Time commanders new series success or faliure?

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Originally Posted by RJV

From another forum (wargamesdirectory I think it is called) there is a guy on there who works on TC ( see post a few posts up from this one for more quotes from there and a link) - he said the contestants were all given MTW to practice on before going on the show (RTW hadn't been released at the time).

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That comes as no surprise at all. Both teams so far sounded like they were playing the game as opposed to fighting the battle, if you know what I mean.

My biggest gripe with the series so far is that it's just been boring. The battles have been too simple, we've gone from not enough help being given to far too much and there was no dramatic tension because in neither case did the team ever remotely look like losing.

There are other little niggles with the presentation, but if the battles were more challenging I'm sure they wouldn't bother me as much. The first series improved as it went on, with problems from the first few shows corrected later, and the comments made about upcoming defeats make me hopeful the same will happen again here.

I don think this series is better at all, the change of presenter is a negative form the start, the split screen camera views are annoying, i want to see the battle not see a tiny square of it and see the contestants shouting on another, theyve made it far to easy, stamford bridge was the most boring battle in all of time commaders history even worse than chalons in the first series were the most annoying general ever gave the most bizarre orders "defend the hill" i think we all remember that catastrophe lol.

Im glad the contestants arent incompetant idiots, but having kids on it is just plain annoying, if i hear the word beserker one more time!!!!! ~:)

I just dont see why they changed it so much, if its not broke dont fix it and all that, the 1st series needed tweaks not a major overhaul, also the whole show seems rushed somehow, the after battle analysis is now about 3 seconds long, i think time commanders has fallen victim to trying to please to many people at once in to many overly elaborate ways.

Im not looking forward to the next battle, *fingers crossed* please! dont be battle of hastings please!!!!!

Just in case you fancy showing them how it should be done, a post of the wargamesdirectory.com forum from Eliza of Lion Tv:


"Currently Lion Tv has not heard about a commission for a third series. However, if you are interested in applying (just incase it is commissioned) send an email with your name and contact details to TCPlayers@liontv.co.uk

As for what we look for. For the first series, the contestants did not have any experience with the game, or any wargames in general. That changed this series. There are some people in the eight programmes who do have quite a bit of knowledge of historical battles, and some who have a lot of gaming experience. There are also some that have neither. Basically, now there are now no restrictions (except an age one).

And I only have one tip: When filling out your application... don't write it in Klingon. It's not big, it's not funny, and I can't read it!

I hope you all enjoy this series and good luck if you decide to apply in the future."
Eliza

Klingon? Is she on drugs?

She means dont write utter BS.

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Originally Posted by Smaug-V

Klingon? Is she on drugs?

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I reckon she means the horrendous "l33T" phenomenon that has infested the web....but who am i too pretend i know her mind? ~:handball:

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On a further note,i prefer the new TC format....but think the contestants are let off really easy....whoever was controlling the enemy forces on the 2 episodes ive seen held back too the max!

Maybe this one?
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/klingon.htm

Ah well, I liked the first series but I guess the new generation wants more shouting, less lecturing, "24" style split screen actions scenes and a less intellectual presenter that talks in sound bites etc...

It seems they are aiming it more at younger "playstation" types. The less serious gamer.. But that has sacrificed the thing that made the show so watchable for people like us...

In the same way paintball gameshows fail, it now looks far more exciting to be there than to watch it from your TV screen. The old set was "brighter", the presenter "older" and the action slower, but it was deliberate and well explained. More coverage was given to the battle, maneuvers, tactics, troops etc, informative voice overs too....
What all these things did was give the viewer the ability to clearly understand what was happening on the battlefield. You could see the overall battle, "The Big Picture" quite easily...
The whole package just seemed better, not as lavish, or flashy as series 2 but it conveyed the events to the viewer better...

This clarity has been sacrificed to make it a bit more trendy and seemingly accessable for under 5's. The problem is, when you are doing a show about a wargame and a battlefield, the older viewers would rather the experience was focused on the actual war bit, the tactics etc... not snazzy camera work and shouting. And why is soooo dark on set? What did they do with the lights....? Frankly it looks confused... It looks like it was made for Channel 4 not BBC2, maybe. Anyway, we all have the game, and before the end of next week, it will work properly and we can all play it till our eyes bleed.

I doubt I'll bother with any more of this series...

As for the contestants, I can still picture the little bald guy from the army stammering.... "Take the hill" "Take the hill" from series 1. A Classic TV moment, but painful to watch. I can see his face, and hear his little voice.....over and over...

I reckon a lot of what people have said on here is personal preference, but i seriously dont understand how anyone can think Eddie Mair was a good presenter. He didnt say anything helpful and his jokes were woeful. But i agree they seem to have watered it down a bit. They seem to do that to everything these days. Dont get me started on "Aliens Versus Predator".. :furious3:

i missed time commanders last night, was it any good?

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Originally Posted by bones58

i missed time commanders last night, was it any good?

