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Not really, what you said - go back and read it - was purely naive and I think if you had met -any- socialists you would understand it is not a hate for the rich but a lust for equality which shapes the ideals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
I am not saying your views are not valid... all i am saying is it is not democratic... :juggle2:Quote:
Originally Posted by JAG
I believe in freedom of speech, but sacking them in no way means there is less freedom of speech. I would like you to show me how it is. The point is, they can say what they want, do what they want - within the law - but they cannot be teachers or police officiers. To think that is freedom of speech bashing or lessoning free speech, to me is mind boggling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caravel
This will not 'force' the BNP underground, plus if it did it wouldn't get worse.If you think there is so much sympathy for the BNP that they would gain support from the sacking of their members from the police force, you are completely wrong - the reason? It has happened before. Not a thing. What does gain them support is this attitude of people that it is alrdight to be a fascist, that they hold views which are acceptable. They don't.
Sacking them from their jobs wouldn't be a cynical move - lemme think, hmm, kicking a proven racist out of the police force, hmm terrible move? Cynical? Not words the mind first thinks of.
I don't believe it that has to be a joke. Is this really true?Quote:
Originally Posted by JAG
I'm aware of the Lawrence investigation, I was living in the UK when the inquiry was completed. But you don't need a pro-nazi political party to have an institutionally racist police force, we have plenty of them over here.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAG
You still did not answer my question:
Quote:
Will they get judged? Will each police officer whose name appears on this list be properly sent in front of a court and judged fairly, or will some administrator just can them?
Here it is, in a nutshell. Give that man a cigar. :smoking:Quote:
Originally Posted by Caravel
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/no...-bnp-far-rightQuote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
it is the prison service which makes all applicants sign a declaration. But the police force have it in their national constitution that you can't be a member.
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The prison service specified the BNP, the National Front and Combat 18 as groups falling within this category. Applicants for positions in the prison service must sign a declaration confirming: "I am not a member of any of the groups or organisations listed, nor any other with racist philosophy."
Drone, I think this pretty much answers your question.Quote:
Some organisations and firms have dismissed members on the basis of BNP membership. In a leading case, Serco, which supplies transport services to public bodies, was told by the court of appeal it was entitled to dismiss a bus driver after he was elected a BNP councillor. The court said the employee "was treated less favourably not on the ground that he was white, but because of a particular non-racial characteristic shared by him with a tiny proportion of the white population, that is membership of and standing for election for a party like the BNP".
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Originally Posted by InsaneApache
hahah, I love how you ignore all my posts and the rebuttals. Nevermind.
Nope. Try again. I want your own words.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAG
heh i seen on tele they said 'vote for whoever you want longs its not the BNP)
but what else do you suggest when Labours most useful policy is free bus passes for the elderly in exchange for higher taxes for Gordan's daily pie feast
BNP are no doubt too strict in there policy but at least overcrowding and suicide bombing will be down :inquisitive: at least in our country, they believe in bring immigrants home with incentives which is better than it may sound, they have changed in the last 10 years bringing there racism more or less cut down, i hate racism but the united kingdom is merely a small island, how no limits on our population can be implemented is beyond me, labour recently announcing clamps on the immigration policy is more or less garbage, there little they can do about those illegally living here under others accommodation, which no doubt is happening politicians can claim things that arent as always are never met, or about 50 years later than they 'predicted' and more nad more of the poorer will turn to there home roots, BNP as they run out of money, belive it or not the country is in poverty in various areas, with lesser population it would mean more jobs for our home population lessening the ordeal of unemployment and probably result in lower taxes, though with the credit crunch this could also lead to further closure of businesses....
To think that they ignored in every way in media doesnt really give us the chance to form a true judgment, its hard to knock anything if its never been done before, because change will be needed eventually, sooner rather than later, they also promise more prisons being built and longer sentences for wrongs, to some this may seem wrong, to me a murderer deserves a death sentence, though lesser crimes wouldn't necessarily vaily this behavior
We should stick with the bibles old testament if this is the case, the new testament is just a completely new edited religious text that is twisted for conveiance, it truely doesnt show how the world should work, law would be better, therefore the country would be run better, better more motivated police would be around saving the annoyance of these mixed up innocence where some have died or lost there lives through lack of police and communication efforts, which is unacceptable completely, and at least credit them with something, they tell more truth than any other, if they hold a threat, or hold a claim they'll say it and not try to avoid it like so many of these lieing politicians clearly do, though i believe many of the BNP party members are corrupt, there policies with better people would be more ideallic
hmmmm? I dont understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by drone
Few are as resolutely as blinkered as Jag.
