The Megapolis

Hi Komninos... I hope you'll fix the map problem...

In the meanwhile, as the official historical advisor for this mod, I've done some work on the map location naming... tough job, if you ask me, because your regions do not allways represent ancient regions. Seems like I'll have to attribute some of those regions to the largest city-state located within.

but we have some more or less (usually less...) historically accurate ones, which are:



SUGGESTIONS


Smolensk: Korinthia

Ryazan: Thessalia

Croatia: Phrygia

Constantinople: Karia

Hungary: Euboea

Anatolia: Paphlagonia

Georgia: Lykia

Armenia: Pisidia

Edessa: Tauros

Nicaea: Melitine

Trebizond: Ancyra

Poland: Thracia

Scotland: Dalmatia

Volhynia: Dacia

Freisland: Eso Moesia

Toulouse: Moesia


SUGGESTED CHANGES


Dassaratae: Illyrikon is much more accurate

Southern dodekanese: Maybe you should use the term “Doris”

Chania: Kydonia (the major city-state of the area)

Heraklion: Phaistos (the major city-state of the area)

Illium: Troas

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] (komninos @ July 04 2003,07:35)]Hi Wellington,

Thanks for the help and don't warry about the integration with VI. I have my tools for the campaign files that I use. The script.txt file data will be incerted and used so the final output will be VI compatible. And if all goes well I will sort out the CTD problem with the edge of the screen http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/pissed.gif it is driving me nuts.

PS. I remeamber reading that there is no bitmap size problem but I was forced to reduce the original size so that it will pass though LMM. Is there a max image size after all or it is a limitation of LMM?

---

Komninos,

I think the problem with the CTD is because the lukmaps generated have areas of white in them (check the Maptex.bmp in the MTWFiles folder).

The reason is that you've used the "SameRegion=" feature by adding a few yellow pixels (RGB 255,255,0) to indicate which regions should be considered the same. Just 2 small problems here -

1) you've use the same colour for all regions where I think your intention was to have several regions (islands) connected to different land masses. Looks to me like you have should have 4 same regions but you shoudl use a slightly differently RGB colour for each of these.

For example, use 255,55,0 for one pair of regions that are the same region, and 255,255,10 for the 2nd pair, 255,255,20 for the 3rd pair and 255,255,30 for the 4th pair. In this way LMM will know which 'islands' should be associated with which land regions.

2) you havn't coded the "SameRegion=" parameters in "Parameters.txt" - this is why these regions are still white (LMM does'nt know it should check for these).

Just add the parameters -

SameRegion=(255,255,0)
SameRegion=(255,255,10)
SameRegion=(255,255,20)
SameRegion=(255,255,30)

- and this should solve the problem.


MTW (and VI presumably) have a limitiation on map sizes. The maximum TGA size is 4096x3072 (Hires) and 2048x1536 (Lores). These are not just the maximum sizes but ALL MTW map TGAs must be this size. LMM allows any map size up to this maximum and if its smaller than the maximum LMM borders the users maps with either the standard MTW "wood" or a border tile that the user provides.

Welly.

Hi Welly,

I didn't get yuor mail yet ... waiting to test them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]I think the problem with the CTD is because the lukmaps generated have areas of white in them (check the Maptex.bmp in the MTWFiles folder).

---

Till now I am using the existing map of England and not my map The thing is very strange though you can move around the map with the cursor keys, the game works fine till the moment your pointer (mouse) reaches the edge of the screen ... then it freezes and CTD http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/confused.gif The thing is that there is nothing that simce ubnormal to the files that build the mod. Both the battles and the campaign work fine (functionality wize) but even if you avoid the boarders of the srceen at some point will freeze up. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...s/rolleyes.gif

But thanks for the info on the LMM. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

================================================

For thouse facing the "uildings are not parsed" has to do with the name of the buildings file so
copy VIKINGS_BUILD_PROD.TXT
and rename it to
Hellenic_BUILD_PROD.TXT
Then go to campmap\startpos open Hellenic.txt
and find the "Prodfiles" flag and make it as follows:

Prodfiles:: UNITPROD "Hellenic_unit_prod.txt" BUILDINGPROD "Hellenic_BUILD_PROD.TXT"

Hi all,

I can proudly announce that the test bed is officially OK
You can download it from the beta directory of the org or simply click:
Hellenic Total War Testbed
Hellenic Total War Testbed Textures

There is no strange CTD ... the "why" there was still eludes me But I have played a full campaign on the map of England I can say there is no problem with it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif
I just hope nothing pops up when I use the map of Greece http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif

Just for fun ... does anyone know how to activate the special faction shields on any unit? ... Welly? I would like to use this feature on for the hoplites so in every period every faction will have a different emblem on their shields.

One more thing ... have you ever playd in a winter terain in MTW it does no happen very offten but it is exelent

Hey guys,
I'm glad you are progressing nicely with the mod I said before that I am going to make some unit graphics, well that is delayed somewhat. At the moment I'm working very hard to get the LotR first release finished. When they're done the ancients units will be very quickly done, unless you insist on the different actions you have descriped; how the hoplites use their spear. If you don't I can reuse the weapon and shield coordinates from the LotR mod. If you do then you will have to do it by yourselve because they're very timeconsuming to do.
Do you want faction colours displayed onto the units? Or can I make a standard unit that uses shields to differentiate from other factions... much easier.

Cheers, Duke John

Hi Duke John,

The hoplites had a very distinctive way of fighting … but in the name of Time to Market we can do with what you have. One thing only the shield should always point directly forward can this be done easily … I am mot familiar with the way you make units and there is no one to do them any way so it is all up to you if you can accommodate the way the hoplites fight on a later date then it is fine with me.

One thing you said that you can display the faction colors on the shield … this is just the colors or the emblem of the faction also? What I would like to have is its faction to have a totally different pattern on their shields. Have you got any idea how this can be done?


Other news …
Thanks to Welly and Rosacrux the map is ready to be inserted in the game. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif On my last attempt the MTW froze up and did’t load http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/frown.gif . But I think I can make it work some how … the problem is that if I can’t we might have to port the mod to the original.
There is also a glitch in the map … one area has 16 neighbors … I think MTW accepts only 15 so this has to be amended.

I have almost all the Hellenic units of classical era ready Just cavalry and some special units have to be done.

I have changed the Vikings to Lydians I think the Picts will be changed either to Thrasian, Illirian or Phrigians.

I have not yet made any units of the non Hellenic units … I will take the Lydians first. The have an interesting army compositions since they are the only power that depends heavily on heavy horse formations. They fought bitterly with the Ionian cities especially with Smyrna that after a bitterly campaign they burned it to the ground. They city disappeared till the Alexandrian times that the city was rebuild near the sea where it still stands.

"One thing you said that you can display the faction colors on the shield… this is just the colors or the emblem of the faction also?"

We can insert different shield emblems into the BIFs. For example the peasant BIF has multiple shields. We can easily do that too, as long as you provide me the designs. I am not so sure about the faction shields as they seem hardcoded in some way.

Cheers, Duke John

Hi Duke John,

Things like that make me wont to revert back to v1.1 ... any way I short out the shields and send them when you will be ready. Only the shields are kind of flat show you will have to put them on a object and render them to get them more realistic.


Any way … how easy is it to make the unit bifs?
Exactly how many can you make?

"Any way … how easy is it to make the unit bifs?"
It took me about 2 months to get this far. It may look easy but it's pretty hard to learn all the tricks and correct usage of all the programs. One day I might make a guide, but writing down everthing is not something to look out for.

"Exactly how many can you make?"
At the moment I must find the time to figure out the weapon and shield positions for my human models. Once I'm done with that, I can possibly churn out a model every two days. I've made a great setup that only requires a new model as input and the rest is just pushing buttons.

Hi Duke John,

As I said when you are ready to make them contact me and I will send the shield images. I know it is hard work but once you get all the right positions then it comes out fast. The good news is that our hoplites fight all in tha same way ... Almos all since the Pike ones use both arms ...

=========================

Map news ... The map was fixed and now it can play at the V.1.1 exelently IN IV ... I can't get the thing to appeare in the selection srceen http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/pissed.gif but ... in time it will

Hmm. Initially I didn't think this mod would be my cup of tea, but seeing the effort and thought going into it, I've done a U-turn. I'll be checking the progress on this one regularly. Keep up the good work :]

EEUURAAH.

