Re: How Will Allowing Gays to Openly Serve Effect Combat Readiness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rhyfelwyr
30% of female soldiers are raped and all you say is "so"? ~:confused:
And I really doubt 30% of male soldiers have been raped. So this is an example of why female soldiers might not be as ideal.
I'm not saying female soldiers can't do just as good a job, but the above problems have to be taken into consideration.
Because it is the females fault they are raped and not the male rapists, right? So stop the females going in army opposed to dealing with the males.
Re: How Will Allowing Gays to Openly Serve Effect Combat Readiness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beskar
Because it is the females fault they are raped and not the male rapists, right? So stop the females going in army opposed to dealing with the males.
I invoke Fragony's classic leftist reflex here. I thought I had taken care to point out how females do their duty just fine, and is indeed males that are the problem.
This is the army we are talking about, practical considerations must come before idealistic attempts to make the army reflect developments in society. There you have clear evidence that 30% of women have been raped (and that's the official figures, when it's thought that most aren't even reported). So what's going to be done about it?
Do you purge the military of all men who sexually assault women? I really doubt that would even work on a practical level, imagine the reaction a female would get once some of the men were sent home. She would probably not dare act in the first place.
Or do you try to separate men and women? But that would cause all sorts of logistical problems. Or maybe just let things continue as they are, even when things are that bad?
Re: How Will Allowing Gays to Openly Serve Effect Combat Readiness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rhyfelwyr
I invoke Fragony's classic leftist reflex here. I thought I had taken care to point out how females do their duty just fine, and is indeed males that are the problem.
This is the army we are talking about, practical considerations must come before idealistic attempts to make the army reflect developments in society. There you have clear evidence that 30% of women have been raped (and that's the official figures, when it's thought that most aren't even reported). So what's going to be done about it?
Do you purge the military of all men who sexually assault women? I really doubt that would even work on a practical level, imagine the reaction a female would get once some of the men were sent home. She would probably not dare act in the first place.
Or do you try to separate men and women? But that would cause all sorts of logistical problems. Or maybe just let things continue as they are, even when things are that bad?
An there was me thinking the point of having soldiers was for them to take orders?????? If soldiers are raping women either women colleagues or civilians then there is a serious lack of discipline in your units and that has to be tackled and quick. Since a large amount of military work is now more like a souped up police force having eejits raping women is the last thing you want in a milliatary
Re: How Will Allowing Gays to Openly Serve Effect Combat Readiness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rhyfelwyr
30% of female soldiers are raped and all you say is "so"? ~:confused:
I have never been in an army where 30% of the female soldiers are raped and I do not know of one where that happens. Hence the "so?".
The rape figures for women in the Norwegian army is very, very low. I have heard of just a few cases of it happening. And no, Norwegian males are certainly no supermen in any way.
Re: How Will Allowing Gays to Openly Serve Effect Combat Readiness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoreTore
I have never been in an army where 30% of the female soldiers are raped and I do not know of one where that happens. Hence the "so?".
The rape figures for women in the Norwegian army is very, very low. I have heard of just a few cases of it happening. And no, Norwegian males are certainly no supermen in any way.
Those were official figures from the article, must have been either US/UK military...
Re: How Will Allowing Gays to Openly Serve Effect Combat Readiness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rhyfelwyr
I invoke Fragony's classic leftist reflex here. I thought I had taken care to point out how females do their duty just fine, and is indeed males that are the problem.
This is the army we are talking about, practical considerations must come before idealistic attempts to make the army reflect developments in society. There you have clear evidence that 30% of women have been raped (and that's the official figures, when it's thought that most aren't even reported). So what's going to be done about it?
Do you purge the military of all men who sexually assault women? I really doubt that would even work on a practical level, imagine the reaction a female would get once some of the men were sent home. She would probably not dare act in the first place.
Or do you try to separate men and women? But that would cause all sorts of logistical problems. Or maybe just let things continue as they are, even when things are that bad?
I am reminded of a incident in England, unfortantely, cannot remember the name, but they put a curfew on all women for going outside past 10pm, because of the late night rapists, and they arrested women for going out, saying it is "part of protecting them". Then led to a feminist backlash, arguing that shouldn't the men not be placed under curfew then, as they are the ones doing the raping and not the women.
In short, you are punishing women because of the acitivities of the men. Might not be your intention, but that is what you are advocating.
Re: How Will Allowing Gays to Openly Serve Effect Combat Readiness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beskar
In short, you are punishing women because of the acitivities of the men. Might not be your intention, but that is what you are advocating.
Do you have a better solution?
Re: How Will Allowing Gays to Openly Serve Effect Combat Readiness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rhyfelwyr
Those were official figures from the article, must have been either US/UK military...
Since we've gone all "hetero" now I'll weigh in with an 80% answer: There is no rape in the U.S. military. Classic, military, "rape" only happens when some chick's husband returns from deployment and finds out she's having sex with someone else. Then it magically becomes rape.
Re: How Will Allowing Gays to Openly Serve Effect Combat Readiness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
alh_p
Would that last not also apply to women in the Armed Forces too?
Sure. Let all those who CAN shoot the big guns do it too. No need to keep 1 part of the military in purely defensive mode due merely to the number of x-chromosomes they carry. In my opinion.
Not many female finance clerks can carry a 70-pound rucksack and assault a bunker successfully, any more than the average male supply clerk. But some can. Let 'em, sez I.
Re: How Will Allowing Gays to Openly Serve Effect Combat Readiness?
As if gay soldiers aren't professionals. It's np in the Neds. But what always amazes me is that there's made a point out of it, what's so wrong with don't ask don't tell when the army basically demands from all to become something they arent at the time. Kinda ambigious.
Re: How Will Allowing Gays to Openly Serve Effect Combat Readiness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fragony
As if gay soldiers aren't professionals. It's np in the Neds. But what always amazes me is that there's made a point out of it, what's so wrong with don't ask don't tell when the army basically demands from all to become something they arent at the time. Kinda ambigious.
Because people lose their jobs when someone eventually finds out that they're gay.
Re: How Will Allowing Gays to Openly Serve Effect Combat Readiness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoreTore
Because people lose their jobs when someone eventually finds out that they're gay.
That's rediculous ofcours but how about some laissez faire, just start ignoring it, they also don't have to wear a sabre in court anymore.
Re: How Will Allowing Gays to Openly Serve Effect Combat Readiness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fragony
That's rediculous ofcours but how about some laissez faire, just start ignoring it, they also don't have to wear a sabre in court anymore.
"Don't tell, don't ask" isn't a policy that promotes, silence, Fragony.... It's a policy that says once someone find out you're gay, you're fired. It basically demands celibacy, because your ability to keep relationships secret is limited. One year without sexual/romantic contact is easy. But 5 years? 10 years? a Lifetime of service? Look at the catholic priests to see how that turns out...
Re: How Will Allowing Gays to Openly Serve Effect Combat Readiness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HoreTore
"Don't tell, don't ask" isn't a policy that promotes, silence, Fragony.... It's a policy that says once someone find out you're gay, you're fired. It basically demands celibacy, because your ability to keep relationships secret is limited. One year without sexual/romantic contact is easy. But 5 years? 10 years? a Lifetime of service? Look at the catholic priests to see how that turns out...
There is absuletely something twisted about but if you think in baby-steps and want any results, just let things be. Making a point of it creates opposition, when nobody should give a crap.
Re: How Will Allowing Gays to Openly Serve Effect Combat Readiness?
Served with a gay guy. This did not cause one problem what so ever, either for me or the platoon at large :)
But then, Sweden is not all Taliban about it...
Re: How Will Allowing Gays to Openly Serve Effect Combat Readiness?
But still,
INCOMMIMG
DOWDOWN
close up the gab, close up the gab
Re: How Will Allowing Gays to Openly Serve Effect Combat Readiness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fragony
But still,
INCOMMIMG
DOWDOWN
close up the gab, close up the gab
I take pride in the fact I can usually decipher your input, but I admit: this time you have me stumped.
Wut?
Re: How Will Allowing Gays to Openly Serve Effect Combat Readiness?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KukriKhan
I take pride in the fact I can usually decipher your input, but I admit: this time you have me stumped.
Wut?
sorry my bizar sense of humour, explaining it will make it only worse. Going to bed my about time, apoligies
