Are you a virgin?

So uhh anyone heard back from ajaxfetish yet? :grin2:

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Uhm no. What she says is that they have to realize how their actions are viewed by other people, and that some groups of people view certain actions differently than other groups of people. She doesn't say that women should stop inviting people home, she says that if you invite this and this person home, you should be aware that he might read more into it than that person over there.

And "not a perfect translation" is the understatement of the year. Complete forgery is a better term.

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"I don't want to put the blame of these rapes on the women. But norwegian women needs to realize that we're living in a multicultural society, and adopt accordingly"

pretty obvious, it's right there Horetore. Now what do we really have here, where is the part of people from other culture's having to learn how things go in Norway, no it's exactly the other way around, how they experience it is treated as something that cannot be changed, they see it like that, basta. Where is the part about import having to adapt to that multiculture thingie where Norwegian women behave in a certain way. I don't think that even crossed her mind, new circumstances learn to live with it.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

"I don't want to put the blame of these rapes on the women. But norwegian women needs to realize that we're living in a multicultural society, and adopt accordingly"

pretty obvious, it's right there Horetore. Now what do we really have here, where is the part of people from other culture's having to learn how things go in Norway, no it's exactly the other way around, how they experience it is treated as something that cannot be changed, they see it like that, basta. Where is the part about import having to adapt to that multiculture thingie where Norwegian women behave in a certain way. I don't think that even crossed her mind, new circumstances learn to live with it.

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Nope, her view is that while we are working to change their views(integration), we need to realize that they don't have the same view as we do, and act accordingly.

In other words, integration is the goal, but until that goal is met, we have to find a way to live in peace with each other.

And yes, it is true. We have to know how other people react to what we do. Whether that guy is a loud, brutal and arrogant man from Bergen or a muslim man not used to women not wearing a burka. We are working to change both the arrogance from the bergensers, and the sexual views of the muslims, but until that has changed, we have to know how they react to what they do, and yes, adopt accordingly. Just like we have to in every other field in society.

Full immigrationstop would be a start we can't feed the whole world.

Thats why they come here get a job and start feeding themselves.

But what I am saying is that multiculturalists are like all other extremists that only respect their own silly ideals.

you make it sound like santa or some belief system, i live in a multicultural society and so do you!

Do you mean the people who say mutliculturalism can work are the extremists ?

I would say they are right, of course there are crimes committed by very few of those immigrants and some of them bring views which are slightly different to our norm over here, the vast majority adapt and contribute to society, why just immigrants have this applied to them, did you now alot more working class commit crimes than middle class, for some reason the trash dailys don't seem to throw the same insulting titles out at the working class.

There's a difference between setting up a coffee shop and starting honour killings, which are a problem in our big cities now.

Yes one is something we can encourage and the other is something we work to stamp out with the law on our side, seen as honour killings are usually immigrant on immigrant anyway does it make that much of a difference to our country ?

Not calling the life worthless but i fail to see why we should stop immigration because of immigrants commiting crimes against each other, apart from a bit of police time is wasted but im sure the rabid anti immigrant parade of daily mail buyers makes up for the cost with the buying off sensational headlines...

the comment sounded more like a warning than an instruction or command i see it as something similar to this


Kids have been told to keep ipods, mp3s and mobile phones out of sight as muggings to get these kinds of electronic items are on the rise, did you alot of muggers are working class, they expect people to change to meet the needs of a small group who can't but help themselves and go and mug people showing electronic items

Does it sound like kids are being told to change for muggers or given some sensible advice to avoid getting mugged, i would say the latter....

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

we need to realize that they don't have the same view as we do, and act accordingly.

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Well then we agree on what she says no? Why on earth should we act accordingly? Going to be a rough ride because I am not going to change a damn thing.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Well then we agree on what she says no? Why on earth should we act accordingly? Going to be a rough ride because I am not going to change a damn thing.

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Well we act accordingly on every other aspect of society, why should this be any different? We treat our boss different from our little brother, we treat our friend different than a stranger, etc etc

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Same thing, she expects all Norwegian women to act differently because of how a small group experiences their behaviour. Not perfect translation on the site but the message is the same. Norwegian women have to adapt to the new circumstances.

