XVI -XVII mod

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Hetman @ May 11 2004,06:20)]

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Cebei @ May 11 2004,04:37)]Are these Polish Tatars? The ones which were attacking panzers with cavalry during WW2?

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No I mentioned Polish Husaria.

The Tartars were fighting in one regiment of cavalry at that time, and were very good at it.

Second. Well Cebei Your sources seems to be rather unreliable - Polish Uhlans charging tanks is pure propaganda work Goebbels and Soviet actually.

The cavalry fought very good and caused serious casualities,

and NONE OF THEM HAVE EVER CHARGED ANY KIND OF TANK.

regards Cegorach/Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

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Hehe my source is a Polish visiting instructor named Korap-Karpowicz who was in our university two years ago. We were speaking of Turkic-Muslim people, tatars mainly, and he told me story of Polish tatars charging German panzers. Actually didnt make much sense initially and took it with a pinch of salt; I thus remembered that discussion when you mentioned the cavalry unit.

It was just a question, so thanks, you already answered it. I should have guessed it when the guy told me he was a baron. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/angry.gif

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]@ Trax, spanish musketeers and even the harquebusiers left the firearms and fought with swords in the middle of the pike formations,between the pikes, so the pikers were unprotected unless they dropped their weapons. That is, they left their firearms if they were so close they couldnt continue firing...

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Hmmm..
Maybe then give to them Trebizond archer or Byzantine infantry like stats, then they would be still effective against other infantry in hand to hand, but not almost invincible against cavalry, which should be able to easily overrun them.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/confused.gif

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Trax @ May 11 2004,12:12)]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]@ Trax, spanish musketeers and even the harquebusiers left the firearms and fought with swords in the middle of the pike formations,between the pikes, so the pikers were unprotected unless they dropped their weapons. That is, they left their firearms if they were so close they couldnt continue firing...

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Hmmm..
Maybe then give to them Trebizond archer or Byzantine infantry like stats, then they would be still effective against other infantry in hand to hand, but not almost invincible against cavalry, which should be able to easily overrun them.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/confused.gif

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okay, you right, cavs still sould be able to nail them...
It is just that the spanish didnt have any other shock infantry, so the musketeers and harquebusiers were as hand to hand troops as they were ranged troops, thats the reasno for the high stats.
So you are saying that the defence should be lower... Even for light cavs, they still should be tough, tho...

maybe defence 3 for the Harquebus, and 4 for the musketeer?

Playtesting will show some day http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif
Ther was´t much shock infantry around anyway, but didn´t the Spanish have some swordsmen with small shield in early 16th cantury, which were quite effective against pikes.

BTW the site about tercios mentioned that sometimes the skirmishing arquebusiers were protected from cavalry by detachment of halbardiers.

Some unit pictures:
Swedish and Imperial units
http://members.tripod.com/Strv102r/g...ii_adolf10.htm

King´s musketeer
http://www.authenticwardrobe.com/Mus...musketeer.html

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Trax @ May 11 2004,12:43)]Playtesting will show some day http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif
Ther was´t much shock infantry around anyway, but didn´t the Spanish have some swordsmen with small shield in early 16th cantury, which were quite effective against pikes.

BTW the site about tercios mentioned that sometimes the skirmishing arquebusiers were protected from cavalry by detachment of halbardiers.

Some unit pictures:
Swedish and Imperial units
http://members.tripod.com/Strv102r/g...ii_adolf10.htm

King´s musketeer
http://www.authenticwardrobe.com/Mus...musketeer.html

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True. The harquebusiers were no match for cav, specially if flanked, the inly thing they did well against cavalry was a close formation volley, but they still had swords.... anyway, im not saying they had bonuses defending against cavs, but that they were hard to take out for type of troop.

And YES, i volunteer for playtesting http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/bigthumb.gif whenever it comes.

That early XVI century inf was the remainder of the middle ages and was developed to counter the swiss pikemen, and the diverse pike-type units, so the spanish cavalry had clear way. As i said before *points up the thread vaguely* the Spanish didnt have superior cavalry.(except the royal guards, but you wouldnt usually see them on a battlefield).