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I missed the first 15 minutes, but the rest was quite suprising - it was a battle between Alexander's Macedons and (run by the computer) an elephant-heavy Indian army under Porus. The team were army and initially seemed very good - especially at communicating with each other. However, they lost heavily: they lost their Companions by sending them into the rear of the Indian army without infantry support and then had their phalanxes wiped out by a massed elephant charge from their rear. It was rather embarassing really.

But having faced elephants in RTW, the team have some of my sympathy - the experts said they should have pinned the elephants with their phalanx (as happened historically). But I wonder how that would work in RTW? - elephants seem to just shred heavy infantry.

I was also wandering how they could have won this battle. I guess the best way would have been to try to keep the elefants in place with the phalanxes and pepper them with javelins. Hopefully they will run amok and go through the Indian infantry...

In the mean time you could use your archers to soften up the Indian infantry (or maybe use flames to irritate the elephants some more?) and the horse archers on the left flank to annoy the Indian cavalry. And then at the right time a nice companion-charge in the rear of Porus' army...

It's a shame that we don't get to see a real overview of the battle, but it looked to me that they rushed their cavalry and were too slow in getting their infantry to the battle. They didn't have access to the 'f' and 'r' shortcut keys for the phalanxes I guess.

Nice to see the team lose for a change though! ~D

As soon as they mentioned who the opposing army was going to be, I turned to my wife and said, "if it's true that the team got to practice with Medieval before the series, they're going to get themselves into trouble because they won't have any idea how dangerous elephants can be."

Halfway through the battle, after the elephants had predictably ripped through the team's skirmishers without even slowing down and begun chasing the team's horse archers behind the main phalanx battle-line, I turned to my wife and said, "They'll be absolutely fine, so long as those elephants keep obediently chasing the mounted archers to the edge of the battlefield, the way the team is assuming they will."

A little later, after the elephants had reversed course and charged into the rear of the Macedonian phalanxes with, as the sitcom writers would have it, Hilarious Concequences, I turned to my wife and said, "I told you so."

I take the point on how it's difficult to see how they could have dealt with the elephants, but the battle was lost when they threw their best units away in an overconfident charge against the main body of the Indian army while their phalanxes were still miles away (and then whined in the debrief about how the Companion Cavalry hadn't performed "as well as they'd been led to believe" - you were told they were great. You weren't told they were frigging superhuman). It's particularly unforgivable if they'd actually gotten to play Medieval, where cavalry is even more vulnerable when sent unsupported into a melee.

Still, this was the most enjoyable episode so far this series, for what little that's worth - there were actual tactics involved and everything, although the overfondness for closeups now makes it difficult to keep track of what those tactics actually are.

go and look clash of the generals on discovery i thought it was better

was the indian (sp?) skins good looking?

i thought tonghts episode of time commanders was very good but my main complaint was NO TACTICS!! my god i never seen so much luck and stupid commands go right in all my life

I saw the first one. It did seem to lack a bit coherence. The priest general just shouted and screamed and the romans ran straight up to that field where they slaughtered the phalanx (which was pretty much given). There was a couple of good flanker moves made by the AI (OR is it AI?). What there seems to be lacking on the human side is tactics.

What channel is this on? I've always wanted to watch a British game show from the western hemisphere with a satelite network that ceases working when even a small cloud passes over Florida.

Its BBC2 on UK tv.

I really dont think its AI, because I think even the bad AI would have won tonights game. It had to be a human controllers - with some guy stood behind him saying - ok let them take this unit - that unit etc etc.

Tonights game was terrible and they should have lost.

since it isn't available here in indonesia
can anyone direct me to the episode guide/summary/tell-all sites?

Ok....

Yesterdays Fiasco..What can one say. All testosterone and no brains as far as I could see. ALthough the battle was lost historically too....

They should have held back a cav reserve on either flank to look for support v ambush or in case of routs.

Anyone notice that the persians were all using the Parthian skins, and the Byzantines the legionary roman cav, couldnt see what the byz inf was.

The Skirmish was the worst bit imho. Terrible.
I think Nus was embarrased for them.

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Originally Posted by Rodafowa

I turned to my wife and said...

I turned to my wife and said...

I turned to my wife and said, "I told you so."

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Are the bruises healing well? Any idea when you'll be allowed to move out of the spare room? ~;)

Cheers,

Pell.R.

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Originally Posted by Kaldhore

I think Nus was embarrased for them.

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"Yeah, they're toast."
Turned into the experts phrase of the day with that team didn't it. :D
But then, I hate the Persians, I was happy to see the Byzantines school them.

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Originally Posted by Kaldhore

couldnt see what the byz inf was.

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I think it was a new skin. Wasn't anything remarkable though, I think the huscarles are still the only real good new skin seen on the show.

I think there was another new skin amongst the Parthian cavalry, something with a blue coat that looked vaguely Hunnish.

They really didn't have to do too much to win that battle. And they didn't even manage that. All they needed to do was stand there and shoot them with their various archers and horse archers. The ambush was a nasty (though enjoyable) surprise - remember the Gaullish ambush in TC1? - but their combat cavalry should have been on either flank anyway. There was no way they were going straight through that ditch.

