Medmod IV v3.14 Update

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Old Templar @ Dec. 05 2003,14:52)][DnC] - I do not understand why you can not open Wes' files with the Gnom Editor. Go to startpos, highlight MMEarly, right klick and choose "Open with", highlight "Notepad" and Bingo. I hope, this is what you are looking for.

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It gives an error noting that the file is incorrectly formatted.

And I can now actually see what the problem is. Should have compared the MM build prod file with the original. Am too busy modding though http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif

Wes,

I would appreciate it if you could send EditPlus2 to daviddnc@hotmail.com (if the file isn't big enough, or else I'll give another mail via PM - don't want spambots to pick it up) or post it here http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (WesW @ Dec. 06 2003,09:01)]Jacques, you are right about the Baronial Court. I just can't seem to remember that I need to check the buildings text whenever I fool with that improvement. I have just brought it up-to-date. It's easy enough to fix yourself if you don't want to wait for the next update. Just search for Royal_Court, whole word only, and paste this over the last section of the entry:

"{FN_ARAGONESE, FN_BURGUNDIAN, FN_DANISH, FN_ENGLISH, FN_FRENCH, FN_GERMAN_HRE, FN_HUNGARIAN, FN_ITALIAN, FN_PAPIST, FN_POLISH, FN_SICILIAN, FN_SPANISH, FN_SWISS, FN_NOVGOROD, FN_RUSSIAN},{FN_ARAGONESE, FN_BURGUNDIAN, FN_DANISH, FN_ENGLISH, FN_FRENCH, FN_GERMAN_HRE, FN_HUNGARIAN, FN_ITALIAN, FN_PAPIST, FN_POLISH, FN_SICILIAN, FN_SPANISH, FN_SWISS, FN_NOVGOROD, FN_RUSSIAN},{FN_ARAGONESE, FN_BURGUNDIAN, FN_DANISH, FN_ENGLISH, FN_FRENCH, FN_GERMAN_HRE, FN_HUNGARIAN, FN_ITALIAN, FN_PAPIST, FN_POLISH, FN_SICILIAN, FN_SPANISH, FN_SWISS, FN_NOVGOROD, FN_RUSSIAN},{FN_BURGUNDIAN, FN_FRENCH, FN_GERMAN_HRE, FN_ITALIAN, FN_POLISH, FN_SICILIAN, FN_RUSSIAN}"

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I changed it the day after I found the error. It was interesting because I never realized that you could change the build_prod file "in game" and have the change take place. I do appreciate you advising me on how to correct that though. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif

Wes if you could post your stx file here that would be great.

I'll post it as a separate thread here in the Lab, since it's a pretty long file.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (A_B @ Nov. 28 2003,10:18)]OK, another of my periodical and radical suggestions;

Remove all siege and artillery weapons from the game. The AI doesn't know how to use them. The Mongols routinely have 4 to 6 morters in thier starting roster when they attack, making it quite easy to beat them piecemeal. Othere factions build too many of them, and it is easy enogh to manuever around the big ones in a battle. Also, the AI doesn't use them that well in sieges.

If they are removed, all open field battles are enhanced. Castles can still be assaulted, but it is very costly to attack the larger type. However, i think this is a good thing. Assaulting was always too easy for the human - line up 8 large cannon and 8 good melee units and in you go.

I've removed them in my current game and the challenge is better.

AB

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Hello all, TS checking in, about to put HW2 aside for a few and play a Campaign....

I'm with A_B

I virtually always play from the Early Period and only use Catapults to take "stone" Castles (and usually bring them in on the second turn after defeating the defending army, and send them scurring to the Castle. Its rare for me to invest florin in developing beyond the base Catapult.

As it is, taking Castles really isn't all that *costly* in a well-planned campaign. I often have a peasant army and a couple catapults availble to do the dirty work. I'll pull out my *attacking* force and put in the peasant/catapult force to actually take the castle. [I've recently stated to perfect this technique, before I stopped playing MTW (moving onto HW2). If I recall correctly, the reason I started to do this was, often, playing HC Rules and the MedMod with Sicily, I found the strong need for a *full* stack army (couln't afford to waste one or two units spots in a stack for catapults) and to preserve as many my best troops as possible. So, after *winning* the battle, I began to experiement with pulling out my elite troops and taking the castel with pesants/catapults. Of course, I'd lose a few, but less than if I put them to the walls.

