Hellenistic rulers: conceivable epithets

I will surely come back to some of the already mentioned, once it is time, but now I have another one:

What would be "the killer/murderer"?

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Originally Posted by Lysimachos

I will surely come back to some of the already mentioned, once it is time, but now I have another one:

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Cool:wink:

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Originally Posted by Lysimachos

What would be "the killer/murderer"?

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That would be Phoneus (ΦΟΝΕΥΣ)

Maion

καυστήρας γατακιών

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Originally Posted by Maion Maroneios

Cool:wink:


That would be Phoneus (ΦΟΝΕΥΣ)

Maion

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Thank you, again :beam:
Although you might not remember when the time has come to use the epithets, because I'm planning my AAR in generations rather than updates right now :book:

While we are at it - did we have these:
The Beautiful/Handsome
The Ugly
The Hesitant
The Seefarer
The Wise
The Pious/Devout

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Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

καυστήρας γατακιών

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Would you please provide translations with your posts? This is not really helpful :no:
Not to imply it would be helpful if there were a translation... ~;)

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Originally Posted by Lysimachos

Thank you, again :beam:
Although you might not remember when the time has come to use the epithets, because I'm planning my AAR in generations rather than updates right now :book:

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Aha, that's cool.

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Originally Posted by Lysimachos

While we are at it - did we have these:
The Beautiful/Handsome - As discussed befrore, that would be Kalos (ΚΑΛΟΣ)
The Ugly - Aischros (ΑΙΣΧΡΟΣ)
The Hesitant - Distazon (ΔΙΣΤΑΖΩΝ)
The Seefarer - Nautes (ΝΑΥΤΕΣ)
The Wise - Sophos (ΣΟΦΟΣ)
The Pious/Devout - Eusebes (ΕΥΣΕΒΗΣ)

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Originally Posted by Lysimachos

Would you please provide translations with your posts? This is not really helpful :no:
Not to imply it would be helpful if there were a translation... ~;)

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That would be 'Burner of cats' :laugh4:

Maion

So if "The slayer of barbarians" is "Barbaroktonos (ΒΑΡΒΑΡΟΚΤΟΝΟΣ)" then the Slayer of Celts would be Keltoktonos?
[That, by the way, was historically Burebista (or Buruista)'s nickname]

Oh, and what about "Nautes" in feminine? (OK, the reason I keep asking for names in feminine is because I'm making a collection for Greek ship names... taking notes for an Argonaut AAR :p)

This thread is really becoming great.

Did the ancient hellenes have an Epithet for
"the lion"
"ruler of all hellenes" - in this case not just of thoose in hellas but of all Hellenes in the world.
"lord of all the seas and land under the sky" - I bit fantasy like but is there a similar term?

I would also have another question: could anyone tell me how expressions like "Europe of the Seleucids", "Europe of the nomads", "horsemen of the east", "horsemen of hades" might have sounded like in ancient Greek. (I quess my fantasy got a bit too loose:sweatdrop:)

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Originally Posted by HunGeneral

This thread is really becoming great.

Did the ancient hellenes have an Epithet for
"the lion"
"ruler of all hellenes" - in this case not just of thoose in hellas but of all Hellenes in the world.
"lord of all the seas and land under the sky" - I bit fantasy like but is there a similar term?

I would also have another question: could anyone tell me how expressions like "Europe of the Seleucids", "Europe of the nomads", "horsemen of the east", "horsemen of hades" might have sounded like in ancient Greek. (I quess my fantasy got a bit too loose:sweatdrop:)

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IIRC, "Lion" would be "Leonidas" (ΛΕΟΝΙΔΑΣ). "Ruler of all Hellenes" would probably be "Hellenokrator" (ΈΛΛΗΝΟΚΡΑΤΩΡ).

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Originally Posted by Burebista

So if "The slayer of barbarians" is "Barbaroktonos (ΒΑΡΒΑΡΟΚΤΟΝΟΣ)" then the Slayer of Celts would be Keltoktonos?
[That, by the way, was historically Burebista (or Buruista)'s nickname]

Oh, and what about "Nautes" in feminine? (OK, the reason I keep asking for names in feminine is because I'm making a collection for Greek ship names... taking notes for an Argonaut AAR :p)

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Keltoktonos is correct. Don't know about Burebista. As for Nautes, really I'm not sure. I know how it is in modern Greek, though I'm not sure about ancient.