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She said that women should be careful when dealing with non westerners; not that they should stop wearing mini skirts because it'll "invite to rape". There's a huge difference there which you should be able to see.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Well we act accordingly on every other aspect of society, why should this be any different? We treat our boss different from our little brother, we treat our friend different than a stranger, etc etc

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Because quite simply I have absolutily no intention to change my ways just because somebody decided mass immigration is the bomb, and nobody should ask me to. They don't have to integrate I couldn't care less what they do as long as nothing is expected from me, not my party so don't invite me.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Because quite simply I have absolutily no intention to change my ways just because somebody decided mass immigration is the bomb, and nobody should ask me to. They don't have to integrate I couldn't care less what they do as long as nothing is expected from me, not my party so don't invite me.

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Well nothing is expected of you except that you should be aware that if you invite a muslim man with little knowledge of norwegian culture home, he might think that you're interested in sex.

And I doubt that would apply much to you anyway ~;)

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

First off Frags, you should know that you shouldn't blindly trust a source, especially a translated one, and that you should check the original source first. Also, you should know that you shouldn't rely on a qoute taken out of context, but you should get the full article.

The article the quote is from is this: http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2001/09/06/279676.html

in norwegian, unfortunately...

What she said was this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

- Det er oppsiktsvekkende hvor blinde og naive norske kvinner kan være overfor ikke-vestlige menn. Norske kvinner må bruke vett og forstand, sier Wikan til Dagbladet.

- Tallene overrasker meg ikke i det hele tatt. Mange innvandrere opplever at norske kvinner sender dem signaler om at de ønsker seksuell kontakt. Og da kan det fort gå galt. Mange norske kvinner har altfor dårlig kunnskap om ikke-vestlige menns kvinnesyn, sier Wikan.

- Det er aldri akseptabelt med voldtekt. Men det er forståelig at en del menn fra ikke-vestlige land opplever at de får seksuelle invitter fra norske kvinner som på sin side bare gjør det som er normalt for norske kvinner. Det er oppsiktsvekkende hvor blinde og naive norske kvinner kan være overfor ikke-vestlige menn, sier Wikan.

Jeg vil ikke legge skylden for voldtektene på de norske kvinnene. Men norske kvinner må innse at vi lever i et flerkulturelt samfunn, og innrette seg deretter.

Med mindre de har et ønske om sex, advarer Wikan norske kvinner på det sterkeste mot å invitere med seg hjem for eksempel muslimske menn som vet lite om norsk kultur.

Hun peker også på at voldtektsmenn i de fleste muslimske land knapt blir straffet.

- De fleste steder mener man at det er kvinnen som har skylden for voldtekten. Og det er rimelig at innvandrere tar med seg slike holdninger når de flytter hit til landet, sier professoren, som selv har levd mange år i muslimske land.

Translation:

"- It's suprising how blind and naive norwegian women can be towards non-western men. Norwegian women must use common sense, says Wikan to Dagbladet

- The numbers doesn't surprise me at all. Many immigrants experience that norwegian women are sending them signals that they want sexual contact. And then things can go wrong quickly. A lot of norwegian women have too poor knowledge about non-western mens view of women, says Wikan.

- It's never acceptable with rape. But it's understandable that a few men from non-western countries think they get sexual invitations from norwegian women who are just doing what's normal for norwegian women. It's shocking how blind and naive norwegian women can be towards non-western men, says Wikan.

- I don't want to put the blame of these rapes on the women. But norwegian women needs to realize that we're living in a multicultural society, and adopt accordingly.

Unless they want sex, Wikan warns norwegian women strongly not to invite for example muslim men who know little about norwegian culture home.

She also points to the fact that rapists in most muslim countries are rarely punished.

In most places, they believe that it's the woman who is to blame for the rape. And it's understandable that immigrants take these attitudes with them when they move to this country, says the professor, who has spent many years living in muslim countries."


I'm not very surprised that your original quote was forged by the guy writing the article at that vienna site...

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So the women were 'asking for it'? Sorry no. If a man rapes a woman, it is not the fault of the woman. Also rape has little to do with sex and everything to do with power. That says it all really. I was getting very angry reading that :daisy:. If anyone has had any contact with a woman who was raped, then they would know that one is one too many. Seems a little trite to say that there has 'only' been 20-30, that's 20-30 daughters, mothers, girlfriends who's lives have been ruined and scarred.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

And yes, it is true. We have to know how other people react to what we do. Whether that guy is a loud, brutal and arrogant man from Bergen or a muslim man not used to women not wearing a burka. We are working to change both the arrogance from the bergensers, and the sexual views of the muslims, but until that has changed, we have to know how they react to what they do, and yes, adopt accordingly. Just like we have to in every other field in society.

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You know that is just wishful thinking :furious3:

... 16 Mai 2008 :beam:

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Well nothing is expected of you

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You kidding me?

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

So the women were 'asking for it'? Sorry no. If a man rapes a woman, it is not the fault of the woman. Also rape has little to do with sex and everything to do with power. That says it all really. I was getting very angry reading that bullshit. If anyone has had any contact with a woman who was raped, then they would know that one is one too many. Seems a little trite to say that there has 'only' been 20-30, that's 20-30 daughters, mothers, girlfriends who's lives have been ruined and scarred.

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No, they weren't to take the blame. However, when encountering a potential danger it's clever to be to careful. It's like like walking past a hungry bear, getting assaulted and expect that no one should think you could have done anything different. If they were walking at the street and getting assaulted they couldn't have done anything different - but inviting them home or getting invited home was maybe not so clever after all.

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Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane

You know that is just wishful thinking :furious3:

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It probably is... But by the gods, we shall not stop trying!

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Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane

... 16 Mai 2008 :beam:

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Also, burn in hell.

I can already see non-westerners in Norway walking along deserted streets because everybody tries to avoid the possible dangers, poor guys, not their fault that they have to rape, pillage and torture, that's culturally genetic, they're just not lords of their own bodies. :shrug: :no:

Fragony has more brains than the entire European left combined.

Sarcasm or not that is sigged.

hmmmrph Fatal error: vB_vURL::Registry object is not an object in [path]/includes/class_vurl.php on line 154

Can't.

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Originally Posted by FactionHeir

So uhh anyone heard back from ajaxfetish yet? :grin2:

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It's probably a good sign that we haven't! :yes:

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Originally Posted by Husar

I can already see non-westerners in Norway walking along deserted streets because everybody tries to avoid the possible dangers, poor guys, not their fault that they have to rape, pillage and torture, that's culturally genetic, they're just not lords of their own bodies. :shrug: :no:

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Strawman.

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Originally Posted by Viking

Strawman.

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Strawman yourself.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

You kidding me?

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You like to dress up in mini-skirts, get drunk at clubs and ask men to come home with you? :beam:

Boy I'd like to see that!

:playingball:

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Originally Posted by Husar

Strawman yourself.

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Oh you know, there is a difference between walking in a public street and being in your own/someone elses home. :juggle2:

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Boy I'd like to see that!

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Boy?? I am now a MAN ~;)

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Boy?? I am now a MAN ~;)

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I think the appropriate term is "Sheman", or "Shemale", isn't it? :smash:

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Originally Posted by Viking

Oh you know, there is a difference between walking in a public street and being in your own/someone elses home. :juggle2:

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Ah, now you're making sense, I must've missed that part where girls invite men to their homes. :sweatdrop:

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

I think the appropriate term is "Sheman", or "Shemale", isn't it? :smash:

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Like the skinnies, call me skelet-Thor

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Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

Fragony has more brains than the entire European left combined.

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There is truth in that statement, whether it was intended as sarcasm or as a compliment.

*eyes Louis*

*checks out EMFM siggy*

*eyes Louis again*

OK, I want a good clean fight. No kicking, scratching or biting and no hitting below the belt...

*ding*

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Originally Posted by Viking

No, they weren't to take the blame. However, when encountering a potential danger it's clever to be to careful. It's like like walking past a hungry bear, getting assaulted and expect that no one should think you could have done anything different. If they were walking at the street and getting assaulted they couldn't have done anything different - but inviting them home or getting invited home was maybe not so clever after all.

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Flat out no. Men shouldn't be raping women, end of. If a man thinks he's justified in raping a woman then he's a filthy disgusting barbarian, end of. A woman should be able to say no, is the prevailing opinion in Europe, she should always be able to say no.

Now that's no longer true?

Has the culture changed suddenly?

:shame:

I'm not quite sure what Grizzly is advocating but it seems to be that we leave the filthy immigrants alone to kill each other.:inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

There is truth in that statement, whether it was intended as sarcasm or as a compliment.

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MUHA LOVE :beam: