It's too easy not to make this kind of decision...
Louis,
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It's too easy not to make this kind of decision...
Louis,
:stares after the running Axeknight, too shocked to say anything:
I ask because this is the kind of scene I hate reading, but other people seem to like. It doesn't achieve anything plot wise, and any information gleaned will be the useless type. I suppose it might be possible to claim the scene is illustrating the changing aspects of their relationship, but even that is not really needed becasue other, more important scenes do that.
It is basically a question of do you want to read a very focused story, or one that elaborates a bit more? I have been mulling the scene over for a few days now, unable to decide whether to include it or not. The crux of the matter is that it is rather pointless, but um, 'nice' or whatever you romance lovers want to call it. This story has a lot of ground to cover, it is already 38 pages long and I estimate it will end up at more than 120 when I reach the possible ending. I don't know whether to build it from just muscle and bone, or to add a bit of fat to the mix. With something this long it looks like a fine balance between lacking detail and making the story so long people get bored.
Add some fat - makes the meat taste better. How philosophical was that? Nice one Axe...
On reflection, I have noticed a rather bizarre coincidence, in that in part 3 of Fitzjohn, there's going to be a marriage of a lesser character (no spoilers). I definately haven't been influenced, as I wrote the scene before I read about Doncho's wedding, but it seems strange, nonetheless...
Now I understand the question better.
If you have been requested to write more love scenes, then you should do so. Personally, I don't care much about such scenes, but I don't mind seeing how it's done.
As for the detailed vs. focused question, I am on Axeknight's side. Details are like flavour to a story, so you shouldn't use them sparingly. Elongation does not have to be bad, as long as it doesn't slow the story very much.
But only you can judge if the scene does that.
A large drop of water dripped from the leaking roof and went straight down the back of Culad’s neck. Ruefully he wiped the water away and stepped over to the side, and sat down on the hay that filled the barn. Margaret stayed by the doorway, watching the rain and wringing her long hair out, trying in vain to stop it dripping in her eyes.
“We needed a bit of rain.” ventured Culad. Margaret combed her hair out with her fingers, and tried to dry her wet hands on her equally sodden dress. Casting a final look at the down pour she wandered over to join Culad, “I’m soaked, my hair will take hours to dry, this barn is…rancid, and yet somehow this is still better than being stuck in a room with Ailbe and friends, hearing about the power of prayer and herbs in conceiving a son.”
“I can think of other things to try first that’d be a sight more effective, unless you’ve some pact going on with the Almighty to be the next Mary.”
Margaret flashed an impish grin at Culad, “Oh no, it’s for yourbenefit. They say if you were capable you’d have a few children by now.”
Culad looked outraged, “Not all of us so hopeless as Donchad the Incautious Why is no one ever thinking of that? It’s just that I’m not so over keen on an army of bastards messing up my inheritance lines, and anyway I’d be having to feed them and find them work – it’s too much hassle” Culad flopped back onto the hay, staring up at the rotting thatch roof. Margaret sat down next to him, “What a lovely afternoon, a brief walk in the sunshine before the heavens opened and now we can enjoy the ambience of decay in this delightful rustic barn while we wait for the rain to stop. You know the moment we make a break for it the rain will start again, so we’ll be soaked a second time?”
“Oh aye, it’s traditional spring happenings; rain, more rain, gap in rain to tempt you out, then even worse rain. It’s probably a good thing you didn’t like any of my usual duke’s day off activities, hunting in this’d be foul.” When Margaret said nothing in reply Culad’s eyes flicked over towards her, and he tried, unsuccessfully, to raise one eyebrow, “Ah, I’ve no idea how you do that eyebrow thing, even if it is looking good and impressive Now as I was going to say, no witty comeback, no comment on how right you were about standing in front of boars with nothing but a spear to protect you being a bad idea?”
Margaret cocked an eyebrow, “No, I know what you were hoping I’d say, and I can also foresee your reply. I’m not walking into that trap so easily.”
“I don’t know what you mean.” innocence dripped off each word.
Margaret snorted rather indelicately, “I’d say that your ideas are bad and we’d have been rained on with all of them. Then you’d point out that at least one of them is better indoors, sticking me in a neat trap. I think not.”
“That suspicious mind of yours is doing you no favours again, I’m meaning playing a board game. If you play draughts outside some sheep’ll come along and eat your counters, and that’s spoiling things.”
Despite herself Margaret laughed, “Does that tongue of yours ever stop lying? You’ll say something then dodge out of your meaning when it looks like I’ll take offence – do you ever think I do this on purpose to see what stupid excuse you’ll come up with next? Sheep”
“And on that note I think I’ll go to sleep – I’m ignoring you until you can play nicely” Culad shut his eyes, and went still. Margaret waited for him to get bored with his act, but he didn’t move for a few minutes. Quietly Margaret picked up a long piece of straw and tickled Culad’s nose with it. His nostrils twitched and his arm shot out and grabbed Margaret, pulling her down on top of him. He aimed a rakish smile at his surprised wife, before kissing her passionately. With some difficulty Margaret twisted half free and lay down next to him, with one of Culad’s arms still around her and resting her head on his shoulder, “So that’s why they have a saying about here, ‘let sleeping dukes lie’.”
