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Heh... I just remembered, I actually dreamt about Star Wars when I got home.
In my twisted dreams there were at least some clonetroopers that didn't turn and at least some jedi that survived and they went out in those nice tough little dropships to whereever...
i don't think the clone troopers had any special modifications other than to be absolutely loyal to their commander. which just happened to be palpatine. if he had told them to kill themselves or to kill him they would have done it just as easily as they turned on the jedi.
and i'm not sure that the creator of the clone army was dooku. all we know is that it was someone who claimed to be jedi master sifa-diyas who started it several years before episode II began. it could have been darth maul, could have been darth sidious, could have been sifa-diyas himself, if he was secretly a sith, and then was disposed of by maul to take his place next to sidious.
and i like the way the prophecy is fulfilled, because before kenobi cuts anakin down, kenobi says that anakin was supposed to bring balance to the force and destroy the sith which he does. he turns to the dark side and destroys the jedi then later on he turns to the light side and destroys the sith.
GAH, the Jedi were all idiots!
There were only two Sith left after Darth Maul dies, and there were hundreds and hundreds (thousands?) of Jedi all over the galaxy. It should have been obvious on which side of the scale you need to make order to have balance again. ~;)
See, I assumed Luke was the Chosen one, but yeah, it could be seen like that.
About the clone army: it was Dooku. He choose Jango (Tyrannus is his alias), and he used Sifo's name.
Kraxis, I also would have appreciated more nods towards the Expanded Universe. I'd love to see Z 95s, and Victory class Star Destroyers, and Dreadnaughts... Or best of all, a mention of the Outbound Flight Project... ~D
I agree. It would have been nicei f C'baoth had appeared as a Jedi Council member in one of the prequels.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steppe Merc
About the prophecy-It was my interpretation that Anakin WAS the chosen one, it just took a while for him to fulfill it. I mean, he does kill the Emperor...eventually.
Eventually Darth Sanctaphrax... ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Big King Sanctaphrax
Anyways, I want to see more Yoda Lightsabre action ~:eek: I really did think the Yoda vs Sidious duel was totally pointless though. I know that in an EU novel Dooku speculates that a Darth Yoda would spank Sidious so hard that errr...I could kill him but still, we knew Yoda wasn't going to be strong enough. I guess any excuse for Lucas to whip out his Special Effects budget eh?
Instead he could have hired a half decent script writer ~D :duel:
No, Anakin was the Chosen One obviously. But to me it was obvious from the beginning that the 'balance' would mean the death of the Jedi more or less.
Two Siths (Vader and Palpatine) and two Jedis (Yoda and Obi-Wan/Luke).
The Z95 Headhunter was a perfect subject here. It is the direct forerunner of the X-Wing, and it is at least 30 years old. Perfect, and a brightly new fighter in this movie. It would have fitted so perfectly because of its close ties to the X-Wing, the most famous vehicle of the old movies.
The Victory class SD is too late. I think it was invented at Kuat in Imperial times, leading to the normal SD within a short time as it was realized fast that the Victory too small (though bigger than the Republic assault ships shown in the movie). But the Dreadnaught would have been good, and to some extent I think we saw it. The long slender ships with a 'waist' were quite similar in both size and looks to the Dreadnaught, but here we are talking about the Seperatist ships, which again makes it less likely.
The Outbound Flight Project would have been nice, but we must assume that it was launched somewhere between II and III and not yet destroyed, but likely to get hunted down soon by the clones.
And yes, it was Lord Tyranus, or rather Darth Tyranus (remember Darth Sidious calls Dooku that) that ordered the army on behalf of Syfo-Dias (though obviously S-D had never accepted that). So most certainly he made certain that there was a trigger in the clones from the get go. Loyalty on the scale we are talking about amounts to more or less the same. Some sort of special tampering must have been made on the clones for them to be able to tunr on their comrades in arms like that. But personally I prefer the mindaltering trigger in the clones. Remember how friendly Cody and Obi-Wan are with each other. A person that knows he can get ordered to kill him would never become his friend. Also we see no wavering clones, no regrets or anything on that magnitude. Yet we do see them care for each other and normal people, so they are far from mindless brutes. Something out of the ordinary must have taken place, and I consider it a special trigger imbedded in the cloning of them.
But Palpatine only recruits Dooku after the failure of Darth Maul. Remember there is never more than two Sith.
The fight is only pointless when you know the results (which we sort of shouldn't know), but for the character of Yoda the fight was absolutely pointful ~D, he had to try and stop what Palpatine had set in motion. If only for the sake of the Jedi. If the most powerful Jedi-master never confronted the Sith lord in charge, what good would he be and what chance would the Light Side have?Quote:
Originally Posted by ah_dut
There is simply no reason as to why Yoda wouldn't do it.
Imagine having kids and showing them the movies some time in the future. I'm quite certain they would be surprised why Yoda didn't do anything to stop Palpatine after having wooped Dooku's rear in Episode II. "So is the Dark Side really stronger? Was that why Yoda didn't stop Palpatine? Did he know that he couldn't win?"
