios and kill the others off now.