In the XVII cent the spanish almost forgot the halberd as a massed weapon. only officers used them (sergeants mostly)


BTW, Hetman, good idea of making the pistols as 1 reload weapon, didnt think about that, but maybe for some units they should be 2 bullets (because some had 2 pistols).And they should be short range. Because the carabinieri would have a carabin also with one bullet but longer range.

Hello everyone,

As someone here requested, here are some pics of units:

Racowie Cavalry
early era, later evolved into Husaria, light lancers, fast, irresistible charge, good morale, good attack, very good defence, disciplined, elite, vulnerable to missiles, have shields, Poland, Volhynia, Moldavia, Carpathia, Kiev, Lithuania, Wallachia, Hungary; a pic:
http://www.jasinski.co.uk/wojna/develop/Pics/p26.jpg

Wybraniecka Infantry
http://www.jasinski.co.uk/wojna/develop/Pics/p08.jpg

Husaria
http://husaria1.webpark.pl/gfx/husarz3d.jpghttp://www.szkolawlombard.org/images/Husarz2.jpg

Pancerny Cavalry
http://www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/imag...na%20koniu.jpghttp://www.wawel.net/images/malar/ko..._pancerny.jpeg

Lisowczycy Mercenary Cavalry
http://www.wawel.net/images/malar/brandt/Jezdziec.jpeghttp://pl.wikipedia.org/upload/d/db/Lisowczyk_1.jpg

Regards,
EC

Thanks EC, now, at least we know (and I refer to all ignorats that, like me, dont know much about polish warfare) how they looked like, and what kind of stats they might have.

BTW, theres no way I can upload a pic from my PC, do I really need it on a webpage first?

O yah, I can imagine it right now, Hussars charging a tank

Die, damn Iron thing I have my wings http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg.../gc-jester.gif


BTW, the spanish also had heavy crossbows, REALLY heavy guys.
Armour piercing,
slow
normal morale (2)
charge 0
attack 3
defence 2
armour 5

they had a sword in addition to the xbow, but the xbow was just too unwieldy to defend effectively with the sword.

Another unit:

Encamisado: (literally guy in a shirt)
This wasnt an actual unit, but it had very specific purposes and elite soldiers hadpicked from the ordinary men.
Something like the Ninjas in STW.

unit size: 17
elite
very good morale
fast
can hide anywhere
charge 3
attack 5
defence 3
armour 1

armed with 2 pistols, a sword and a dagger.
moslty used in the Flemish territories, but could be recruited anywhere.




Ok, its too late, Im gonna go get some sleep.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Mouzafphaerre @ May 10 2004,21:47)]-
AFAIK, existing faiths can be changed, ie Pagans into Protestants, no? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/confused.gif
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I think.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/confused.gif

Pistols - 2 shots very short reload time to represent the second pistol, range long enough to avoid the heavy cavalry to begin skirmishing away http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg.../gc-jester.gif
Accuracy very bad armour penetration very low.

Actually, some cavalry units could have more ammo so they can fight in caracole like Imperials in 30 years war.
The Swedish cavalry charging with cold steel was a nasty surprise for them. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-smile.gif

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Trax @ May 11 2004,18:17)]Actually, some cavalry units could have more ammo so they can fight in caracole like Imperials in 30 years war.
The Swedish cavalry charging with cold steel was a nasty surprise for them. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/gc-smile.gif

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Yeah, I remember a description of the caracole tactic used in front of the Polish cavalry at Klushino 1610.
They simply charged when Swedish reiters were reloading.~:D

Hetman/Cegorach

Several answers here.

Mouzapheare

But let's please start it a bit earlier than 1492. I say 1481. Why? Simple: With little anachronisme, we can include Gem Sultan's revolt (rebels to the east) and give Ottomans a pain to deal with. Otherwise, they will be overpowered.

I think I it is possible to change the starting time to 1480, although it is quite an abstract date.

We can also include the Qurtuba Saltanat in Iberia (Cordoba), which will have been wiped off in 1492...

ONLY if You are able to create a reasonably realistic unit roster for the faction in 'high' and 'late' era.


