Like, believe me I very much want Hally to be a wolf because I'd be so proud of my day 1 for picking up on it, fighting through suspicion for thinking it, and working it out. I just don't currently think it's the case.
07-27-2022, 20:34
Zack
Re: Casual 9er Game Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbae
I think the way I'd say my current thoughts are: It's been floated a couple of times this game that "oh that solve is too easy" but, in the world where that solve is correct what else but this would the game look like? You have this core of Me/Ender/Hally/Neb/Zack that took hard looks at portions of that group, tried to make the arguments that wolves existed in there, and couldn't come up with any substantive arguments that felt right. It's not like we all just *wanted to villa read each other and are hoping it's right*. We fought, grilled each other, responded, worked through pairings, and came to the conclusion that we don't think the wolves are in there. We *wanted there to be wolves in there and have determined it's likely not the case*.
In essence, a group of likely villagers played well and found each other through confrontation + logic + working with each other as the game progressed and all kind of came to the conclusion that the most likely answer is just Mont/Barto. That's not "defaulting and feel bad". That's just how the game's played out.
cold open on the episode starting with this post
"The Gang Misyeets Zack" title card displays as the It's Always Sunny theme starts playing
07-27-2022, 20:36
Zack
Re: Casual 9er Game Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbae
Like, believe me I very much want Hally to be a wolf because I'd be so proud of my day 1 for picking up on it, fighting through suspicion for thinking it, and working it out. I just don't currently think it's the case.
I'm sorry if you already covered this but what solidified you on Hally being a villa vs thinking they were a wolf day 1?
07-27-2022, 20:44
Sunbae
Re: Casual 9er Game Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack
I'm sorry if you already covered this but what solidified you on Hally being a villa vs thinking they were a wolf day 1?
Combo of working through pairs, other peoples reads, the sheer audacity some of the posts would need in order to be wolf, the fact that hally has been consistently appearing to try and figure out alignments
07-27-2022, 20:50
Zack
Re: Casual 9er Game Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbae
Combo of working through pairs, other peoples reads, the sheer audacity some of the posts would need in order to be wolf, the fact that hally has been consistently appearing to try and figure out alignments
gotcha, just double-checking you could back up the :argue: --> :love: progression with actual reasons. still a bit wary it's a "they're probably not lunchable anymore" thing but cest la vie.
07-27-2022, 20:50
Zack
Re: Casual 9er Game Thread
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
or a "you're actually w/w and it was all theater and that's why you switched to vulgard and are townreading each other day 2" thing :creep:
07-27-2022, 20:54
Zack
Re: Casual 9er Game Thread
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
and "rask was causing problems for us while benneh/zack weren't" :creep:
... I'm going to read back one sec
07-27-2022, 20:59
nebjiamn
Re: Casual 9er Game Thread
hmmyes
07-27-2022, 21:03
Sunbae
Re: Casual 9er Game Thread
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
If we're playing the "if im a wolf my partner is x" game, pretty sure mine would either be Hally or Ender depending on whether I went for distancing or clear each other routes
07-27-2022, 21:03
Zack
Re: Casual 9er Game Thread
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbae
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand why Hally is a wolf. The humour is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical RP most of the jokes will go over a typical poster's head. There's also Hally's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into their characterisation- their personal mafia philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The MU elite understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realise that they're not just funny- they say something deep about MAFIA. As a consequence people who are confused by Hally truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Hally's existential catchphrase "NO BULLI" which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Hally's genius wit unfolds itself on their computer screens. What fools.. how I pity them. ?
And yes, by the way, i DO have a buttercup tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the champs finalists' eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack
i thought hally's reaction to me was lightly villagy, but you're right, i should keep my vote. :thumbsup:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbae
Like, obviously i'm memeing for the lolz (i am firmly on "i dont care anymore, gonna have fun SHOTS" on the chart atm) but if I wanna drop it for a sec i actually think hally is wolfy and i want to see if you picked up on why
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack
mum said its your turn to be bad cop
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbae
:whip:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hally
wtf you?re not supposed to wolf read me until EoD
no head starts!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbae
its because
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
peepeepoopoo
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
just dont like the way they've turned the whole "thought barto was wolfy, thought about voting him before the rp realization" into shade on mont while also defending themselves by saying they never pushed barto but also found him wolfy but its also nai now but also its kinda villagery. think it has w/w equity even!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbae
also im low key mad hally didnt enjoy my pastas and will respond with a wolf read
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbae
"do it, cowards" didn't work out as well as i hoped in that turbo so dont tempt the fates with "cfd me like a man" lmao
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hally
wat?
i didn?t shade monty, i asked him questions, expressed confusion about his read and ended by saying he might be villagery
and i didn?t defend myself by saying i never pushed barto, i said i never pushed monty
i also never said barto was kinda villagery, i just disagreed with wolf reading him. monty was who i said might be villagery, not barto. barto is null to me.
i don?t think anything you said in this post is an accurate characterization of what i?ve posted lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hally
i thanked the terminator one!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbae
gonna be honest, i didn't have "lol nothing you said is accurate" to be the response and i dont really know what to do with that so ill just shrug and move on
apparently there's a limit for multi-quotes on the org, had to go back and un-select everything to get more, what a pita.
This actually did seem plausibly aligned theater looking back on it, up until about where Hally seemed legitimately affronted by the read and sunbae backed off.
v/v or hally w/sunbae v: these don't really need explanation or analysis, in these worlds it is just exactly as it appears.
sunbae w, hally v: Sunbae tried to pocket me by jumping on hally, I didn't respond the way he expected then Hally roasted him so he backed off and moved on.
w/w: It was intended to be theater and a pocket on me, I guess? It's theoretically even possible that it wasn't coordinated in wolf chat, and what Sunbae intended as some light very early distancing elicited a much stronger reactino from his partner than anticipated and he didn't konw how respond. Don't think I really buy this being a thing.
07-27-2022, 21:06
Zack
Re: Casual 9er Game Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack
:beatnik:
is it something to with the way they've talked about barto? I don't generally care for these kind of guessing games (for various reasons)
uh I guess this got lost in the MQ software somewhere, but it's important context before "its because [wolfread in spoilers]"
07-27-2022, 21:10
Zack
Re: Casual 9er Game Thread
Sunbae making his way off Hally onto Vulgard seems plausible as either genuine or as a show, really.
but I think the way he came back to try and put hally back on the table before that is unlikely as w/w when you've got a strong team like that. It's possible he did it to get villa read and didn't expect the wagon to actually take off (so then shifted to vulgard) but idk, you can fit a narrative like that around almost anything if you want and that feels more like looking for a zebra than a horse, as benneh said earlier.
07-27-2022, 21:43
Hally
Re: Casual 9er Game Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbae
I'm going to take a moment to just flesh out thoughts here:
- There are 7 of us left and I think I can remove quite a few w/w pairings. I don't think Benneh/Hally, Benneh/Zack, Ender/Hally, Ender/Zack, Hally/Barto, Hally/Mont, or Mont/Zack work.
Leaves me with Barto/Benneh, Barto/Ender, Barto/Mont, Barto/Zack, Benneh/Ender, Benneh/Mont, Ender/Mont, Hally/Zack
- Of these pairs, the ones I can see things as "possibly w/w" instead of just "not not w/w" if that makes sense are:
Barto/Benneh: Barto's fixation on Benneh vanity wagon while villagers are going at each other throughout the day + Benneh's calling it out near eod while the clock is winding down.
Barto/Ender: Ender has a few small defenses of Barto in relation to wolf pushes, like while Vulgard is getting wagoned and the thread thinks he's a wolf, saying "don't think vulgard/barto are w/w" as well as adding him to the no blast zone today.
Barto/Mont: The way Mont calls Barto's opening wolfy and but then uses it to try and vote me for Barto's way he talked to me and shade Zack for not catching that Barto is iffy already.
Hally/Zack: The way Hally has shifted from defending Zack to Ender (in relation to Neb) to shading Zack once Neb came in being concerned about Zack too and the way Zack didn't really want to engage me for a bit on Hally early.
- Using peoples posts in isolation, I don't think Ender is a wolf. I don't really thiiiink benneh is one either (talked about that a bit ago). I'm also not really sure I have Hally as a wolf (have talked about this a lot).
I think I want to just call the wolf team Mont/Barto
i don?t really disagree with ruling out any of the pairs you ruled out sunbae
not sure what that?s worth given half of them include me lol
07-27-2022, 21:53
Hally
Re: Casual 9er Game Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by nebjiamn
just considering all avenues. hallys top poster and most of her posts sound very good. i think game solve wise i think their pov makes most sense to me esp in comparison to you and sunbae. i have lots of reasons to read her well and above monty and barto and i obviously still think you have a good amount of w equity (though i would not lump you in the same category of me having lots of reasons to v read hally over you, i just kinda think you fit the wolf mold well with how the game has played out (i realize this is a silly metric that may not make sense but im going with it since its the theme of the post (idk what im doing dog.jpeg)))
some lingering doubts about sunbae and ender. moreso ender because i feel like ender may have slipped through a blindspot for me because he's felt different from sorc game but i may have given that too much credence since the context of how ender's posted is obviously very different to the dynamic there was on sorc for lots of reasons
i guess in other words:
i villa read sunbae quite a bit but always acknowledge he has wolf potential cause he's just super good at fooling me
i villa read hally quite a bit, i also acknowledge she has wolf potential cause she's super good at fooling me too but i think the totality of her posting has me pushing her up a little higher as game/day has gone on
i kinda villa read ender based off game/threadstate vibes and posts but i don't have a super substantive read on his posts even though i certainly could/should based on his volume and content
i kinda wolf read monty and barto based off game/threadstate vibes and posts but i don't feel like i CAN get a truly confident substantive read on their posts based on volume and content, other than a few of their wolfy statements/positions on the game ('vulgard was the most obviously villagery player itt' & 'nebjiamn never took a stance' while never taking a stance and misremembering a stance was taken) which also feels a bit nonsensical for wolves to do
and i kinda wolf read you based off game/threadstate vibes and posts cause it feels like in relation to the non-monty/barto posters you seem the most ... uninhibited/lacking concern about trying to solve today. whch i acknowledge could very well be because you are coming to the same conclusion as hally/sunbae that it could be a rather boring team of barto/monty and maybe you dont feel great about that or feel the need to dig in much deeper than you have already today but its just kinda how my reads end up?
i realize this turned from a "why hally #1" to a whole thing but ya
"if hally decided to tryhard as w in a casual game then so be it" --me, a few hours ago probably
good post
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
fwiw i don’t feel like i’ve tried particularly hard this game
a lot of my postcount is a product of defending myself against everyone itg wolf reading me but in terms of actual solving effort i think i’m pretty even with y’all
07-27-2022, 21:59
Hally
Re: Casual 9er Game Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack
Sunbae making his way off Hally onto Vulgard seems plausible as either genuine or as a show, really.
but I think the way he came back to try and put hally back on the table before that is unlikely as w/w when you've got a strong team like that. It's possible he did it to get villa read and didn't expect the wagon to actually take off (so then shifted to vulgard) but idk, you can fit a narrative like that around almost anything if you want and that feels more like looking for a zebra than a horse, as benneh said earlier.
might be nothing but this sequence makes me :stare:
07-27-2022, 22:25
Hally
Re: Casual 9er Game Thread
trying to see if i can articulate why i think ender is a villager
it’s something like, uh… he feels disconnected from what the rest of the thread is doing?
like, D1 sunbae and me got a lot of flack but ender didn’t make a move towards either of us. he strongly town read sunbae and seemed uninterested in suspecting me. instead he was over on zack for “gut” or something, and it’s like… why? if he wanted to push on one of the big names the gamestate was ripe for him to go in on me or sunbae but instead he went for zack who nobody was interested in and he didn’t even try to milk it to look villagery, he just plopped his read in the thread and that was it. he also hasn’t made a move to mont or bart despite them being the easiest pushes itg. buzzword but i don’t really see the agenda to it. feels more like a villager who is content to have his reads and doesn’t care what anyone else is doing.
i acknowledge this is a pretty nebulous reason to v read him but i do feel pretty okay about it? obviously somewhat dependent on who his partner is if he’s a wolf but yeah
07-27-2022, 22:37
Sunbae
Re: Casual 9er Game Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hally
i don?t really disagree with ruling out any of the pairs you ruled out sunbae
not sure what that?s worth given half of them include me lol
Ok, so then why are you concerned that it's just too easy? Like this isn't a big mash or anything. It's a small 9er and these are usually solved just by some combo of POE and worldbuilding.
I could maybe see the argument that the most ABC vote is just barto since I have them in more "actively w/w" pairs but, frankly, I just think that Monty is the wolfiest poster in the game and want to chop there.
07-27-2022, 22:39
Sunbae
Re: Casual 9er Game Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hally
trying to see if i can articulate why i think ender is a villager
it’s something like, uh… he feels disconnected from what the rest of the thread is doing?
like, D1 sunbae and me got a lot of flack but ender didn’t make a move towards either of us. he strongly town read sunbae and seemed uninterested in suspecting me. instead he was over on zack for “gut” or something, and it’s like… why? if he wanted to push on one of the big names the gamestate was ripe for him to go in on me or sunbae but instead he went for zack who nobody was interested in and he didn’t even try to milk it to look villagery, he just plopped his read in the thread and that was it. he also hasn’t made a move to mont or bart despite them being the easiest pushes itg. buzzword but i don’t really see the agenda to it. feels more like a villager who is content to have his reads and doesn’t care what anyone else is doing.
i acknowledge this is a pretty nebulous reason to v read him but i do feel pretty okay about it? obviously somewhat dependent on who his partner is if he’s a wolf but yeah
My reason for villa reading ender is that when he was a wolf I was able to look at his posts at some point and say "i can see what he's doing if he's a wolf" and this game I don't know what he's doing if he's a wolf. In terms of like, general thread positioning and attempts to kill/protect others.
07-27-2022, 22:41
Hally
Re: Casual 9er Game Thread
i know i’ve talked about it a lot and you guys are sick of hearing about it but why does a bart/mont team kill rask?
i get there are levels to it and i don’t wanna claim to know what either of them would do as wolves but rask seems like a particularly bad kill for them? he was 1) at least somewhat lunchable, 2) tunneling a villager who was the cw to the D1 mislunch and 2) the only one to town read bart D1
i don’t see what that kill accomplishes for them by any metric really?
07-27-2022, 22:43
Sunbae
Re: Casual 9er Game Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack
Sunbae making his way off Hally onto Vulgard seems plausible as either genuine or as a show, really.
but I think the way he came back to try and put hally back on the table before that is unlikely as w/w when you've got a strong team like that. It's possible he did it to get villa read and didn't expect the wagon to actually take off (so then shifted to vulgard) but idk, you can fit a narrative like that around almost anything if you want and that feels more like looking for a zebra than a horse, as benneh said earlier.
If it makes you feel better, you can tell I'm a villager because I have not attempted to pocket anyone nor use my villa cred to either attack someone else nor defend anyone. I'm not trying to convince anyone to do anything. I'm just saying my thoughts and being cool with it.
07-27-2022, 22:44
Hally
Re: Casual 9er Game Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbae
My reason for villa reading ender is that when he was a wolf I was able to look at his posts at some point and say "i can see what he's doing if he's a wolf" and this game I don't know what he's doing if he's a wolf. In terms of like, general thread positioning and attempts to kill/protect others.
alright, we’re on the same page then so that’s good
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
unless you’re w/w :stare:
07-27-2022, 22:48
Sunbae
Re: Casual 9er Game Thread
I thought about the kill briefly. Realized there were too many factors for me to come with anything concrete from it (even mentioned I was going to ignore it). Maybe Rask died due to history with a wolf, maybe Rask died for pushing you and I'm silly, maybe it was a widely villa read thing, maybe everyone else had more suspicion on them at some point. Not really for me to know and I decided to just read people based on their posting or interactions.
maybe it was a "that group of 4 seems primed to go at each other lets no break it up" thing
maybe there's not a master plan and wolf chat is just "who do we kill?" "idk rask?" "ya alright, so anyways did you see the new thor movie yet?"
07-27-2022, 22:54
Sunbae
Re: Casual 9er Game Thread
Like, I guess my thing is "if you want to say 'oh idk if mont is a wolf because why would kill rask' then take it to the next level for me and tell me who WOULD kill rask"
cause right now i think my current plan of "thats a kill that happened, moving on" is ideal but I can at least listen to what you have to say
07-27-2022, 22:55
Zack
Re: Casual 9er Game Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbae
If it makes you feel better, you can tell I'm a villager because I have not attempted to pocket anyone nor use my villa cred to either attack someone else nor defend anyone. I'm not trying to convince anyone to do anything. I'm just saying my thoughts and being cool with it.
:stare:
07-27-2022, 22:55
Zack
Re: Casual 9er Game Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbae
I thought about the kill briefly. Realized there were too many factors for me to come with anything concrete from it (even mentioned I was going to ignore it). Maybe Rask died due to history with a wolf, maybe Rask died for pushing you and I'm silly, maybe it was a widely villa read thing, maybe everyone else had more suspicion on them at some point. Not really for me to know and I decided to just read people based on their posting or interactions.
me: tells people exactly the difference between my wolf/villager approaches
people: never believes me
me: *flips villager*
people: shocked pikachu
07-27-2022, 23:02
Montmorency
Re: Casual 9er Game Thread
Can't say my head space has expanded much since mid-D1. Time's up for Barto, he's been squarely within his mafia range the whole time. Hally might be more sus than Sunbae. I don't like taking the easy route of eliminating Barto first, since there's a lot of risk that there's few associations to find, and frankly he's a less-dangerous endgame prospect; order of operations influences my approach.
Now, the interactions between Sunbae and Hally being premeditated can't be dismissed, and I would give the pairing more review in a larger game, but for the sake of a mini I choose to believe a two-maf team wouldn't approach the game like this from early D1, in almost all worlds.
I don't have much either good or bad* to say about the rest, so it's a Barto-Hally TDome. (but Bart-Neb disclusive)
