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I think Norbanus has stated the point quite cleanly, Cotta can wait until the council session to have his glory, as much as I hate to admit it he deserves some reward for killing the republics enemy. Even if that reward is just to reinforce good behavior he smiles in amusement at the thought like a dog perhaps.
"Again Lvcvllvs my friend, I said nothing about denying a triumph. I merely reminded the Senate that for a triumphus to be granted, we must atleast consider wether we have the crowd anything to show. I did not advocate to deny a triumphus, as I also do not advocate for the granting of one.
Let us await the formal request from the Quaestor, and see what the house has to say."
The aged Senator Corlucius frowned at Sulla, his wrinkled face cracking into a thousand lines.
Be careful, Sextvs Cornelivs Svlla. Those kind of comments are not welcome here.
After he had spoken and Sulla had sat back down, a messenger walked into the hall, carrying a scroll. With a nod of approval, he read it out.
"From Quaestor Caivs Avrelivs Cotta, addressed to the honourable members of the Senate and People of Roma, welcome.
I formally request a triumphial procession through Roma following my recent victories in Illyria and Epirus, and the destruction of Roma's hated enemy, Pyrrhus, to be voted upon in the next congressional session. I ask this now that it may not count against my number of edicts in the congressional session, and to allow for the necessary preperations. I await your reply eagerly, Senators."
"Publius Norbanus, you are mistaken," came the raspy voice of Quintus Fulvius Veratius, "to believe that a Triumphus Militaris is primarily to show off wealth. Our ancient traditions hold that the Triumphus is a civil ceremony and religious rite held to publicly honor the military commander of a notably successful foreign war or campaign and to display the glories of Roman victory. Quaestor Caius Aurelius Cotta has won a number of significant victories over our enemies during his career and has also, now, brought down the scourge of the east who so plauged us with constant, bitter warfare."
Turning his frail frame towards Lucius Cornelius Scipio, Aedile of Tarentum, he continued
"Your cool head has softened the stinging words of Publius Norbanus, thank you for your calm insight. I also agree that Quaestor Caius Aurelius deserves a full triumphus for his combined service to the Res Publica, which of course, must be debated and voted on during the next Congressional session."
With that, he shuffled back to his seat and sat down, his thin body disappearing into the mass of folds of his toga.
Corlucius smiled at his old friend Quintus Fulvius. They were some of the last of the old generation of the Senate; their fellows having either passed on or retired. Now more and more younger men drifted into the Senate, all looking for blood, wherever they believed they could find it. He was glad that outburst had occured between Caivs the Fat and that barbarian Balbatus. He had never liked either of them, old patricians though both of them were, and he was glad the business between them had resorted in their mutual bans from the Senate. Finally, some piece. Time for the older men to set an example to the younger new boys. There were plenty of wars outside; there was little need to bring them inside as well. This was a hall of words and debate, not fists and curses. Perhaps now Quintus Fulvius and he could steer these young bloodhounds away from destructive measures, and towards a much more civilised venture...
Turning to Quintus Fulvius Veratius, Lucullus nodded and spoke: "True words, Quintus Fulvius."
Then he addressed Publius Norbanus: "Publius Norbanus, if that's the case, I agree with you. Let's decide upon the formal request for a Triumphus as soon as the next senatorial session has ended. In my opinion Quaestor Caius Aurelius deserves his Triumphus. Not only is he the conqueror of Illyria, he also released us from a powerful enemy. As long as Pyrrhus had lived, our people had not been save from another Epeirote invasion...."
"However", he continued to the Messenger, "we still wait for the formal request for a Triumphus. No doubt that Caius Aurelius will be granted his ceremony, but nonetheless it is a great honour, given by the Senate only to those who bother to set foot in the Curia and claim their right themselves, under the eyes of the dignified patres conscripti." After a rhetorical pause, Lucullus continued: We await him to the next senatorial session and will listen to his application. And may he bring his friends with him, whose comments on this matter also shall be heard."
Norbanus rose once more
"If every general wishing a triumph, would have to present his petition in person, we would have no one leading the legions anymore, Patres. Caivs Avrelivs has sent us an official dispatch requesting a Triump. We should discuss this and make a vote on it, this is not worth dragging out."
(OOC: things like this, should be votable outside congres. Tribunes of the plebs could come in handy here under my new rules. I agree votes outside of congress should be a minimum, but there are so much small matters like this which should be arranged outside congressional sessions. Otherwise we'll have too much things to vote on in the same session, losing the overview. Also, if you earn a triumph right after a congressional session, you have to wait another 12 turns, which might make no difference OR make a world of difference both ingame and inforum.)
No offence, but that sounds as if our triumphus' go like hot cakes. I think it's appropriate to claim it personally.
(OOC: I agree that we vote on such matters outside a session)
"Think practical for a moment. If every general has come to Rome to request his triumph, we would have no generals in the field. Therefore it is practical to let them request it beforehand. That way, it can be discussed in the senate and - if the triumph is granted - arrangements can be made in time."
