Video games 'worse' than porn

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Sorry, but I also disagree with you on that one. The 'schoolgirl fantasy' as you call it, most certainly implies a desire to have sex with a young girl who is still in school. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that desire; indeed I would say that the specific fantasy you are talking about is very normal because the age of consent does not match the biological age of sexual maturity. However, it's definitely based on the notion that a person is aroused by teenage schoolgirls. Denying that is, frankly, a bit preposterous.

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Nonsense. Here's another take:

Don't we just love fond memories? We do, and the same goes for sex. Your first arousal was caused by girls in these women; the 'schoolgirl fantasy' does not imply anything other than reviving memories; to relive your youth, so to say, in a more mature way.

I don't have a 'schoolgirl fantasy', probably because we don't have school uniforms here. But I do have a hefty football uniform fetish....

Here's another one by the way; shaving pubes. Are the people who like them shaved really looking for under-age sex as well?

But back at the question at hand. I would say that violence (especially of the close up type a la GTA) is certainly more disturbing to me than porn. Simply because most porn obviously involves sex which is basically OK; whereas the idea & act of walking into a bar with a semi-automatic, turning on the spot and burying a small Armory worth of lead inside the head of one of the customers whilst shouting various expletives to give you the impression of an exceedingly violent parakeet taught human language by a 6 year old schoolboy is not (yet).

The word "fantasy" has a double meaning. In once case, it can mean that people imagine it happening, e.g. rape in consensual roleplay sex. The other meaning of the word comes close to desire, in that if I fantasise about Europa Barbarorum II, I want it really badly. HoreTore was clearly referring to the first instance when talking about rape fantasies.

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Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios

But back at the question at hand.

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BREAKING NEWS: Media hypes story about violence in video games. In other news, scientific study shows that honey makes bears aggressive when they are having a **** in the woods.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Don't we just love fond memories?

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Well I do. Still have contact with some of them. Good memory's. Now we are friends.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Nonsense. Here's another take:

Don't we just love fond memories? We do, and the same goes for sex. Your first arousal was caused by girls in these women; the 'schoolgirl fantasy' does not imply anything other than reviving memories; to relive your youth, so to say, in a more mature way.

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I fully agree with you on this, but this entire side-discussion happened because you compared the "schoolgirl fantasy" to the "rape fantasy." Yet your justification for why the "schoolgirl fantasy" is ok is because of "fond memories." Are saying "fond memories" applies to the "rape fantasy" as well? If not, you're comparing two very different things.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

I fully agree with you on this, but this entire side-discussion happened because you compared the "schoolgirl fantasy" to the "rape fantasy." Yet your justification for why the "schoolgirl fantasy" is ok is because of "fond memories." Are saying "fond memories" applies to the "rape fantasy" as well? If not, you're comparing two very different things.

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Uhm, no.....

I'm saying that there's a difference between a fantasy and the real thing, and that having a fantasy does not imply wanting to do the real thing.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

I fully agree with you on this, but this entire side-discussion happened because you compared the "schoolgirl fantasy" to the "rape fantasy." Yet your justification for why the "schoolgirl fantasy" is ok is because of "fond memories." Are saying "fond memories" applies to the "rape fantasy" as well? If not, you're comparing two very different things.

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Oh no... that combined with HoreTore's comment about personal experience...

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Uhm, no.....

I'm saying that there's a difference between a fantasy and the real thing, and that having a fantasy does not imply wanting to do the real thing.

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Fantasy is pretending to do the real thing. (aka playrape), etc.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

Oh no... that combined with HoreTore's comment about personal experience...

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Don't worry, I can't even get the little guy up if the woman isn't actually up for it. My ex tried to "give in to" sex once, and it resulted in a limp soldier and a very insulted me.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

Fantasy is pretending to do the real thing. (aka playrape), etc.

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Fantasy has a double meaning, so it means both.

Anyway, why on earth would any woman want to be raped....?

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Anyway, why on earth would any woman want to be raped....?

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Then why would anyone be interested in "playrape" then?

There is afterall, the out-of-date Freud psychology where the Id has these desires but the Ego prevents these ideas becoming reality. So when you go "I could kill for that tasty burger", your sugerego supresses the 'kill' action, so you don't actually act on your impulses.