SwordsMaster

I think the breakpoint should be the death of emperor Charles I of Spain (Charles V of HRE) because the HRE separated from Spain and they became independent of each other. I think its a major breakpoint.

What about 1570 ?


'Anyways, what I thought about is that musquets/harquebus in formation should cause fear to all cavalry except german cuirassers (those guys had bulletproof armour which harquebuses couldnt trespass) if they charge from the front. I dont know if that is doable tho.'

They do cause fear to enemy units with shooting, but not in h-t-h combat. If we implemented this we would create a very strange unit which would be avoided by the cavalry only because they'd be afraid of the harquebuses even without any pikemen nearby.


Nomad

Hi Hetman,
As your not planning to make any new Bif's (yet)Are you thinking of using Duke Johns new animations for this mod. His swiss armoured pike might suit most Tercio style pike units, and his dismounted Chiv Knights could be used for many MAA's and dismounted knight units. Not to mention all the other potential uses of his stuff).

There is a problem of additional factions which very often require additional ( custom 1, custom 2 and so on) BIF files, although I like the idea the new animations are great I think we can find spare slots to use - we don't need Duke John's archers for example.

SwordsMaster

I dont think emissaries should be more expensive.COz i use them mostly to remove titles from my gens, and should ALWAYS be able to do that.

How many do You need for that purpose.

I dont know if this can be done, but their special ability would be to take the weapons of the defeated soldiers and use them during the battle, adopting 3/4 of the other units stats.... but only for infantry units.

No. Unitstats can't be modified during a battle. Please think about different ways to recreate the unit in the mod.

@Nomad, the Vityez or Vityas were more early medieval werent they? correct me if im wrong...

Yes, the Russian military at that time is quite different than in other european countries. They were using 'hulajgorods' ( I don't know how to spell it correctly) 'siege towers' armed with light cannons supported with numerous infantry and cavalrymen.

I guess we need somebody from Russia to provide much necessary info.

Eastside Character

What about naming them Lipki or Lipkowie , to make some distinction with Crimean Tartats? I believe they should be available only in Volhynia, Lithuania and maybe Kiev as they were settled in only those regions in fact.

YOU are absolutely right. They should be different from Crimean 'cousins'. HINT I'm going to add 2-3 different cavalry unit types for the Crimean Tartars.

Why Ukrainian, when they can be trained also in Smolesnk? What about naming them simply Ruska Szlachta, or Registered Cossacks (if they represent nobility of Russian lands under Polish rule that'd be the most suitable name I believe; historically I mean).

Yes, a different name is necessary, but I can't find any suitable translation for Kresowa Szlachta - I mean veteran Noble Levy.
Maybe Frontier Szlachta ?
About Registered Cossacks - I believe the ordinary Zaporohian Cossacks
are enough.


EVERYONE

Please add descriptions for the units if You feel You have a suitable one.


PROJECTILE STATS

The mod requires several, different types of firearms and not only.

Here is my proposal

MTLG - cavalry bow - use this for compound bow, which was in use in many armies of the Eastern Europe;

LONG - ordinary longbow - for English longbowmen from late XVth century
and for Scottish mercenary archers in the XVIth;

SBOW - ordinary bow - I think we don't really need this kind of weapon, so maybe we can use the entry for a gunpowder weapon - still to decide which one - maybe Jannissary Arquebus, it was better because of better quality ( e.g. more resilent metal alloys) - better range than ordinary muskets, although slightly longer reload time.

NINJ - ninja star - I'm going to use this for pistols;

HGUN - handgun - I don't think we really need old-fashioned firearms, so why not use this for the matchlock musket;

ARQB - present arquebus entry. I think we can leave this as it is;

CROSSBOW - I think we don't need this weapon, arbalest should be enough
The entry could be used for wheellock musket or other firearm

ARBALEST - let's leave this the way it is.


Regards Cegorach/Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/bigthumb.gif

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (Cebei @ May 11 2004,11:30)]I should have guessed it when the guy told me he was a baron. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/angry.gif

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When it comes to this, he probably was right, but only because... in Poland most of the society can claim that they are nobles

I'll explain tomorrow.