Hi Komninos, Looks like you are making great progress, I especially like the look of your map it is very different and adds a nice touch, I am glad to see you were able to incorporate your new campmap to VI, the SetmapTextures feature makes this alot simpler than V1.1.MTW I have done alot of experimenting with new maps and VI seems to handle them better as far as changing from one to another via the SetMapTextures command, opens up alot of possibilties for multiple map usage. Once I get some more free time after the Nap Mod work I am doing slows down I plan to try more things with the Maps, I look forward to trying your mod, keep up the good work. LOS

Excellent Komninos, you are my main man http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif


Would you post somewhere the final map (not the in game version, a jpg or tiff) to go through it once more and correct potential problems with the provinces names?

About the units: which units have you done for the classical age? so I can write the descriptions and all.

Keep on

Lord Of Storms,

The map is not inserted in the VI yet ... I don't know if anyone has done it. I just can't make the campaign appear in the selection menu even if only the area definitions change In the original it is incorporated instantly. This makes me think that the mod could be switched to the 1.1 version and work a lot better there.

Rosacrux

I will try to get a small zip with JPG versions of the map. It will be a bit harder to read the text but they will be significantly smaller. From the classical period I have done.
Classical Hoplite
Ekdromos hoplite
Peltast
Xistophoroi hippis
Javelin cavalry - I made this aveliable in all periods
Spartan hoplite
Skirites
Thessalian cavalry
One question ... do the following units belong to this period?
Theban hoplite, Theban light cavalry, Iphikratian hoplite.
BTW ... I will be on holiday from tomorow http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif and for the next week ... I will try to check out from time to time to answer any questions. Progres will begin again from the week after so have fun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif
============================
Rosacrux,
Here are the maps. In this zip you can see the regions map, the original map image, and the factions map. In the small txt file are the factions and there attributes/asingments to this mod.

What about the Theban Sacred Band, were they later?
I know Alexander of Macedon destroyed them and they were supposedly elite

Jolly good Komninos, I'll check those out and post results later in the week. As for the Sacred Band, I think that should be the Theban specific hoplite unit in the classical age.

Hi all,

Back again ... and this means you might get an updated download with the Classical units http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif .

=====================================================

Any one that could give me some pointers on how to insert the new map in VI would be greatly appreciated.

=====================================================

The Thebian Secret Lochos (regiment) was a special unit. In hoplite combat moral was all there was to it. Spartans were the best they knew it and everyone else did to so this gave them an advantage.
If you deserted your line decreased you in the eyes of your companions This is what glued the hoplites together. This is why they placed people of the same neighbourhood beside one another. You would not desert a friend The Thebians took that a step farther, the Secret Lochos was made out of lovers for the simple reason ... you might desert a friend but you would never desert a fallen lover This gives them an extra moral point and that is exactly what they will get. The Spartans will have a +1 attack point and an advantage in moral but not as high as these guys. Now the area they should appear ... is not clear to me ... I think they appeared after the or during the Peloponnesian war so they would be "Late" ... Rosacrux?

=====================================================

Rosacrux,

Can you do some descriptions on the units and eras even for the ones I hve not modelled ... I am not confident with the ones that are left so this will give me an idea on how to model them.

Thanks

=====================================================

flip,

Have you done any work on building icons?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]Any one that could give me some pointers on how to insert the new map in VI would be greatly appreciated.

---

I have not had the time to test this fully but it seems pretty straight forward using the SetMapTexturesSubDir command,(in your startpos) just follow the file structure for textures/campmap, insert your new map tex 1 & 2 and the lukupmaps etc and name it say "hellenic" keep it simple you need not specify the full path as per the instruction in this heading.
Set the sub-directory where this
// gametypes map files can be found.
//
// If undefined the 'default' directory
// off 'textures\campmap' will be used.
//
// The following files must be located
// in the subdirectory you specify here
// off 'textures\campmap'.
// eg. 'textures\campmap\vikings'
//
// 1) Frontends campaign map + lookup map,
// for displaying factions start positions.
//
// 2) Strategy map main texture + lookup map
// for regions. Note: Both these images must
// be the same size.
//
// 3) Strategy map radar and lookup map.
//
// 4) All tradable goods icons.
//
//=======================================

// Do not specify the full path,
// only requires the name of the subdirectory off textures\campmap.

SetMapTexturesSubdir:: "vikings"
So if you put items 1-4 in a new folder name it "hellenic" (just an example)with your new maps and lukups of course, it should work. emphasis on SHOULD good luck . LOS

Good News, Bad news ... working,

Hi all, http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wave.gif

The good news first I finaly made it The Hellenic map is in the game ... you can select the campaign with the new map http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/cool.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/smokin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/smokin.gif

The bad news now ... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/frown.gif
1. Though you can select it and the thing load up fine it CTD when it tries to dislpay the the camp map ... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/pissed.gif
2. For some strange reason the areas are totaly mixed up and nothing to do with how they are placed from the LMM

Unfortunatly both these are fatal but the main think is IT IS IN THE GAME Yeeesssssss http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

==================================================

LoS, ... thanks I will check what Mr.EGG has managed to do ... most probably I will contact him for this.

==================================================

Rosacrux,
The Cretan Archers and Lydian Archers are ready http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif

Okie dokie Komninos, I'll try to get them all ready in a couple of days... work has taken me down this week (last before vacations... very very tough).

OK, here are some more unit descriptions. If you really need some images of those, Komninos, I'll provide you with some links later... or I might do so anyway (depends on how work goes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif ).


Classical Hoplite (or Hoplite)
During the classical era the hoplite became the most feared warrior of the ancient world. The Greek hoplites of the era, with better armor and weapons, dominated the battlefield. All city states of the Greek world used hoplites, but only free citizen with full civic rights had the right to wield the hoplon and take part in the phalanx.

Heavily armored, strong charge, good attack, great defense, armed with spear and round shield. Very high morale.

Ekdromos hoplite
During the late 5th century BC, the abundance of professional skirmishers in the Helladic area, like the Thracian Peltasts, led to the development of a lighter variation of the hoplite, the ekdromos hoplite. They wore no armour at all (no breastplate, no greaves) and their defensive gear was only the hoplon/aspis shield. So they gained more mobility, while keeping the basic sturdiness of the hoplite phalanx. Usually the younger hoplites would serve as ekdromoi.

Lightly armoured, strong charge, good attack, good defence, armed with spear and round shield, high morale.

(you can present them with a cloack, not of red colour of course – those are for the Spartan).


Peltast
From Thrace originates this type of warrior that became the all-around fighter of the classical era. A peltast was as a lightly armoured, highly mobile, well trained professional skirmisher. The name derives from the “pelte”, the light shield they used as a defensive weapon.

Lightly armoured, fast, good attack, mediocre defence, armed with Javelins and sword. Medium morale.


Xistophoroi hippis
The cavalry was developed more during this period, when the Greeks had to face enemies that utilized cavalry as a vital party of their armies. The advantage of the armored xistophoroi hippis was their quite long spear (the “xyston”, hence their name) which was at least 3 meters long, giving them an advantage to many other types of troops. Nobody would expect them to charge into a tight hoplite phalanx, but in any other respect they were a very effective early heavy cavalry.

Medium armor, good attack, strong charge, mediocre defense, armed with spears, no shield.

Toxotes
The Greek archers of the era were better than those of most of their neighbours, although in the majority of the Greek states the bow was not a weapon of choice. But the Greek bow was a decent build and in the hands of trained men could be a lethal weapon. Nobody should expect the toxotes to hold their own against heavier infantry or cavalry.

Light armor, weak attack, weak defence, armed with bows, no shield.

Hippikon
Suited better for reconnaissance missions, for guarding the phalanx’s flanks and for hunting down the skirmishers, the hippikon was the light/medium cavalry of the era. The city states had few of those cavalrymen, but the northern Greek kingdoms produced greater numbers and of very good quality.

Light armor, good attack, weak defense, good charge, fast, armed with swords, no shield.

Phalangites
The Macedonian phalanx, invented by the King of Macedon Philip II, was the evolution of the hoplite phalanx only more effective. The basic unit of this phalanx was the phalangites, a lightly armoured footman, carrying a very long (6-7 meters) pike, called the Sarissa and carrying a small shield. Facing the wall of pikes that was the trademark of the Sarissa, few could hold their ground.

Light armour, very good attack, very good charge, great defense, armed with pikes, little shield.


Thireophoros
The revolutionary military concepts that emerged in the Helladic area during and after the pelloponesian war, included a body of well-armoured footmen, armed with javelins and a sword and carrying a type of oval shield, very much like the early Roman scutum, the “thyreos”. Those men, called thireophoroi, played a vital role in the 4th and 3rd BC centuries battlefield.

Heavily armored, strong charge, very good attack, good defense, armed with javelins, sword and oval shield. High morale

Hi all,

Do I have a surprise for you all http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

Check out the links and some time later I will tell you my problems with them.
something special
something special 2
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/joker.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/smokin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/smokin.gif

WouHOU

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

Damn you Komninos... you bloody did it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

Man, if you were a woman I would marry you http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif

More descriptions coming in later. Just keep looking.

The map is spectacular komninos,keep up the good work.you have any details i can look at in this mod(units,factions...etc)?

Hi Rosacrux,

I have not done it yet ... but I am at 90% I kill the Viking map so that the Hellenic one can play ... But it works for me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif . Now do you think we should have 2 to 3 Ionian factions ... or the Ionian cities to be under the larger cities (Athens, Corinth, ...) If this is the case which ones?

==========================================================
Hi faisal,
I think you would be playing the Lydians http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...icons/wink.gif . Interesting faction if it had played its cards well they could have bitten Persia. They have the heaviest cavalry of the era. They subdued the Medians and managed to subdue the Greek Ionian cities. They developed a similar fighting formation to the phalanx (most probably a copy of it).

Anyway I am not clear at what you are asking here ... if help is what you are offering you are most welcome.

I need:
1. info (that is descriptions) on the Lydian, Phrygian, Illyrian units.
2. Goods ... new goods, who to introduce them, names, images.
3. Flags and shields for the factions
4. Someone to deal with the buildings both production files, images and descriptions...

Pick one and let me know. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif

As I like to say this is not a mod ... it is a total conversion

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by [b

Quote[/b] ]. Goods ... new goods, who to introduce them, names, images.

---

Komninos, Check my post in the Dungeons Faq regarding adding new trade goods to VI, It outlines the whole process. LOS

LoS,

I have done it but ....
new goods are needed ... Statues, apples, oranges, holy items (from large temples or holy grounds), Omens (from Oracles like Delphi though this is not a good it generates huge income), ... etc all these need images and find where to put what ... there are 67 provinces in the map ... which ones had a what ... its weeks work trust me

BTW Have substituted some of the Viking good with MTWs good so there is olive ole, grain and wine. All provinces have goods and with the huge coast line of the map trade is fantastic. All provinces have at least two goods to trade so you get a lot of export/import stuff

========================================================

On other news ... v.0.9 is ready to be ziped ... it is going to be ~10 x 2MB files http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/frown.gif sorry about that but what to do. I will make a self extracting rar to get better compression. In this you will get a big bunch of new units (including Illirians and Lydians), the map http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ns/biggrin.gif , and a cupple more stuff ... more refined.

========================================================

With the help of LK in the Adding a new expansion to VI thread ... I managed to run the Hellenic Total war in its own folder I will fix some details in the map and get ready for v.0.9

sorry not active alot in the guild anymore http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...ons/tongue.gif,but may how big is the file?

Hi all,

The v.0.9 is ready http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cg...cons/smile.gif ... and it is only four files ~2MB so not that big. You can get it from the beta section of the orgs downloads or from these likns.
the mod - It installs all the files needed.
the map - well ... this one has the ... map ...
textures 1 - Unit textures and files 1
Textures 2 - Unit textures and files 2

You will fined a readme.txt ... please read it, I spent 1 houre to make the zip files today and 30min went to this file and for a good reason the insallation instructions are in there ... so follow them.

In the Textures\campmap\Hellenic there are two images MapTex2.JPG and MapTex.JPG. Convert these to TGAs. if you have a problem send me a PM.