"playrape" could be considered acting on your impulses of wanting to get raped/rape, but in a safe environment as instructed by the ego.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Uhm, no.....

I'm saying that there's a difference between a fantasy and the real thing, and that having a fantasy does not imply wanting to do the real thing.

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I disagree. Having a fantasy certainly implies at least a moderate level of interest in doing the thing. A fantasy is not the same as doing the real thing, but if you had no interest in doing the real thing you wouldn't be fantasizing about it. In your schoolgirl fantasy "memories" comparison, the person is fantasizing about their own actual sexual encounter... something that did happen in real life, and they are imagining themselves re-living that real sexual encounter.

I'm seriously not trying to turn this into a thought-crime situation. I don't care what a person thinks about, as long as they control their actions, and will argue strongly in favor of anyone being allowed to fantasize about anything they want. However, it's important for people to be aware of their own impulses. If a person is in denial about what their urges are, they are at risk of acting on them in inappropriate situations. Self-control inherently requires knowledge of what needs to be controlled.

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Originally Posted by TinCow

I fully agree with you on this, but this entire side-discussion happened because you compared the "schoolgirl fantasy" to the "rape fantasy." Yet your justification for why the "schoolgirl fantasy" is ok is because of "fond memories." Are saying "fond memories" applies to the "rape fantasy" as well? If not, you're comparing two very different things.

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Never cracked a skull when you were half-awake? And the schoolgirl and rape victim both have the disadvantage of having very poor odds against a male full of determination. Again, not my thing, but why is it so hard to accept that it is for some, they bring their kids to school and pick them up, nobody gets hurt.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Never cracked a skull when you were half-awake? And the schoolgirl and rape victim both have the disadvantage of having very poor odds against a male full of determination. Again, not my thing, but why is it so hard to accept that it is for some, they bring their kids to school and pick them up, nobody gets hurt.

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I have absolutely no idea what argument you're making here.

pics or it didn't happen

Fragony is a part-time dutch freudian psychoanalysist.

Porn is worse.

The violence in video games is clearly a fantasy, or from fantastic (ie not common, real situations, but war, zombie apocalypses, criminal gangs, etc.)

Whereas with porn, people like Ron Jeremy go on about how the videos are supposed to help real people with their sex lives - though porn is based on fantasy, not reality, and objectification of women.

CR

I thought I covered this on the third comment on this page.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

pics or it didn't happen

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Are you sure?

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Originally Posted by TinCow

I have absolutely no idea what argument you're making here.

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That some like being vulnerable, or the other way around, what the hell is your problem, or do you finance their bedroom.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

Then why would anyone be interested in "playrape" then?

There is afterall, the out-of-date Freud psychology where the Id has these desires but the Ego prevents these ideas becoming reality. So when you go "I could kill for that tasty burger", your sugerego supresses the 'kill' action, so you don't actually act on your impulses.

"playrape" could be considered acting on your impulses of wanting to get raped/rape, but in a safe environment as instructed by the ego.

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You need to stop seeing rape as just one thing, and instead separate it into separate parts. The real thing gives you all of them, while a roleplay thing only gives you the parts you want.

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Whereas with porn, people like Ron Jeremy go on about how the videos are supposed to help real people with their sex lives - though porn is based on fantasy, not reality, and objectification of women.

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Porn does help people - it shows you where to put what.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

That some like being vulnerable, or the other way around, what the hell is your problem, or do you finance their bedroom.

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My problem was with this specific statement:

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Originally Posted by Fragony

More like not taking no for an answer

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The implication of that was that it was acceptable for someone to engage in a fantasy with another person who was not agreeing to participate in that fantasy. I think that's wrong. I don't care what your fantasies are, but I strongly believe that they have to be consensual.

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Porn is worse.

The violence in video games is clearly a fantasy, or from fantastic (ie not common, real situations, but war, zombie apocalypses, criminal gangs, etc.)

Whereas with porn, people like Ron Jeremy go on about how the videos are supposed to help real people with their sex lives - though porn is based on fantasy, not reality, and objectification of women.

CR

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Still half of Dutch young women admit watching porn, which means they all do.

implication of that was that it was acceptable for someone to engage in a fantasy with another person who was not agreeing to participate in that fantasy. I think that's wrong. I don't care what your fantasies are, but I strongly believe that they have to be consensual.

Makes you think I don't, of course it must be mutual.

