Mafia VI: Night of the Day of the Dawn of the Return of the Mafia [Concluded]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Which is long enough for most of the posts...sadly.

I like the idea of a somewhat slower game (48 hours? 72?) -- always liked turtling in RTW anyway -- to allow for better reads.

Easy to get burnt out. I find myself taking time off after games just to read the backroom a bit or such.

I think we need to go to one major and 2 minis at any one time. Just a thought.

---

Well, I'm in 4 minis and 2 majors + this game at the moment. At the slower pace I can read the new posts think it over for a couple days, maybe reread certain bits and then post. Helps you remember what happens.

The problem is, when we run the slow games here, no one says anything. For days and days. People just aren't used to that playstyle.

Here's a link to a fast mafiascum game: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4652&start=0

Lasted a month. 550 posts, 12 players. But if you read the first few pages you can see how it's supposed to be done.

I'm thinking we might try a 7 player game with 7 big posters. No deadline. See how well we can do. I don't want to host it though...

Two rather sloppy kills by the mafia. I need to reread. :confused:

I decided to look at BK's posts first. Note this one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BK

No one seems guilty except Sasaki (as usual)...

Vote: Abstain

---

No one seems guilty except Sasaki.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BK

Because Sasaki is a bad idea for a lynch...

---

Followed by this the next day. Forgetting what you said the day before, BK?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BK

Yes, I abstained, because I "thought Sasaki was a bad lynch".

Whenever I play mafia e.g. CTDC and 3 Sons of Algamar, I almost never abstain, and I always do my best to get the other player lynched, going random with my votes...

I am kinda lurking in this game because I can only devote all my attention to one game at a time, soon to be this one as soon as I die in Monks and Masons...

And unless I'm innocent I never mind bandwagoning...

---

But just then you said you thought Sasaki was guilty? :dizzy2:

Why would you devote your attention to a mini game over a large mafia game?


The rest of his posts seem to be joking. Besides two that stick out in my mind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BK

Vote: Xiahou
He seems to be unusually anxious to not get lynched...

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BK

Nooooo Chugg!!

Vote: Sigurd

For reasons posted above.

---

Both votes with no reasoning, and nothing useful in any of his other posts as far as I can tell.

No time to elaborate right now, but:

Unvote: AndresTheCunning
Vote: Dutch_guy

Just reviewed his posts, and I didn't like what I saw. I'll try to explain more tomorrow.

This search is pissing me off. Keeps going back to BK when i search for CA posts. Really Kommodus, and to think you just thought Andres was guilty.

The only thing that really jumps out at me about CA's posts is these.

Quote:

---

IIRC it is unlike Rabbit to lurk. Perhaps he is trying to fly under the radar? Let's see him talk.

---

Quote:

---

Vote: Pannonian

Seems far too eager to lynch Crazed Rabbit.

---

And maybe this.

Quote:

---

Vote: Sasaki

He's been quiet... too quiet...

---

Quote:

---

I'll go with Kommodus on this one as well. He seems to know what he is doing.

Unvote: Sasaki
Vote: AndrestheCunning

---

Other than that he seems rather townie to me. Unless you think Sigurd was mafia then I'de go with CA because of this statement.

Quote:

---

Alright, to break the tie:
Sigurd - I don't see anything abnormal with him here really
Sasaki - As above, jsut seems to be helping the town a bit
Xiahou - Seems not quite himself

Vote: Xiahou

---

Seems rather strange that he wouldn't find anything abnormal with Sigurd's posting considering how he was acting in the earlier rounds.

I'll probably have to finish my overview of the rest tomorrow. A couple of people I could do right now are:

Kage: Every vote he's cast has been with little reasoning and hasn't really participated in the discussion of the thread. Has claimed RL so I guess I'll believe him.

CR: Has been lurking big time with a grand total of 5 posts. Has been active in other forums(ex:Backroom) Posted just pretty much to keep from being WoG'de why no one knows since he doesn't seem to be paying much attention to the game. How he's still around I don't know.