“I wasn’t asleep, and what else could I be doing when you torment me so?” Culad scratched his nose with his free hand, “Blast it; that itches”
“You were ignoring me, I had to get your attention somehow.”
“And why would you be wanting my attention?” Culad turned his head to look Margaret in the eye, she blushed and tried to summon a little dignity to her reply, “I have no idea.”
“No?” he kissed her again, “I can think of a few reasons.” he kissed her a third time.
Margaret adroitly applied her elbow to his ribs, “Don’t start that again, I’m beginning to feel like I’ve had this conversation before.” Margaret’s blush deepened, “You certainly picked a romantic location to try your luck”
Culad looked about at the rickety walls, rotting thatch, and missing door, “Oh yes, I’ve a real knack for romance.”
The next day Culad’s entourage moved on to the last important family in Uliad, the seat of Donchad’s elder brother Dunsleive. As usual Donchad rode next to Culad, but today he was silent, with none of his customary humour. Culad had long since given up on trying to talk to his cousin, as all he got in answer was a noncommittal, distracted grunt. After an entire morning of this Donchad finally spoke up, “I need a pay rise.”
“You’ve never said so before, you always said you weren’t wanting one when I offered.”
“Nuala says I’m marshal and should live like it. She’s very, um, set on that.”
“I see no harm, I’ll grant you a new manor, and income to match.”
“I hope to God she doesn’t want more.” exhaustion tinged Donchad’s voice, and he sank back into his listless gloom, ignoring Culad’s questioning glance.
Hmm, not so bad in a way. The ending of their barn scene is perhaps a little abrupt, but I ran out of ideas that aren't needed elsewhere. Ah well, that's it for the side trip, now back to the beaten path...
Oh yes, tell me if that is any better for your clarity issue, Ludens. I have broken things up slightly differently.
Very good, and I was paying special attention to it. At one point only I had some trouble. I am still not 100% sure that Culad said this:Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Nope, that's Margaret talking. If I colour code it it should be obvious how I tried to break it up. Red for what Culad is saying and doing, purple for Margaret:
No?” he kissed her again, “I can think of a few reasons.” he kissed her a third time.
Margaret adroitly applied her elbow to his ribs, “Don’t start that again, I’m beginning to feel like I’ve had this conversation before.” Margaret’s blush deepened, “You certainly picked a romantic location to try your luck”
Culad looked about at the rickety walls, rotting thatch, and missing door, “Oh yes, I’ve a real knack for romance.”
See? A new line when it swaps from one to the other. :sigh: back to the drawing board then http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/gc-wall.gif
I found that part quite understandable; it was Margaret.
Ol' Ludens needs his glasses, methinks... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif
~Wiz
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...embarassed.gif Margaret's blushing must have put me on the wrong track. I can hardly imagine her as someone blushing at her own remarks
Old Voigt? You aren't confusing me with Voigtkampf, are you? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
Gah, I'm not very sharp meself. Argh, killed my own joke GAH
~Wiz http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/gc-lost.gif
Hehe, the blush Ah, thrown by such a small and yet important detail. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-blush.gif
Compare the two similar occasions:
Still holding her hand he looked deep into her eyes, “Stay with me tonight.” Margaret quickly looked away, “Please don’t look at me like that, it’s…frightening.” Culad dropped her hand, stepped back and picked up his cloak, trying to look like he wasn’t bothered. Margaret spoke softly, “I thought we both decided we had suffered enough?” Culad looked up from fastening his cloak pin, “It would be different this time.” he said confidently. Margaret shook her head, “I wish I was so certain as you, all I see is the potential for more pain and I’d rather skip that.”
And then the new bit:
No?” he kissed her again, “I can think of a few reasons.” he kissed her a third time.
Margaret adroitly applied her elbow to his ribs, “Don’t start that again, I’m beginning to feel like I’ve had this conversation before.” Margaret’s blush deepened, “You certainly picked a romantic location to try your luck”
Culad looked about at the rickety walls, rotting thatch, and missing door, “Oh yes, I’ve a real knack for romance.”
Note the difference in what she says and how she says it? The first time she really isn't interested, the mere idea upsets her because, as I keep hinting, things really didn't go too well on their wedding night and she got rather badly hurt, but let's not go into that or I'll wind up going bright red myself Now in today's scene she has...forgotten how bad it was, or at least enough to not want to run at the mere hint of interest, she likes Culad a lot more, and isn't so scared - it's the location she is objecting to. That would be why she is blushing...
Heir problem sorted, methinks. There's a weight off Doncho's mind.
Speaking of the Donch, why's he suddenly become so depressed? He seemed utterly head over heels with Nuala before, but now...?
:fights urge to yell spoilers very loudly: GAH Life is not nearly so simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Slow burning thing, you just got your first hint with “I hope to God she doesn’t want more.” and his sudden need for a pay rise, just wait until you see how this develops over a few years...Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Yeah, I can see where this is going to... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif
~Wiz
What, Nuala's a druggie? And Donchad has to feed her addiction? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
But seriously, if what I think is happening is happening, then this will be very interesting to follow....