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Whereas with porn, people like Ron Jeremy go on about how the videos are supposed to help real people with their sex lives - though porn is based on fantasy, not reality, and objectification of women.

CR

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I'd agree that a lot of mainstream porn objectifies women, but there's a lot of independent and amateur stuff out there that's fine IMO. It's not as easy to find, and usually its intended audience is women, but at least it's out there, largely thanks to the internet.

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Originally Posted by Kukri

Is it possible for us to get back to pr0n vs vid-game?

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Porn is worse.

The violence in video games is clearly a fantasy, or from fantastic (ie not common, real situations, but war, zombie apocalypses, criminal gangs, etc.)

Whereas with porn, people like Ron Jeremy go on about how the videos are supposed to help real people with their sex lives - though porn is based on fantasy, not reality, and objectification of women.

CR

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Halliluja! Praise the Board! The thread is Porn again! ~D

Noble effort CR, but it looks like it may not work. ~:pat:

I'll try: my logic says violence should be far worse than porn, but the irrational side of me (in this case) doesn't mind violence as much porn when it comes to exposing it to young ones. I guess it might stem from growing up playing army as a kid and not Oh-doctor-I feel-funny-between-my-legs with neighborhood girls (don't think there were any girls in my neighborhood come to think of it...).

Edit: Now it looks like it is working...well done CR! (Ah, the benefits of taking so long to post something)

Why do people have such a problem with thread drift?

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Originally Posted by Gregoshi

Halliluja! Praise the Board! The thread is Porn again! ~D

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Taken out of context, Kukri asking us to please talk about porn is indeed pretty hilarious :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Subotan

Why do people have such a problem with thread drift?

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Because in this case it was a failure to communicate (rape vs rape fantasy) which seemed rather pointless after getting through it all. The original topic never really got started before the derailment.

Andres:

Here's a piece on research regarding the prevalence of the "rape fantasy" among women. It seems that figures vary between 19 and 57% depending on age and study. Suggests that it is a fantasy experience during masturbation for a significant minority of women.


Re: Porn versus video violence:


Video game violence is aimed at the 10-20 age frame and at a primarily male audience (ratings be snookered, let's deal with reality). As such, it interacts with puberty issues -- and research on its impact has been chaotic at best. Is society better served by teaching our young to lead zombies by the correct distance to insure a head shot? Probably not. However, little research indicates that a relatively stable person will become unstable by consuming this form of entertainment.

Porn is aimed at anyone who will pay for it. Setting aside the loathesome subset of that industry that caters to pererasts and other such vermin, it is an industry whose participants are legal adults, compensated for their efforts, and can be presumed to function under the concepts of assumption of risk/informed consent. That said, it is an industry rife with drug use and soul-deadening exploitation that tends to consume its "talent" and provide few rewards save for the profits of the distributors.

Few parents would be happy with their child choosing such a career -- however legal or well compensated -- even if they have no "hangups" whatsoever about sex etc.

sex>violence

however

video game industry>pr0n industry

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Porn does help people - it shows you where to put what.

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:rolleyes: And just how did people reproduce before that then? Heck, how do the Amish make babies without porn to tell them how to do it?

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I'd agree that a lot of mainstream porn objectifies women, but there's a lot of independent and amateur stuff out there that's fine IMO. It's not as easy to find, and usually its intended audience is women, but at least it's out there, largely thanks to the internet.

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That's probably not as bad. My point of reference was one of Ron Jeremy's debates with the XXX Minister guy.

Still, I think porn generally gives an unrealistic depiction of love, that claims to be true, while violent video games are clearly fantasy.

Of course, neither are appropriate for young kids and it's the parent's duty to control what their kids view.

CR

I think it's both harmless, really, what's wrong with porn anyway?

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Originally Posted by Skullheadhq

I think it's both harmless, really, what's wrong with porn anyway?

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Some people object to the industry itself, as Seamus stated. Similar to saying that eating meat is OK but factory farming is wrong. I think the trucking industry is also rife with drug use, and exploitative type of job, and certainly most of the profits go to the business owners. But one can't help but feel that someone working in porn because of a lack of options is a worse thing than someone being a trucker for lack of options.

Others say it provides an inaccurate depiction of sex and leads to men having sexual wants that aren't shared by women. This is more of a criticism against certain parts of the industry.