The Settlement [Concluded]

I think there are two possibilities:

1) Yoyoma1910 is mafia and got blocked N1 and 3 and killed N2
2) Townie network is infiltrated (oh, what a surprise :rolleyes:) and the information provided there has been used to frame Yoyoma1910

Yes...Andres is still the best lynch. The endgame scenario + possibly doctored role pm. Sorry.

Andres should go.

He's an admitted serial killer, and he's targeting the Good Men, when we could easily investigate them instead, and use the Good Men's votes for..... Good.

I'm a freakin' oppressed poor man and I still say that this whole social class rivalry is just designed to throw us off. You have likely mafia in the Men and the Good Men, but there's fewer of them left and we can check them out one by one.

I haven't revealed the bulk of my knowledge to anyone. If there is a leak in the pro-town network, it's Sasaki or my partner, and I haven't told Sasaki half of the information I do know.

Why is there a pro-town network to begin with??!?!?!

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Why is there a pro-town network to begin with??!?!?!

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Despite the warnings, people keep sending information :shrug:

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Why is there a pro-town network to begin with??!?!?!

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GH.....is your info, reliable?:inquisitive: or did you give it to the doomed network?:wall:

Of course not, I kept my Treasure Chest O'Awesome to myself.

-edit- And why did I do this?

Because I remember the pro-town group in Stig's Beer Salesmen game being infiltrated.
Because I remember the pro-town group in Capo II being infiltrated.
Because I remember the pro-town group in Netherworld being infiltrated.
Because I remember the pro-town group in Midgard II being infiltrated.

There are probably a few I forgot, but you see the general trend, I'm sure. :2thumbsup:

-edit2- Screw it, let's go in full vent mode.

Reenk said in the thread that he specifically used the Midgard games as an inspiration. He even resurrected the Midgard II thread when he came back on the .Org specifically to comment on it. Sigurd gave the Jotun in Midgard II cover PMs. This game might as well be called Midgard 2.5 for all I'm concerned. Anybody who doesn't believe for a second that Reenk didn't do the same, especially in a game of this complexity, is using incredibly naive reasoning. Which means that somewhere down the line, Pizza & co. are going to vouch for a guilty person because he sent along his cover role, or Pizza & co. itself is going to be compromised because they let somebody in that had a good cover role.

Argh, history repeating itself is never fun to watch. The idea of a pro-town network in any game needs to die an extremely horrible death. :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:

Then I guess FactionHeir is up for lynching next....:shrug:

So, you guys are going to lynch an already exposed and thus incapacitated killer who will no longer be able to kill for the remainder of the game, unless when ordered to do so by the town instead of Yoyoma who was blocked on the nights that there were 2 kills and not on the night there were 3 kills?

:inquisitive:

EDIT: I came up with my real role pm because my intentions are honest. Well I didn't really reveal out of honesty, but was forced to, but my intentions are sincere :shrug: I share a common goal with the town and can be of use in a worst case scenario to kill off a possible mafia good man.

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Originally Posted by Andres

So, you guys are going to lynch an already exposed and thus incapacitated killer who will no longer be able to kill for the remainder of the game, unless when ordered to do so by the town instead of Yoyoma who was blocked on the nights that there were 2 kills and not on the night there were 3 kills?

:inquisitive:

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You sound exactly like your mafia self andres...

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EDIT: I came up with my real role pm because my intentions are honest. Well I didn't really reveal out of honesty, but was forced to, but my intentions are sincere :shrug: I share a common goal with the town and can be of use in a worst case scenario to kill off a possible mafia good man.

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Were you provided with a cover role pm? Let's see it...

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Originally Posted by GeneralHankerchief

Of course not, I kept my Treasure Chest O'Awesome to myself.

-edit- And why did I do this?

Because I remember the pro-town group in Stig's Beer Salesmen game being infiltrated.
Because I remember the pro-town group in Capo II being infiltrated.
Because I remember the pro-town group in Netherworld being infiltrated.
Because I remember the pro-town group in Midgard II being infiltrated.

There are probably a few I forgot, but you see the general trend, I'm sure. :2thumbsup:

-edit2- Screw it, let's go in full vent mode.