That evening Culad was on his way through the narrow, dark corridors of Dunsleive’s stone manor house, heading towards the room he had been given when the door to Donchad’s room flung open, and the marshal staggered out backwards as his young wife advanced on him, “Nuala, be reasonable-” pleaded Donchad. Unable to escape into his own room, and unnoticed by the quarrelling pair, Culad ducked back into the shadows and prayed they would go away before they noticed him. Nuala prodded Donchad in the chest and hissed, “If that pointy faced, ugly old hag has two lady’s maids I want two maids No, three I’m better than her and I’ll have my due”
“Nuala-”
“If you can’t match your brother when you’re a better man than him then you’re not being given your due by Culad, and you’ll have to demand it If your brother can afford to give his wife two maids then you can afford three”
“Dunsleive’s inherited more than me, I’ve had to make my own way.”
Nuala caressed Donchad’s cheek and smiled, “And look how far you’ve gone, marshal.”
Donchad caught her hand and clasped it between both of his; “You shouldn’t get so worked up like that, it worries me.”
Nuala’s lip wobbled and a tear escaped from the corner of her eye, “I’m sorry...I get so…so lonely when you’re not here and…it’s not easy…I feel so ill.” she burst into tears, Donchad pulled her close to him, and she buried her face in his tunic. He stroked her long, blonde hair and said soothingly, “You’ll have your maids then, to keep you company.” Still in each other’s arms Donchad and Nuala went back in to their room and shut the door. Culad seized the chance and made a run for his own room, wrenching the door open, diving through and shutting it as quietly as possible behind him. He exhaled, and sagged back against the door, relieved he had gone unnoticed. It was only when he started to move away from the door that he noticed Margaret sat by a candle, reading a piece of parchment while finishing a bowlful of raspberries. She didn’t look up, but asked with polite interest, “Do you always enter the room in such spectacular style, or is that something special for tonight?”
“I thought the room was empty, you could have given me a heart seizure if I’d not spotted you first”
Margaret neatly placed her reading material on the table next to her and turned her attention to Culad, “I do hope not, we’re getting on so well. It’d be a shame if you spoiled everything by dropping dead.” Culad found the room only had one chair; the one Margaret was perched on, and so he seated himself on the tiny table next to Margaret, nearly knocking the empty bowl onto the floor. Margaret got to her feet, “Oh for heavens sake You have the chair and I’ll stand, or you’ll knock the candle over and burn our host’s home down.”
“Ah, well I’ll be solving our seating problem easily enough now them.” Culad sat down, and pulled Margaret onto his knee. After a slight hesitation she slipped an arm around his shoulders and settled back against his chest. “So what was the cause of your impressive appearance just now?”
“Donchad and Nuala…lover’s tiff, or somesuch right in the middle of my path. They didn’t see me, and I wanted to be sure they had no chance to either. So what’re you doing here?”
Margaret frowned, “You’ve forgotten? You have, haven’t you?”
“No, course not, why would I forget?” Culad’s memory started working overtime, looking for whatever it was he had overlooked. Margaret sat up slightly, “You haven’t? Then what were we supposed to be doing this evening?”
“Er…well we were…going to…” his stalled attempt to trigger a clue died under Margaret’s piercing gaze. Culad switched to plan 2 and began apologising, “Sorry, I’m so busy that my mind’s a thing with holes in”
Margaret seemed furious, until her mask cracked and she laughed, “You’re too easy to bait We have arranged nothing, so you’ve forgotten nothing. I’m disappointed, usually you see through these tricks.”
“I feel so abused.” whined Culad, Margaret just laughed harder.
Culad sniffed and ignored her mirth, pretending he hadn’t just made a prat our of himself, “You’ve still not said why you are here.”
“No, and I’m not likely to since I don’t know why I’m here myself.”
“Oh, right, that’s making perfect sense then.”
“I’m delighted you agree with me.” There was a very long pause as they both waited for the other to say the obvious. In the end Culad decided it was up to him, “You’re not going to say anything, I’m not in the mood for repeating myself yet again, so how about you stay here and we see what happens?”
Margaret studied him through narrowed eyes, “Very clever, if you don’t ask anything specific now I can’t object to anything specific too easily, and if I do try you’ll just claim I’ve got the wrong idea. I’ve remembered why I elected to visit you now - those rumours about Fionghulla’s dead parents sound interesting enough to merit investigation. We could have a kin slayer on our hands, combine that with her innate suspicion and vengeful streak and we could have a problem. If you ever need a new spymaster she’d make a good choice, assuming you don’t want her on trial for murder.”
“Why’re you mentioning that now? And why’d I want to replace you as spymaster anyway, since you’re good at the job?”
“Just keeping you on your toes, and you did ask to be kept up to date with any particularly good information I found.”
“Moreover it’s a handy reason to avoid answering my question.”
“If I stay here I’ll have thrown our hosts out of their second best room for nothing.” She grinned, a fraction of a second later Culad matched her grin with one of his own, “I’ll lock the door then.”
Gah Writing that gave me a real headache, until I remembered that when playing cat and mouse the best way to answer a question is not to say anything at all. And so the much needed heir to froggy controlled Ulster comes one step closer http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/mecry.gif
I'd be interested in hearing those two Nuala theories, to see just how much of the future you have guessed, or how wrong you both are. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/gc-grin.gif You won't get all of the plot arc, but you might be able to get pieces of it. Then, of course, there is this new scene to add in...
Now back to writing the next few scenes, and they should be far easier.
