Diplomacy - An Initial Guide

As I continue to explore and play new factions, once and while I try some experimenting with diplomacy. Most of the time I just figure everyone hates me and wants my lands. But sometimes when I make the effort I do get some positive results. When playing a nation surrounded by others, this is usually when I make an effort at diplomacy. I do know that the AI nations act differently depending on whom you as the human player is controlling. Just seems like the AI will ignore other nations neighboring it and focus only on you. I found it very peculiar how the Gauls, that border with five factions, have only one enemy (me the Germans) for over 55 years. WTF? "Hey Rome, watcha do'in? Sleeping?"

Onto my point. I have found on more occasions then not, if I get trade rights, then sell map info, and on a regular basis (once every 5-10 turns) give a particular faction a couple hundred Denarii as gift, they tend to leave me be. This only seems to work out if I get the diplomacy in action before they declare war on me. Sometimes I see them send a army group snooping around my borders, and I'll give them another gift and the army goes somewhere else. After some time has passed, if I choose to, an alliance request always gets answered.

I've been able to do this several times. So my question is, is this just all coincidental? Is it an illusion of other circumstances that are not readily visible to me at the time in the game? Or is there some sort of script that gauges interactions between factions. Can the AI actually realize that "hey this guy gives me money regularly, so I'll pick on someone else". Seems kinda optimistic when you consider other AI issues I know, but what do you think?

Just finished it. Brilliant guide, Tamur and Rother!

I have an idea of a good way of getting protectorates, although seeing as it says that protectorates are pointless, I don't think there is much point in posting it now...

A tactic I often use is bribing the Senate with cash gifts to get my standing higher. What I found was this:

At the start of the gift-giving, it actually increases your standing with the senate AND the people.
A bit further in, it increases your standing with the people more and stops helping your senate popularity.
Later, it simply makes no difference.
And if you continue to bribe for a while after that, your standings with the Senate goes down, it hasn't happened with the people yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silver Rusher

Just finished it. Brilliant guide, Tamur and Rother!

---

I think I should point out that the guide is overwhelmingly Tamur's work; I just did some donkey work and submitted some strategies.

Very nice guide Tamur ~:)

Thank you ~:cheers:

Great guide!!

And now a question: Is there any way to know all of our aggreements with other factions? I can't find anywhere the trade agreements I've made.

Do I just need to write them down or is there an easier method?
(too lazy to write them though...)

@Nestor- This doesn't do exactly what you asked, but it's a start. Send your diplomat to a particular faction and look on the left of the diplomacy scroll where you will see the deals you currently have. You probably already know this, but there is no way of finding previous agreements with all factions.

@Everybody else-

OK, I have come up with a diplomatic strategy you might like to add.

'The Hannible Maneuvre'- courtesy of the Silver Rusher

Summary Quote- "I told you so, didn't I?"

Description: In this strategy you will use diplomacy to basically crush most hard-to-beat factions that you find. The idea is to use a rear attack, but a rear attack made much better through diplomacy. You will need two large armies and two diplomats. When you start up a war with the enemy, send the first diplomat to find a faction on the opposite side of your enemy who you can ally with, and make sure you have a high enough NR and FR (explained in chapter 3) to get a military alliance with them. Build up a fleet now large enough to fend off most other fleets and which can hold one of your large armies, in fact the larger of the large armies. Send your first large army with your second diplomat to attack a nearby and fairly weak enemy settlement. Once it is captured, send your diplomat to the next enemy army/settlement/diplomat and ask for a ridiculously large amount of money, with Accept or We Will Attack attached. When they refuse, (which, if you offer the right amount of money will nearly always happen, see Tips) pile your second large army onto the big fleet that you have built and send it to your allies lands. (see tips for more info) The beauty of the 'Accept or We Will Attack' offer is that the enemy really do take it seriously, and prepare for a defence. The enemy should start to bring most of their army down to fight with you, and away from the other side. This is good, because it means that when you attack from the other side, you will meet little to no resistance at all. Bring your army on the other side down towards the nearest enemy's lands and attack. Done successfully, this will cause the enemy trouble and mean that their forces are less concentrated in your side, and they are generally weaker because of the loss of a settlement on the other side. Then it is up to you, you could continue to use this advantage to destroy the enemy, or you could just sell the lands they lost back to them at a very high price.

Tips:
If the faction on the other side who you want to ally with is already allied to your enemy or just doesn't accept the military alliance no matter what you offer them, you might just have to send your army through their lands anyway, despite their objection.
Remember always to stick by your promises, as otherwise it will have a serious effect on your NR. Once you have made the threat of an attack, you must not abandon it otherwise nobody will ever be threatened by you again.
The amount of money you should demand in the attacking threat should be just slightly higher than what they would negotiate. If they do start to negotiate, stop the negotiations as if to show that you are insulted. If the demands are too ridiculous however, the other faction will just ignore you completely.
When you want to send your army off remember, if you have no close sea connection (I mean without having to go from the mediterranean into the baltic, or that kind of thing) then you can go by land, as long as you make sure that either you have permission for you to go through the lands to your allies or the people who own the land pose a very little threat.

Offer/Demand:
For the alliance:
Alliance and Military Access/none (unless it is necessary, then maybe attach an offer of money)

For the threat:
Accept or We Will Attack/Regular Tribute
Accept or We Will Attack/Single Payment
Accept or We Will Attack/Give Region

When to use:
-When you have an enemy a little too powerful to attack directly
-When there is a faction on the other side of your enemy who can access by sea relatively easily
-Optional, but very worthy: When the capital/best city of the enemy is on the other side of their lands, which is why I love using this technique as the Greeks against the Macedonians with Thrace as the other faction involved.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nestor II

And now a question: Is there any way to know all of our aggreements with other factions? I can't find anywhere the trade agreements I've made.

---

Open up the diplomacy scroll (press D) and put your cursor over the badge of each faction to see the current state of your diplomatic relations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by therother

Open up the diplomacy scroll (press D) and put your cursor over the badge of each faction to see the current state of your diplomatic relations.

---

It's working!

Thanks therother ~:cheers:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Praylak

So my question is, is this just all coincidental? Is it an illusion of other circumstances that are not readily visible to me at the time in the game? Or is there some sort of script that gauges interactions between factions.

---

No, constant "good" diplomatic interaction with a faction will make things better. You'll get alliances more easily, and they'll last longer. Once you've got an alliance and continue to be kind to your ally, you'll get Military Access treaties with much more ease. Et cetera, etc.

Quote:

---

Seems kinda optimistic when you consider other AI issues I know...

---

I'm inclined not to deride the campaign-level AI. CA programmed a tight-fisted, mistrusting model, true. But it's an accurate way of viewing diplomatic relations at the time. However, it is frustrating if a player expects it all to be easy as walking up to them and saying, "Military Access, please".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silver Rusher

I have an idea of a good way of getting protectorates, although seeing as it says that protectorates are pointless, I don't think there is much point in posting it now...

---

Post away! They'll be patching the game at some point. Protectorates are definitely the ultimate diplomatic prize in the game, so anything that helps players get them is worth knowing. I'm going to leave the note in on the bug, but with that caveat the strategies will become very useful when its patched.

BTW SR, thanks for the stratgies you have posted! I'll get them added once I get back to my office on Monday.

Glad to see it's been helpful. It's getting looong... but then again no one can accuse it of being sketchy ~:)

The diplomacy in Total War is not of the best though, but who cares. The battlemode has become the most beautiful ever, and the campaign map itself is nice, with terrain affecting the wars in a much greater way than MTW...

Many people care about diplomacy.

Also remember that diplomats are useful defensively. Keeping one in each city and one with each army will dramatically increase the cost to bribe (maybe even impossible - I'm yet to lose a protected family member to bribery). Diplomats do gain experience in this mode as well - I have a 8 influence diplomat that has never moved. His governor is up to +500% cost to bribe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Warlock

...Diplomats do gain experience in this mode as well...

---

Wow, that is surprising. Will have to play around with this a bit. Do you know if that pair (diplomat/governor) are often the target of bribe attempts? You can see these if, during another faction's turn, you see their diplomat walk up to your city/army and wave their hands like they're making an offer, but you don't see the diplomacy scroll pop up.

Version 1.15 is up. Large number of corrections/additions in regards to Gifts, as well as the addition of the Hannibal Maneuver (thanks Silver Rusher!) and a few other small changes.

Yes, I'm fairly sure the AI keeps making bribe attempts against him (partly the massive bribe resistance and partly the three enemy diplomats that have hung around for ages without any obvious activity - I haven't been watching closely to see if the animation plays, but think it's there).

I do have a ludicrous treasury, not sure if that has helped (in the 'whatever they offer I can double it' sense).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Diplomacy Guide- NR list

You give unprompted cash gifts (only negative)

---

You know, I'm not entirely sure this is true. I believe that it is only when you give in too many gifts that this begins to happen. Earlier on in the gift-giving process I think it is actually positive. I'm not sure though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silver Rusher

Earlier on in the gift-giving process I think it is actually positive. I'm not sure though.

---

When is too much, too much, I don't know. But I do know it works for a while.

In my last campaign as Germania, if you played them you know Briton wants to own you. I was able to keep peace for 20 turns between Gaul and Briton. All I did was setup trade rights between both, and every turn alternating between the two gave them 100 denari. In any other campaign, where I would ignore diplomacy for the most part, Briton would always attack with a few turns, and Gaul would follow close behind.

While I gave Briton 100d on turn 1, then I gave Gaul 100d turn 2, Briton turn 3, etc. I believe this gave me the time I needed to scoop up those rebel provinces to the North and East and thats all I wanted was a temporary peace to focus on that. Fortified my position, built some troops and around the 20th turn Briton attacked. 22nd turn, Gaul Declared war on me and formed an alliance with Briton. You can buy peace for a time.

I could easily raise my diplomat's influence by a series of failed proposal. Even if starting with 0 influence, I can ask for ceasefire, trade rights, alliance, sell map, or whatever that is refused. Although I don't get the "trait increase" info. box, the diplomat's influence is quickly raised to 3+, even 4.

I am not sure whether I could call this a bug, but it makes sense that everybody learns through failure, too. ~:)

Thought that this might be of interest. It is some preliminary research on the effects of agents on bribing.

in terms of a window you have for timed things, like, say "accept or we will attack" or "will provide military assistance against", do you have any clue of what kind of window do you have for fulfilling your diplomatic obligation? (Obviously sooner is better, do you have any clue where people begin to not believe you?) And also, for "provide military assissance" does that mean you have to initate an attack, or can you provide assissance if the opposing faction attacks you. Does sieging a city (initating, capturing, or simply maintaining a siege) count?

Also, do you have any clue in how canceling treaties affects your diplomatic relations worldwide? (obviously again it hurts your relations with the faction, but I think there might possibly be some minor world-wide negatives).

oh, juts a note (since I can't edit my own thread) when I say capture, I mean through starvation, and not through military action (as that would fulfill your obligation). Also, does the computer appear to measure not only that you provided help, but how much?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delwack

in terms of a window you have for timed things, like, say "accept or we will attack" or "will provide military assistance against", do you have any clue of what kind of window do you have for fulfilling your diplomatic obligation?

---

Good question, this is definitely open for research. I know I've gone nine turns (4 1/2 years) and an attack still fulfilled "provide military assistance" agreement. However, I haven't taken it any farther than that to see what the absolute outer limit is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delwack

..for "provide military assissance" does that mean you have to initate an attack, or...

---

This means you need to participate in a conflict with the faction specified in the proposal. So, if you propose to the Dacians that you'll provide military assistance against the Scythians, then any battle with the Scythians will do - whether you initiate it or not, whether it's a single turn of seige or a pitched battle. You don't need to take a city to fulfill your military assistance obligation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delwack

Also, do you have any clue in how canceling treaties affects your diplomatic relations worldwide?

---

I don't have data on this, but it seems that there's a "believeability" factor that you maintain with each faction you deal with. And, the game acts like if you break a treaty with one faction, that faction's allies are less likely to make diplomatic deals with you. However, this is another area that needs to be investigated.

i was looking in some maps and noticed that every factions has an reliebility number and an dread number

Where did you find this, Emperor?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tamur

I know I've gone nine turns (4 1/2 years) and an attack still fulfilled "provide military assistance" agreement.

---

Hmmmm. I wonder whether an attack in the SAME TURN, but after the diplomacy, meets the requirement. I'm starting to think it doesn't -- that only an attack on subsequent turns will meet it.

One of my favorite diplomacy things has been siphoning money off the other Roman factions by offering to attack their enemies in return for cash. I'm religious about following up -- sometimes immediately. But now, suddenly, I've been met with the "we cannot trust that your troops will ever show up" message, and the only reason I can think of is that I attacked on the same turn I made the deal, but not later turns.

Anyone else run into this? Thoughts?

:balloon2: You know, dose anyone have any post patch 1.2 feedback on this?
Now the other factions give you map info with the trade rights and bribes are so expensive that they seem very rare.

I did have one of the Roman factions bribe one of my cities in this campaign but even a few peasants are too expensive for me these days. I think basic bribery costs must be 10x unit value. It certainly has made diplomats of less importance than before IMO. Some of the things they changed were nice but much of it I liked better before. I am very tempted to reinstall the old game at this point, bugs & all….
~:confused:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Droplede

Hmmmm. I wonder whether an attack in the SAME TURN, but after the diplomacy, meets the requirement. I'm starting to think it doesn't -- that only an attack on subsequent turns will meet it.

One of my favorite diplomacy things has been siphoning money off the other Roman factions by offering to attack their enemies in return for cash. I'm religious about following up -- sometimes immediately. But now, suddenly, I've been met with the "we cannot trust that your troops will ever show up" message, and the only reason I can think of is that I attacked on the same turn I made the deal, but not later turns.

Anyone else run into this? Thoughts?

---

I'm not sure if it counts to attack one's enemies on the same turn after offering to do this diplomatically, but I've done it several times. The way to check would be to have the diplomat make the deal :deal: , attack the mutual enemy, and then check back with that diplomat. On the diplomacy screen, you'll see "Assistance provided against rebels" (or whoever) until you have fulfilled your obligations. Then that message won't appear on the diplomacy screen.



.

hi Fisherking & all,

I'm largely AFK for the first half of this year, unfortunately!, due to a heavy load of thesis work, full-time job, and family. The soonest I can get to a full revision of (or even some basic research for) the diplomacy guide 1.2 will be late spring. I wish I could help more.

Tamur

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malrubius

I'm not sure if it counts to attack one's enemies on the same turn after offering to do this diplomatically, but I've done it several times. The way to check would be to have the diplomat make the deal :deal: , attack the mutual enemy, and then check back with that diplomat. On the diplomacy screen, you'll see "Assistance provided against rebels" (or whoever) until you have fulfilled your obligations. Then that message won't appear on the diplomacy screen.
.

---

Thanks, Mal. I hadn't realized that tag was conditional. That will help test it for sure.