2012 U.S. Presidential Election

If Romney wants to lash out at the welfare queens, then let him.

But as I have stated here and elsewhere, plenty of people in that 47% bracket are middle and upper middle class earners who use deductions and credits to bring their tax liability down to zero. In the case of self-employed and small business owners, someone who grosses middle and upper middle but also spends tens of thousnds on business expenses (re:putting money back in the economy) can effectively itemize themselves down to zero tax liability.

If Romney wants to get rid of credits like that, and get rid of mrtgage insurance deductions, and healthcare deductions and deductions for having kids, then more power to him. I would not be against that.

But Romney should not demonize me (as being against change) for using the same credits and deductions his manicured, pussy face uses. This is what upsets me about his statement. If he wants to lash out at the welfare queens, I believe his percetage would have been more around the 20-25% mark.

Or maybe I am just taking all this the wrong way. Moar anarchy plz

I thought we were an autonomous collective :(

Yes, the autonomous bailout saved Detroit, now give me my free "We are all overpaid union employees" t-shirt

You know, for someone that's only recently started getting his :daisy: together, this is getting pretty depressing.

Wouldn't it be clever, and not creepy at all, if Obama supporters wrote why they support him on the hands in marker and then tweeted pics of themselves?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://img338.imageshack.us/img338/...pjscmaawgm.jpg

No, nevermind- it is creepy.

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In other news, HHS Secretary Sebelius was cited for violating the Hatch Act during a trip in February...

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The Office of the Special Counsel on Wednesday announced it was citing Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius for illegally making political comments at an official event, which is a violation of the federal Hatch Act.

The counsel found that she made the comments when delivering the keynote speech at the Human Rights Campaign Gala in February.

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

Wouldn't it be clever, and not creepy at all, if Obama supporters wrote why they support him on the hands in marker and then tweeted pics of themselves?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://img338.imageshack.us/img338/...pjscmaawgm.jpg

No, nevermind- it is creepy.

..........
In other news, HHS Secretary Sebelius was cited for violating the Hatch Act during a trip in February...

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I loved that dude in Powder.

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Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump

But as I have stated here and elsewhere, plenty of people in that 47% bracket are middle and upper middle class earners who use deductions and credits to bring their tax liability down to zero.

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Wasn't his message that any campaigning based on tax-cuts wouldn't appeal to these 47%? That's what I got out of the video.

I blame it all on Political Handlers.

I think that the Republican handlers are not nearly as good a their Democrat counterparts, for the most part.

Republican handlers should learn to keep their people on a shorter leash, like the Democrats do.

That way the public is spared more of those examples of foot-in-mouth disease.

In this age where everyone is a walking media outlet, WTF were the organizers doing allowing any of the help in w/o surrendering their gadgets?

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Originally Posted by Sigurd

Wasn't his message that any campaigning based on tax-cuts wouldn't appeal to these 47%? That's what I got out of the video.

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That's a bad message. He does not know that one way or the other. Some of the middle classers who itemize down their tax liabiity would surely enjoy more tax cuts as they will get a bigger refund using refundable credits. And some, like me, would probably care less one way or the other, but if the credit is there I am going to use it just like the rich pukes do. But to suggest that the aforementioned people are somehow wards of the state and therefore not interested in benefits for actaully doing work and contributing to the economy, well, that's just silly. For someone who is such a successful businessman, Romney's math sucks.

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

People like Romney don't actually use twitter, facebook, or iPhones. They have other people who make their living doing that for them. People who almost certainly don't pay income taxes. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Fisherking

I blame it all on Political Handlers.

I think that the Republican handlers are not nearly as good a their Democrat counterparts, for the most part.

Republican handlers should learn to keep their people on a shorter leash, like the Democrats do.

That way the public is spared more of those examples of foot-in-mouth disease.

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As I was saying...

