Cheer up! It's not all bad

Why would you wish to criticise an emblem of a charity? :inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

Why would you wish to criticise an emblem of a charity? :inquisitive:

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Lot's of charities should be criticized. Much of it is just plain useless.

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

Why would you wish to criticise an emblem of a charity? :inquisitive:

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Because many people see it as a symbol of imperialist oppression others just don't like the idea of overlly celebrating a period in european history that tore it apart and laid the groundwork for WW2 and later the cold War. And then others hate the fact the Poppy seems to be worn earlier and earlier every year which makes them fear people are not wearing the Poppy for the reason it was made I could go on

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Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

Because many people see it as a symbol of imperialist oppression others just don't like the idea of overlly celebrating a period in european history that tore it apart and laid the groundwork for WW2 and later the cold War. And then others hate the fact the Poppy seems to be worn earlier and earlier every year which makes them fear people are not wearing the Poppy for the reason it was made I could go on

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Isn't that what made the deaths so tragic? I thought the idea was remembering the ordinary soldiers, not celebrating imperialist regimes?

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Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

Because many people see it as a symbol of imperialist oppression others just don't like the idea of overlly celebrating a period in european history that tore it apart and laid the groundwork for WW2 and later the cold War. And then others hate the fact the Poppy seems to be worn earlier and earlier every year which makes them fear people are not wearing the Poppy for the reason it was made I could go on

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Many people are idiots. For starters, it's Armistice Day, we celebrate the end of the Great War, and we remember those who fell needlessly during it. I completely fail to see the "Imperialist" connection.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Many people are idiots. For starters, it's Armistice Day, we celebrate the end of the Great War, and we remember those who fell needlessly during it. I completely fail to see the "Imperialist" connection.

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Personally, I wear the poppy in remembrance of the old men. That they fought in a war is only incidental to the respect I'm paying to my seniors.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Lot's of charities should be criticized. Much of it is just plain useless.

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Many charities are very corporatised, especially ones like "Guide Dogs for the Blind", and a lot of the gap year charities (Yeah, go over to Africa and teach those black people how to build toilets, show them the benefits of Western Civilisation).
A lot of the money you donate is hoovered up by admin, are invested in the stock market. It's interesting how charities are becoming like companies, companies want to be charities, yet only "real" charities are exempt from taxation.

Btw, I would be fine with the poppy thing, if it honoured the dead from all countries, and all wars. But no, we all shed tears for the boys who were killed in a war in which nobody alive today actually fought in, and then we have the nerve to compare a few hundred volunteers dying over an eight year period with the tens of thousands of conscripts who perished in mere days in that particular war.

I don't know. But something about the way the whole thing is used and treated annoys me.

Remembrance in Canada is for Canadians. And Sophie Scholl, apparently. The assembly went no where, I'm playing Hearts of Iron, and no one seems to care.

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Originally Posted by Subotan

But no, we all shed tears for the boys who were killed in a war in which nobody alive today actually fought in, and then we have the nerve to compare a few hundred volunteers dying over an eight year period with the tens of thousands of conscripts who perished in mere days in that particular war.

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They all died in the service of their countries on the field of battle. Where doesn't really matter. The day is about honouring all the soldiers that fell for your country, and the lives of those dying in Afghanistan are just as valuable as the lives of those who fell on the Western Front.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Many people are idiots. For starters, it's Armistice Day, we celebrate the end of the Great War, and we remember those who fell needlessly during it. I completely fail to see the "Imperialist" connection.

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Many people are idots but we had thirty years of violence because two side's deified the glorious fallen dead of there own side and demonised the other. Its dangerous to be unthinking about the symbols you hold dear if they become part of your Identity then it can lead to problems with other people who dont have the same feelings.

I am not saying its you personally its just summit that happens

On a personal note I have no love or hatred for the Poppy but it does seem to be worn now as a badge rather than to actually display rememberence. I think personally it should be worn just for the week as it is becoming devalued as evidenced by the fact more and more British people are voicing concern over just this point.

I have never worn a Poppy ever but I see no reason for English people to stop wearing it.

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Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

Many people are idots but we had thirty years of violence because two side's deified the glorious fallen dead of there own side and demonised the other. Its dangerous to be unthinking about the symbols you hold dear if they become part of your Identity then it can lead to problems with other people who dont have the same feelings.

I am not saying its you personally its just summit that happens

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Sure, but europe isn't going to go to war with itself anytime soon.

Why do people in Ireland wear marijuana plants? :inquisitive:

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Originally Posted by Husar

Why do people in Ireland wear marijuana plants? :inquisitive:

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We dont mark it at all except for a couple of small scale services held by various NGO's or the various embassies of the countries. I fact I dont think I have ever actually seen an actual Poppy on anyone ever except on telly

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Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy

We dont mark it at all except for a couple of small scale services held by various NGO's or the various embassies of the countries. I fact I dont think I have ever actually seen an actual Poppy on anyone ever except on telly

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And that's very sad, although you will see places where the poppy is worn widely - my estate for example. 49,000 Irishmen lost their lives in the Great War - and it was very widely supported by the Irish population. Only through the re-invention of our history by nationalists has that contribution been forgotten.

Obviously, my attachment to the symbol of the poppy is rooted in my own military service. I wear it for the global symbolism of course, and for the remembrance of men and women who gave so much - both in folly and in greatness - whom I never knew save as etched names on endless white stones.

But I truly wear it for my friends, the smiling faces I recall that did not return from the Falklands. Perhaps strangely, I also remember those terrible, frozen young faces of the Argentinian conscripts who would never leave those bleak hills. And the bemused expressions of the two Irishmen I killed before they wreaked unknowable destruction on innocents, shaking as I saw the light I had extinguished fade from their wide eyes. And finally, for my daughter taken before her time.

It is only by seeing the faces of the lost, by contemplating each and every one of their possible futures, how they may have lived and made the world a better or worse place, that we can comprehend the utter horror of war - be it the War to End War or a minor police action. For us or against, every one of those killed had a mother, a future, a life. Every single one lost everything they could ever be, everything they would ever have. They lost the entire world.

We should remember them. Not because of a symbol, but because not to do so makes us less human.

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Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost

And that's very sad, although you will see places where the poppy is worn widely - my estate for example. 49,000 Irishmen lost their lives in the Great War - and it was very widely supported by the Irish population. Only through the re-invention of our history by nationalists has that contribution been forgotten.

Obviously, my attachment to the symbol of the poppy is rooted in my own military service. I wear it for the global symbolism of course, and for the remembrance of men and women who gave so much - both in folly and in greatness - whom I never knew save as etched names on endless white stones.

But I truly wear it for my friends, the smiling faces I recall that did not return from the Falklands. Perhaps strangely, I also remember those terrible, frozen young faces of the Argentinian conscripts who would never leave those bleak hills. And the bemused expressions of the two Irishmen I killed before they wreaked unknowable destruction on innocents, shaking as I saw the light I had extinguished fade from their wide eyes. And finally, for my daughter taken before her time.

It is only by seeing the faces of the lost, by contemplating each and every one of their possible futures, how they may have lived and made the world a better or worse place, that we can comprehend the utter horror of war - be it the War to End War or a minor police action. For us or against, every one of those killed had a mother, a future, a life. Every single one lost everything they could ever be, everything they would ever have. They lost the entire world.

We should remember them. Not because of a symbol, but because not to do so makes us less human.

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To be honest it will take at least another 100yrs in my view before the poison on both sides is drained enough for people to wear it without it being seen as a victory for a particular side its sad but then the stroy of this country is one tragedy on another.