I'm going for the dramatic one:Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Oh Donchad, Nuala said tenderly, linking her arm through his as they walked through the forest. you're such a wonderful man. she gazed into his eyes. Donchad kissed her, and she spoke again. So wise, so brave, such a great warrior. Suddenly, her gaze hardened, You are by far the better man than Culad, yet he is the Duke and you are the marshal. she sighed.
Nuala, Donchad spoke softly, why are you speaking of these things? We are happy, are we not?
Yes, my husband, she fluttered her eyes, but we could so much happier. I could be so much happier.
But how, Nuala?
Oh, if only you were Duke, my Donchad. If only
What? Donchad looked into her eyes, and saw in them what she planned. No. No Nuala. Never
But I have already begun the preparations, my Donchad soon, you will be Duke
Lady MacBeth goes Irish? No, not even close. Well, ok there is a hint of ambition in her but not like that...
The next day, while Culad was off with Dunsleive inspecting the progress on the training grounds the duke had ordered built throughout Uliad, Margaret found herself once again trapped in a room full of women, but for once they weren’t fussing about Nuala. Nuala didn’t seem too happy with this lack of attention, and she sat near the window trying to look dramatically weak and ill. To Margaret’s eternal delight and gratitude Fionnghualla and the four maids ignored this posing, and quietly continued their sewing. Nuala made a ‘brave’ effort to start some polite conversation; “I’ve not yet thanked you, Margaret, for asking duke Culad to give my husband his due. I know you must have bent his ear to make him part with the land, and we’re both deeply grateful.” At the word ‘Culad’ Margaret’s two maids started giggling, though one glare from Margaret shut them up quickly. Margaret forced a polite smile, “Oh don’t thank me, I had nothing to do with Culad’s decision. Just because I am duchess, well it doesn’t mean I have any part in every decision my husband makes.”
Nuala flushed slightly at the emphasis on ‘duchess’, “Of course not, lady Margaret, but I feel it my duty to extend both my own, and my husbands thanks none the less.”
Margaret’s forced smile grew larger, “You are so polite, and so well mannered Nuala. Donchad must consider himself lucky indeed.”
“As I’m sure duke Culad considers himself lucky in you, ladyship.”
Margaret heard more giggling coming from the corner where her two maids were working and glared once again in their direction, “Enough Either get out or shut up, if you’re going to keep giggling every time someone says ‘Culad’ I will replace you Honestly I’ve no idea what’s the matter with you, but it’s damned annoying.” The younger of the two maids made a valiant effort to control herself, but failed and started choking. Rolling her eyes Margaret gestured at the other maid, “Take her away, give her a drink or something before she expires, and don’t come back. At all. You can both find work in the kitchen when we return home.” The older maid helped her friend away; as soon as the door shut behind the pair Margaret noticed Fionnghualla and Nuala were both staring at her.
Margaret went back to her reading, “That’s the last time I take the steward’s advice on hiring maids.” Sensing an opportunity Nuala mopped her brow, “Oh I do feel hot, is it just me or is today unbearably hot?” Neither Margaret nor Fionnghualla looked up and both answered at the same time, “No.”
“Oh, perhaps it’s me then.” Nuala fluttered a piece of cloth in the air before her. When this failed to have the desired effect she tried again, “I think you’ll have to forgive me, and ask the kitchen staff to prepare some light broth for me, for heavier food’ll just upset my stomach and it’d be a shame to spoil that feast you’re planning for tonight.” Fionnghualla kept stitching away, precise and speedy, and there was a hint of something biting in her tone as she spoke, “That’d be a great shame then, but it can’t be helped. Poor dear, you’re suffering so badly, and you’ve another six months to go afore it’ll get any better. I’m sure the mothers do exaggerate greatly when they say it only gets worse.” Nuala looked sympathetic but there was no doubting her own veiled insult, “You’re lucky you never suffered so, lacking children as you are. It’s a mystery why The Lord has chosen to spare you the joys of motherhood, as you’re doubtless worthy of such a blessing.”
Fionnghualla carefully tied off one thread and picked out a new colour from her sewing basket, “Oh there’s no mystery in it so far as I’m concerned, and certainly no disadvantage. When I look at you, and how ill you are and think how long nine months really are when they drag by, slowly, day by day in illness and discomfort, well I see a small bonus.”
“I am sure your husband has been so understanding of your…trouble. It must be hard on him, knowing his line dies with him.”
“Have you seen my husband?” asked Fionnghualla with a slight smirk, “Then perhaps you’ll understand that the trouble, as you’re so eloquently calling it, is solely his own…that big chin, the nose, the limp, greasy hair, the fact he looks like a cat threw him up after eating a bad mouse. Perhaps you’ll also understand that he found a very good reason to keep his distance when I suggested he speak to my parents.” Margaret had been following this exchange with detached interest, but paid special attention to that last comment. Fionnghualla’s parents had both died on the day of her wedding, at their daughter’s hand if Margaret’s suspicions were correct. Having won one round Fionnghualla went for a second victory, “I notice you haven’t any lady’s maids, Nuala. I’m insisting you take both of mine, for you’re needing them more than I.” Nuala started to speak, but Fionnghualla held up a hand and forestalled any argument, “No, I’m adamant – you’re looking so peaky and ailing even though you try to hide it. You’ll take them both, or you’ll risk ending up wrinkled, bloated, and aged, or worse yet dead, because of this difficult pregnancy. I wouldn’t want you to feel hard done by, not while I’m in perfect health.” Nuala excused herself, claiming a sudden feeling of sickness and left the room.
Margaret looked over the top of her papers, “That was mean, she is actually suffering almost as much as she claims…but all the same.” she shook her head in grudging admiration.
Fionnghualla went back to her sewing, “Next time I’m thinking she’ll be a sight more careful where she complains, and how loudly.”
“Just like your husband learned that talking to your parents is not a good thing?” Fionnghualla’s eyes narrowed, “I’d not said if my parents were alive or no, and despite that terrible accident with the bad shrimps during the feast he’d had more than enough time to talk to them and find I’d taken a vow of celibacy and they’d not see it broken, married or not, and that this marriage was a special favour in light of his relentless suit and good prospects.”
“Oh I’m sure that was the case.” Margaret smiled, showing her teeth ever so slightly, “It’s not as if he’d be afraid of a dagger in the dark”
“No.” replied Fionnghualla. Tension hung in the air, both women knew the vow had never existed, and the shrimps had contained poison to remove a pair of parents who had upset a vengeful daughter by forcing her into a marriage she didn’t like, and both knew the other knew. Margaret injected a bit of false pity into her voice, “It’d be a shame if anyone else connected with you in any way died, then rumours would start and being accused of murder would only add to your grief.”
“Yes, it’d be a fair shame to be talked of so. This is my house, and I’m not taking kindly to other’s poking around.”
“I’m the duke’s wife, and that makes all of Ulster my house. I think we understand each other.”
Cat fight, a very polite one but also a dangerous one for all involved. Poor Nuala never stood a chance, far too young and completely outclassed by the other two. That was fun, half an hour to write and not involving any mush of any variety http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/gc-grin.gif
A knocking at the door woke Culad up; by the feeble light he could tell it was barely even dawn yet. He smothered a groan, it was the 2nd of July and he had only just got back from his long tour yesterday. His hopes of staying in bed until a few hours past dawn evaporated as the knocking came again, this time louder. Blearily he wondered how he was going to get up to answer the door without waking Margaret up, since her head was resting on his chest. The question was answered for him when Margaret murmured sleepily, “Either find out what they want or tell them to go away.” Culad weighed his options, he could stay where he was, nice and comfortable or he could get up and his feet would freeze. The person hammered on the door a third time, Culad shouted, “Go to hell” The voice on the other side insisted, “I can’t, Lordship, leastways not ‘till I’ve delivered this message.” Margaret rolled over, dragging the covers off Culad as she went, “Off you go then, have fun.” She apparently went back to sleep. Muttering that this message had better be about the end of the world, or something equally dramatic Culad tugged on his tunic and wandered over to the door. He dragged back the bolt and opened the door a crack, to see a mud spattered young man wearing his colours and holding out a letter. Culad took the note and shut and bolted the door, the messenger hammered on the door again, “Hey, what about my fee?”
“Let sleeping dukes lie, old adage in these parts, and it’s good wisdom too. If this turns out to be worth the trouble I’ll send something down to you at a more civilised hour” Culad sat back down on the bed, examining the wax seal on the letter. Margaret turned over to look at him, “Age old adage? I thought it was not quite two months ago I said that?”
“Our early bird of a messenger’s not knowing that. It’s from Mael-Isu, somehow I’m thinking this isn’t going to be worth the fuss of waking up so early.” Culad broke the seal, folded the piece of parchment out, and struggled to read the bishop’s spidery hand writing in the poor light. He took so long that Margaret impatiently asked, “Well? What’s it say?”
“Sigtryg’s delayed our meeting by two weeks, possibly more. He says his wife’s ill and he won’t leave until she is better.”
“How touching. Delay tactics?”
“Maybe, maybe not. Sigtryg was always a bit funny about family. You send your spies out, then we’ll be seeing how much truth there is in this.”
“Look on the bright side – we get a few more days to rest before we have to leave again.”
“True, now since we’re awake…” Culad tried to kiss Margaret but she batted him away with one hand, exclaiming, “Stubble Either go shave or go away”
When Donchad announced the night before he planned to leave that he was going with Culad to the meeting with Sigtryg, Nuala was not too happy. Donchad tried his best to be encouraging, “You can come with us again.” he coaxed, tilting her chin up so she had to look at him, “You’d like that.”
“You’re knowing as well as I, I’m in no fit state to travel.”
“I’ll only be gone a week or two, that’s none so bad now, is it?”
“I’m scared, Donchad. It shouldn’t be as bad as this, I shouldn’t be this ill.”
“You’ll be fine, nothing’ll go wrong.” he soothed. Fury sparked in Nuala’s eyes, “That’s what you said to get us into this mess”
“Er…” Donchad rubbed the back of his head; making is already untidy hair look like a windswept hedgehog, “Well…when destiny calls we mere mortals can’t quibble, and if we’re destined a child now there’s not much I can be doing.”
“That is a terrible excuse You only just made that up to hide that this is all your fault” Nuala anger soon died, and she wilted back into foreboding gloom, “If you leave then I’ll be stuck here on my own, worrying and feeling worse by the day.”