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Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger

Mitt Romney was, of course, essentially correct. There is a whole portion of the population who coast through school with C’s. They party and drink their way through college (if they make it that far), finishing with some worthless communications or philosophy degree and no real skills. They put in the bare minimum effort required at some dead end job just to have enough money to support their social life. They have to have the latest Apple product, regardless of how empty their savings account is. Then they wake up at 45 and wonder why they have become such losers. They are entitled to their own interpretation of a ‘middle class lifestyle’ (whatever that is) and it is the government’s/successful people’s fault that they do not have it. It is always easier to blame personal failure on uncontrollable factors than personal decisions. The constant, monotonous droning on about the nameless, faceless ‘system’ and how it is rigged against the common man is just the latest incarnation of this phenomenon. At their core, people are either victims or fighters.

Just as with Reagan’s ‘welfare queen’ comment, Romney’s 47% will be held up by the media literati as proof of his heartlessness. However, those of us who live in the real world know all too well that he was tapping into a vein of truth. Welfare queens do exist, and they are legion. I used to evict them nearly every day. They were the people that ‘struggle’ to hold down a menial job in food service while caring for their three babies by three different men. The government paid for their food, diapers, and most of their rent, but they still couldn’t come up with the $50 a month their case worker asked them to pay to teach them ‘responsibility’. It never failed, though, that as they waited in my office to recount their sob story about how hard life had been for them, they would be texting on their iPhones. And when I told them to tell it to someone who gave a **** (in the nicest, most professional manner possible), they invariably gamed the system to live rent free for as long as possible. The truth is that these people are worthless dregs; their only value to the greater economy being raw consumption. It is high time that they are called out, instead of made to believe that their circumstances dictate their condition.

The realist in me sees this as very damaging and potentially fatal for the Romney campaign. However, my more optimistic side hopes that this may not be so bad. If you think about it, the people who will be offended by this are not going to vote for Romney anyway. Further, the comment will likely endear him to many Republicans. So we are left with the ~6% of people still undecided. Their interpretation of these remarks will likely be split somewhere down the middle – some agreeing with Romney’s fundamental characterization of the electorate and some not. So, essentially, this whole ‘scandal’ could be a wash, and may even help Romney with his ‘vision problem’. It certainly draws a sharp contrast with Obama’s view.

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Personal anecdote != reality

Of those that don't pay income tax, the majority pay payroll tax as well as state and local taxes such as sales tax. Obviously, these people are lazy at their jobs because they are not making enough to be taxed. Of the remaining ~1/3 that don't pay income or payroll tax, it is composed of people making under $20,000 a year and senior citizens who are retired.

In other words, PJ is a cynical ass because he deals with the worst people every day and assumes that since he meets so many for his job that the actual statistics must be representative of his interactions.

I worked at McDonalds all this summer. I got called "uncivilized" due to taking too much time to provide change, I was able to memorize the names and orders of six different regulars who came every day at a specific time. I was cursed at, called names and once almost had food thrown at me. But I don't come home and say, "gee 90% of people who make things difficult are those 40-65 years old (which was true), **** all the Baby Boomers, who are so entitled."

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

Personal anecdote != reality

Of those that don't pay income tax, the majority pay payroll tax as well as state and local taxes such as sales tax. Obviously, these people are lazy at their jobs because they are not making enough to be taxed. Of the remaining ~1/3 that don't pay income or payroll tax, it is composed of people making under $20,000 a year and senior citizens who are retired.

In other words, PJ is a cynical ass because he deals with the worst people every day and assumes that since he meets so many for his job that the actual statistics must be representative of his interactions.

I worked at McDonalds all this summer. I got called "uncivilized" due to taking too much time to provide change, I was able to memorize the names and orders of six different regulars who came every day at a specific time. I was cursed at, called names and once almost had food thrown at me. But I don't come home and say, "gee 90% of people who make things difficult are those 40-65 years old (which was true), **** all the Baby Boomers, who are so entitled."

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You worked at McDonalds?? You are just like Paul Ryan!! When I saw that Paul Ryan worked at McDonalds, just like me, and that Ann and Mitt lived in their parents basement, just like my nephew that we lock down there, I totally knew I ws voting for these guys. Since we both worked at McDonalds, ACIN, we should totally hang out and tell McDonalds stories, but I am afraid with you and your liberal sensitivities you will think of me as an elistist because when I worked at McDonalds I was a Birthday Clown.

I worked at a Burger King for a couple of weeks...

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Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump

You worked at McDonalds?? You are just like Paul Ryan!! When I saw that Paul Ryan worked at McDonalds, just like me, and that Ann and Mitt lived in their parents basement, just like my nephew that we lock down there, I totally knew I ws voting for these guys. Since we both worked at McDonalds, ACIN, we should totally hang out and tell McDonalds stories, but I am afraid with you and your liberal sensitivities you will think of me as an elistist because when I worked at McDonalds I was a Birthday Clown.

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My McDOnaldsd got rid of the playground because the kiddies were getting burns on the equipment during the summer. Now my location acts like a 2nd, more hip, senior center. Where seniors can order a senior sized coffee and hang around talking to each other for 4 hours, getting free refills.

Of course, liberal sensitivities aside, you are an elitist. There is only one clown per location (if that). By definition you are the 1%.

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

My McDOnaldsd got rid of the playground because the kiddies were getting burns on the equipment during the summer. Now my location acts like a 2nd, more hip, senior center. Where seniors can order a senior sized coffee and hang around talking to each other for 4 hours, getting free refills.

Of course, liberal sensitivities aside, you are an elitist. There is only one clown per location (if that). By definition you are the 1%.

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Well technically by going by a presumed average of 13 staff members he's the 8%

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Well technically by going by a presumed average of 13 staff members he's the 8%

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Snobbish clowns, with their upper class clothes, and their degrees from clown college.

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Originally Posted by Greyblades

Well technically by going by a presumed average of 13 staff members he's the 8%

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My McDonalds had a total of 80 listed workers currently employed. If he is the only clown than 1/80 is 1.25%.

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

My McDonalds had a total of 80 listed workers currently employed. If he is the only clown than 1/80 is 1.25%.

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So you are part of the oppressed masses?

Have you formed a soviet?

Are you supreme leader?

Here's a great article by Charles Krauthammer on the failure of the Obama administration's naive foreign policy, titled the Collapse of the Cairo Doctrine.

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It’s now three years since the Cairo speech. Look around. The Islamic world is convulsed with an explosion of anti-Americanism. From Tunisia to Lebanon, American schools, businesses and diplomatic facilities set ablaze. A U.S. ambassador and three others murdered in Benghazi. The black flag of Salafism, of which al-Qaeda is a prominent element, raised over our embassies in Tunisia, Egypt, Yemen and Sudan.

The administration, staggered and confused, blames it all on a 14-minute trailer for a film no one has seen and may not even exist.

What else can it say? Admit that its doctrinal premises were supremely naive and its policies deeply corrosive to American influence?

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It's a good read and many of his claims are sourced with links- take a look. :yes:

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

My McDOnaldsd got rid of the playground because the kiddies were getting burns on the equipment during the summer. Now my location acts like a 2nd, more hip, senior center. Where seniors can order a senior sized coffee and hang around talking to each other for 4 hours, getting free refills.

Of course, liberal sensitivities aside, you are an elitist. There is only one clown per location (if that). By definition you are the 1%.

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A little OT,
But the district tried to recruit me to go to the super secretive "Ronald McDonald School." They explained that there were only a a couple of dozen RMs around north and south america, and that I would not be able to tell most people what I did for a living, and that on trips I would have handlers who would feed me, open doors for me and act as McD secret service to keep me out of compromising situations, presumably all this to keep up the illusion that RM is "magical."

As a 19 year with high hopes for myself, I scoffed at the idea

Sometimes, while parked outside a fraudsters home for 3 days, peeing in bottles and crapping in a box in the backseat, I scoff at my 19 year old self.

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

Moral of the story? People suck, you can either live with them or kill them. You can't pretend to do one while doing the other. Anti-Americanism is a problem entirely of our own making. The solution is simply to stop meddling, stop lying, and stop validating their fears. :shrug:

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Has US foreign policy contributed to Anti-Americanism? Sure. Is it entirely responsible for it? No way. That view is overly simplistic and dangerous.