Reenk said in the thread that he specifically used the Midgard games as an inspiration. He even resurrected the Midgard II thread when he came back on the .Org specifically to comment on it. Sigurd gave the Jotun in Midgard II cover PMs. This game might as well be called Midgard 2.5 for all I'm concerned. Anybody who doesn't believe for a second that Reenk didn't do the same, especially in a game of this complexity, is using incredibly naive reasoning. Which means that somewhere down the line, Pizza & co. are going to vouch for a guilty person because he sent along his cover role, or Pizza & co. itself is going to be compromised because they let somebody in that had a good cover role.

Argh, history repeating itself is never fun to watch. The idea of a pro-town network in any game needs to die an extremely horrible death. :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:

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They can still be used. Probably best as a "canary" trap sort of thing, though. Pro-town networking CAN be infiltrated and there are numerous examples pointing this out (as you noted).

Andres, it would appear that your deal is not yet accepted. Yoyo and FH will obviously be facing some discussion, but the lethality of your role makes it hard for us not to take the easy choice with you -- even if you are completely honest and open with your reveal.

Don't worry......blocker could just get Yoyoma blocked again tonight, to be sure..:book:

Yeah, you guys are right. Pro-town networks are dumb.

That's why Masons shouldn't exist. If we have Masons, that's bad for town. There is no sense in having confirmed townies share information between one another.

:wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:

I've told Sasaki basic information, and kept the majority of the roles between myself and my partner who should be exposed this round or next.

Seriously, what the heck else are Masons supposed to do? Sit around and wait to die?

Here's my cover pm:

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Originally Posted by Reenk Roink

Hello Andres, thanks for playing :bow:

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Much of the information contained in this message is not necessarily true and not available in all locations and valid for a limited time only.

:stupido: You

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You are a Merchant

Background:

You have made your living by selling your products to other people who either do not need them or would be better off buying other products.

However, life for a merchant is tough in the big city with all the competition, which leads to drama, then politics, then violence. Because of this you got together with a few of your merchant acquaintances to decide what to do next.

Common sense eventually dictated that you all go find new settlements to live in. This way there would be less competition leading to more demand leading to more profit. You all agreed to follow this plan; all but one.

One among you decided instead to write a book about this plan and submit it to the local priest king. The priest king was so impressed by this plan’s applicability that he elevated the author to the chief administrative office and declared that he had invented a new science called Economics.

Somewhat jealous at your acquaintance’s newfound success, you nevertheless are optimistic at testing the unsaturated markets of the new settlements.

Battle Rating:

4 – At first sight, it appears that you have not done much in the way of physical exertion and are as soft as the silk sheet you sell. However, you picked up a thing or two from the mercenaries escorting trade caravans and under the fat and the fancy clothes hides a man capable of defending himself.

Victory Conditions:

Outlast the usurpers (settler victory)

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4 – At first sight, it appears that you have not done much in the way of physical exertion and are as soft as the silk sheet you sell. However, you picked up a thing or two from the mercenaries escorting trade caravans and under the fat and the fancy clothes hides a man capable of defending himself.

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??? I don't buy it.....even Ares didn't have his greetings in it:book:

Edit: He shouldn't have a battle rating that high either.....man is that forged...:no:

That's not the standard cover role PM, but that doesn't mean it couldn't still be legitimate.

All this whining over the "pro-town network" which is comprised of the MURDERED and completely innocent Sasaki Kojiro, myself, a dead mason, and my partner, a mason, is ludicrous. I've shared information with no one else, and I've gotten info from half the town.

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

You sound exactly like your mafia self andres...

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Yeah, and you also know about Andres and loyalty. I propose an alliance with town. As far as I know, I've never broken an alliance in a mafia game.

In Capo II, I could have easily betray the Stracci family and continue the game with Louis (which was his initial plan, he was my 'buddy'). I didn't, out of loyalty to my teammates.

In this game, I'm solo and I offer an alliance. You know how valid my word is, even in these games of lies and deception.