Regards Cegorach/hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/cheers.gif

SwordsMaster

I think everywhere spanish troops are employed other than catholic countries, they should lower happiness.
Again if that is doable.

Unfortunatelly not, but it is possible to give for some units the ability to affect religious beliefs of local population.


And i thought that if the hussars cause fear to horses they shouldnt cause fear to pikemen....maybe to infantry other than pikes. Just a suggestion.

The problem is that fear works in quite different way in the game than in the real life. I'm going to make all pikemen units to fear of Husaria only because there is no other way to give them an adventage when fighting pikemen. In reality they were the only cavalry which was able to crush pikemen in a head on charge. Their 5,5 meter long hollow lances were designed to allow this.
So in game they'll have bonus fighting enemy cavalry ( fear in reality)
and cause fear to pikemen ( bonus charging them in reality).

Encamisado
can hide anywhere
armed with 2 pistols, a sword and a dagger.

You'll have to choose 'hide or pistol' probably, because they would reveal themselves as soon as they shoot. I think we can give them bonus vs. armoured troops to represent their pistols used in a melee rather before.
Great unit idea, though.

Cebei

my source is a Polish visiting instructor named Korap-Karpowicz

The saddest thing about this fairy tale is that quite many Poles believed in this propaganda bull****, even one of the greatest Polish directors Andrzej Wajda had to ( was persuaded) recreate this in Lotna.

THE REAL SOURCE of this legend is an event which happened on the 2nd September 1939. The Polish cavalry brigade ( called Pomorze or Pomerania) was ordered to stop German 2nd Infantry Division (Mechanized - most were not). One of cavalry regiment charged a battalion of infantry at Krojanty - as far as I remember. They crushed the unit and the terriffied Germans fled, but while the horsemen were regrouping they were assaulted by german armoured vehicles. The Poles retreated suffering severe losses. On the bright side after the charge THE WHOLE German division refused to move for one day or even two.
During the war Polish cavalry units were elite, which could be compared to paratroopers and fought wery efficiently, many times stopping much larger enemy ( German or Soviet) forces.
The fairy tale was created to humiliate the Poles during the war and to
offend pre-wartime Poland during the Communist regime.


It was just a question, so thanks, you already answered it. I should have guessed it when the guy told me he was a baron.


Why the Poles are all nobles ? Quite simple in late Medieval and early XVIth century Polish Szlachta ( Nobles) refused to use any types of ranks ( e.g. no barons, counts and so on), because of that the number of nobles was the largest in the world, or probably only in Japan the numbers could be the same. Very often the period between XVIth and XVIIIth century is called 'the republic of nobles' - about 10 % of the population were nobles - it is 10 times more than in England, 5 times than in France and 2 times than in Spain.
In later centuries the population was growing and many more 'connections' were possible - so presently it is quite possible that most of the Poles are nobles.
So there is nothing special in being a noble in Poland and nothing to be too proud about this. Everyone is greeted using the word 'Pan' ( Lord) or 'Pani' ( Madam), so considering the language everyone is a Nobleman - baron or prince if You like. This man was an idiot if he really was so proud of being baron. So You can call me prince if You like.


Eastside Character

Racowie Cavalry

They were often called Ussaria in Poland. And they were used in Hungarian armies as well. Firsr Racowie/Ussaria/Serbian hussars were Serbs of course.

very good defence

I don't really think so. They were unarmoured most of times and were light cavalry.

vulnerable to missiles, have shields

As far as I know only units without shields can be vulnerable to missiles.

Lisowczycy Mercenary Cavalry

Very good paintings. I like especially the one on the left - very mean.

The second one is by Rembrandt and I think it is very good for Polish light cavalry in 'late' era.

Trax

Actually, some cavalry units could have more ammo so they can fight in caracole like Imperials in 30 years war.

Yes, it is a very good idea, but it is possible that they would shoot too often.


GENERALLY

I wrote first description for the mod.

Lisowczyk Mercenary Cavalry

{Powerty stricken nobles, deserters, even convicted criminals fill the ranks of this light cavalry. Although the scums of Polish society under the command of colonel iron-hard Lisowski they fight as a very effective fast cavalry. Disciplined and brave during the battle they still revel in looting and worse when the battle is over.}

Now You'll understand why I love them.