Sooo, removing Siege Engines would resolve the issue of the AI building too many, and/or the AI wasting *Stack* spots with value-less Siege Engines. Thus, making for a more formidable AI force.

The cost is a higher *causualty* penality when taking Large castles. This, imho, is a fair trade. While, also, increasing the value of *Castling*, and making the effort/cost to take a Castle more realistic; AND more *strategic* as well

Of course, this will more than likely effect the developement and strategy of the whole campaign.

Obviously, the Catapult/King hunters will whine.

Certainly, it s/b playtested.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Is there any way to make them useless against people but gd vs walls? In real life they would be all-but useless against small targets, but stationary castles are different. The really big ones would just be too good otherwise.

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I wonder. Imagine taking Constantinople, of course, first you'd have to wear down the Byz or whomever, and then come with a HORDE of peasant, etc. Quite real, don't you think? It would take a great deal more planning, thereby making the Campaign more *strategic*. No?

I wonder how it would effect a High Era campaign, though?

Hmmm...wonder if its possible to restrict Siege Engines to *eras*?

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Yeah, that would be pretty radical, and it would certainly make the game more challenging. Perhaps TS will add it to his list of hardcore rules. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif

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I saw that

Funny, I wrote all the above before I came to your remarks re moi.

The situation with huge danish fleets were (by necessity) far into the game - over 200 turns. It would take that long to build that big a fleet.

Still the mod is great wes - my latest game as the swiss is a real challenge. I've taken venice and milan from the italians, but still I'm almost out of money and out of options. Thankfully I have five 6+ star generals (my kickass first kings offspring). They've saved my bacon on more than one occation.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (ToranagaSama @ Dec. 08 2003,16:59)]

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (A_B @ Nov. 28 2003,10:18)]OK, another of my periodical and radical suggestions;

Remove all siege and artillery weapons from the game. The AI doesn't know how to use them. The Mongols routinely have 4 to 6 morters in thier starting roster when they attack, making it quite easy to beat them piecemeal. Othere factions build too many of them, and it is easy enogh to manuever around the big ones in a battle. Also, the AI doesn't use them that well in sieges.

If they are removed, all open field battles are enhanced. Castles can still be assaulted, but it is very costly to attack the larger type. However, i think this is a good thing. Assaulting was always too easy for the human - line up 8 large cannon and 8 good melee units and in you go.

I've removed them in my current game and the challenge is better.

AB

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Sooo, removing Siege Engines would resolve the issue of the AI building too many, and/or the AI wasting *Stack* spots with value-less Siege Engines. Thus, making for a more formidable AI force.

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First: Is Column 53 really not used anymore?
If not, then how does the AI determine which unit to use in favor of another (in certain situations)?
Is it just random or hardcoded and out of sight for the likes of us?

Second: If it does work, but hasn't been updated to say it works;

You can also fiddle around with Column 53.
E.g. changing "SKIRMISH(0), ADVANCE_PARTY(1),
OUTFLANKING_FORCE(0), MAIN_BODY(2), HOLD_TERRAIN(0), RESERVE(1), REINFORCEMENT(1), ASSAULT(0), ASSAULT_COVER(0), ASSAULT_COVER_CASTLE_ATTACK(2), COVER(0)" to "SKIRMISH(0), ADVANCE_PARTY(0),
OUTFLANKING_FORCE(0), MAIN_BODY(0), HOLD_TERRAIN(0), RESERVE(1), REINFORCEMENT(0), ASSAULT(0), ASSAULT_COVER(0), ASSAULT_COVER_CASTLE_ATTACK(2), COVER(0)"

..or something like that.

Not entirely sure if this will work, but it might. The AI will now not use siege engines in open battles so often. So just fiddle around and test it out I'd say.

Third: (In combination with - if the above does work) Making siege engines a bit more expensive might also help and/or make changes in Column 15 so the AI is less likely to build siege engines.

Don't count on that I'm right though, I'm just speculating.
I think Wes is more knowlegdable about this.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (ToranagaSama @ Dec. 08 2003,15:59)]

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (A_B @ Nov. 28 2003,10:18)]
As it is, taking Castles really isn't all that *costly* in a well-planned campaign. I often have a peasant army and a couple catapults availble to do the dirty work.

Hmmm...wonder if its possible to restrict Siege Engines to *eras*?