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Originally Posted by HunGeneral

This thread is really becoming great.

Did the ancient hellenes have an Epithet for
"the lion"
"ruler of all hellenes" - in this case not just of thoose in hellas but of all Hellenes in the world.
"lord of all the seas and land under the sky" - I bit fantasy like but is there a similar term?

I would also have another question: could anyone tell me how expressions like "Europe of the Seleucids", "Europe of the nomads", "horsemen of the east", "horsemen of hades" might have sounded like in ancient Greek. (I quess my fantasy got a bit too loose:sweatdrop:)

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The Lion - Leon
Ruler of the Hellenes - Hellenokrator (ΕΛΛΗΝΟΚΡΑΤΩΡ)
Ruler of the seas - Thalassokrator (ΘΑΛΑΣΣΟΚΡΑΤΩΡ)
Ruler of the land/world - Gaiokrator/Kosmokrator (ΓΑΙΟΚΡΑΤΩΡ/ΚΟΣΜΟΚΡΑΤΩΡ)
Europe of the Seleucids/Nomads - He ton Seleukeidon/Nomadon Europe (Η ΤΩΝ ΣΕΛΕΥΚΕΙΔΩΝ/ΝΟΜΑΔΩΝ ΕΥΡΩΠΗ)
Horsemen of the East - Asiatikoi Hippeis or Hippeis ex Asias (ΑΣΙΑΤΙΚΟΙ ΙΠΠΕΙΣ, ΙΠΠΕΙΣ ΕΞ ΑΣΙΑΣ)
Horsemen of Hades - Hadou Hippeis (ΑΔΟΥ ΙΠΠΕΙΣ)

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Originally Posted by machinor

IIRC, "Lion" would be "Leonidas" (ΛΕΟΝΙΔΑΣ). "Ruler of all Hellenes" would probably be "Hellenokrator" (ΈΛΛΗΝΟΚΡΑΤΩΡ).

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Actually, Leonidas (ΛΕΩΝΙΔΑΣ, with an 'omega') is name with reference to a lion.

Maion

I vote we sticky this thread.
Thanks again, Maion. Burebista was the uniter of the Getai tribes, contemporary to Caesar, in case you were curious.

As for Nautes... what would it be in modern Greek, then? (feminine too)

Aha, I see. As for the last thing, that would be Nautissa.

Maion

Ooops, before I forget: I wanted to give my armies epithets too. Iirc, an army is stratos, right? What would be...

"the Western" (because they have fought at the Pillars of Herakles, pretty big thing for them)? Hesperios perhaps?

"the First (Created)"? Protogonos?

"the Royal / King's Own"? OK that must be Basilikos

"the Loyal / Reliable"?

"the Armoured"? Kataphraktos?

:sweatdrop: :sweatdrop: :sweatdrop:

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Originally Posted by Centurio Nixalsverdrus

Ooops, before I forget: I wanted to give my armies epithets too. Iirc, an army is stratos, right?

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Yep,that's right.

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Originally Posted by Centurio Nixalsverdrus

"the Western" (because they have fought at the Pillars of Herakles, pretty big thing for them)? Hesperios perhaps?

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Well, Hesperia was the name the Hellenes gave to America. West is Dyse (ΔΥΣΗ), so maybe it could be Dytikos Stratos, or Western Army

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Originally Posted by Centurio Nixalsverdrus

"the First (Created)"? Protogonos?

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Protogonos means 'of the first generation'. Now create is 'poio' (ΠΟΙΩ), so I believe it should be Stratos Protopoiethes (ΠΡΩΤΟΠΟΙΗΘΗΣ).

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Originally Posted by Centurio Nixalsverdrus

"the Royal / King's Own"? OK that must be Basilikos

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Yes, Basilikos Stratos is fine.

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Originally Posted by Centurio Nixalsverdrus

"the Loyal / Reliable"?

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Pistos Stratos

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Originally Posted by Centurio Nixalsverdrus

"the Armoured"? Kataphraktos?

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Well, Kataphraktos means 'armored all over'. But it can be used. In that case, it would be, as you correctly stated, Stratos Kataphraktos.