Just as no left winger can truely do anything that is bad, anything right wing is the worst sort of evil
~:smoking:
Will each police officer whose name appears on this list be properly sent in front of a court and judged fairly, or will some administrator just can them?Quote:
Originally Posted by JAG
It's a simple question.
Nice, you hit fallacy #1 and #2 about immigration. Well played, you win the prizzzze.Quote:
i hate racism but the united kingdom is merely a small island, how no limits on our population can be implemented is beyond me, labour recently announcing clamps on the immigration policy is more or less garbage, there little they can do about those illegally living here under others accommodation, which no doubt is happening politicians can claim things that arent as always are never met, or about 50 years later than they 'predicted' and more nad more of the poorer will turn to there home roots, BNP as they run out of money, belive it or not the country is in poverty in various areas, with lesser population it would mean more jobs for our home population lessening the ordeal of unemployment and probably result in lower taxes, though with the credit crunch this could also lead to further closure of businesses....
#1 - Experts believe, just like they have been saying for the last, er... FOREVER - that in the comining years more people will be leaving the UK than arriving, because of the economic situation, just like any recession period. It is as cyclical as spinning tops... http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/no...unch-recession
#2 - Less immigration DOES NOT, mean less unemployment. Immigration and immigrants not only fill poisitions where we have NO desire to fulfill, such as fruit picking on farms - but because of their willingness to work hard long hours for little pay PRICES ARE KEPT DOWN. Meaning that everyone is better off. Lemme think, higher prices and worse supply - due to immigrants buggering off -.... what does that do to the economy... hmmm :idea2:
Not good.
well theres no way our country can avoid the credit crunch un harmed, mose well contribuate too a countries bankuptcy :clown:Quote:
Originally Posted by JAG
People don't do the jobs as benefits are generous. Reduce benefits (which Labour are finally slightly addressing) and people will then need to do the jobs to y'know pay for food etc etc.
Immigrants have been a boon in managing to not address the large number of people on long term benefits who turn up jobs that are hard and low paid as there's in essence no need.
~:smoking:
It doesn't matter? If they are taken to court and sacked, that is fine. If they are sacked without it, they can take their employers to court if they want. I don't understand the point and thrust of your question... Maybe I am missing something.Quote:
Originally Posted by drone
Not really. I just have views which I believe to be right and the best for all men, simple as that - just like you do and everybody does. But in this thread I see nothing that point by point goes against my points and nor can you, hence this statement.Quote:
Few are as resolutely as blinkered as Jag.
Just as no left winger can truely do anything that is bad, anything right wing is the worst sort of evil
i dont blame immigrants, if they can get into a country which offers them work and a way out of there bad lives, and there willing to do jobs for less thats fine, but the government shouldnt let so many come in in the first place, notice france and germany and numerous other rich countries dont have this problem because there government actually have some sense, though those that our poor should turn to other richer countries instead of just the UK now, it can all be blamed on governments as most migrate because there leader is a psychopath i.e zimbabwe, beat up for voting for a certain person, thats if that party's members isnt murdered before election...Quote:
Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
That kind of thinking over the last 30 years is precisely why the gap between rich and poor has grown hugely and there is a growing underclass in this country.... But we are going completly off topic here...Quote:
Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
From the article:Quote:
Originally Posted by JAG
My guess is that they will not be sacked in any case, and any that are should win their court battle to get their job back, or at least a tidy settlement.Quote:
UK police forces and the prison service are scouring the list for serving officers, vowing to sack any they find, the Guardian reported.
What of the death threats people on the list have received? Are those going to be investigated? Surely the sources of those can be found, what with the huge surveillance society you guys have going. Assuming they are actually happening, death threats are the only crime I'm seeing in that article.
Other factors are globalisation and return on investment. It is odd that the wealth gap is always the fault of the wealthy. Possibly if wealth were capped at £200,000 this would improve the country. Hopefully even you can see that this would destroy the UK as we know it.
The other kind of thinking has helped form a massive underclass of unemployed people on benefits with no desire to learn or better themselves.
~:smoking:
As I posted before...Quote:
Originally Posted by drone
They will get sacked and they will not get anything in return, exactly what they deserve.Quote:
Some organisations and firms have dismissed members on the basis of BNP membership. In a leading case, Serco, which supplies transport services to public bodies, was told by the court of appeal it was entitled to dismiss a bus driver after he was elected a BNP councillor. The court said the employee "was treated less favourably not on the ground that he was white, but because of a particular non-racial characteristic shared by him with a tiny proportion of the white population, that is membership of and standing for election for a party like the BNP".
People deserve to be sacked for being members of a registered political party?Quote:
Originally Posted by JAG
If you feel their supporters are a danger to the public and so should be kept from the civil service, how can you allow their politicians to sit in Parliament where they can influence the running of the country? Surely the party must be banned?
But then that would not be very democractic. This is the problem of the liberal left - it claims to be tolerant, while in reality its beliefs demand the total silencing of any opposing voice that does not have similar levels of toleration.
I know we are liberal democracies and not mob-rule pure democracies, but the liberal left demands a huge bias for the liberal element (if we presume liberty comes from laws), and almost totally removes the democratic element.
Quote:
Some organisations and firms have dismissed members on the basis of BNP membership. In a leading case, Serco, which supplies transport services to public bodies, was told by the court of appeal it was entitled to dismiss a bus driver after he was elected a BNP councillor. The court said the employee "was treated less favourably not on the ground that he was white, but because of a particular non-racial characteristic shared by him with a tiny proportion of the white population, that is membership of and standing for election for a party like the BNP".
Quote:
Poet and playwright Langston Hughes was also quizzed by McCarthy's chief counsel, Roy Cohn.
Cohn: ``Put one more 'S' in the USA to make it Soviet. The USA, when we take control, will be USSA then.''
Hughes: Will you read me the whole poem?
Cohn: I do not have the whole poem. Do you claim these words are out of context?
Hughes: It is a portion of a poem.
Cohn: Do you claim that these words distort the meaning?
Hughes: That is a portion of a poem and a bar of music out of context does not give you the idea of the whole thing.
....
Cohn: Have you ever attended a Communist Party meeting? I ask this again because perjury is a very serious crime.
Hughes: Not to my knowledge.
If these men do there jobs I see no reason to fire them. This is a witch hunt of the highest order.
BNP get attacked in every side i feel they just arent seen in a good light, if they were deemed angels by media many would change there views ( i written more if you look back a bit :yes: (i feel the need to say because its rare that i make long posts :yes: ( how many brackets am i using?(i'm getting confused :laugh4: ))))....)????
To be fair, I don't remember Jag ever claiming ot be liberal. He appears to be the iron cudgel of the left.
~:smoking:
rofl!!! I am incredibly liberal. I hate authoritarianism and curbs on liberty and consider liberty to be on an equal footing with equality as the defining quests government need to embrace. Indeed the biggest problems I have with the current Labour govt is not their positions on equality and their economic policy, but their authoritarian streak. I think I have been pretty consistent over all the years posting here on that. The fact you could get it so wrong shows how much attention you pay to posts by me.Quote:
To be fair, I don't remember Jag ever claiming ot be liberal. He appears to be the iron cudgel of the left.
No the party should not be banned, because they are allowed to express their views and the trouncing of their beliefs is exactly how you nullify them. Read what I have written in this thread, never have I said anything about ending the existence of the BNP, merely that if you are a member of the BNP you have to accept the concequences of it, such as not being able to be a police officer. just like if you are a member of a terrorist organisation you have to be prepared for the consequences of that. It is a perfectly coherent and simple position.Quote:
If you feel their supporters are a danger to the public and so should be kept from the civil service, how can you allow their politicians to sit in Parliament where they can influence the running of the country? Surely the party must be banned?
You what? Complete lies and idiotic opinion on your behalf is not the same as fact. Liberals silencing opposing views... Oh dear, come on.Quote:
This is the problem of the liberal left - it claims to be tolerant, while in reality its beliefs demand the total silencing of any opposing voice that does not have similar levels of toleration.
Over a list published on the Internet? Because we all know everything on the internet is true. This is about lives, careers, and due process. If the police forces do not do full investigations and adjudications on all employees listed and fired because of it, they will bankrupt councils. The smart thing to do would be to mark the names down, and observe. If they don't conform to proper police behavior when dealing with non-whites, sack them for these actions. It no longer becomes thoughtcrime at that point. Again, the death threats are the only crime I'm seeing at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAG
Idiots should be allowed to believe and say what they want. If they act to infringe on other people's civil liberties, they should get hammered accordingly.
Just watching the BBC latenight news and 1 police officer has now been suspended from the police for being on the list with a view to sacking him.
Good. Game.
:smash:
This will just increase support for the BNP. Just imagine the advertising they can get out of this. You can't fight ideology by arresting people, because it just creates "martyrs". If they want to stomp down on the BNP, they should just refute their arguments and wait for them to do something totally over the top which will alienate all their support.