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Ok, let me get this straight: You are playing hardcore rules, and use a cheesy tactic like letting peasants storm the castle walls? (Has images of Halflings with pitchforks storming Helm's Deep) I don't know what to say about that.

And yes, artillery can be restricted by era just like any other unit.

Magraev, if it's taking you more than two centuries to win the game, even when starting out as a "minor" faction.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/rolleyes.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif
Seriously, it is pretty much impossible to control AI behavior or even affect the game much beyond the first 50 to 75 turns. After then, there are simply so many variables in the game there's no telling what will happen, and generally this is a good thing as re-playability goes.

Finally, if anyone has a copy of BKB's mod, I would really like to have the campaign files in the campmap\startpos folder, the Early, High and Late texts, as well as the contents of the Loc\eng folder. He has added a lot of totally new factions from scratch, it seems, and if I could simply copy them to the Medmod, it would save us hours and hours of work. Unfortunately, it seems that he doesn't check in while he is in school, so we can't get hold of him.

I'll try and take a look now if I still have it Wes.

Edit: It appears I apparently deleted it a while ago when I was cleaning my harddrives a bit. Sorry.

Read your mail, Wes.........

only a early campaign in my download of BKB's mod.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif

PS: sent same to Russ, eh?

Wes: said "cheesy tactic" was perfectly acceptable to the first crusdaers in the Albigensian conflict...

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ([DnC] @ Dec. 09 2003,05:06)]First: Is Column 53 really not used anymore?
If not, then how does the AI determine which unit to use in favor of another (in certain situations)?
Is it just random or hardcoded and out of sight for the likes of us?

Second: If it does work, but hasn't been updated to say it works;

You can also fiddle around with Column 53.
E.g. changing "SKIRMISH(0), ADVANCE_PARTY(1),
OUTFLANKING_FORCE(0), MAIN_BODY(2), HOLD_TERRAIN(0), RESERVE(1), REINFORCEMENT(1), ASSAULT(0), ASSAULT_COVER(0), ASSAULT_COVER_CASTLE_ATTACK(2), COVER(0)" to "SKIRMISH(0), ADVANCE_PARTY(0),
OUTFLANKING_FORCE(0), MAIN_BODY(0), HOLD_TERRAIN(0), RESERVE(1), REINFORCEMENT(0), ASSAULT(0), ASSAULT_COVER(0), ASSAULT_COVER_CASTLE_ATTACK(2), COVER(0)"

..or something like that.

Not entirely sure if this will work, but it might. The AI will now not use siege engines in open battles so often. So just fiddle around and test it out I'd say.

Don't count on that I'm right though, I'm just speculating.
I think Wes is more knowlegdable about this.

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Well, it's column 31 in my file, but to the point; this may be the way to go (setting Assault Cover to 0).
Btw, it's the column before this one, 30, which isn't used.

I've been busy researching in light of an ongoing conversation with Russ, so I still haven't tested to see if deleting the Castle Defender designation has the wanted effect. These designations determine where the unit is placed in the formation, so leaving them with only the Missile designation will probably not help things.

Anyway, I would be very interested if you tried your suggestion and reported to see if it did the trick.
Remember that any changes you make to the units text take effect the next time you open the game, so you can make the changes, and then open up a saved game and see the results. Ideally, you would have a save from right before a big battle in which the AI had over 16 units, and some of them were artillery.

Thanks for the files, L'zard. A_B sent a copy, too. I'm glad you sent them to Russ as well, since we'll be discussing new factions and so-forth for the next version of the mod.
I asked A_B to send me the faction sheilds as well, and you need to look over those too, and see how you like them. That should be all I'll need. I hope. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif
I also just finished reading the thread here about bif problems, and it talks about how to correct a failing in bifreader with editing bifs.
FYI, I just looked through the names text, and BKB put in names and such for many more factions than what he chose for the mod, such as Bulgarians and Serbians.

I think it will take some time testing, because I don't have a battle in sight where the AI has siege engines.
I can just start another campaign and try to get what I want.

Anyways, thanks for the reply and if/when I get the desired battle, I'll test it and let you know http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif

hi
i have discovered a bug ive played the byzantines in the High era and want to conquer constantinople back and i couldnt move my troops out of nicäa too consta. but after i have conquered it from trebizond i could move my troops from consta. too nicäa
and a second bug the mh cant remember which faction it was but it was a muslim(turks or egypts) faction who had have the germanic knights in there build qeue

and at least its a great mod http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif no more giant peasant armys, new factions, new units ahhh its great

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif

ChaosDrake-- Both of those changes are intended. The link between Nicea and Constantinople was cut to try and prolong the Byzantines. Germanic Knights were mercenaries much like Swiss Pikemen, as such the Muslim nations can build Germanic Knights.

On another note, I finally won my first campaign ever Took me long enough (1429) MM, normal, high, English. 'Twas a challenge at times, but after taking France it was a little easier.

As you probably know Wes, the Byzantines and the HRE need strengthening. I think the Byzantines can be saved by making them from ORTHODOX_STAGNANT to ORTHODOX_DEFENSIVE or some such thing. Also the Pope (After he was destroyed) rebelled with 2 stacks in EVERY province in Italy Nobody wanted to mess with him after that. The Almohads and the Turks and the Swedes were superpowers. The Almohads died when the Papacy, Crudasder Kingdoms, and Italians attacked them. The Turks got conquered by the Golden Horde, along with the Entire Middle East. The Swedes were defeated by yours truly. In a ironic twist of fate, after the Crudader Kingdoms died, the Sicilians got pushed out of their homelands and were stuck in Antioch, Tripoli, and Constantinople.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif

Hehe, Spain's only province is in Flanders on my game .. imagine that

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/smokin.gif

Actually I do like that the Byzantines Empire the way it is set (doomed most of the time). As you know the Byz Empire did not survive this period after all. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/mecry.gif

Wes, the mod is great. In my game (Byz, hard, early) we are in 1200 and the world map is divided in 7 great powers with very comparable size and might: Spanishs, Frenchs, Danes, Poles, Italians, Russians and Byzantines. It is very nice to see that balance of power developing it self. Putting the concept of core provinces in the game is really working well in my opinion.

It seems, from what I am reading, that it is not always the same factions that are emerging as super powers, unlike it used to be in vanilla MTW. It is the proof that your mod is really good.

Thanks

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif

Can you simply change the 'way' a faction expands? Change the command (Papist_neutral) to (Papist_aggressive)?

Is it that simple?

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif

I don't want the Byzantines to be aggressive, because the would surely conquer a lot. But as it is, they are doomed from the beginning. Remember, Constantinople didn't fall until 1453 (right?). The game does not perfectly reflect history, but I think they should be strenghtened so that they could at least hold their territory.

And yes, it is as simple as setting theer behavior in the startpos file to change the way they behave.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif

In my limited experience it seems to me that the HRE are gangbanged by the multitude of surrounding factions... much like France used to be completely destroyed in vanilla every time.

I think loyalty to a previous owner should be much higher, although that may be hardcoded...

Let me justify it anyway. Consider how many times the Turks and Rus and everyone else were banging on the doors of Constantinople, yet it lasted until the 15th century. This really isn't represented at all in Medmod or MTW, as (has been said) in 2 years Constantinople can be a smouldering ruin...

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (torsoboy @ Dec. 12 2003,16:05)]In my limited experience it seems to me that the HRE are gangbanged by the multitude of surrounding factions... much like France used to be completely destroyed in vanilla every time.

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I agree. I was attacked by the Poles, Swiss, Burgundians, Danes, French, English, Swedes, Hungarians, and Italians by the fifth turn of my Late Expert HRE campaign. Nobody can survive that. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/rolleyes.gif

WesW, do you know the limit on how many battlefield units there can be in the crusaders_unit_prod.txt file?

IIRC Lord Krazy once said something about 200+, but I haven't seen him around for a long time. I noticed that you have 223 units in your MedMod v3.14, have you tried to have more?

I read on the forums recently that the deadpage coordinates text can only handle 256 units, so this would seem to be the limit on battlefield units. There are 32 other units in the Medmod, and probably more in the VI text. I don't know what the total limit is.
There are currently 255 entries in the Medmod units text, so you could probably find out if 256 is the limit pretty easily. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif

You can try changing the faction behaviour settings, but from my experiences they only affect ship dispersion.

That's interesting regarding the Byzantines, since I thought they were doing ok. Who is it that keeps whipping them?

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif

In my experience, usually they sit around and do nothing until they get attacked by the Turks. The Turks will weaken them until a Med sea power destroy Byzantine navies, and then the Russians, Turks and whoever else will gangbang them.

Another thing- I am still not seeing many Crusades. Is it possible to start a crusade marker in a province, if only for the French in Early?