As you may think fit. Then what say you to this matter? Triumphus, yes or no and why?
"I am but a mere Tribune of the Plebs, by custom the word should go to more senior senators first."
Don't be modest, some of the elder senatores already gave their opinion, and besides: are you talking about the same senior senatores, a certain "mere Tribune of the Plebs" intended to throw from the Tarpeian rock? Your opinion is most welcome, you should share it with us. But I don't want to force you. If you first want to hear other's opinions to form your own conform to them, that's ok.
Quintus Fulvius the Elder stood slowly, his toga hugged his bony shoulders tightly, but completely hid any figure of the frail man underneath, making him appear more a talking bust than anything else; his ashen skin and snow white hair only added to the illusion. In his thin voice he said,
"It has not been done this way before, to vote out of session for such things. However, the young Tribunus Pleibeus makes valid points. It is my opinion that a General make a formal request to the Senate for a Triumphus in writing, and not through messenger - that we know it is he himself who boldly seeks to claim what is his. However, in this case, I would be willing to make an exception, as I am also willing to take a vote on such matters outside of general session. The Res Publica has changed much through the years since I was a young man first entering these hallowed halls. It is by changing that we keep ourselves and our defenses relevant and avoid the stagnation that would render us victims to all who would plunder our culture and our coffers. I vote 'yay' that we hold a special voting session to debate the Quaestor's Triumphus. When the normal session convenes, we should ammend our charter to allow for such within the confines of the law."
The elder statesman sits down, nearly floating like a leaf in the autumn breeze, where his toga once again enveloped all but his uppermost portions.
Do you perhaps mean this letter, old friend? Corlucius asked Quintus Fulvius.Quote:
Originally Posted by _Bean_
I believe messengers are sometimes required to carry these letters, and read them out for us all to hear at once. He smiled kindly at his companion, meaning no malice in his joking sarcasm.
Lvcivs Cornelivs Scipio rose, ignoring Corlucius' interjection.
It wasn't due to fickleness but due to the ideals and laws passed down from our forefathers that we were able to make the Res Publica into what it is now, you should know this best, Quintus Fluvius. It is not change but preservation that keeps us from becoming "irrelevant".
L. C. Scipo made a short break before he continued:
Anyway, I do not want to start a discussion on principles now.
I agree with the triumphus being requested by an official messenger and with the voting outside of the season as well - there's a difference between preservation of the law and foolishness.
I agree with Quintus Fulvius, since I presume he meant "change" in the sense of having the courage to improve. That's always been our strong point
I do not believe it would be correct politically or indeed practically if the victorious General needs to return to Roma in order to request to return to Roma in triumph. Corlucius smiled.
This random smiling has got to stop, if anything we should have a emergency session just for that.
"Indeed you are right, Decimus Cornelius. One would think it is all fun and games to be a senator. Quite frankly, I find most of it insincere and disturbing, as if they had suffered a blow to the head and were now rendered a drooling fool."
Several gasps of surprise and wonder echoed throughout the chamber as everyone began to realize the two executive officers of the Legio III Campania were in the chamber. Quintus Valerius stood and hurried down to greet his benefactor, briefing him on the goings on while he had been fighting in Illyria Hellenike. Tiberius Claudius Marcellus nodded at what he was hearing; but stopped his aide when he heard what had transpired between Caius the Fat and Balbatus. He was visibly saddened to hear the final outcome of his friend's unwavering loyalty. A moment later, a firm sense of resolution set itself upon Claudius' face. He asked his aide to place any pressing documents on his desk and thanked him for his vigilant work.
"Men of Roma, the Legio III Campania has reached our homeland and is undergoing final refitting and supply acquisition before we continue southward towards Rhegion. We shall deal with these rebellious farmers who have so dastardly laid low Consul, Dux Publius Atilius Regulus. Fear not, the brigands will all be executed and their bodies left to rot in the fields as a warning to all who would seek to emulate them.
"At this time, I wish to congratulate Quaestor Caius Aurelius Cotta for his hard work and numerous victories. His slaying of Pyrrhus Anax is a great boon for the Res Publica and a testament to his abilities as a commander. I will agree to vote in favour of the Triumphus he has requested. I must, however make note, publicly, that for all he has accomplished, the Quaestor seems to be taking reckless chances with the men of his command. Not only has he stretched out his legion across the province of Illyria Hellenike; but he infliltrated enemy home territory with inappropriately few numbers, and then earlier this season fought another battle when outnumbered and, though victorious, suffered fifty percent casualties.
"As I have argued many times regarding the character of this man, Caius Aurelius Cotta, I must say again that he is seeking power, fame, and glory for himself and is stacking the bodies of fallen Roman soldiers under his command as a ladder to reach great heights! He is needlessly reckless, and I shall ask the senate to consider limiting the merit of defeating small numbers of the enemy when considering promotions, etc."
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Tiberius Claudius took his usual seat and begins looking over some documents that had been handed to him, eagerly awaiting the supporters of the Quaestor to jump into the fray.