Equally enjoyable was their inability to realise that their units who were marching back towards their own map edge were in fact running away. Makes me wonder whether these guys have really practised on RTW. They certainly fell foul a couple of times of having their elite HA try and skirmish away from cavalry and then being caught from behind when in fact they'd have probably won by just counter-charging.

I also eagerly await the day when the generals actually act like generals and let the captains handle the micromanagement. Right now you might as well have the generals down at the screens and lose the captains - it would be a lot quicker. The best generals I've seen were in the very first episode of TC1, where they stood behind the table and actually said relatively little because everything was going to plan.

I found the experts particularly unhelpful this time, wonderful ideas such as trying to disengage cavalry from cavalry.

BTW does anyone know if they can a choice as to how the troops are divided between the captains?

I think Dara is easily the most interesting battle thus far in the series, i mean it wasnt obvious despite some awful mistakes early on that the players would lose, infact at times it looked like theyd win, it was very tight.

What I was amazed to see was the Roman cavalry as a whole which isnt what the romans are famed for owning the practically invincable Cataphracts, seemed abit bizarre really.

Overall though I just DONT LIKE the way TC is now it was so much better in the first series with Eddie Mair (sp?) as presenter.

I hope they do a battle like Manzikert soon, im interested to see what a full Byzantine army looks like compared to the roman legions we are more used to seeing.

God Eddie Mair was the worst damn presenter in any show ever.
"I'm Eddie Mair. My presentation is so flat I'd give a carboard cutout a run for its money."
Thank God for Hammond, who can say a line without making me wish Nusbacher was in a dual presenter/expert role. Wait, think I'm on to something there....

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I found the experts particularly unhelpful this time, wonderful ideas such as trying to disengage cavalry from cavalry

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What would you suggest? Sticking around to get slaughtered? No, you belt it back to your own lines and if the enemy follow you they can suck down five units of infantry for their trouble as well.
Remember, this isn't the predictable and laughable RTW AI they're playing, there's a human on the other end and they quite obviously fight with a thought to how things would have actually been done as well as giving the team a semblance of a chance (four badly organised idiots? I could murder the whole damn lot of them of my own, as could practically anyone here). They wouldn't have pursued because the main objective of obliterating the attack on their left flank is complete, and following up would (in a wonderful world where the team didn't suck), simply be throwing away forces to the Persian meatgrinder.

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As for the contestants, I can still picture the little bald guy from the army stammering.... "Take the hill" "Take the hill" from series 1. A Classic TV moment, but painful to watch. I can see his face, and hear his little voice.....over and over...

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I really really disliked that man lol he had that utterly clueless expression on his face that just deserved a slap.

I just wish they'd give the audience at home a better overview - why should we be restricted to the views the contestants get? A proper overhead radar view occasionally (or even an inset) would give a much better idea of how the whole battle was going - or even a zooomed out general's eye view from the back of the battlefield.

Take Sunday - all those cries of 'they can still win it!' - it would have been nice to have seen <how> they might have won it, then you could laugh even more when they spectacularly failed to do so...

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Originally Posted by Kaldhore

Ok....

Yesterdays Fiasco..What can one say. All testosterone and no brains as far as I could see. ALthough the battle was lost historically too....

They should have held back a cav reserve on either flank to look for support v ambush or in case of routs.

Anyone notice that the persians were all using the Parthian skins, and the Byzantines the legionary roman cav, couldnt see what the byz inf was.

The Skirmish was the worst bit imho. Terrible.
I think Nus was embarrased for them.

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There were a few units of Hun Horse Archers among the Persians ~;) Did you notice those guys in their blue robes?

........Orda

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Originally Posted by Khorak

What would you suggest? Sticking around to get slaughtered? No, you belt it back to your own lines and if the enemy follow you they can suck down five units of infantry for their trouble as well.
Remember, this isn't the predictable and laughable RTW AI they're playing, there's a human on the other end and they quite obviously fight with a thought to how things would have actually been done as well as giving the team a semblance of a chance

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Without pinning the enemy cavalry first, as soon as your cavalry turn to run out of the combat they're going to be butchered by their pursuers.

But yes, perhaps the Byzantine player might have let them get away to give the team a chance, but the experts are supposed to be treating it for real. In reality, a horsemen is going to let his opponent turn around and walk away unless there was something else to distract them.

As it was, the team did bring in their infantry to try and pin the enemy and then the experts remarked, oh, that was rather a good idea.

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Originally Posted by Khorak

They wouldn't have pursued because the main objective of obliterating the attack on their left flank is complete, and following up would (in a wonderful world where the team didn't suck), simply be throwing away forces to the Persian meatgrinder.

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Their main objective would have been the elimination of the Persian cavalry in toto. Without them, the infantry would be useless and the battle would be over. I can't see the Byzantines hanging around, waiting for them to reform.

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Originally Posted by Khorak

(four badly organised idiots? I could murder the whole damn lot of them of my own, as could practically anyone here).

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Well, yes, but part of that is because there _are_ four of them. I think it's a lot tougher to work effectively as a team rather than effectively as a single player.