Which I'm sure he is aware of. Besides, he's Canadian.Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Khalifah
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Which I'm sure he is aware of. Besides, he's Canadian.Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Khalifah
Am I a usual suspect? Since you commented that my earlier post was non-sensical and childish, where I was asking if this move had simply garnered any Palestinian goodwill, you haven't responded once.Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho
Nice red herring, though.
You are blaming the victim for fighting back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofball
By your thinking the Polish Jews who fought back in the Ghettos where in error.
The error of the Palestinians has been to attack civilians...terrorism.
The error of the Israelis has been to attack civilians... collateral damage.
When occupying a land you have an obligation to treat the occupied humanely. The failure to do so and the resulting backlash is the primarily the fault of the occupier, however the acts of terrorism I will always lay back at the people who did it.
Get the ultra-right settlers out of the occupied territories. Tighten up the Israeli borders. The resources used to defend the 8000 in the occupied zone will be much better used to defend the rest of Israel on their borders.
If Palestine then decides to mount an invasion against Israel proper, then Israel should get the full support of the west. To the point that Israel should then become the greater Israel with the caveat that all in its borders become citizens with access to all the basics needed to live and learn.
Arab media is all over it:
Sharon: Champion of all Arabs (temporarily)
Settlers: naughty kids
Palestinians: Freedom at last!
American Media (i watch primarily CNN):
Settlers: Heroes
Sharon: Bad
Palestinians: ditto.
On another note i support the isrealis wrecking the settlers homes, first their homes are compact not fit for palestinan Ashayer families (1 Asheera consists of all relatives and friends of relatives and relatives of relatives... well you get the picture) and secondly the settlers themselves have already stripped their homes bare, so there is not much in there to make it a viable living place, i mean even water sinks and toilets got removed, might as well take the building apart stone by stone and take it with you, third if the buildings are demolished any reasonings by the settlers to return will be eroded.
Everything seems well for now, but i hear rumors settlers will be relocated to the west bank, if thats true, thats creating a whole load of trouble by itself.
It's nothing but a policy scorched earth. It's despicable, selfish, petty, and imparts the notion that they are removing their goods so that criminals will not profit from them after they leave. In fact it was the settlers who were the criminals and the Palestinians the victims of their crimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by faisal
It wouldn't surprise me a nickel's worth if wells were destroyed and half-grown crops bulldozed.
Petty, petty, petty. Take the $350,000 payoff, bulldoze the house, plow over the crops, tear out the flowers, cement the well, and tell everyone what a bunch of bastards the Palestinians are who will be living on the scorched earth pile of dirt where a perfectly good house was that was torn down for no other reason than pride and spite.
Those Israeli's are just monsters!Quote:
Originally Posted by Beirut
How could they do that?
Mohammed el-Samhouri, a consultant to the Palestinian ministerial committee deciding how best to use the abandoned settlements, says the houses are unsuitable for their needs: "We're not looking for American housing where you have a backyard and a frontyard and a tennis court. We would rather they demolished them."
Rather disingenious really. Why quote an institutional source for the first and a radical one for the second? Why not get a quote from Sharon and compare it with Abbas? Then why not compare Hamas' quote with one from one of the ultra nationalist groups?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
This is typical of the kinds of reporting we are subjected to daily.
Perhaps we should commission a survey that asks Israelis if they 'understand why the settler shot 3 Palestinians'. When 35% say yes we can have big headlines "35% of Isrealis symptathise with Jewish terror".
Some of you just can´t stop hating one side, can you?
If I understand that correctly, Israel was to be destroyed many years ago, but they won and occupied some land, terror began. Now both sides didn´t go one step back for years, showing weakness is deadly I guess. Finally Israel wants to give some of the land back to the Palestinians, their first step towards peace.
Now we have innocent Palestinians who just want to live in peace and don´t support terrorism, I think it´s good for them and they deserve some good land to live on.