Ugh I'm tired

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ichigo

I decided to look at BK's posts first. Note this one.



No one seems guilty except Sasaki.



Followed by this the next day. Forgetting what you said the day before, BK?



But just then you said you thought Sasaki was guilty? :dizzy2:

Why would you devote your attention to a mini game over a large mafia game?


The rest of his posts seem to be joking. Besides two that stick out in my mind.






Both votes with no reasoning, and nothing useful in any of his other posts as far as I can tell.

---

I was saying that Sasaki always looks guilty, and thats nothing new... I was not saying that he was guilty, just normal...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kommodus

No time to elaborate right now, but:

Unvote: AndresTheCunning
Vote: Dutch_guy

Just reviewed his posts, and I didn't like what I saw. I'll try to explain more tomorrow.

---

Well, as it's tomorrow here (here at least), I think an explanation is in order .

I haven't been posting a lot this game, a fact, and since your suspicion of me is quite new, my last two or three posts would have done it for you one would say. So what bothered you enough those last two or three posts, in which I tried to express my view on the game, to warrant a vote ?

:balloon2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kommodus

No time to elaborate right now, but:

Unvote: AndresTheCunning
Vote: Dutch_guy

Just reviewed his posts, and I didn't like what I saw. I'll try to explain more tomorrow.

---

I'll wait until the further explanation is offered before passing judgement.

It troubles me when I see some of you (CountArach in particular) accepting Kommodus' results and following his suggestions blindly. Kommodus has abused his own system once when he was mafia and it failed once in another game. He's also an experienced player who knows what to do when he is a townie, but who also knows very well what to do when he is mafia. His system is useful and has been succesful in the past and therefore can be a good indication, but you should add some of your own reasoning when voting. Just accepting it without giving your own thoughts on why you vote a particular player makes yourself suspicious and makes me wonder if you are not trying to hide behind somebody else's logic.

As long as the detective doesn't reveal (let's hope he's still alive), you can't trust nobody in this game, so blindly believing Kommodus is a) bad idea or b) you are scum and take advantage of not being on his list or c) you are scum and you companion is Kommodus

Allthough I am suspicious about Kommodus, he is very useful when playing pro-town, so I suggest we don't lynch him for now. I am just wondering about his further explanation about his change of attitude and I am eager to see how he develops further in the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ByzantineKnight

I was saying that Sasaki always looks guilty, and thats nothing new... I was not saying that he was guilty, just normal...

---

Hmmm, well, Ichigo wasn't the only one who interpreted your post as that you were thinking Sasaki was suspicious and guilty in your opinion.

Why didn't you vote him? Did you post "he looks guilty" just to make you look like the helpfull townie? If you thought he was guilty, you should have been consequent and voted him. If it was just a general statement, like "Sasaki is always suspicious, you are never really sure about him", you should have said so and you should have stated clearly that you didn't have a clue. Or where you hoping to look innocent, meanwhile avoiding to cast the 'killing' vote on Sasaki (IIRC I had 3 votes and he had 4 at that time)? If you didn't have a clue, you could have voted me, creating a tie, resulting in more discussion and more clues to decide on.

:inquisitive:

Vote : Byzantine Knight

Accusing somebody without voting + casting an accusation without any good reason and quickly withdrawing the accusation when questioned instead of elaborating.

Oh, and I would like an explanation from Dutch_guy. Why have you been lurking throughout the game, posting every now and than but without voting? I know lurking is a habit for you, as I've noticed it in previous games, but the non voting seems a bit odd.

And I would like to know why CR has been ignoring this thread. I noticed some posts of you in other threads, so the claim of real life making it impossible to post here is not 100 % convincing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AndresTheCunning

Hmmm, well, Ichigo wasn't the only one who interpreted your post as that you were thinking Sasaki was suspicious and guilty in your opinion.

Why didn't you vote him? Did you post "he looks guilty" just to make you look like the helpfull townie? If you thought he was guilty, you should have been consequent and voted him. If it was just a general statement, like "Sasaki is always suspicious, you are never really sure about him", you should have said so and you should have stated clearly that you didn't have a clue. Or where you hoping to look innocent, meanwhile avoiding to cast the 'killing' vote on Sasaki (IIRC I had 3 votes and he had 4 at that time)? If you didn't have a clue, you could have voted me, creating a tie, resulting in more discussion and more clues to decide on.

:inquisitive:

Vote : Byzantine Knight

Accusing somebody without voting + casting an accusation without any good reason and quickly withdrawing the accusation when questioned instead of elaborating.

---

I never accused Sasaki of anything, thats what I was trying to say in my last post, I was just commenting on the fact that no one stuck out (except Sasaki who always does).

And what do you mean I didn't elaborate? I explained to all of you that I wasn't saying Sasaki is a mafia, just that he 'stuck out' (a phrase which in my vocabulary that means draws alot of suspicion, not necessarily guilty)

I'm sorry for bad phrasing of my sentences... :shame:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ByzantineKnight

I never accused Sasaki of anything, thats what I was trying to say in my last post, I was just commenting on the fact that no one stuck out (except Sasaki who always does).

And what do you mean I didn't elaborate? I explained to all of you that I wasn't saying Sasaki is a mafia, just that he 'stuck out' (a phrase which in my vocabulary that means draws alot of suspicion, not necessarily guilty)

I'm sorry for bad phrasing of my sentences... :shame:

---

Hmmm... Sounds reasonable. The confusion might indeed have been caused by misinterpretation of your english.

Unvote : Byzantine Knight

Well, CR, you didn't post alot in here while you were active in other threads. Were your few posts in here just to avoid getting WoG'ed? Trying to lurk your way through victory? Your real life claim isn't convincing, because you participated in other threads. So I would like some decent explanation.

Vote : Crazed Rabbit

Talk to us :whip:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CountArach

I'll wait until the further explanation is offered before passing judgement.

---

You're perfectly entitled to it, we all are. But don't you think it's a bit too trusty, deciding ones vote solely on what one influential player has to say ? We have all done so at one time or the other in past games, and probably will in future games. But it isn't at all 'fun' if you're at the receiving end. Putting thought into ones vote shouldn't only be a courtesy, it should be a must.

Quote:

---

Oh, and I would like an explanation from Dutch_guy. Why have you been lurking throughout the game, posting every now and than but without voting? I know lurking is a habit for you, as I've noticed it in previous games, but the non voting seems a bit odd.

---

As you said so yourself, it's me being me. However, now I have to change, abstaining is not allowed anymore, and I will therefor have to carefully consider my next vote.

:balloon2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dutch_guy

Well, as it's tomorrow here (here at least), I think an explanation is in order .

I haven't been posting a lot this game, a fact, and since your suspicion of me is quite new, my last two or three posts would have done it for you one would say. So what bothered you enough those last two or three posts, in which I tried to express my view on the game, to warrant a vote ?

---

It wasn't your last two or three posts. It was a review of all your posts from the beginning of the game. Dutch_guy, you've been flying under the radar for most of the game. You've even stayed close enough to your baseline statistical behavior to avoid attention from Holmes. But when I look over everything you've said, I get the impression (fairly strongly) of someone who's being evasive. We're coming to the end of the game - probably a mere two lynches left by my count - and you don't seem to have made any strong statements about anyone yet. Most of the time when you have posted something substantial it's been in defense of yourself.

I've had a feeling for a long time that at least one of our mafiosi is quite an experienced player. It's probably someone who's a story-writing type but isn't known as such. With most of our experienced players killed off, you're one of the only remaining players who fits that bill.

Part of it also had to do with the process of elimination. Most of the other players feel more townish to me when I review their statements. You, on the other hand...