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*And by the way, naive? If Obama's foreign policy is naive, what was Bush Jr's?

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Yes, naive. Naive as in thinking that handing a plastic "Reset" button to Sergey Lavrov and abandoning missile defense plans would make Russia an ally. Or naive, in thinking that giving a speech in Cairo trumpeting a "new beginning" of "mutual respect" would yield either....

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

Has US foreign policy contributed to Anti-Americanism? Sure. Is it entirely responsible for it? No way. That view is overly simplistic and dangerous.

Yes, naive. Naive as in thinking that handing a plastic "Reset" button to Sergey Lavrov and abandoning missile defense plans would make Russia an ally. Or naive, in thinking that giving a speech in Cairo trumpeting a "new beginning" of "mutual respect" would yield either....

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Those are touching, feel-good statements largely for the benefit of other countries that shouldn't be confused as being anything else.

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

Here's a great article by Charles Krauthammer on the failure of the Obama administration's naive foreign policy, titled the Collapse of the Cairo Doctrine.

It's a good read and many of his claims are sourced with links- take a look. :yes:

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I think it's too early in the story to be saying that. Another way to look at it is that there are now many more democratic governments in the middle east than there were when Obama took office. As democracy is a threat to the beards, they have redoubled their efforts to stir up the populace in an attempt to not let moderates who are currently trying to form stable, democratic governments become too entrenched. They see this as a crucial time: if they can't dislodge more or less (or at least relative) secular democracy while it is still in its fragile state, then they and their movement will become nothing more than an historical footnote by the end of this century.

If anything, I think it can be argued that Obama's approach is working, and the islamists recognize this and are staging a last ditch effort to derail it.

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Originally Posted by Goofball

If anything, I think it can be argued that Obama's approach is working, and the islamists recognize this and are staging a last ditch effort to derail it.

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I'm not sure you'll find too many agreeing with you there. Here's another piece, from the CS Monitor.

President Obama has been forced to reassess his view of what caused the attack in Benghazi, Libya that killed US Ambassador Christopher Stevens, raising questions about whether the White House has a solid grasp on the underpinnings of the angry convulsions rocking the Middle East and the impact of the so-called “Cairo doctrine” laid out by Obama shortly after he took office in 2009.

....and more...

But emerging information about the attack and the continuing protests, some of which have turned deadly in recent days, have contrasted the President’s lofty hopes for the region with the impact of that policy, and whether it really quells tensions by reducing hatred for the US and the West among radical Muslims. Favorable views in Muslim countries toward the US dropped from 25 percent in 2009 to 15 percent in 2012, according to a Pew Global Attitudes survey released in June.

Indeed, when you look at the data, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan & Pakistan have less favorable views of the US now than they did in 2008- which was under the Bush administration.....

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Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump

A little OT,
But the district tried to recruit me to go to the super secretive "Ronald McDonald School." They explained that there were only a a couple of dozen RMs around north and south america, and that I would not be able to tell most people what I did for a living, and that on trips I would have handlers who would feed me, open doors for me and act as McD secret service to keep me out of compromising situations, presumably all this to keep up the illusion that RM is "magical."

As a 19 year with high hopes for myself, I scoffed at the idea

Sometimes, while parked outside a fraudsters home for 3 days, peeing in bottles and crapping in a box in the backseat, I scoff at my 19 year old self.

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If you don't mind saying, what was the pay?

Swing state polling is looking ugly for Team Boston.

Meanwhile, the approval/likeability thing is not going well for Boston. Note that both of these polls are pre-47%.

https://i.imgur.com/R0PLT.png

And not good with so-called "swing" voters. (Unclear on what defines that group.)

https://i.imgur.com/4wZxB.png

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Originally Posted by Lemur

And not good with so-called "swing" voters.

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The data for swing voters shows Romney with a huge lead on job creation and deficit reduction. Those two things are probably more important than all other issues put together.

One question that does not get posed is pretty simple, perhaps even simplistic: Why is the house built by Democrats and Republicans so transparently built on bribes?

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

If you don't mind saying, what was the pay?

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It was @90k IIRC. That was 1993, though.