Maion

Well, there is the "Periegesis Aithiopion Hesperion", that's why I thought that. The Greeks knew America???

Thank you very much Maion.:2thumbsup:

I don't think so. But the mythological theme of a distant country separated from the rest of the world by a non-trivial barrier (mountains, deserts, seas) is quite common (the Chinese have their stories about such a country in their West; the Christians later had a story about a certain Presbyterian John somewhere too...) . Anyway back to this 'Hesperia' (night) country, IIRC it is the topos of one of the 12 tasks (if I am not mistaken, the one in which Herakles must fetch apples from the tree given to Hera as a wedding present).

Well, you might not think so but I won't go in debate with you (or anyone for that matter) about this topic. As for Hesperia, it means afternoon. Night is Nyx. What you said about the Heracles-thing is true though.

Maion

Ok, so... if lion is Leon, then "The Lion" would be... ?
And what about: The Bull, The Gryphon? The Serpent?

Umm what about
1.the demon?
2.the bringer of death?
3.The Greek word for America?
4.the colored/rainbowed one?
5.the restorer?
6.the insane?

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the colored/rainbowed one?

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Lolwut? Has one of your FMs been "putting the lime in the coconut"?

How would you say "the Beer-Drinker"?

Sorry im got some AWESOME weed right now so yeah...
LOL just kidding

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Originally Posted by Burebista

Ok, so... if lion is Leon, then "The Lion" would be... ?
And what about: The Bull, The Gryphon? The Serpent?

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The Lion would be Leon. Plain, no added stuff. As for Serpent, that would probably be Echydna. Don't know about Gryphon. Anyway, none of them would be used as an epithet for a ruler, mind you. Too fantasy-style if you get me.

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Originally Posted by Olaf Blackeyes

Umm what about
1.the demon - Not very sure about that one
2.the bringer of death - You are very into dark stuff aren't you? :inquisitive: Anyway, Aggeliaphoros Thanatou (Messenger of Death) or Thanatophoros
3.The Greek word for America - Esperia
4.the colored/rainbowed one - Polychrous (many-colored) could probably work.
5.the restorer - Could you make this more specific?
6.the insane? - Epimanes

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Maion

A small thing I remembered: I don't actually know how the Hellenes called beer (today we call it Mpira), but it has probably something to do with zythos. I'll be back on this one if someone doesn't answer this.

Maion

Pansy should definitely be included.

Demon would probably simply be Daimon as demon is derived from the Greek word, although "daimon" has a far broader meaining then simply "demon".

When i say restorer i mean like restorer of peace/of empire/of good times for all.

@Maion: 'brutikos'? (As an aside, you are correct: hesperia isn't 'night' rather 'twilight' -> 'evening'.)

A serpent is a drakon, from which, yes, a dragon gets its name. But Serpent does, at least in mythology, not bear the same conotations as it does today; don't think it would be used as an epiteth quite the opposite in fact. (Erichthonios, anyone?)

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Originally Posted by machinor

Demon would probably simply be Daimon as demon is derived from the Greek word, although "daimon" has a far broader meaining then simply "demon".

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Daimon means 'God' in Ancient Greek, even if it seems correct. You see, later on it got the meaning of 'evil'.

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Originally Posted by Olaf Blackeyes

When i say restorer i mean like restorer of peace/of empire/of good times for all.

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I'll get back to that:book:

Maion

Yeah, but "daimon" could also mean "soul", als in "eudaimonia" or "daimonion" (Sokrates' word for "conscience"). My Greek teacher explained to us that the "basic meaning" connecting all those different meanings was something like "supernatural force or entities that influences men". This also applied to lesser deities or supernatural beings (the major gods were usually called theoi) like demons etc. That was the reason it was applied to the christian concept of demons, since they also could influence men through possessing them.

However, you state of course correctly, that "daimon" would not really have the same connotation as our christian influenced understanding of "demon".

Exactly. Your points are 100% correct, but I don't want to bother most people here with specific stuff. Especially when it comes to a language as tricky as Ancient Greek:yes:

Maion

Hehehe. So I thought our understanding of "demon" would probably be translated into something like "bad daimon" or something like that. "kakon daimon" or something or maybe even "of bad daimon" like "having a bad soul" wich could fit with the metaphor of being a demon.
Just brainstorming... :juggle2: