1092 A.D. campaign is now here.

Paladin,

"ECS no-agents" is actually very popular,
would it be possible to include a no-agents compatible version of your campaign in the download?

"ECS no-agents" allows only emissaries and princesses,
completely removes taverns(assassin), brothels(spy), monestary(Inq.) and Reliquery(Grand Inq.), and corresponding Muslim buildings,
But enhances the happiness factor of churchs/mosques to compensate,
it is actually very playable,

the occaisional wish for an assasin is negated by keeping a carefull eye on the pope, and only offending him when he is 70+
- 'cause he will die soon anyway http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
OR by attacking a cath faction that is small, then when you get the warning take on your real threat!
Pope only tracks one warning at a time.

barocca:

Quote Paladin,
"ECS no-agents" is actually very popular,
would it be possible to include a no-agents compatible version of your campaign in the download?[/QUOTE]

Sure, but what's the argument in favor of eliminating assassins, Inquistors, and Grand Inq., and corresponding Muslim's? Those are historical and the game uses them to balance itself out against the human player.

I can see how the Spy unit really is not historically accurate and seriously throws the game out of whack (I conquered the world in less than 100 years without ever having to declare war. I used Spies to cause revolts and stepped in right behind them).

But Assassins, et al, are useful, historically accurate, and don't unfairly throw the game out of whack. Plus, you can easily defend against Assassins if you want to ignore them.

If a player really wants to have no agents at all yet play the 1092 game, he can just use the 1092 Early file, remove the Cathedral and reliquary from Constantinople and the Churches from all the Catholic factions and then use the two crusader unit text files from the "ECS no agents" mod. That should do it.

But why miss out on those agents? They add a seriously fun element to the game. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

P.S. I uploaded the updated 1092Early campaign to totalwar.org. Can you please make sure the updated version takes the place of the earlier upload? Thank you. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif


[This message has been edited by Paladin (edited 10-12-2002).]

ok fair enough, but just for history's sake, the order didnt grow to more than 30 till after 1120 and wasnt recognized as an actual ordained order until even later. depending on whom you ask, there were only 8 or 9 knights in 1119, but now, people are saying closer to 30. The hospitaller knights were already around (since like 1070), but only as a hospital for the sick and didnt begin engaging in any hostile military actions until at latest 1126 where there are written down commitments to protecting christian pilgrimsen route to outremer in the orders records.

- Those two orders for the sake of arguement could be played earlier in the game as creative anachronisms can be fun, but my two biggest problems (aside from being obsessive about trivial history) are the teutonic and santiago orders. the Teutonic knights were initially seen as th Hospital of St mary of the Germans in 1197. In 1199, they were officially recognized as an ordained brotherhood. The Order of St james of the Sword (santiago) was first seen in 1158 near caeres in castile. they were officially recognized by the pope in 1175 and their "Rule" was changed from that of st augustine to the rule of the Templars. I know it gets confusing but these two orders simply cannot be in an early medieval game. Its like saying that there were sub-machineguns in the american civil war.

just constructive points im trying to make - even if they are in the game, i still appreciate your work and its the only mod i use. Good fun

also, this idea was dismissed in my previous thread on the subject, but is there any way to make the orders mantles (clothing under the cloak) look different from the kings men and more historically accurate in battle? i dont know about the other orders, but Templars were forbidden to remove their white mantle with red cross at any time, even during sleep AND WHERE ARE THEIR BEARDS!!!!!???????? these are a bunch of bad templars in this game and since the teutonic knights and santiago order were based on the rule of the temple, i dont think their grand master would be too pleased

i could go on and on

[This message has been edited by TuffStuffMcGruff (edited 10-12-2002).]

TuffStuffMcGruff:

Quote ok fair enough, but just for history's sake, the order didnt grow to more than 30 till after 1120 and wasnt recognized as an actual ordained order until even later. depending on whom you ask, there were only 8 or 9 knights in 1119, but now, people are saying closer to 30. The hospitaller knights were already around (since like 1070), but only as a hospital for the sick and didnt begin engaging in any hostile military actions until at latest 1126 where there are written down commitments to protecting christian pilgrimsen route to outremer in the orders records.
- Those two orders for the sake of arguement could be played earlier in the game as creative anachronisms can be fun,...[/QUOTE]

As I explained above, the Order Knights do in fact show up around the appropriate times. In 1113, you have the first papal privilege for the Hospital of St John. But keep in mind that the modifications were actually meant so that you can bring Feudal Knights into the game at the historically correct time not to try and circumvent the introduction of the Orders.

As I said earlier, it's still going to be at least 1104 before you can launch a crusade anyway. And that's assuming that you are seriously intent on doing it as soon as possible. So, yes, in that case the Orders may come a few years earlier, but so what? How does that affect the game in any serious fashion? I don't think that it does. I mean, the moment you start playing the game you are changing history so this is just another instance where the actions of the Player cause events to change.


Quote ...but my two biggest problems (aside from being obsessive about trivial history) are the teutonic and santiago orders. the Teutonic knights were initially seen as th Hospital of St mary of the Germans in 1197. In 1199, they were officially recognized as an ordained brotherhood. The Order of St james of the Sword (santiago) was first seen in 1158 near caeres in castile. they were officially recognized by the pope in 1175 and their "Rule" was changed from that of st augustine to the rule of the Templars. I know it gets confusing but these two orders simply cannot be in an early medieval game.[/i]

Once again, in the Early game that comes with MTW you can create a Crusade by 1147, so right there, the game allows the Knights of Santiago to come in earlier than is historically correct. However, historically, there were Feudal Knights in the early part of the period, so what are we supposed to do? Are we supposed to play out the Feudal Age without Feudal Knights just to make sure that the Orders don't come into play a few years earlier? I don't think so, hence the changes.

Quote:

---

just constructive points im trying to make - even if they are in the game, i still appreciate your work and its the only mod i use. Good fun

---

Excellent, and I appreciate that very much. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif Your insight is very helpful.


Quote also, this idea was dismissed in my previous thread on the subject, but is there any way to make the orders mantles (clothing under the cloak) look different from the kings men and more historically accurate in battle? i dont know about the other orders, but Templars were forbidden to remove their white mantle with red cross at any time, even during sleep AND WHERE ARE THEIR BEARDS!!!!!???????? these are a bunch of bad templars in this game and since the teutonic knights and santiago order were based on the rule of the temple, i dont think their grand master would be too pleased[/QUOTE]

The pictures would have to be edited. In order to do so, you would have to have an editor for the .tga files.

i found that all of the mounted order knights use the same model as most of the other mounted knights. so to alter them would make almost all of the other mounted knights look the same - i wonder how to get around this (the files are in the textures/men folder and are .bif files)

am i looking in the wrong place?

If you download and install this mod will you need to swap out files in order to play multiplayer?

Also what factions would you recommend as being more challenging under your mod?

[This message has been edited by Action (edited 10-12-2002).]

Hi Paladin,

I'm replying here, rather than in the Turkish topic, as it seems more appropriate.

No, I'm not playing with the latest version of 1092 that has no spies and FKs available. I'd already started a campaign as the Egyptians ...

Which I've given up on, for the moment. The Byz are just SO tough. Instead I started a campaign AS the Byzantines (which I had been saving for later, as I've always wanted to play them) to see how it is from their perspective and see if it's my poor play as the Egyptians or the good troops of the Byz.

So far, it's looking like it's the good toops. I have sat on my initial provinces as the Byz and was at peace for a long time (till something like 1120), but then they invaded Con with 2500 men.

It's 1131 and I've stood off 3 huge invasions of Turks at Con, resulting in around 100 casualties for me and about 1,000 killed and captured for them. I didn't invade for a long time, as I'm trying to build up my bank. With so few provinces (though I did buy Kiev) my finances are more on a knife edge. I've been building ships like a crazy man to establish my trade net.

However, in 1125 the Egyptians attacked the Turks and have been chewing on them big time, after easily rousting a large French crusade going to Tripoli. The French had asked my permission and I let them through. Didn't really want to fight them and become weakened.

BTW, the Egyptians have taken Tunisia and Cyranea (sp?) in this game, too. I start making emesaries as soon as I can and flood the map so I can keep track of things and get a head's up on incoming crusades.

I figure I'll go back to the Egyptians when I have a better handle on Hard. I really need to find a way to hold off the Byzantines to continue that game and I just don't know what it would be. I have too many provinces to defend, even though I might be able to take on their whole army with mine.

I think I don't have enough of right troops. This war with the Byz came MUCH earlier than I would have wanted. Though the Turks have reappeared (Greece and Anatolia, fortunately), so maybe that will help. Also, I'm winning the war at sea, so if I can force my way into the Black Sea I could send a Jihad there to help.

More news as it happens,
V'ger gone

Action:

If you download and install this mod will you need to swap out files in order to play multiplayer?

I'm not sure about that but I assume it should be OK.

Can anyone else answer that question?


Quote Also what factions would you recommend as being more challenging under your mod?[/QUOTE]

I'm a big Byzantine fanatic so I have exclusively been playing them but I have noticed that the Almohads seem to have a hard time even though they still take over the Iberian Penninsula.

I think the latest update really changes things so it's up in the air as to who will come out on top.

V'ger, thanks again for the info. Yes, the Byzantines are formadible if allowed to sit there unchallenged. The key to defeating them is strike them early and constantly. The first time I tried the 1092 campaign as the Byzantines, I almost lost Constantinople early on to the Turk menace. It was by the skin of my teeth that I kept it. The AI was doing it right. If I had lost it, the show would have been over because as the Byzan., you really need the money to support your forces. Those Kataphratoi's aren't cheap, as you know.

As it worked out, the Battle of Constantinople so weakened the Turks that it left them open for attack. But here's the kicker: In that game, I was still using Spies to create rebellions so I never had to risk troops until much later when I had built up my provinces. That's the dumb part of having Spies. They are simply too strong. I conquered the map easily using them whereas normally, there's no way I could have done it like that. Hence, their subsequent removal in the latest update.
At your earliest opportunity, try the new version with the "no spies" and "Feudal Knights" update. That should make things even more interesting.

It seems that maybe in your game as the Egyptians, the Turks may not have been smart enough or hostile enough to beat the Byzant. thus making it possible for their enormous strength. But, as you stated, the Turks are re-emerging so there's no way of knowing how this will end.

Thanks again for the feedback. Please let me know your thoughts about the update when you have a chance.

[This message has been edited by Paladin (edited 10-14-2002).]

Hi,

I will try your update when I finish this game. Have you seen the Elmos take Tunisia more often then not? I've only played the 2 campaigns (Byz and Egyptian, rotating now) and the Elmos didn't take it either time. Of course, that's not much of a statical sample.

My Egyptian campaign has gotten more interesting, as you will see if you look at the Turkish thread you replied to. The French seem to have become the Hojos in these 2 games, from what I can see.

I do SO wish we could see what was happening in games without having to send agents all over creation.

You know, I had thought that spear units would be the answer to all heavy cav, but after playing with and against the Kats I'm coming to think that AP is better.

Back to the fight,
V'ger gone

Hello again, Paladin,

Thank you for your continued work. I was wondering if you knew of a tutorial on editing the building and units files? I'd like to mod your mod so that all the major and minor Catholic factions can create crusades. I'd also like to make it so that they can produce Crusader units after getting to some level of higher tech, say in the Citadel level.

I know that neither of these would be particularly historical, but I think they would make it more fun. I'd really like to try playing Aragon, Nov, maybe Sicily, but the crusades are too much fun to give up.

I also love the Aragon shield and colors. The next best to Novgorod, IMO, though they are all good.

Now, if only I could give Spain and England different colored tops on their unit bases like all the other countries have.


Back to the front,
V'ger gone

V'ger

Quote I will try your update when I finish this game.[/QUOTE]

OK, great, thank you.


Quote Have you seen the Elmos take Tunisia more often then not?[/QUOTE]

Yes, each time, they have stepped in and taken it.


Quote My Egyptian campaign has gotten more interesting, as you will see if you look at the Turkish thread you replied to. The French seem to have become the Hojos in these 2 games, from what I can see.[/QUOTE]

Yes, the French went nuts in every game I've played with the 1092 campaign. But keep in mind that I cut off their Flanders to Wessex link so the only way they can invade is with some ships. Plus, the other factions can now build Feudal Knights much sooner so let's see how that balances out the game.


Quote I do SO wish we could see what was happening in games without having to send agents all over creation.[/QUOTE]

Two things: I always create large fleets to sail around Europe for the trading aspect but it also helps me see what's going on in the coastal regions.

Secondly, if you type everything between the quotes: ".matteosartori.", you will be able to see what's in all the provinces. It's a cheat which I don't think is really a cheat at all. Now, the one weird thing is that sometimes your ships may disappear and then you have to type in that same sequence again to reverse the process. But this is a great way to be able to watch what's going on all over the map. Otherwise, early on it can be quite boring not knowing what's going on.


Quote I was wondering if you knew of a tutorial on editing the building and units files?[/QUOTE]

No, not that I know of.


Quote I'd like to mod your mod so that all the major and minor Catholic factions can create crusades.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure how to do that.


Quote I'd also like to make it so that they can produce Crusader units after getting to some level of higher tech, say in the Citadel level.[/QUOTE]

When you say Crusader units, do you mean the ability to call a Crusade or Templar Knights and others? That can be done but why would you do that?


Quote Now, if only I could give Spain and England different colored tops on their unit bases like all the other countries have.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I agree.

UPDATE CORRECTION:

Guys, in my last update, I added horse breeders to the provinces of factions that can build Feudal Knights, however, I didn't put in the right code for the proper horse breeder. I fixed that as of today and uploaded the corrected zip file.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Paladin, love your new campaign but a yesterday i downloaded the newest one and I get this error:

COLUMN_building_influences

unknown building declared as building influence: column 11, row 12
{BROTHEL(100)}

you know what it is or means and how to fix it.

as the aragonese in your mod i am abl to create crusades, so i would assume sicily and hungary etc can do it to

Hi,

Yeah, Tuff, I saw that. I went in a modded buildins and units and changed a bunch of stuff. I wanted to make all units (well, except naptha and hashasins) that same size (60).

I also wanted to make sure all Catholic factions could call crusades. Lastly, I wanted all Catholic factions to be able to produce crusader units eventually. I've set the tech required to Citadel-level buildings. I've also made footnights buildable.

Last, but not least, I gave Tunisia back to the Elmos. At least, I've done all this in theory.

Once I've done this to Paladin's new files I may start yet another campaign to see if my mods took.

BTW, Pal, I don't have a problem with the French going nuts. That's probably more realistic than it was before.

I'm doing well with the Egyptians now and the Byz are relegated to Bulgaria and Serbia, but I can't continue because I CTD when trying to run the next turn (on the assault of Constantinople).

Adios,
V'ger gone

UPDATE CORRECTION:

srg3037:

Quote Paladin, love your new campaign but a yesterday i downloaded the newest one and I get this error:
COLUMN_building_influences

unknown building declared as building influence: column 11, row 12
{BROTHEL(100)}

you know what it is or means and how to fix it.[/QUOTE]


Yes, sorry about that. I have fixed it. Please feel free to download it again.

i cant play the new version that you uploaded, it gives me a problem with the brothel and i cant even start the main menu

uh oh - btw v'ger - id love to be able to put one of each order in almost every crusade
like only give HRE teutonic knights, seargants, templars, hospitaller knights/seargeants and templars (no santiago) etc. id give every catholic "country" templars and hospitallers and the aragonese and castilians santiago orders as well. The HRE are the only ones who should have teutonic knights - could you do that in the game v'ger or paladin? - it would be more accurate as the temple and hospital had preceptorys in almost every (if not every) catholic province


[This message has been edited by TuffStuffMcGruff (edited 10-15-2002).]

Tuff,

Well, if my mod works I can. I'm going to redo my mods to Pal's update and see what happens now.

So many mods,
So little time,
V'ger gone

Paladin,

Again thanks for this awesome mod. But alas, there is still a problem (at least for me). The newest build of the mod fixes the brothel problem but now I cant advance to the next year (turn 2) wihtout it crashing to desktop. It does it with any faction.

Any ideas and can someone else replicate this problem.

Hi,

Just tried to run with all my stuff in on top of yours, Pal and got a building file error column 5 row 21 and then a floating point value begining at 6.

I'm trying my stuff on your previous version, which I know worked before I started messing with things.

Ciao,
V'ger gone

UPDATE CORRECTION:

Guys, sorry about that screw up. I fixed it and play tested to make sure there's no problems. You can still build a brothel but it's not good for anything else except whoring. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif

Go ahead and download again.

Hi,

Just tried the new version (files dated Oct. 15?). Tried Aragon and Spain. Aragon loaded, but when I set a few units to build and hit end turn I got CTD. Spain dropped me to the desktop before I got to the campaign map. Before I go to work on your files I'll need to know it's not just me.

I'm going to go back to the version I was playing, just before you removed spies, since I know that one works and put in my changes to see if MY stuff works. Then I'll be ready to put my stuff with your stuff.


Be kind to your web-footed friends,
V'ger gone

Hi,

Well, it's my bad, as I expected. I didn't quite understand how to edit and thought I could use Works and save as tab delimited text, which doesn't work. Instead I put my changes into the last 1092 before the nospies version by using Notepad.

Boy, what a pain. In any event, I appear to have everything done correctly. Now that I know what's what, I could put these changes into whatever mod, but may hold off for the patch.

My changes:

All Catholic factions, including minors, like Sicilian, can crusade.

All units except for naptha and hashashins are 60 men. (I did not change support costs, as I am unsure what the lookup table is like, so those heavy cav are harder on the pocketbook over time.)

All begining units are 60 men, except as previously noted.

All foot knights can be built.

All crusader units can be built by the "proper" faction. You'll have to build a level 3 castle, royal court 3, spearmaker 3 and chapter house, though fanatics only require the chapter house.

The Danes, Polish, Sicilians and Hungarians get the crusader units of the HRE/Italians.

Sicilians can also produce Italian light inf.

Hungarians can also produce Boyars.

Sicilian, Polish and Hungarian factions can build Gothic foot, sergeants and knights.

Templars have the correct (8) charge bonus.

You must own Switzerland to build their units.

Feudalfoot require swordsmith2, armourer2 and royal court2.

Teutonic knights, sergeants and foot can be built by the Danish, Hungarians and Polish, as well as the Germans.

Gothic knights, sergeants and foot can be built by the Danish, Hungarians, Polish and Sicilians, as well as Germans and Italians.

Order foot require royal court2, spearmaker3 and armourer3.

I think that's everything, but I'll edit this after a bit if I find something else.

Work, work, work,
Work, work, work
V'ger gone

OK, so is the 1092 campaign working OK after the latest corrections I made?

Paladin, first off great job on the fixes. But one thing I've noticed about the most resent addition is that I cant build assassins. I know you disabled spies but my assassin seem to have gotten the axe also. And right now I got a real big problem with inquistors running around my country burning my poor generals. I also, I dont know if everyone else has noticed this but I've played the various releases of your fixes and England seem to be very powerful. Everytime I've played they've always gotten real uppity and crushed the poor Froggies.

[This message has been edited by Coug (edited 10-17-2002).]

Hi,

So far as I can see, my mods work. I'm playing Sicilians and can/have built a crusade and fanatics. I'm still working on the buildings for the various special units, but some of the foot knights and the Hospitallers show up when you right-click on the proper buildings.

I would like to know if I need to change the personalities of the normally non-crusading factions so that they are a crusader or not. I noticed that the Italians aren't and they can/do launch crusades, though not as often, which is what would be about right for all these other factions.

Vaya con AUM,
V'ger gone

Coug

Quote Paladin, first off great job on the fixes. But one thing I've noticed about the most resent addition is that I cant build assassins.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I just fixed it.


Quote And right now I got a real big problem with inquistors running around my country burning my poor generals.[/QUOTE]

That's just the game doing it naturally. I haven't done anything to inquistors. This sort of thing happened to some degree historically so it's best to have fun with it.


Quote I also, I dont know if everyone else has noticed this but I've played the various releases of your fixes and England seem to be very powerful. Everytime I've played they've always gotten real uppity and crushed the poor Froggies.[/QUOTE]

The strategy to dealing with the English is to remove Normandy as a base as soon as possible and engage them on the seas as soon as possible. This is why the French fought so long with them over so many years. The game is now more historcially accurate because before the mod, the English were getting trounced fairly well since all the French had to do was waltz right into Wessex. The English used to be pretty easy to beat but not anymore.

Coug,

Keep some bishops and cardinals with your generals, that'll help.

Paladin,

I'm not using your latest mod for my work. I did what I did to the last version of 1092 before you took spies out.

I can put my stuff in your current version, which I presume is at your site? (I think I already downloaded it before starting all this modding, but will get it again to make sure.)

Thing is, the way agents work right now, I'm not much inclined to play with them. Now, when we can stack them and/or filter after the patch, then I'll go back to playing with them.

Assuming my mod continues to work, what's the proceedure for uploading it here?

Hasty pudding,
V'ger gone

You have to upload at your own website.