Favorite phalanx-based faction?

Oh im afraid i got to say Arche Seleukeia is the better by far, i mean if you are up to the chalange, its very hard to play with them becouse the regions are very wide spread, and you have alot of enemys but i like the roster, include everthing. kataphracts, hetarioi, wide choice of phalanxes, very good heavy infantry, Syrian archers etc etc.
i hv been playing with Makedonia, and Epeiros. Epeiros is fun, and hard at the beginning. Makedonia is fairly easy.
The ptolomaoi there is no juice on the gameplay.
The best heavy cav in the game is no doubt Hetarioi. multiplayer gamers can vouch for that.

There is no real best heavy cav. It all comes down to the role you need it for. For instance, hetairoi will be owned by top teir catanks, but have more stamina. Molloson Agema can run circles around both, and can do more charges in the rear of an enemy line before tiring, but are more vulnerable to enemy attacks. Hetairoi are simply the most versatile(I prefer cataphracts though).

And don't forget that the scythed chariots can eat the armored heavies for breakfast, if you know how to use them. :o

The super heavy cav will roll over chariots in a head on charge.

Also, I did some MP testing of the Molloson Agema and they are possibly THE best cav of the heavy cav/non cataphract class since they trade armor for pure defense. The most effective cav based anti-cav weapons are the charging lances(since it attacks so fast, has high lethality, AFAIK a mount bonus, and is AP but mostly the AP). But MA have hgih defense isntead of armor so they actually get a defensive advantage over say... Companions.

You can try it, they beat Companions head on.

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Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

The super heavy cav will roll over chariots in a head on charge.

Also, I did some MP testing of the Molloson Agema and they are possibly THE best cav of the heavy cav/non cataphract class since they trade armor for pure defense. The most effective cav based anti-cav weapons are the charging lances(since it attacks so fast, has high lethality, AFAIK a mount bonus, and is AP but mostly the AP). But MA have hgih defense isntead of armor so they actually get a defensive advantage over say... Companions.

You can try it, they beat Companions head on.

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Nah, I can show you in mp how the chariots destroy the super heavy cavalry units.

Not in a head to head charge you wont.

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Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

Not in a head to head charge you wont.

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It works, the secret is the loose formation. At the charge, the chariots will suffer serious casualties and rout sometimes. However if they don't rout, then they will butcher the heavy cavalry in close combat with immense speed. If you don't believe me, try it out in MP, or in a Custom game, or I can send you a match replay when 2 chariot units destroy companions/cataphracts and prodromoi (not remembering which was).

I can also send you replays of chariots bouncing off of Baktrian catanks in hilarious fashion. What you say does make sense and I could see loose formation chariots being fairly good head on versus cav. However, there is the issue of actually controlling the chariots when they are in loose since they tend ot have minds of their own.

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Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

I can also send you replays of chariots bouncing off of Baktrian catanks in hilarious fashion. What you say does make sense and I could see loose formation chariots being fairly good head on versus cav. However, there is the issue of actually controlling the chariots when they are in loose since they tend ot have minds of their own.

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Maybe that's the reason why they are that good in close combat against heavy cavalry, I don't know. Though the chariots are still sucky against anything else, for example infantry and skirmisher cavalry make short work of them.

Im still trying to figure out the best use for chariots, sometimes its great sometimes terrible.
Back to the topic, if Baktria is considered a phalanx-based faction thats my vote. From my experience playing Baktria so far if you "phalanx-base" your army against nomads and semi-nomads you are screwed. Eastern part of the map is nasty and wonderful at same time.

Well a phalanx in towns against nomads does wonders..... Mmmmmmmmm.


I'm pretty sure the "Greyhound" in the Epeirote sheild is just a wolve.

Are you kidding me? The phalanx is utterly immune from missile attacks from the front. It provides a steady anchor on the battlefield that the Nomads don't have and which can harbour your own archers and cavalry to safely decimate the enemy from protected positions. No Nomad can beat the combination of early game Pantodapoi Phalangitai and Nizagan-Ehranshar sticked together.

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Originally Posted by A Very Super Market

I'm pretty sure the "Greyhound" in the Epeirote sheild is just a wolve.

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It's a Molossan hound, it was discussed in a faction symbols thread.

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Originally Posted by A Terribly Harmful Name

Are you kidding me? The phalanx is utterly immune from missile attacks from the front. It provides a steady anchor on the battlefield that the Nomads don't have and which can harbour your own archers and cavalry to safely decimate the enemy from protected positions. No Nomad can beat the combination of early game Pantodapoi Phalangitai and Nizagan-Ehranshar sticked together.

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The Nomads don't have to win each battle. They attack, use up all their arrows and withdraw to attack you next turn... etc.

That or take you on a wild goose chase, then charge you from all four directions when you're tired, thirsty, and demoralized.....

That's what it comes down to: the AI is too stupid for using attrition techniques, while you can simply reply them in kind with them being incapable of chasing your archers, fruitlessly shooting at the front of the phalanx and predictably losing the duel vs. the foot archers. You don't have to chase them, that's stupid.

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Originally Posted by satalexton

That or take you on a wild goose chase, then charge you from all four directions when you're tired, thirsty, and demoralized.....