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Originally Posted by White_eyes:D

??? I don't buy it.....even Ares didn't have his greetings in it:book:

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Yeah, mine is a genuine cover pm. Did you really think I could have made that one up within the time between Sasaki's post and mine?

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

All this whining over the "pro-town network" which is comprised of the MURDERED and completely innocent Sasaki Kojiro, myself, a dead mason, and my partner, a mason, is ludicrous. I've shared information with no one else, and I've gotten info from half the town.

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Pull the other one.

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Originally Posted by Andres

Yeah, and you also know about Andres and loyalty. I propose an alliance with town. As far as I know, I've never broken an alliance in a mafia game.

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Let's see... Crazed Rabbit used his "Truth" reputation to win a mafia game. I used my reputation as "always pro-town, as host, as neutral, even as mafia" (ludicrous) to stay alive in the You Can't Win game, then I backstabbed all of you and joined Andres. Andres now says "trust me, I won't let you down", in a game of guile and deceit. :laugh2:

I find that quite amusing. :smash:

Woohoo! The mafia wasted a kill... sucker :2thumbsup: They targetted little weak me instead of killing other potentially pro-town roles. w00t!

I suggest we lynch FH, cos Andres would act as a check on the Good Men's power.

*ghost fades into the background*

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

That's not the standard cover role PM, but that doesn't mean it couldn't still be legitimate.

All this whining over the "pro-town network" which is comprised of the MURDERED and completely innocent Sasaki Kojiro, myself, a dead mason, and my partner, a mason, is ludicrous. I've shared information with no one else, and I've gotten info from half the town.

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:no::no::no::no::no: I have a bad feeling about Sasaki.....which is..."don't trust him, as far as you can throw him":wink:

Why just Sasaki? Plenty of others have been killed and should also be COMPLETELY INNOCENT.

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

Let's see... Crazed Rabbit used his "Truth" reputation to win a mafia game. I used my reputation as "always pro-town, as host, as neutral, even as mafia" (ludicrous) to stay alive in the You Can't Win game, then I backstabbed all of you and joined Andres. Andres now says "trust me, I won't let you down", in a game of guile and deceit. :laugh2:

I find that quite amusing. :smash:

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I think I deserve the reputation of never ever having let my allies down in mafia. There has not been a single mafia game where I backstabbed my allies.

I offer town an alliance in return for my survival. It's up to you guys to accept or to waste my abilities.

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Originally Posted by White_eyes:D

??? I don't buy it.....even Ares didn't have his greetings in it:book:

Edit: He shouldn't have a battle rating that high either.....man is that forged...:no:

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Mine has greetings in it. I would suppose its actually wierd that yours doesn't.

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Originally Posted by White_eyes:D

??? I don't buy it.....even Ares didn't have his greetings in it:book:

Edit: He shouldn't have a battle rating that high either.....man is that forged...:no:

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4 apparently is pretty high (says the Priest King) and my PM had a greetings in it :book:

Edit: I totally misread the quote... foolish foolish me... IGNORE THIS

The fewer people are trusted, the better. Information can only flow in one direction for the masons to be effective.

And who is to say I haven't been feeding Sasaki false information to see if he is loyal to us or not?

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Originally Posted by Jolt

Mine has greetings in it. I would suppose its actually wierd that yours doesn't.

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:inquisitive::inquisitive::inquisitive:I posted mine WAY earlier....I EVEN pointed out the fact, that Ares didn't have his before Sasaki did, leading us to think it must have been fake.....:book:

Complete trust? In a non-standard mafia game? Not gonna happen. Do we believe Sasaki is an innocent -- yes. Are we 100% certain -- no. We don't know ALL of his objectives. Andres' reveal could be 100% true (the cover looks right, as does the humor in it). But his objectives make it very clear that 100% innocence is not a guarantee. Reenk seems to like to lemonade -- there's always a bit of bite to go along with the sweet.

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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy

And who is to say I haven't been feeding Sasaki false information to see if he is loyal to us or not?

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I think you underestimate Sasaki to your peril. He is one of the best mafia players hands down. The first evidence that you would receive that Sasaki was playing you was when the game host posted that he had won the game and you had lost.