Exomnivs spoke
Tiberivs Clavdivs Marcellvs, you are indeed correct. While the Quaster does deserve his Trivmphvs, he should not be encouraged in his reckless behavior. With Phyrrhvs slain and the armies of Epirvs defeated, the time has come to force a truce upon our foes. We can enact a hefty tribute from the Epirotes. This, along with the mighty industry that Illyria has to offer, can be used to bolster our efforts in fighting the Carthaginians.
Exomnivs cleared his throat before continuing
I put this charge before the Senators now: If anyone should oppose peace with the Epirotes, he will have shown his true colors as an oportunistic general, prolonging this war for his own gain at the Republic's expense!
Tiberius Claudius stands and applauds deliberately and slowly, raising his voice to reach the back rows of the audience he is addressing,
"Senator Exominus is bold in his declaration, yet he couldn't have stated the situation any more concisely."
Turning to face the legislator he said,
"You are most wise to not only realize this truth about the Quaestor; but to have the courage, the noblest of Roman virtues, to acknowledge it publicly. Legatus Sextus Cornelius Scapula is a lucky man to have such a friend in you. It would be an honor to discuss matters of the law with you at the Villa Claudia with other men of like mind. My aide Quintus Valerius will deliver the invitation to your residence."
Spinning around to once again address the body of learned men, Claudius returned to the topic at hand,
"Peace with the Epirotes is feasible at this time. As part of the terms I suggest that we envelop the province of Epeiros and install a client ruler in Ambrakia who will help Quaestor Caius Aurelius govern more effectively since he will be a local man, with a disposition that is favourable to our plans for the region. With any remaining Epirote provinces serving as a buffer between the Res Publica and the Makedonians and Koinon Hellenon, as well as the barbarous Getai, we will in turn be able to throw the full might of our Legios against the Poeni."
Corlucius stands wearily, his old body creaking and groaning.
Courage? Indeed, it is couragous to talk about the Quaestor in such ways when he is not here to defend himself.
I agree with tiberius, the Epirotes are beaten there is no reason to continue a fight that is already done with.
However I would like to say that perhaps Caius Aurelius should be spending less time running around Illyria and greece picking fights with Epirotes, and more time actualy ruling his province! hmmm, perhaps we shouldnt install a client ruler, make Caius do all the work and hopefully keep him out of our hair!
"I second that suggestion. Client rulers are not to be trusted. Caius Aurelius conquered us a new province, let him worry about governing it aswel. With a soon to be ceasefire with Epeirus, he'll have to settle down to govern.
Let us hope that the discussions in the Senate settle down aswel after that."
Yes. Why give Epeiros back to an Epeirote client king and Illyria to an Illyrian, when we have our own able men.
Decimvs Cornelivs scapvla entered the chamber and sat listeningl. after a while he rose...
Senatores, I served in the past as a tribune protecting Italia from Brigands and other threats. I now am preparing to do so again. I am ready to become a Tribune once more and defend Rome from her Enemies.
Good luck, tribune
(continues in OOC thread)
to TCM below: your posts are always flawless :)
OOC: Mini, thank you for the compliment.
Re: use of Roman names - you are absolutely correct, though I would ammend that when writing of yourself in the third person, it is acceptable to use your Cognomen (the last name: Tiberius Claudius Marcellus) as that was often used between close friends and relatives. Even husbands and wives usually referred to themselves and each other with the Nomen or Cognomen instead of their Praenomen.
Re: your RP suggestions - Why "bold" what your character says? The visual difference between speech and italicized thoughts/actions is clear enough. Your suggestions to use parentheses are also contrary to the rules governing the traditional use of American English. It is simply proper enough to use quotations ( " ") for speech and italics (like this) for actions and thoughts. 13 years of schooling plus college has ingrained this process into my mind too well.
A messenger arrives from Illyria.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Sirs, a message from Caivs Avrelivs Cotta:
Quote:
I have received word of the reaction to my patrols in Epirite land. My efforts and those of the few men I took with me were entirely legal and well intentioned, and indeed were practical and victorious. A small raid, and the enemy of Roma is dead.
However, Epirus is not finished, not one bit. Ambrakia fills more and more with Royal troops and elite soldiers, while large Epirite forces still reside in Makedonia and Byzantion. However, I feel we can deliver a killer blow with the capture of the Epirite homeland, and installing border forts at the mountain passes to resist any counter attacks from Makedonia. The Second is well equiped and rested. The original time as governer of Illyira Hellenike is near conclusion. Allow me to deal this blow our hated enemy, and install me as governer of Epirus in Roma's stead. I will then stay in Epirus; no more raids led by me into enemy territory. The Legio II can be used to protect the provinces borders and the mountain passes. It is my responsibility as conquerer of these new provinces to then govern them as a man of Roma.
The province of Illyria Hellenike can be added to the governership of Epirus and given to an aide, or kept seperate. It would however be more economical to join them.
I leave this open to discussion. Please allow me to know of your joint answer soon, Senators.