What do You think about preparing all the Info_Pics ( the ones in the production panel) using historical paintings, I tried this several times and the result is simply stunning.


Regards Cegorach/Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/cool.gif

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Encamisado
can hide anywhere
armed with 2 pistols, a sword and a dagger.

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I think if you turn off the fire at will, they wont reveal themselves. You are right, once they shoot they are revealed, but the same happened with the ninjas.

The unit itself has white shirt (that is why they were called encamisados), and darker bottom part. They wear no helmet nor hats, and only a leather ciurasse under the shirt.

As historical background, they wore white shirts so they could see each other in the middle of the attacks. It was a unique spanish way of warfare used in coups de main usually at night, so they obvously didnt carry drums and flags, thats the reason for the white shirts.


In a more general manner, the spanish military flag was some background (depending on the army corps) and ALWAYS a red burgundian cross.

As the spanish soldiers didnt wear uniforms, they had that red cross sewed somewhere on the cloths they wore.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]What about 1570 ?

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seems good enough.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]CROSSBOW - I think we don't need this weapon, arbalest should be enough
The entry could be used for wheellock musket or other firearm

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Then change my description of xbowmen to arbalesters.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]SwordsMaster

I think everywhere spanish troops are employed other than catholic countries, they should lower happiness.
Again if that is doable.

Unfortunatelly not, but it is possible to give for some units the ability to affect religious beliefs of local population.


And i thought that if the hussars cause fear to horses they shouldnt cause fear to pikemen....maybe to infantry other than pikes. Just a suggestion.

The problem is that fear works in quite different way in the game than in the real life. I'm going to make all pikemen units to fear of Husaria only because there is no other way to give them an adventage when fighting pikemen. In reality they were the only cavalry which was able to crush pikemen in a head on charge. Their 5,5 meter long hollow lances were designed to allow this.
So in game they'll have bonus fighting enemy cavalry ( fear in reality)
and cause fear to pikemen ( bonus charging them in reality).

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Ok, they could increase catholic zeal in catholic provs, and make increasingly catholic non-catholic provs.

Fair enough for the Hussars. But to counter a lil bit that combat against pikes, give pikemen somewhat higher morale. Just to keep things balanced. Even in Hussars could crush pikes head on, it was not a very clever idea, i guess, and they would still take severe losses.

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]I dont think emissaries should be more expensive.COz i use them mostly to remove titles from my gens, and should ALWAYS be able to do that.

How many do You need for that purpose.

I dont know if this can be done, but their special ability would be to take the weapons of the defeated soldiers and use them during the battle, adopting 3/4 of the other units stats.... but only for infantry units.

No. Unitstats can't be modified during a battle. Please think about different ways to recreate the unit in the mod.

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http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/idea.gif

1-If you are going to make emissaries more expensive, then allow everyone to start with 2 or 3 of them from the beginning.

2-Then they should be a skirmishing unit, armed with a pistol, and a dagger.

Or alternatively, maybe so you could choose at the beginning of the battle what kind of unit did you want them to be of the ones you have and excluding cavs, and they would get 3/4 of that units stats as described above.

That looks too complicated tho... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg.../gc-juggle.gif

Why not concentrate first on one era and when its ready the others could follow?

I think the second era should begin with most important protestant countries already in place (the conversion of Henry VIII seems to be logical)
In that case people who will play full campaign will find themselves in entirely catholic Europe till the end though.

1st era 1492-1536 ?
2nd era 1536-1648 Wars of Religion
3rd era 1648-1700 The Sun Kings Ambition (Louis XIV against more or less everybody else)

I really hope that this mod gets done I have been itching for a pike & musket mod for ages http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/gc-yes.gif

Here is one unit description I can think of (my favourite unit of the 30-year war)

Faction: Swedes, trained in Finland. (only available in the 30-year war period)

Hakkapeliitta Cavalry:
After the wars between Poland and Sweden-Finland (1617-18 and 1621-29), Gustav Adolf II reorganized and developed the cavalry of the kingdom. Recruited from among the farmers and horse-owning peasants, these superb horsemen get their name from their fierce battle cry Hakkaa päälle. The Hakkapeliitta Cavalry form an ill-disciplined, but fearsome unit. Their main weapon is their speed and their fierce, irresistible charge, where cold steel and horse alike serve as a weapon. Their light armor gives them some protection in meleé. The king was so impressed with his Finnish cavalry, that he would always have them on the right flank, where he himself was positioned.