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif

Just some feedback from my current game--

I started as the Egyptians in High (normal) to see how the Crusader Kingdoms were doing. I didn't attack them and secured an alliance with them. They began expanding to Russia and then attacked Hungary. They became the richest nation of the world They have many armies. Of course, it is now 1230 so the Golden Horde have invaded and will probably destroy them. One interesting thing-- The province directly above Syria (can't remember the name ATM) was invaded by the Mongols. They came with 6 stacks full of Napta Throwers. They drove the Tirks out by sheer numbers. Should provide some easy training for my Prince

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif

Hey Wes,
I took a break from my crusader campaign in High. Stopped at about 1330. It was somewhat easy to take over the Egyptians, and then hold off the horde. Of course the horde took almost all their armies out of russia to try and ransack my kingom. For once it seems like your allies will stay allied and help you out with joint invasions. But when they cancel they stay that way. All in all the crusaders are fun to campaign with. (I had added the feudal men at arms to the outremer, which filled out their roster.) The poles were expanding, Itals too, with the swedes being the biggest power everyone else had only a few provinces.
My new campaign as the HRE is a disaster. I couldn't believe the posts about the gang destruction but its true. I tried two campaigns in High (hard). On the 2nd or 3rd turn Poles attacked,next turn Hungary, next France and Itals,then Aragon and Sweden. Within 7 turns I was decimated down to 6 provinces and pow - civil war. Game over.
I tried to make allies with all neighbors and they all refused until I got chopped up. The pope did not xcom anyone even though they continually attacked me. When I counterattacked Poland, my king got xcommed. It's like the HRE is already xcommed, or heretic, or a non-christian country because they all get away with it. Aaaghhh. Did you change something with their religion?
Just started French in High (hard) and everyone is happy to ally including the HRE. It's 1215 and nobody has attacked GM and they still have a couple of allies. Strange, when AI controls HRE they survive. Maybe it's me but could you check it out.
Enough of my rant, your mod rules. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif

Hey Wes u may not remeber me but i regrettably dissed ur mod ova at totalwar.com, any way i juss downlaoded ur latest version and http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/flirt.gif i lurv it juss beuddurful, wen can we expect the next version to fix a few problemos, mostly textual inaccuracies, no matta reely, anyway congratz on an excellentay mod

The guy asking for artillery removal has a point. Yesterday I was campaigning against Turkey as the Byztantines, and for a few battles they were fielding 6-10 catapults and demi-cannons in their opening lineup, leaving them over 15 real units in reserve. It's no fair beating them with such a handicap, so I let their army move to the hills then send in some light cav units to destroy the unguarded arty, but still it's kind of ridiculous that the AI would take a catapult with TWO crew over full units of sipha de porte and saracen infantry... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/rolleyes.gif

If you can't find a better way to prevent the AI from using them, go ahead and remove all arty units except culverins, siege cannons and mangonels.

Glad to see you came around to embrace the mod's concepts, Jay. You have to take a little leap of faith with a mod that changes the game so radically in some areas.

Maximus, you may be on to something with the HRE being unofficially excommed or somesuch. Historically, Barbarossa got excommed, and maybe CA originally wanted the HRE to start the campaign in that state, and something went wrong. I have certainly tried all I know to keep the HRE from getting gang-banged all the time.
Even with all the extra units and buildings I gave them, the HRE is still one of the very hardest factions in the game to play, in any era.

I have been busy trying to implement Russ' historical critique and suggestions for the mod, and it has grown in scope and in difficulty, since I don't want to add any more new units. I had to add one anyway, bringing the units text up to 256 entries. I have now allotted every unit in the game to a faction, including the new ones for the next version.

There have been dozens of unit changes, at least one for every single faction. I have also changed or implemented well over a dozen new features, and I think everyone is going to be excited by them.
It will probably be the weekend before this update is ready, and I want this to be the last one for version three of the mod, though there always seem to be enough little bugs in an update this big to warrant another update/fix.
I also want to clean up all the odds-n-ends I find, like with the initial public release, and that always takes a lot of time. This is actually what I spent much of my time on today.

From what I found perusing BKB's mod, he has done almost all of the research for the factions that I want to add for version four, so hopefully the main task in getting the new ready will be debating exactly which factions to add and which provinces they will control.
By this time we should have enough feedback from you guys to judge how the 3.15 new concepts have worked, so that I can release version four without any betas. Hopefully I can have this out by New Year's.