Because their reality detracts from reality. Welcome to the movies.Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar44
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Because their reality detracts from reality. Welcome to the movies.Quote:
Originally Posted by caesar44
Caesar, with real characters we aren't always sure how they would act. I mean, I think Shapur the First would be an excellent source of a movie. This guy defeated 3 Roman Emperors! But do we have enough information on his personal life, how he acted, what he felt in order to make a convincing movie?
It is possible that a more interesting story would be about a fictional Savaran commander who served in all of Shapur's campaigns, since the author could just invent how he would act (as long as he acts like a true Sassanian might).
Of course, the public is far too ignorant to know about who the Sassanians were, much less about Shapur, despite him being just as interesting if not more as the Western military heros...
I'd like to see a movie about Hadrian or Xenophon's tenthousand.
???Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianII
If Alexander took Tyre in 8 months , just show it in the movie , we don't want to see the 8 month siege...give me a break
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steppe Merc
Steppe , are you talking about the Sapur (I think with out the "s") who took Valerianus as a prisoner un 262 ce ? the first time ever for a Roman emperor to become a POW . well , you can make a film about him that includes everything that we know about him , it is still going to be 4 h' movie...yet , you can fill the gaps with a reasonable anecdotes , it is still will be a realistic movie .
Btw , you are right , never saw a movie about a "Barbaric" Eastern hero like a Persian king of kings .
Double
Don't stress yourself. Only an old WS&IM junkie like me is likely to know such obscure info. The 68 was a key element for the Nederlunders/Batavians -- though apparently it could not withstand a cavalry charge. ~:)Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianII
Seamus
Oliver Stone knows how to make a good movie. Platoon is an example. He also knows how to make a really bad movie. Alexander is an example.
I saw both the theatrical and director's cut versions. Both were poorly done. I think if I were to try and put all the error into a simple statement it would be: Stone did not understand his topic.
I just know him as Shapur the first (how can it be without the s?) And yeah, he took Valerian captive. But he also defeated Gordian the 3rd (not sure if he died in the battle), and the armies of Philip the Arab. Then Shapur took Valerian captive along with many senators and officers.Quote:
Steppe , are you talking about the Sapur (I think with out the "s") who took Valerianus as a prisoner un 262 ce ? the first time ever for a Roman emperor to become a POW . well , you can make a film about him that includes everything that we know about him , it is still going to be 4 h' movie...yet , you can fill the gaps with a reasonable anecdotes , it is still will be a realistic movie .
Btw , you are right , never saw a movie about a "Barbaric" Eastern hero like a Persian king of kings .
Quite an impressive resume. And I agree, it would be a long movie. But my point is, is their enough from the Sassanian sources and from the Roman sources to say what sort of man Shapur was? Could he be made into a believable person? And having him win the battles he did and look Iranian (most idiotic directors would probably get an Arab to play him...) would only go so far, is what we are trying to say.
Ehm, I am an old WS&IM junkie... or was, twenty odd years ago. That's why I got my tunic in a twist over that stupid mistake. I could of course try to explain that I merely mistook lbs for gun numbers, but I believe 68 pounders in those days would typically be carronades mounted on halfdecks and forecastles. No use hiding behind them then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
Good grief, I'm a Jonah... :embarassed:
[QUOTE=Steppe Merc]I just know him as Shapur the first (how can it be without the s?)
Ask them...http://www.beastcoins.com/Sasanian/Sasanian.htm
or them - http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare.../anatolia.html
or them - http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/rs/rak/cou...4ch3-3-182.htm
or them - http://www.turkeyjourney.com/southeast_zeugma.htm
and many more ~:cheers:
The first link spells it like I do: Shapur I.
And how could it be without the S? Hapur the First?
Or do you mean without the H?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steppe Merc
Yes yes , with out the "h"... :embarassed: :embarassed: :embarassed: sorry :embarassed: :embarassed: :embarassed:
Sapur...(it is 01:25 here in the Middle East...)
No , not Hapur...sorry again...
so Shapur or Sapur ?
Just to confuse things further.
Other spellings of the same name.
Parthian šhypwhr
Sasanian šhpwr-y
Manichean Pahlavi š'bwhr
Book Pahlavi šhpwhl
Armenian šapowh
Syriac šbwhr
Sogdian š'p(')wr
Bactrian aßor(o) and aßoro
Greek Sapur, Sabour and Sapuris
Latin Sapores and Sapor
Arabic Sâbur and Šâbur
New Persian Šâpur, Šâhpur, Šahfur
The š is SH
Jeshush. :dizzy2:Quote:
Originally Posted by sharrukin
This movie was great and was rather historical...
Sure they mixed battles, but common this is a movie, and everything need s to help the movie progress foward. It was meant to portray alexanders character and it did a very fine job of that...
I agree. ~:cheers:Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Atlantis
It was a blast of a game. Remember re-fighting Trafalgar and the Saintes with my dad for weekends in a row. Good fun. Jeez, I think it was almost 30 years ago now, 27+ for sure....damn, I'm an old poot :help:Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianII
You were right about the smashers. 68 was the big brit carronade of choice.
Seamus
'I've grappled successfully, Dad. And I've loaded grape...'Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
'Ughhh...'
~:cheers:
I won as Nelson in a huge MP Trafalgar scenario. Two teams of six players each. We used the hand-painted models and an enlarged hex map about 3 x 3 metres. Communication was done by flag signal and sealed orders. Great stuff. That day De Villeneuve was last seen boarding a bus under cover of darkness, dressed in a skirt and high heels.Not sure about the halfdeck though. Could you confirm, master Seamus?Quote:
You were right about the smashers.
*Beats to quarters*
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharrukin
~:eek: ~:eek: ~:eek: So lets call him just happy Sapi ~:)
Actually, he was normally vexed at my seemingly insane luck at notching critical hits. :furious3: ~D ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by AdrianII
Hope Villy was a lass going home -- and not just humliated ~:) That scenario sounds like a blast -- and the team effect would definitely add to things. Was your "Collingwood" equally as good as you?Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianII
Well, there was no set policy. A captain could mount the guns of his ship more or less as he chose, within the limitations imposed by structure. I have never read about them being mounted anywhere aside from the forecastle (widest possible zone of fire), though they would have been mountable (weight-wise) anywhere you could mount a long 18 or short 24. WS&IM cheated them on range -- they could hit targets well just as far out as standard 12 or short 24.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianII
Seamus
P.S. Clear for action if you can before you beat to quarters -- extra partitions and such only add to the splinters. ~D
I used to play WSIM all the time. I liked the Battle of the Nile.
Ohhh yes the Ten Thousand!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoffrey S
It is a perfect subject for a movie. It has more than enough action, it has intrigues, it has the scenery for great visual effects (I mean an army crossing high mountains in winter) and it has all too much of human foolishness.
Now who would be a good Xenophon? I'm pretty sure that Ewan McGregor would be up to the task, but would he fee like the man? Jude Law??? The other way round I think...
Xenophon would be tough to cast. A young man who is very fit, shows bright intelligence and has a commanding air about him, while a streak of hurt when not listened to.
Several older actors could do it, but they wouldn't be able to look 25 years old at most. And without that he would become unbelieveable.
Are we talking Avalon Hills Woodenships and Ironmen? The computer or the board game? Man I played that like forever. ~;)Quote:
It was a blast of a game. Remember re-fighting Trafalgar and the Saintes with my dad for weekends in a row. Good fun. Jeez, I think it was almost 30 years ago now, 27+ for sure....damn, I'm an old poot
You were right about the smashers. 68 was the big brit carronade of choice.
Seamus
Pindar and Gawain were WS&IM junks, too? We are in good company, Seamus! :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
*Change tack, Mr Fermanagh, and keep a close haul if you please*
It's a game for quality people.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianII
He was excellent, though rather peculiar. Actually my 'Collingwood' was British by birth, but for some reason his atomic scientist Dad was spirited out of the UK in the 1960's after some military experiment involving huge fuses and nuclear loads went horribly wrong. A scandal was averted (this was the heyday of the Cold War) and he sued for divorce and lived in Franco's Spain whilst his ex-wife lived in The Netherlands where she brought up my 'Collingwood'. His Dad was quite a character. I never learned the whole truth about that turning point in his career though. Pity, with me being a journalist and all...Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
Anyway, I knew of his capacities from previous scenarios (he was my commander as Brueys in an Aboukir Bay game - indeed, Pindar) and I had noticed that he was passive aggressive, to the point of calculating his ships' moves with exquisite precision to obtain good firing angles yet preserving his own hulls. That is the right stuff for a vanguard commander, so I put him in charge of our vanguard in the Trafalgar monster scenario and issued a sealed order that in case something untoward would befall me (as Nelson), 'no Captain can do very wrong by steering his ship in the wake of the His majesty's Vanguard'.
Apart from commanding the entire fleet, I also commanded the four British frigates at Trafalgar and by combining their firepower managed to take a huge Spanish SOL (can't remember which anymore) and tow it out of harm's way.
Hmm heady days...
EDIT
I forgot to tell.. we gave up the two column idea (that was too predictable anyway) and I just let my 'Collingwood' split the enemy line behind Bucentaure. With most of my ships following in his wake, he went right through their line intact (no unpleasant drifters disturbing our line) and turned north, close to the wind, so the southern part of Villeneuve's fleet could not come to the rescue of the northern part, and they wouldn't have got there anyway because my Rear was covering us. Once 'Collingwood' had made his move and turned north, there was an audible gnashing of teeth on the opposite side of the table, bottles of Cognac were popped open in despair... ~D
SECOND EDIT
This was twenty years ago, but I remember Collingwood eventually lost one of his ships (Mars or Tonnant most likely) and sent it into the enemy line whilst burning and on the verge of exploding... That was when they seriously hit the Cognac -- imagine a live bomb floating around your flagship beating up wind...
Gawain:
Played the computer game, but adored the old cardboard navies more.
Adrian2:
Sounds like your group was a great "blast" of fun to play with.
Pindar:
I agree!
All:
...very good sir. I'll have them take a reef in the mizzen t'gallant to put a little more pressure up forward, maybe we can lay her a quarter point closer on the new tack. Hands to stations! Step lively!...
Seamus
Steady helm! He's hauling up the main course for battle and won't keep the wind of us now. Well done Mr Fermanagh!Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
I personally think the movie was awsome! I think it had a few flaws ("for the freedom...and glory of greece). I think it is mostly historically accurate.
By the way, you guys are reading books that are made way too far after Alexander's death. You need to read the Arrian's book. It was written 300 years after his death... ~D