Some stats would be irresistible charge, good against other cavalry, cause fear, and may be a bonus when attacking cavalry...

http://www.elvijapaulilappalaisensuk...nen/kuva31.jpg

A very dramatic illustration of the charge of the Hackapels.

I also found a good picture of Sweden-Finlands infantry (time period: 1600 and onwards)
http://www.elvijapaulilappalaisensuk...inen/kuva1.jpg

Swedish artillery (I that since Swedish artillery was slightly superior, at least during the 17th century, it should be also represented in the game).
http://www.elvijapaulilappalaisensuk...nen/kuva23.jpg
During the reign of Gustav Adolf II, Swedish artillery was the most effiecient artillery on the battle field. Well drilled artillery crews and iron discipline enabled these crews to outgun their opponents
may be slightly faster loading time could represent this? I remember reading that they did load/shoot faster than their counterparts.

I've been wondering, how are you going to implement the swedish infantry companies, which comprised both musketeers and pikemen? The basic unit of the sweish infantry comprised of 72 musketeers and 54 pikemen. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/confused.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]What do You think about preparing all the Info_Pics ( the ones in the production panel) using historical paintings, I tried this several times and the result is simply stunning.

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Certainly using paintings for info pics is not a bad idea, obviously provided that there are paintings of all the units which will be present in this mod.

Some time ago, when I made myself Panceni units as late campaign units for Medieval(one with bow and one with pistols), I also used paintings for their info pics, only that I altered them a bit, to suit medieval graphical layout. Here, you can see those info pics I made then. I actually enjoy doing graphic work of that kind, so if you ever needed sth like this to be done, you can let me know, Hetman.

Regards,
EC

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]I've been wondering, how are you going to implement the swedish infantry companies, which comprised both musketeers and pikemen? The basic unit of the sweish infantry comprised of 72 musketeers and 54 pikemen.

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I guess you will train units of 72 musketeers and a different unit of 54 pikemen for Sweden and then combine them as you see fit.Thats just a guess tho.

Just thought of another detail:

1st- what map are you gonna use? We will have to add more provs for sure, but to do that we will have to remove existing ones, am I right?

2nd- Spanish armies were called Tercios. But a Tercio was composed of more than 3000 men, which cant be done.
So my suggestion is to call Tercio an army when that army grows to 800 men. So for instance, the Tercio of Navarre would be a unit of more than 800 men if the last unit added to the stack to reach the 800 was from Navarre.

wow, EC, beautyful pics.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (SwordsMaster @ May 12 2004,06:35)]2nd- Spanish armies were called Tercios. But a Tercio was composed of more than 3000 men, which cant be done.
So my suggestion is to call Tercio an army when that army grows to 800 men. So for instance, the Tercio of Navarre would be a unit of more than 800 men if the last unit added to the stack to reach the 800 was from Navarre.

wow, EC, beautyful pics.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

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Weren't the infantry squares of the imperials also called tercios?

http://www.iupui.edu/~lmena1/velazquez/breda.jpg


Image of the surrender of Nassau in Breda (Netherlands) to the spanish general Spinola (the dutch are in the left hand side, and the spanish on the right hand side of the central image.

It isnt too descriptive, but it might be helpful. The picture is done in the XVII cent by the spanish royal painter Velazquez.

hope you like it

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (wilpuri @ May 12 2004,06:46)]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (SwordsMaster @ May 12 2004,06:35)]2nd- Spanish armies were called Tercios. But a Tercio was composed of more than 3000 men, which cant be done.
So my suggestion is to call Tercio an army when that army grows to 800 men. So for instance, the Tercio of Navarre would be a unit of more than 800 men if the last unit added to the stack to reach the 800 was from Navarre.

wow, EC, beautyful pics.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

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Weren't the infantry squares of the imperials also called tercios?

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Yes, but a Tercio originally was a spanish name for a specific type of army. Charles V emperor of the HRE used spanish amries to pacify the HRE, so I guess they adopted the name. But it still was a spanish type of army.

I think you should extend the campaign to go to 1715 (death of Louis XIV, and the signing of the treaties which ended the War of Spanish Succession), just to make it more accurate.

We wanted to stop before the war even started, because the bayonette was introduced and America cant be represented...


HEY, my post 200. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/cheers.gif

The Franch introduced the bayonet around 1680, I think it gave them great advantage, so in the mod we should have at least some grenadier (elite) units with the best and most modern equipment (flintlock muskets and bayonets).

Hetman said he didnt want any NTW type units, so I guesss we'll have to stick to the pikes and muskets.


@mods Guys, dont you think this deserves a sticky? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/rolleyes.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...nquisitive.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

BTW guys, did you realize that we all started saying our mod at some point, referring to Hetmans idea. We are starting to feel really involved into this... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/cheers.gif

Some links about husaria, sorry polish language:

http://www.husaria.jest.pl/

http://www.kawaleria-polska.pl/modules....tid=138

hmm yeah...google translates polish?
anyways the pics are good http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (SwordsMaster @ May 12 2004,05:57)]Even in Hussars could crush pikes head on, it was not a very clever idea, i guess, and they would still take severe losses.

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Well... not, check Your e-mail I'm sending You something about them (and not only).

Cegorach/Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/cheers.gif

Hello

IDEAS for the CRIMEAN TARTARS

Nogay Tartars - very weak, but very fast cavalry. In reality many poorest Tartars were armed with 'maslak' ( a horse jaw on a stick), of course they were not the majority and avoided enemy soldiers if possible.

Nogay Tartars - strong charge ( 4), attack 1, defense 1, armour 1, morale 3 ( only), very fast - 12-13 moving, 26 running, 29 charging,
using graphs. of Alan Mercenary Cavalry - very low requirements and very cheap, unit size 60-100;
for Crimean Tartars, Ottomans - in Crimea,Khazar,Moldavia, Kiev.

Tartar Horsemen - much better, although low requirements.

Very strong charge ( 5), 3 attack, 2 defense, 2 armour, 4 morale, disciplined, very fast ( as above), armed with compound bows, textures of presently used Mongol Horse Archers, unit size 50-60.
for Crimean Tartars, Ottomans, Poland - in Crimea, Khazar, Moldavia maybe.

Tartar Scouts - unique unit.

Strong charge ( 4), 3 attack, 2 defense, 2 armour, 6 morale, disciplined, very fast, quite high requirements because MAY HIDE IN OPEN, or rather behind a small hill, in long grass and so on.
Unit size 20.
for Crimean Tartars, Ottomans, Poland - in Crimea only.
Present Steppe Cavalry.

Crimean Cavalry - very strong charge ( 6), 4 attack, 3 defense, 4 armour, 6 morale, disciplined, fast ( 11 move, 21 run, 23 charge), compound bows, present Steppe Heavy Cavalry, high requirements.
For Crimean Tartars, Ottomans, Poland - in Crimea only.
Unit size 40-50.
Bodyguard unit for the Crimean Tartars faction.


FACTIONS

- Catholic - Spain, Portugal, France, Venetia, Poland, Hapsburg HRE; Pope ( for excommunic. and granting cash, no Crusades or Jihads);

- Protestant - England, Denmark, Sweden, Brandenburg, Saxony, Scotland, Hungary; Transylvania ( instead of Hungary in 'high')

- Muslim - Ottoman Empire, Crimean Tartars ( probably only in 'early'), Persia ( expanded map required for the faction);

- Orthodox - Russia, Ukraine ( only in 'late');


20 factions - Pope not playable,

First. Do we need more factions, especially something in Italia, if yes what to choose ?

Second. Protestant religion if impossible or too hard to implement it soon why not make all protestant countries ORTHODOX ?
I know one of the LORDS is going to 'create' protestants, but I'm not sure if he is going to succeed.

Regards Cegorach/Hetman http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/cheers.gif