So I think it is unfair to go after Lucas like that. He had to create a movie that wasn't too unfluenced by the first three movies, at least not directly. He had to make it look the other way round really.
Well msot of the film was pointless ~;) I mean cut all the romance crap and leave in the action and we'll be just fine ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Kraxis
My point is that Yoda was not powerful enough to stop him. Mace was spanked really badly imo (I think Palpatine was deliberately faking when he was on the ledge as he somehow managed to pull some incredulously powerful lightning bolt out against Windu 10seconds later...) And as to another point, why didn't Yoda use a thought bomb? I know it's a sith trick but still...ahh the power of the geek ~D
It just saddens me that a specimin like Natilie Portman has to go and die ~:( ~D
Nah I was going to see it this weekend but I sprained and possibly fractured my ankle and it's a b****-and-a-half to move whatsoever because I cant walk and Im not good with crutches (its prob only sprained so I'll be able to walk in a few days with the help of my good buddy Tylenol and Codene) so I gotta wait till mem-day weekend. So yeah. It looks great though.
I'm hoping though that you get to see all the jedi kiddies get sliced up by Anakin. They were so damn annoying in the 2nd one.
no slicing them up man...it's implied
Damn you are sick!
That has got to be the most "NOOO... You didn't just do that Anakin" part of the entire movie. I actually expected them to get either gunned down or Palpatine to tell Anakin that he would transfer them to somewhere and do something with them, then kill them when he left.
The simple fact that it is Anakin that does it before he is consumed by the Dark Side implies that Lucas really wanted the movie to be a sad spectacle, and not in a technical way.
And the romance? Well, it is not great, but those two children that comes from it are rather important, so what to do without it? And actually it is not that bad, it is just that many people have become quite cynical, and I know a fair share that just loves to hate something in this latest movie, for the sake of hating it. The romance isn't great, but it is far from bad enough to deserve the flak it gets. The romance between Han and Leia isn't exactly superb either but have anybody ever seen anybody complain about it?
So just accept that there are part of every movie that won't be great.
Thought-bomb? Yup! Yoda would just pull out a special maneuver he had never shown himself capable of before, and not even implied to Luke that either he or Luke could do. Stick to films when discussing them, the EU is useable as mentioned earlier, but it is also very much a sidelined issue (remember the Death Star plans? Where was the Maw Installation? And now again).
Mace might indeed have been defeated, we will never know. I think Palpatine was indeed in trouble as his lightning doubled back on him, and we know that is not pleasant to even very strong Jedis (Luke and Anakin twice, Luke nearly died from a similar dosis). What I think Palpatine was doing was that he was overplaying his situation, playing the weak and the one needing protection from the big bad Mace Windu. But he did need the help, he was just not as weak as he let Anakin think he was and thus easily blasted Mace when he couldn't defend himself.
So if Mace could perhaps defeat Palpatine then Yoda could too and thus we have the basis for Yoda's intervention.
I think that Yoda could have beaten him with Obi's help. Palpatine himself tried to run away from Yoda, and to me it seemed very close. He also seemed to always reflect back the attacks of Palpatine against him, other than force push. That seems a bit... limited, but then again it is the Light Side...
On a slightly different note, what did you guys think of the ghost thingy with Qui Gon? I liked that they mentioned it, but how did Anakin find it out? Or did he succeed with his search of immorality, and do it then? Or is it a way of saying the only way to be truly imortal is to be good, and that even if you can live forever when you're bad, it's not worth it?
I also read an interview with Lucas, and he mentions the whole immaculate conception thing. He said that it was open to the audience of whether it was Darth Plagus who created him, or whether it was the Force itself. Any other hard core fans, what do you think? :book:
I doubt Darth Plagus did it... He was too selfcentered to do that, and naive apparently. Also Plagus would most likely have died some years before Anakin was born. At least this confirms it to me that Plagus was indeed the master of Palpatine.
Remember this, Yoda and Obi-Wan vanished when they died, apparently they became one with the Force naturally, while Qui-Gon wasn't nearly as powerful and had to learn it.
And wasn't it Obi-Wan who had to learn to communicate with Qui-Gon? Indicating that Luke is indeed extremely talented as he doesn't need to learn to communicate with them, he just can, while Leia can't (it has also been confirmed she isn't nearly as good as Luke).
I have a quick OT question and I think this is probably the right thread for it.
What race is Yoda? I always thought he was just some unique guy, but then in KOTOR there was another just like him on the Jedi Council.
The younger pinker one was called yaddle and she is a female of the same species as yoda.
and according to starwars.com
yoda
Homeworld:
Unknown
Species:
Unknown
yaddle
Homeworld:
Unknown
Species:
Unknown
and she is roughly half the age of yoda.
Hope that helps ~D
...Aha...Thanks.
Actually doesn't she sit on the council in Episode I? I seem to remember another Yoda sitting on his right side quite far out (and thus in the line of panning camera).
Watched it yesterday.
I have to say it beats everything Lucas has done so far in terms of scope and even dramatic load. Also thanks God he concentrated on Anakin this time instead of filling the screen with weird supposedly funny animals (read Jar-Jar Binks). Of course is an FX show, but could you expect less? There are many stupid dialogue lines ("I have the high ground"... ~:confused: ) or strange things going on (why when Palpatine transforms into Sith fighting with Mace half his teeth disappear?) or why does Palpatine keeps laughing thrughou all of the fight with Yoda? (and what kinda lungs does one need to do that?) but I find it a very good film and Im going to watch it again on Thursday (with my friends as opposed to my gf this time ~;) ).
i wished oh, how i wished that there would be a glimpse of a lieutanant or a captain thrawn somewhere in a background shot. maybe in the dvd release.
and the whole 'two and only two' power structure of the sith involves such a loss of knowledge for the sith over time. palpatine claimed that plagus knew the secret of immortality. palpatine also claimed that plagus' apprentice killed him after he had learned all that he could possibly learn from plagus. that is obviously false as the apprentice did not know the secret of immortality and sidious try to strike a deal with vader for them to study it together. so who knows how much of the sith knowledge is lost with each transfer of power.
Remember just because you have the knowledge in the Force doesn't mean you are strong enough to utilize it. That is Palpatine's problem.
Also, it is clearly stated that the Empire was already long established when Thrawn came to them. It was a boderdispute out in the Unknown Regions. The Empire is only just established now, so it is a bit hard to include him.
But we got Grand Moff Tarkin (most likely not a Grand Moff yet), that was nice enough.
Nokhor: Sidious was Plagus' apprentice. Lucas said so.
What's this referring to? I missed any reference to Tarkin in Episode 3 - can you fill me in if there was one?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraxis
Right at the end, on the Imperial Cruiser/Star Destroyer bridge as Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine overlook the construction of the Death Star, Tarkin (Governor at this stage) can be seen with them and walks off. They did a great job on the likeness - he really looked like Peter Cushing. Shame we didn't see more of him.
Didnt Palpaltine in this film refer to Plaguses asistant killing him? So Sidious killed him? its all so clear now Palpaltine being the asistant killing him am i right?. :book:Quote:
Originally Posted by Steppe Merc
At the very end when Palpatine and Darth Vader are watching the construction of the Death Star from the bridge of a Star Destroyer you get a glimpse of an officer standing next to them as the camera moves away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Appleton
His name is not mentioned and he does not say anything (and actually you only see him from rather far away) - but his facial features clearly seem to hint at Tarkin.
I actually was surprised how much this guy looked like Peter Cushing at first glance - perhaps some CGI, which would also explain why they only showed him from a rather distant perspective.
EDIT: BKB beat me to it ~:)
Yup. ~D Darn Sith, so confusing an lying... ~;)Quote:
Didnt Palpaltine in this film refer to Plaguses asistant killing him? So Sidious killed him? its all so clear now Palpaltine being the asistant killing him am i right?.
I would think it is rather obvious that Plagus was Palpatine's master, when he mentions the killing of Plagus he has that sly smile that he always uses when he has done something to further his own agenda. I noticed it along my pal alongside me, but then again we tend to pick Star Wars movies apart, so I guess we are rather trained for such ques.
Btw, I think I saw Peter Cushing in the castlist... But I could be mixing him up with Peter Mayhew (back as Chewie).
But I'm certain that Tarkin was at least partially CGI rendered, for he did walk rather strange (as if the crew had had trouble keeping up with the actor) and he looked a bit non-Tarkin like in his behaviour, he simply didn't have the correct gait and I felt his mimic was a bit constrained. But all in all I loved it! A tine small connection, the sort of stuff I had hoped for. Yes Chewie was great, but that you sort of expected. Tarkin on the other hand... Also I would have loved to see a young Ozzel or Piet walking the pit or something like that. Perhaps even being in the battle in the beginning.
Btw, did anyone but me consider it a bit strange that it would take the Empire about 18 years to build the first Death Star but only about 1 year to build the larger second Death Star (although only 60% finished)... Fits very badly with the EU and the Maw Installation.
I was wondering the same thing. The only thing I could figure is that perhaps Palpatine took the first one slow, to consilidate his power, and to not threaten his new Fleet (they'd be out of a job with the Death Star, really... though it's not that practical at all).Quote:
Btw, did anyone but me consider it a bit strange that it would take the Empire about 18 years to build the first Death Star but only about 1 year to build the larger second Death Star (although only 60% finished)... Fits very badly with the EU and the Maw Installation.
Mabye the first one got destroyed (not likely, but...)?
Or the plans weren't completed, and they had to sort of BS a lot of it, which took time (like leaving an open reactor port...)
Really? Tarkin was DA MAN!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ser Clegane
One of my favorite movie/eu characters...ever.
Only sw characters that beat him out have to be Vader, Ulic Qel-Droma, Exar Kun, Piett, Yoda, and Tyrannus.