These things combined make me strongly suspect you. And don't bother claiming detective - if you really were you'd have claimed already.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AndresTheCunning

Allthough I am suspicious about Kommodus, he is very useful when playing pro-town, so I suggest we don't lynch him for now. I am just wondering about his further explanation about his change of attitude and I am eager to see how he develops further in the game.

---

And you. Don't imagine I'm not still suspicious of you, friend. This statement makes me even more so. Everyone knows I'm an asset to the town (as long as I'm the town's side, of course), so keeping me alive is a fine idea - early in the game. When you're down to your last two (three at most) lynches, and there are still probably two mafia alive, it's not a good idea at all.

Other people are pointing out ByzantineKnight and Stig. They may be right, but if I had to choose two mafia right now I'd go with Dutch_guy and AndresTheCunning. :yes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kommodus

And you. Don't imagine I'm not still suspicious of you, friend. This statement makes me even more so. Everyone knows I'm an asset to the town (as long as I'm the town's side, of course), so keeping me alive is a fine idea - early in the game. When you're down to your last two (three at most) lynches, and there are still probably two mafia alive, it's not a good idea at all.

---

But it would be illogical if your system would all of the sudden exclude me after one extra day I think, so off course you keep suspicious of me.

Can you explain to me what exactly, besides the results of holmes, makes me suspicious in your eyes?

Something that caught my attention: Now that holmes has been questioned and several players have expressed their doubts, you point your finger at someone who has not been detected by it ~:confused:

Anyway, I think CR is mafia and he stays my main suspect.

Besides, wasn't CR on your initial list of suspects? How did he disappear all of the sudden of that list? I think it's suspicious that CR has been lurking all the time, meanwhile posting in several other threads. Is he the silent mafioso, while you are trying to get as many townies lynched as possible? According to you we have two (hopefully 3) lynches left. Two wrong lynches = mafia victory.

I think we should abstract from the holmes results (apparently you don't fully trust those results either) and if somebody is to rely on them, they should consider that Kommodus accuses one person because of the results of holmes and another who hasn't been identified by that same holmes thingy.

If the game doesn't end after CR's death, I will vote you my friend.

I am telling the truth about the constraints of real life - 2 exams last week, a day of skiing, another exam this week.

Yes, I've posted in other threads, but other threads don't require reading hundreds of posts to get a good read on someone.

Right now, then, I'm going to vote: Dutch_guy.

He seems the best choice right now.

Crazed Rabbit

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

He seems the best choice right now.

Crazed Rabbit

---

Can you explain to us why? The quoted sentence suggests you did read at least a part of the thread to make a decision. Or are you just blindly following (your buddy?) Kommodus?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

He seems the best choice right now.

---

For reasons posted by Kommodus I assume ?

:balloon2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dutch_guy

For reasons posted by Kommodus I assume ?

:balloon2:

---

:laugh4:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dutch_guy

For reasons posted by Kommodus I assume ?

:balloon2:

---

Because of Kommodus, and because from what I've read, he seems right.

CR

Unvote: Dutch Guy
Vote: CR

Kommodus hasn't given a good reason against Dutch Guy yet, only a not working program and his intuition

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stig

Kommodus hasn't given a reason against Dutch Guy yet

---

Er, what? Yes I have; go back and read post #764.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kommodus

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dutch_guy

Well, as it's tomorrow here (here at least), I think an explanation is in order .

I haven't been posting a lot this game, a fact, and since your suspicion of me is quite new, my last two or three posts would have done it for you one would say. So what bothered you enough those last two or three posts, in which I tried to express my view on the game, to warrant a vote ?

---

It wasn't your last two or three posts. It was a review of all your posts from the beginning of the game. Dutch_guy, you've been flying under the radar for most of the game. You've even stayed close enough to your baseline statistical behavior to avoid attention from Holmes. But when I look over everything you've said, I get the impression (fairly strongly) of someone who's being evasive. We're coming to the end of the game - probably a mere two lynches left by my count - and you don't seem to have made any strong statements about anyone yet. Most of the time when you have posted something substantial it's been in defense of yourself.