“I’ve got to go, Culad might need me.”
“I need you.”
“You’ll not even notice I’m gone, you’ll be too busy gossiping with those new maids of yours.”
“All they ever do is talk about difficult births and how many ways you can die before the baby is even a week old. They’ve got some kind of competition going, who can tell the worst story.”
“I’m told these problems run in the family, and your mother died safely of a fever so you’ve no need to worry.”
“A fever two days after I was born, and I’ll not be giving prizes for guessing how she got it” Donchad’s encouraging smile wavered slightly, “Well there you are then – you’re quite safe because…er, she beat you to it, and they’re saying it only happens once every two generations.”
“Tell that to my grandmother.” Nuala wobbled slightly, and Donchad caught her with practised ease as she fainted. He sighed with something akin to aggravation, “Oh, not again”
Shorter than I planned, it also took longer to write than I expected. I'm not happy with that Donchad/Nuala scene - I could think of a really good scene last night when I couldn't write it down, and now I can't remember it at all. It was really explosive, and it showed off their characters very well. Oh well, I managed to gett he same information into this not bad version here, but I can't help but feel the original forgotten version was better. I bet I'll remember what I wanted to write at 2AM tomorrow morning http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-confused.gif
The omens HE will be born in Ulster....Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Omens...I half remember the reference. That demon child from some horror movie?Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Lol, the line is so corny you could make sandwiches out of it, originally she said something far better but that was at 11:30 PM last night and I didn't write it down.
That's another froggy response within half an hour, for anyone wondering about my psychic powers I subscribed to this topic with email notification. Every time someone posts here I get a message, since I usually leave the PC on for hours at a time even if I'm busy elsewhere I get to know about replies pretty quickly.
Damien - The OmenQuote:
Originally Posted by [b
The kid with a 666 on his neck
I don't mind the line, actually, it may seem slightly corny but it's nothing major.
That catfight scene was great http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/bigthumb.gif .
As for Nuala: if Dunsleive hasn't got an heir, Donchad will inherit his property (unless he's got more brothers you haven't told us off). So if Dunsleive dies, Nuala can throw Fionnghualla out. Nuala is already trying to outrank Fionnghualla and it gives Fionnghualla a motive for poisoning Nuala.
The hot summer sun beat down on the empty field just outside the village of Ferta Nime. Culad loosened the collar of his fine wool tunic, wishing his finest clothes weren’t so hot. Margaret tutted, and set about neatening him up again, “You’re supposed to look your best, you can’t go and show off your ducal powers and create an awe inspiring impression if you look like you’ve been upended in a hedge.”
“Remind me to buy some cooler fancy clothes, if I’m to be showing off all summer I’m going to die of heat dressed in this.” Margaret stood back and inspected her husband. Over a fine white linen shirt he wore a red woollen tunic with large bands of embroidery about the cuffs, neck and hem. The tunic was a different cut to Culad’s usual choice, reaching down to the middle of his shins, with wide sleeves that came to just below the elbows in the latest fashion. Tight fitting brown hose, also the latest thing, a richly decorated belt with matching dagger, and a pair of new shoes finished the effect. He looked every inch the duke, albeit a fed up duke in clothing he didn’t feel comfortable in. Apparently satisfied with the overall effect Margaret turned away to pick up the dark red cloak draped over a seat nearby. Culad’s hand went to his collar again, without even looking Margaret snapped, “Don’t even think about it”
Culad’s hand dropped back to his side, “I’m boiling, and you’re heartless.”
“Would you rather go in full armour? I can arrange that, if you prefer. Then you’ll have reason for complaint.” replied Margaret sweetly, as she flung the cloak about Culad’s shoulders and fastened the brooch, “Before you go, did you ever change the inheritance laws away from elective?”
“No, I’d not got round to it. Salic Consanguinity would suit, I’m thinking.”
“Semi Salic Consanguinity, we’re not ignoring half our family.”
“Why’re you mentioning this now?” Culad’s eyes went wide, “You don’t mean…?”
“Yes, congratulations Daddy. You’d better not do anything stupid with our children’s inheritance. Now off you go, go brow beat Sigtryg into behaving.” Margaret turned her stunned husband around and gave him a push towards the centre of the field where two chairs were set opposite each other. Culad started walking automatically, and on the other side of the field a figure in dark blue left his group of followers, heading towards the meeting place.
The two men met in the centre of the field, both tensed with suspicion, like a pair of unfamiliar dogs deciding whether to fight or not. The pose was held for a heartbeat, then Sigtryg flashed an easy grin, “So, at last the two dukes of Ulster meet. Nice to see you again, Culad.”
“There’s only one duke of Ulster; I have that title.”
“And I’ve a claim to it, there’s no reason to get snotty just because you’re holding the fancy seal.” Sigtryg sat in the closest chair, lounging back and hooking his thumbs through his belt. Culad bristled at his count’s lack of respect. Sigtryg waved at the other chair, “Either sit down and be comfortable, or stand and keep oozing muscular, trained warrior style threat – I’ve no care which, for I’m not here to fight and I’m plenty happy sat here.” As his liege stiffly sat down Sigtryg reminisced, “Now that was always your trouble, standing on ceremony needlessly. Always showing off, you were, aye, posing like just now when it’s neither use nor ornament to a man. No, I tell a lie, for it’s very handy to be attracting the ladies all the time, but none so good when talking to your vassals. Speaking of ladies, how’s your wife?”
“Fine.” ground out Culad.
Sigtryg sorrowfully shook his head, “Fine, and that’s the best you can be doing? I’d have thought more, I’m hearing plenty about the pair of you, and from that rocky start you’re doing grand.”
“I didn’t come here to talk of Margaret, and nor did you.”
“No? No, I’m supposing not. I was merely thinking of old times, and anyhow you’ve not asked me about my wife and unborn child yet.”
Culad’s mouth twisted, as though he had eaten something sour, “How are they?”
“Thank you kindly for your asking, my child is dead and Brigida’s only just recovering.” Sigtryg smiled bitterly at the surprise on Culad’s face, “Oh aye, that sickness was no lie to gain time. I’d thought your wife would have told you that.”
“She confirmed that Brigida was ill, but she didn’t go into detail.” Culad swallowed hard, and said awkwardly, “I’m sorry.”
“I’ll take that at face value then, for you’d have meant that once. Now perhaps you’re seeing why I’m not wanting to stand on ceremony and get to the point too fast – you’re going to ask a request I’ll have to refuse, and that’ll be it. I’m none so keen on leaving Brigida now, so this’d best be worthwhile, and a minute of talk isn’t worth the trip.” When Culad said nothing Sigtryg chuckled, “You’re my enemy and you’re the only one not advising me to kill her if she miscarries again, you know all others are horrified when I say I’ll not be doing that. They go on about heirs of my blood, and when I point out bastards are my blood too they go all strange They all talk to me of love – ha The damn fools keep telling me my ‘love’ for Brigida mustn’t influence my decisions, I barely even like the woman – can you believe the bare faced cheek of those fools? What they’re not understanding is that she’s family now, and family’s sacred. All others are nothing, but family, blood is all.”
“There was a time when you said I was practically family.”
“Ah, well the key there’s the word practically. If you’d not got overly ambitious there’d have been no problem, but when you got your head rammed up your own backside you forced my hand to rebellion. A shame, really, we’d have made Dublin squeal between us.”
“I asked for nothing more than my due, and what was already mine and only loaned to you.”
“You tried to take my lands and cut me out of the inheritance All for greed too, wanting to rule all yourself with no vassals.”
“I offered you fair compensation, and new place in my court right at my side. You’d have been displaced from the inheritance the moment I had a son – we both knew that.”
“There’d been some honour in that, some dignity, but no, you had to strip me of my title like I’d been caught thieving.”
“It’s no more than I’d have done when my son was born.”
“Sweet Jesus If you were still a boy I’d clonk you for that lie – we’d have gone and conquered some more land for your son to hold, that’s what we’d have done Hell, we’d even chosen out Mide as our target, remember? All those years I tutored you to think, to use cunning rather than a sword, you’ve no gratitude and the lesson’s half lost now.”
“I offered to make you chancellor, you broke with me, not the other way around.”
“Chancellor, bah Am I a fat old man who likes playing with cakes? That title leaves a rancid taste in my mouth. You failed your test, boy - if you’d paid any heed to my words you’d have either had me killed or left me to my lands and gone after the duchy of Dublin, rather than posturing at me.” The two men glared at each other, Culad looked away first, something that gave Sigtryg no pleasure. He twisted in his seat slightly, looking past Culad to the group of his followers off in the distance. Squinting slightly Sigtryg spotted Margaret, a hint of a smile played on his lips, “Well at least you got one thing right, Culad, you beat me to her. I was cursing you for it, but I was proud too. A fine match for you, and a good move for your cause.” Culad mumbled something non-committal, and Sigtryg settled back in his seat again, “So when’s your child due?”
“What?” Culad couldn’t hide his surprise, much to Sigtryg’s amusement. The count elaborated, “It’s obvious to one who knows you well – your face lights up every time I mention your heir.”
Culad did some quick calculations, “March, sometime around March. I only just found out.” he couldn’t smoother the proud smile that rushed to his face.
Sigtryg rubbed his chin thoughtfully, “How if we sign peace until April of next year? You’ll be asking for my title and seals to be surrendered again today, and I’ll be refusing again, then it’s back to war. Family is everything, and you’ve got one to take care of now, and so have I…in a different way, perhaps. Now you’ll be saying that’s no reason for peace, so I’ll show you the obvious and let you think of that as my reasoning. Neither of us are in a position to fight again so soon, drained coffers, lost men, a need to reorganise back home – war now’d be an end to us both, the vultures would come swooping in to pick up a weakened Ulster.”
“I’ll think about it.”
“You’ll examine this from every angle, looking for advantages to us both, just as I taught you. Good.” There was a hint of pride in Sigtryg’s voice, “Now speaking of taught, how’s Donchad? I heard he got married, as recklessly as ever. It’s not suit him to things quietly for once, I gave up on trying to cure him of his inclination to leap, then look.”
“He’s fine, you can speak to him yourself if you want later.”
“I’d like that – it’s hard to get a good word in the midst of battle, he may have been an unofficial part time pupil at best, but I think I thought him more about cunning than I ever expected.”
Culad stood up, “I’ll be going back now, I’ll send a messenger over to you about Donchad, and your proposal.”