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Why bother with that when you can do that on the campaign map with nothing but arrows?

Because it makes you feel bad, and in most cases you don't have the time. I mean, steppe factions agains the phalanx AI feels like total cheating. 2 saka bodyguard units can smash a powerful seleukid half stack, seriously. I did it at least: 2 saka normal family member bodyguards vs 1 seleukid general, 1 syrian archers, 2 persian spearmen, 1 eastern skirmishers, 2 klerouch phalangitai and 2 argyraspidai. It started that I thought I had lost nisa, so I sent those gens to wear them down, and it ended with a victory, something like 900 kills, and 40 losses:dizzy2:
The AI does completely stupid things, like when phalanx units are exhausted, they somehow manage to lift up the pikes right before I charge, or even countercharge with swords.:no:

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Originally Posted by Lupu

2 saka bodyguard units can smash a powerful seleukid half stack, seriously. I did it at least: 2 saka normal family member bodyguards vs 1 seleukid general, 1 syrian archers, 2 persian spearmen, 1 eastern skirmishers, 2 klerouch phalangitai and 2 argyraspidai. It started that I thought I had lost nisa, so I sent those gens to wear them down, and it ended with a victory, something like 900 kills, and 40 losses:dizzy2:

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God Damn i need to crash those Seleukids like that too :smash::smash::smash:

On the OP,

Playing as Pontos, I felt that they were a bit of a militarily weak faction. I mean, lucky thing is that they get a lot of Galatian and Hellenic regionals, because otherwise their roster is a bit limited. They're like an ersatz successor: instead of large armies of Medium and Elite Phalanxes supported by Heavy Cavalry, Pontos gets ersatz Pezhetairoi (Pantodapoi Phalangitai play a disproportionate amount in their battle line), ersatz Argyraspides (Chalkaspides, an overpriced Hysterioi Pezhetairoi), ersatz pseudo-Thorakitai and finally ersatz Hetairoi (Their late bodyguard Pontikoi Strategoi).

Nevertheless their campaign placement makes them a very fun faction, but I wouldn't count on their armies. I only really liked the Galatians and made sure I recruited tons of these because that's about the only "good" and sometimes the only "cost-effective" thing I could place in a Pontic Army.

And Harmata Drepanephora are useless.

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Originally Posted by A Terribly Harmful Name

On the OP,

Playing as Pontos, I felt that they were a bit of a militarily weak faction. I mean, lucky thing is that they get a lot of Galatian and Hellenic regionals, because otherwise their roster is a bit limited. They're like an ersatz successor: instead of large armies of Medium and Elite Phalanxes supported by Heavy Cavalry, Pontos gets ersatz Pezhetairoi (Pantodapoi Phalangitai play a disproportionate amount in their battle line), ersatz Argyraspides (Chalkaspides, an overpriced Hysterioi Pezhetairoi), ersatz pseudo-Thorakitai and finally ersatz Hetairoi (Their late bodyguard Pontikoi Strategoi).

Nevertheless their campaign placement makes them a very fun faction, but I wouldn't count on their armies. I only really liked the Galatians and made sure I recruited tons of these because that's about the only "good" and sometimes the only "cost-effective" thing I could place in a Pontic Army.

And Harmata Drepanephora are useless.

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I think Pontos requires a different playing style than a Successor state, because the standard H&A doesn't work with them that much. A few Galatian units (including naked ones) as hardcores, eastern axemen for AP flanking, Pantodapoi Phalangitai for pinning and a chariot unit for the fear factor usually enough to rout the neighbourhood's armies with ease. And you don't need to spend your money on Chalkaspides (low morale compared to the other elite pikemen), Kushegavan (sp?, too expensive and Pontos' opponents have better hammers), Pontikoi Thorakitai (expensive and just not good).

Yep but then having an army of just levy phalanxes is just not good. I always recruited one Chalkaspides for my battle line, part for RP, part for the fact that I really needed something better just as a guarantee. Pantodapoi Phalangitai just die too easily vs. superior enemy phalanxes.

I realized I could recruit Kleurochoi in Sardis, but by then I already had a lvl 2 government. Never mind :(. That and the lack of any good heavy cavalry place Pontos in a dilemma, the only really good thing is the Galatian infantry, the Caucasian Archers and the variety of Anatolian axemen they get.

I also don't get Lavotuxri because I build a lvl. 3 govt. in Ankyra since it's too underdeveloped. But Lavotuxri are also a bit out of place in the East. As for the rest, I think you can recruit Armenian Cataphracts (not sure of the MIC required though) but I never tried.

ARCHE SELEUKEIA

The greatest throne in the world

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Originally Posted by A Terribly Harmful Name

Are you kidding me? The phalanx is utterly immune from missile attacks from the front. It provides a steady anchor on the battlefield that the Nomads don't have and which can harbour your own archers and cavalry to safely decimate the enemy from protected positions. No Nomad can beat the combination of early game Pantodapoi Phalangitai and Nizagan-Ehranshar sticked together.

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I prefer to tech to and import heavy persian archers (thanvare parsig) from regions slightly to the south. But I cede the Saka frontier towns to Baktria. Those towns don't pay for their own defense