Then there are Hamas and other terrorists, who should shut up and stop but will most definitely go on with their attacks in order to destroy Israel. I hope their support will stop, making them unable to go on.
On the other side there is the Israeli government that made a good step, whatever the reason was.
Then there are the israeli soldiers who have a hard job throwing settlers out who act like nice families and innocent poor people making female soldiers cry, I wish them strength to throw them out anyway. ~D
And finally we got the settlers who don´t want to go(I think there are some who are gone already, I´m fine with them), they should just stop crying in my oppinion and be thrown out. I always wondered how one can feel comfortable by demanding soldiers to secure them on occupied land and to demand a state to make their living in a war zone as comfortable as possible. That´s just stupid, they can´t even claim any "connection to their homeland" because it isn´t their homeland, and btw what is a homeland that is routinely hit by mortar-shells? :dizzy2:
Just my oppinion, there are people to blame for so many things on both sides, but if we(and they) are not able to forgive and work on a solution, there will be no solution. You can´t have peace if you can´t forgive your enemies. ~:handball:
Perhaps we should turf some Americans out of their homes so we can restore the land to its rightful owners? If we're having a bleeding hearts moment for some really really oppressed people... Or maybe we should try to live in the now rather than bringing up the past.
Yeah but the point is that the present for Palestinians is sh*t and for Isrealis is far better.
Where would you rather live:
a:http://wvl.indymedia.org/uploads/200....jpgalri1f.jpg
or
b:http://www.col.fr/judeotheque/images/tel-aviv.jpg
If you really can't decide between the two - these minor factors might just swing it:
In a you can't go out at night because of a military curfew. In a you have no direct access to ports or airports. In fact you might not even have a passport. B is sadly lacking in tanks and checkpoints. B also lacks a's honest, rough and ready approach to healthcare and schooling. A is a bit duff for work - as even if you get a job you might not be able to turn up reliably if the military shut down the roads (frequently). However A is excellent if you are bothered by relatives dropping by - as the chances are they will be in different towns - or even different countries with little chance of ever being allowed to visit.
Again the Palestians made their bed now they have to sleep in it. I have no sympathy for such a nation of terrorists. Yes I know their not all terrorists but they certainly dont do much to stop it. This goes for most of the middle east. I believe most love this and celebrate everytime a Jew is killed. I dont think most of them want to live in peace unless its one in which Israel no longer exists. They oppose this terror about as much as southeners oppossed slavery. They wouldnt be living is this squalor if they behaved like civilized human beings.
Well at last Gawain has pinned his colours to the mast. One small minded bigot served up with fries - come and collect your order.
Make that two small minded bigots and could I have some gravy with the fries?Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho
The Palestinians are largely the architects of their own misfortune! And what about those poor Al Qaeda folks having to live in fear, running for their lives? They have to live like hunted animals! Shouldn't we feel sorry for them as well?
When the majority of Palestinians get a clue and finally figure out that killing Jews isn't helping THEM, then they might get some of my sympathy. The dancing in the streets when somebody gets murdered however suggests they have a ways to go.
Wow. You need to step things down a notch there Tex. The disco's open all night, no need to make an ass of yourself in the first five minutes. You have been the one putting on the best demonstration of small-mindedness with your incessant "Israelis are all evil/Palestinians are all innocent victims" chant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho
You like pictures pictures, eh?
How about this one:
http://www.jta.org/storage/articleimages/13868.jpg
or this one:
http://www.bized.ac.uk/images/suicide_bomb.jpg
or this one:
http://www.geocities.com/neomi59/098.jpg
Hope you enjoyed viewing the handy-work of your Palestinian "victims."
Well the disco may have only just started - but you certainly seemed to have smoked your full stash of crack already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofball
When did I say Israelis are evil? When? In fact quite the opposite all I have stated is that the Palestinians are not evil but thoroughly shafted by all those around them. That obviously cuts against the grain of the endless pro-Israeli propaganda you swallow daily and hence you get your knickers in a twist.
I suppose you never gave that impression.Quote:
When did I say Israelis are evil? When?
We all agree on that . When are the Palestinains going to realise it and stop blaming the Jews?Quote:
In fact quite the opposite all I have stated is that the Palestinians are not evil but thoroughly shafted by all those around them.
That obviously cuts against the grain of the endless pro-Palestinian propaganda you swallow daily and hence you get your knickers in a twist.
Hmmm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho
My mistake, I guess. I just assumed that when you accuse people of stealing water and land and of running a brutal apartheid state, that the implication is that you believe them to be evil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho
Mea culpa.
Gawain and Goof, I agree that the Palestinians need to stop the terrorists in their midsts, as well as trying to stop just blaiming Isreal. But couldn't it also be said that the Isreali people should stop allowing their government to comment highly illegal and imoral actions against the Palestinians?
Excuse me but what is the name of this thread again? Last I checked Israel was a democracy. ~;)Quote:
But couldn't it also be said that the Isreali people should stop allowing their government to comment highly illegal and imoral actions against the Palestinians?
Yeah, I know, I named the thread. ~;)
And yes, it is a step in the right direction, I think. And if the government continues to do the right thing, than that is good. And yes, the Isrealis gave, now it is time the Palestinians to act.
But the Isreali government still aren't the nicest people.
Really? I don't recall anyone in Greater Israel being granted a vote in the elections. That's either an admission that Greater Israel isn't actually Israel but occupied land or that Israel isn't a democracy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
None of those are accusations. They are all facts. Which one isn't true?Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofball
I didn't specifically accuse people, I addressed my points to the state of Israel - do keep up, it's tiresome to have to spell everything out twice.
One thing I would like to see:
In the news coverage I have seen, the Israeli soldiers/police have for the most part been handling this with professionalism and courtesy. Even in situations where militant protestors have been right in their faces calling them Nazis, they have replied with a smile "It's very hot out today sir, please accept this bottle of water."
What I would love to see is for them use the same tactics in future confrontations with Palestinian protestors as well. It would go a long way towards easing tension.
Gaza is Israeli land, why Israel is giving into the Terrorists in the Palestinian "government" is beyond me.
Why is it Isreali land?
I feel sorry for the soldiers. They are just doing their duty and having acid thrown in their faces is just cruel.
There is so much that is beyond you Kaiser that there simply isn't hours in the day or space on the server mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia
Now, now - I think the topic of this thread gives ample opportunity to focus on the issues without having to resort to personal jabs.
Here in Germany we throw people out of their houses just because there have been some trees thousands of years ago... ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Al Khalifah
Certain people I highly respect have pointed out that I'm acting like a spoiled brat (in European parlance, a wanker), so my self-imposed exile is over. What better thread to pick to start posting again...
Personally, I think Sharon is doing the right thing, and I hope he will continue by pulling out of the West Bank (Jersualsem is NOT part of the West Bank, btw). I am curious however about a couple of things...
-If the Palestinian Authority is serious about disarming militants and putting an end to violence, why are they letting them march through the streets in the hundreds, brandishing weapons (courtesy of CNN).
-If Israel does withdraw, and the attacks continue, are you all going to go apeshit if the Israelis close their borders to Palestine? If so, is it your position that nations at war should always be forced to maintain an open border? If not, what makes this case different?
-This one is for serious debate... how long do people give Abbas? My guess is less than 18 months. Hamas, which despite Idaho's assertions, is no lunatic fringe group. They're actually one of the largest parties, if not the largest party.
-Finally, again, this one is for serious discussion: Beirut, Idaho and other Palestinian advocates.... once the pullout is complete, will you recognize Israel's right to exist within their 1948 boundaries?
By the way, Idaho, you might want to find some "Evil Jews" propaganda shots. Your photograph of how easy the Israelis have it shows a large & ornately decorated mosque, right in the foreground.