“Aye, good enough. If you’ll not be minding I do have one last request…” Culad said nothing, so Sigtryg continued, “I’d like to meet your wife, see who I nearly managed to marry, see who stole the heart of my old friends only son.”
“I’ll ask her.” replied Culad coolly.
That breeze that hit the field as Margaret said congratulations Daddy was a frog breathing a sigh of relief. Well, to be honest I found out on the 28th June in the game, not the end of July as written here, but the game tells you the moment conception takes place for some crazy reason. Now to begin praying for a son, and that nothing goes wrong...
Nice reasoning, Ludens. Donchad and Dunsleive are the only two brothers, the last two survivors of their particular line. To be honest :mumbles embarassedly: I hadn't thought of that. My reasoning was that Fionnghualla is after Nuala because of her little outburst, which was provoked by several things. Firstly the fact she really is suffering here with a pregnancy she doesn't want, and she's terrifed she is going to die. Secondly Nuala is somewhat ambitious, and wants to live in style, she is also really bad with money. Thirdly squeezing Donchad for gifts is a way to get even with him and take her mind off things http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...c-devilish.gif
Of course that is just now, the future...
I am very glad to hear that my guess was tolerable. Given my recent record at guessing I was thinking of taking on the title of 'Failed Clairvoyant' or some such thing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif .
But what was Culad planning to do on his meeting with Sigtryg? Because the only thing he does is passively responding to Sigtryg's remarks and then argue who was to blame for the break up. A good way to introduce the past, but it makes it seem like Culad wasn't prepared at all.
And what is semi salic consanguinity?
Sigtryg:Later he says:Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Culad got so badly out manoeuvred by Sigtryg that he ended up spending the day chatting politely, rather than asserting his lordly powers and demanding his vassal submit.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
It is rather lame as plot devices go, but would you rather read a 2 year siege of a hill fort? The game has some very screwed up timings, that entire war against Aed was actually one pitched battle lasting for a week (), then more than 8 months of besieging one hill fort. I embellish a heck of a lot, for one small there are no miscarriages in the game. In many ways this story has only minimal resemblance to the game I played. Names, big events like wars starting and ending, character traits that are mentioned specifically (Culad the Lusty, Fionnghualla the kinslayer etc) and that's about it. The rest is my own doing. Given more time to think and play around with ideas I would come up with something better, but I am trying to keep up a good pace, and right now I have my eyes on a future that gets very complicated for a frog to write...
Semi Salic Consanguinity is a kind of inheritance law, I meant to stick an explanation in the notes but I forgot http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/rolleyes.gif
Ahem, in game terms, taken from the manual: All titles go to the strongest child, or if dead to his eldest brother, and so on. If no children can provide an heir then the strongest grandchild inherits and so on. Note that this allows a woman to trace inheritance, though a female may never inherit, but only pass on it on to a male (her sons). Strength depends on military attribute, prestige, and ownership of provinces.
In real life terms:
Semi (whatever) means that if the male line is extinct then the females will inherit themselves, for example Culad has a son and a daughter, if the son dies the daughter will become duchess in her own right. This is not modelled in the game, to my immense disapointment.
Salic refers to bloodlines - family by birth.
Consanguinity refers to relationships between people via blood. If you marry your cousin you marry within consanguinity, or too close to your own blood to avoid accusations of inbreeding. Consanguineous marriages did take place; you just had to arrange special permission from the Pope.
So basically inheritance by family, including the female line when there are no surviving males. You can start with the eldest son if you like, but there is no set order so far as I know - you can pick whichever son you like best.
Froggy, you may be the author of this chapter, but when I read it I didn't see it as Culad being out-manouevred. All I saw was Sigtryg ranting to Culad about this and that, and then talking about not wanting to relinquish his titles.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Even so, big deal. Why don't you (Culad) just crush the damn guy? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif
~Wiz
I would crush him if I could, but I really need that victory to take place at the same time as it did in the game, you will understand why the timing is so critical later. Damn game, it took forever to beseige anything with my tiny Irish armies Immensely tedious, if I had twice as many men I would have defeated my rebels inside of a year, not the 2 1/2 it took.Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
Ok, so this scene does not work then. Curses, that means the follow up is not going to work either. Gah What to do, what to do...
Suggestions? You want a rewrite, or shall I just get on with things?
I could try a rewrite to make it clearer, maybe. Or I could just step over this whole mess and keep going, leaving the clean up to my later refinement of this story into something more detailed and readable.
I think I will now sever all links with the game, barring two events in the future that really stand out as incredible material for story telling. The siege and the other, both on the same day, they were so...strong with potential that I decided to write this whole thing just for those two events. I will now write this as a decent yarn, with the occasional name, birth etc stolen from the game. What was originally an inspiration has now become chains holding me back.
If you are going to rewrite it, you need to make Culad more active because now he is only responding to what Sigtryg said. He has plenty of time to take the initiative before Sigtryg said he wouldn't accept Culad's proposal. And if Culad was already unbalanced by Sigtryg not wanting to accept him as duke, then what did Culad expect?Quote:
Originally Posted by [b
BTW, it is rather unspymaster-like of Margaret to tell Culad that he will become a father, just before he has an important meeting. It seems like Margaret wants to unbalance him too.
So yes: I think it needs a rewrite.