I've had a feeling for a long time that at least one of our mafiosi is quite an experienced player. It's probably someone who's a story-writing type but isn't known as such. With most of our experienced players killed off, you're one of the only remaining players who fits that bill.

Part of it also had to do with the process of elimination. Most of the other players feel more townish to me when I review their statements. You, on the other hand...

These things combined make me strongly suspect you. And don't bother claiming detective - if you really were you'd have claimed already.

---

EDIT: Ok, I see you've edited your post to clarify what you meant. Never mind then. Though I object to your characterization of my program as "not working" - it's not foolproof but it's been right more than it's been wrong.

I heard you used it twice, in 1 it didn't work, in the other you were mafia

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stig

I heard you used it twice, in 1 it didn't work, in the other you were mafia

---

Where the heck are you people getting your information...? :dizzy2:

I've used it three times. The first time it worked 100% of the time (2/2). The second time it worked 50% of the time (1/2). The third time I was mafia, and it still worked well enough to find me a mason.

So for the town it worked
100% + 50% + 0% = 150%
150 / 3 = 50% of the time. Besides as you said yourself people by now know how it works and it's easy to evade it. So imo it doesn't work (well enough to help us)

Stig, that really doesn't make sense.

I didn't want to be forced to do this, but...
I am not mafia, I am a townie working for the elimination of the mafia and a townie victory. I swear this to be true.

Killing me off only helps the mafia.

Crazed Rabbit

You seem pretty desperate, afaik it's still a tie


Vote count:
CR 2 (Andres, Stig)
Dutch Guy 2 (Kommo, CR)
Kommo 1 (Kage)

Desperate? You do not understand - when I swear I am not mafia, I am not mafia. I have never, in the numerous games I've played, lied about this, even when it would save me from being lynched. And I am not lying now.

Crazed Rabbit

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stig

You seem pretty desperate, afaik it's still a tie

---

He's not desperate. He's making use of the well-known fact that Crazed Rabbit does not tell outright lies. He does mislead, but not in that way. Not many of us can make such a claim after playing in so many mafia games, but AFAIK he still can.

Even back in Capo, when GH exposed his entire family (the Barzinis), CR owned up to the whole thing immediately. Most other people thought he was using reverse psychology. I knew at once he was telling the plain truth.

Stig, don't take this the wrong way. I still think you're probably clean, and I have no intention of being insulting here. But your logic is a bit flawed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stig

So for the town it worked
100% + 50% + 0% = 150%
150 / 3 = 50% of the time. Besides as you said yourself people by now know how it works and it's easy to evade it. So imo it doesn't work (well enough to help us)

---

A. You can't count the game in which I was mafia. That doesn't reflect on the capabilities of the program itself at all.

B. Just because people know how it works doesn't mean they can easily evade it. The art of being mafia is simply the art of acting natural, like a normal townie. Yes, people are getting better at that, which will make it harder for my program, but that doesn't render it useless.

Anyway, the point is moot because I haven't used my program to attack DG. I used my intution, which you doubt (fine), but that doesn't excuse you from gathering your own evidence.

Think about this: who has seemed keen throughout the game to prove that they are acting no different than they always do? That's right, Dutch_guy. Go back and read his posts if you doubt. In many ways he's succeeded, but IMO it's too much of an act.

Quote:

---

Desperate? You do not understand - when I swear I am not mafia, I am not mafia. I have never, in the numerous games I've played, lied about this, even when it would save me from being lynched. And I am not lying now.

---

Pointing others on ones good side when faced with death is never a trust gaining act, as you know. However, your lack of play in the sense of actually on the verge of getting WOG'ed and then suddenly acting up when the end is nigh does not help your case. No one likes to die, but it seems here that you have something to lose. You're not the detective, you would have revealed otherwise, and you're behaviour as described above doesn't quite fit the townie role. Let alone the style you've been using since mafia game one. Hence this vote, vote:Crazed Rabbit.

:balloon2: