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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
So us Americans are just too violent, stupid, and afraid to own guns.
I can just see the next UN resolution: confiscate all American firearms from the country.
I wonder where they'll get the weapons inspectors from to do that?
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
Well I have been taught ever sense i was 10, that if this ever happens to me.....give them the bullets first!
I want the people doing this to be lined up on a wall and shot. I am not joking this is treason.
I know every one is tired of my gun ranting so this all i will say on the subject.
btw did any one read about the man who shot 3 looters ~:cheers: the scum deserved it.
.........................................................
I did not read the whole thread so this may have been posted but here is another movie.
http://www.ktvu.com/news/4936363/detail.html
go to the one that says
CHP Takes Part In Door-To-Door Searches
I think the lady has a smith and wesson model 10 with the pencil barrel (they dont make them like that any more sadly :embarassed: )
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
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Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good
So us Americans are just too violent, stupid, and afraid to own guns.
I don't think they are, nor are the Swiss or the Canadians.
But what is the fundamental difference that causes Americans to bring a gun to a conflict where Canadians or Swiss don't? Can you tell me that?
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
Because there aren't gansters w/ illegal automatics running around Canada or Switzerland? If I lived in a crappy city, I sure as hell would carry a gun in my car. I've been in situations were having a gun would've saved people from almost getting killed. Unfortuneatly its not just some myth, our crime is awful.
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
Carrying guns does not mean you are afraid.
I suggest you anti gunners go lurk at this forum
http://thefiringline.com/
While some of these guys are very extreme and freak even me out. They are very good at debating gun control.
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
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Originally Posted by Spetulhu
If I get called up for military duty I won't hesitate to collect guns from civilians in a disaster area. All armies I ever heard of reserve the right to confiscate whatever they need or want as long as there's a situation of emergency or martial law going. So does the one I'm part of.
Your house, your car, your guns, it doesn't matter. You can cry about your rights later. Maybe you'll even get compensation.
And I won't hesitate to blow the head off of the theives. So we're at an equal standing. Freedom means more than any man's life.
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
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Originally Posted by Kanamori
If I lived in a crappy city, I sure as hell would carry a gun in my car.
I know I would probably own a gun if I lived in the U.S. and I wouldn't hesitate to bring it along in certain circumstances.
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Unfortuneatly its not just some myth, our crime is awful.
So how come?
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
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Originally Posted by Kanamori
Because there aren't gansters w/ illegal automatics running around Canada or Switzerland? If I lived in a crappy city, I sure as hell would carry a gun in my car. I've been in situations were having a gun would've saved people from almost getting killed. Unfortuneatly its not just some myth, our crime is awful.
Because Canada and Switzerland don't have millions of mexicans, a good number of them criminals, pouring across their boarders every year with the intent to drain off of society and threaten good citizens with harm and death?
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
We are not tough enough on crime imo.
I would love to see 50 years with no parole for "minor crimes" like burglary.
I would like the death penalty to be used more often.
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
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Originally Posted by ceasar010
We are not tough enough on crime imo.
I would love to see 50 years with no parole for "minor crimes" like burglary.
I would like the death penalty to be used more often.
Now that might be going over the top :dizzy2:
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
Because we have a violent culture w/ easy acess to illegal guns. I maintain that very few cold-blooded crimes ever happen w/ a legally bought weapon, they'd have to be beyond stupid to do that.
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
Btw while we are talking about katrina.....did any one take steps to make your house more "looter proof" I am going to by an sks....and so is my uncle.
South....how I am going over the top. The people who do crime know it is wrong and they have hurt good people; why should society show them ANY mercy?
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
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Originally Posted by ceasar010
South....how I am going over the top. The people who do crime know it is wrong and they have hurt good people; why should society show them ANY mercy?
But how far are you willing to go death penaly for what 50 years for wht our prison system is already under staffed and overcrowded we need to crack down on the arms dealers themselves fix the cuase not the symptons
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
Our prisons won't be over crowded if we use the death penalty more ~;)
I say use it for any violent crime with ( few) exceptions. after a few years people will be to afraid to commit crimes ~:cheers:
While I admit my ideas are pretty cruel... after a while crime rates will drastically drop!
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
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Originally Posted by ceasar010
Our prisons won't be over crowded if we use the death penalty more ~;)
I say use it for any violent crime with ( few) exceptions. after a few years people will be to afraid to commit crimes ~:cheers:
While I admit my ideas are pretty cruel... after a while crime rates will drastically drop!
It worked for Napoleon. ~:cheers:
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
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Originally Posted by AdrianII
What else do you expect if we discuss entire societies, Redleg? For instance, from you I would expect a balanced view on the different numbers of gun-related deaths in the U.S. and in countries such as Canada or Switzerland where gun ownership is just as widespread.
Naw -- however I should of but a smilie to show I was just being sarcastic - I forgot to do that on the post.
The Generalization though is still slighlty off - most American's in my opinion don't think that the world is a jungle. The issue of gun ownership is far more ingrained and complex then just that.
Look at the varying degree's of opinion on the issue of weapons in the United States. You will find those who support getting rid of all weapons, those who support getting rid of all firearms, those who support limitations on the types of weapons an individual is allowed to own, and those who support absolutely no restrictions on the type of weapons an individual can own.
Then you start getting into why people think this way. Some do indeed think that the world is a jungle and therefor they must protect themselves from it. Then you have those who support the 2nd Amendment based solely on the premise of why the founding fathers placed the Amendment in the constitution using the words that they did. To buy into the argument that the world is a jungle - I would have to live in constant fear of my survival - therefor I need the ability to protect myself from the greater predator. Well I don't live in fear, I don't own a single handgun, I have only a couple of weapons - one is an historical family piece that I am proud to have - an 1873 Winchester with a serial number below 30000. I also only own a shotgun and a hunting rifle.
Why is violence so ingrained in the american conscience is what you should be asking AdrainII and it really is a good question for all Americans to consider.
However Kaiser your xenophoia for Mexicans is beginning to show through.
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Originally Posted by Kaiser
Because Canada and Switzerland don't have millions of mexicans, a good number of them criminals, pouring across their boarders every year with the intent to drain off of society and threaten good citizens with harm and death?
Canada has a few problems along their coastal cities last time I really check the news about their violence issues. Not near as bad as the United States - but the illegal immigrantion problem also effects them - but primarily with Asians.
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
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Originally Posted by Redleg
I have only a couple of weapons - one is an historical family piece that I am proud to have - an 1873 Winchester with a serial number below 30000.
Woot! That must be a real beauty - Winchester being about the best 19th century lever rifle.
http://www.armchairgunshow.com/images/1173WW0085.jpg
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Why is violence so ingrained in the american conscience is what you should be asking AdrainII and it really is a good question for all Americans to consider.
I have been asking this for the past five posts, Redleg.
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
Redleg I will trade you my new winchester I just bought a couple months ago ~D (its probably not worth a third of what your is :help: )
I dont understand people who want guns banned...why do you fear them? If guns kill then pens write hate mail ~D
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
Adrian, I understand your point, that as long as we're looking to defend ourselves, we'll see a threat out there, somewhere. It's an interesting viewpoint. I'm not certain I agree with it, as Canada has roughly the same firearms ownership rate (if not slightly higher) but has a much, much lower violent crime rate.
I honestly don't know why Americans tend to be more violent than most other Western socities. I mean, we do have Quentin Tarantino, but the Brits have Guy Ritchie. Not all that much difference, so it's not the media aspect. We have gun ownership, but so do the Canadians, so it's not that either. It's not a question of laws & legality. It might have something to do with the way our penal system is set up, as I believe our prisons are a hell of a lot worse than anyplace else. Beyond that, the only thing we have left is cultural defintions... how do we see ourselves and what do we as a society value.
If I lived in a place that I didn't feel the need to own a gun, I probably wouldn't. I might keep a shotgun for sporting (trap & skeet) but I wouldn't keep a .357 magnum next to my bed. But I live in a relatively pleasant middle-to-upper class neighborhood in a fairly nice part of town, and we've had 3 home invasions this year alone. You tell me if I'm being paranoid.
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
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Originally Posted by AdrianII
Mines a little more worn then that - it comes from about 5 generations of the family where at least 2 of them activitily used the the weapon. But its still in remarkable shape.
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I have been asking this for the past five posts, Redleg.
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I think they missed it in the langauge that you used. That is why I used the words that I did. I have been guilty of doing the same thing in a previous thread with Tribesman because of the point I wished to make and my desire to defend my point, so I sort of understand why some have missed what you were really asking. Sometimes its better to just point out what the question is - verus trying to lead them to the answer.
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Originally Posted by AdrianII
But what is the fundamental difference that causes Americans to bring a gun to a conflict where Canadians or Swiss don't? Can you tell me that?
You asked the question - but without the use of the word violence many missed what your question really was about. Why is there so much violence in the American Culture?
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
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Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia
And I won't hesitate to blow the head off of the theives. So we're at an equal standing. Freedom means more than any man's life.
Your freedom and property means nothing when the army secures an area. If your house is in the way it gets demolished. If you aim a weapon at soldiers you may get demolished. The US constitution may grant you rights, but precious few of them are considered in a war zone. If the army thinks armed civilians cause problems weapons get collected. Armed civilians shooting at troops get collected too, and they're not brave defenders of the Second Amendment. They're insurgents or even terrorists.
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
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Originally Posted by Don Corleone
Beyond that, the only thing we have left is cultural defintions... how do we see ourselves and what do we as a society value.
I know a lot of this has to do with the history of how your country came to be what it is. I studied this whole 2nd amendment issue a while back and I realised that Madison's amendment was really political and reflected the need of a militia culture for the young Republic to defend itself against foes external and internal. The Winchester is a symbol of that spirit. But the times they have a-changed, and sleeping with a locked and loaded .357 by my bedside would not be my idea of domestic bliss. Once again, that gun would be a symbol, not of freedom but of fear.
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
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Originally Posted by Redleg
However Kaiser your xenophoia for Mexicans is beginning to show through.
Canada has a few problems along their coastal cities last time I really check the news about their violence issues. Not near as bad as the United States - but the illegal immigrantion problem also effects them - but primarily with Asians.
I hate all illegals equally, Mexicans making up the majority of the illegal populance AFAIK.
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
Rubbish. When the army tries to take your weapons, when you have been charged with no crime, it is blatant abuse of power. That's the exact reason we have the 2nd amendment: to blow the heads off of soldiers who try to take our guns.
OH OH nevermind
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
Rubbish. When the army tries to take your weapons, when you have been charged with no crime, it is blatant abuse of power. That's the exact reason we have the 2nd amendment: to blow the heads off of soldiers who try to take our guns.
Erm...considering there HAS been people shooting at the rescuers themselves for no apparent reason, the army's reaction is most reasonable.
Oh yes, shoot them. Go ahead. Shoot those bloody grunts.
This may help, in a way, explains indirectly Adrian's legitimate question about American culture and its tendency to violence.
Or perhaps we could blame it on Hollywood and their glorification of guns? ~:handball:
Edit: Oh, I just forgot. The chief blame on gun culture belongs to Cowboy Bebop. It's just too good and has too large fanbase that its influence goes out of control. ~D
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianII
I know a lot of this has to do with the history of how your country came to be what it is. I studied this whole 2nd amendment issue a while back and I realised that Madison's amendment was really political and reflected the need of a militia culture for the young Republic to defend itself against foes external and internal. The Winchester is a symbol of that spirit. But the times they have a-changed, and sleeping with a locked and loaded .357 by my bedside would not be my idea of domestic bliss. Once again, that gun would be a symbol, not of freedom but of fear.
I'm not arguing. But with 3 home invasions in my neighborhood in a year, and the amount of time I spend travelling for work, don't you think it would be foolishly irresponsible for me to tell my wife "Don't worry baby. Lock the bedroom door and dial 911. They'll be here in less than 15 minutes"?
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
Rubbish. When the army tries to take your weapons, when you have been charged with no crime, it is blatant abuse of power. That's the exact reason we have the 2nd amendment: to blow the heads off of soldiers who try to take our guns.
Incorrect Gelatinous Cube when an area is declared a diaster area as New Orleans has been declared - and again read what the declaration states and the Lousiana Law states in that regrads.
Certain aspects of civil liberities are lost the minute that such a declaration is declared.
If you attempted to prevent the soldier from preforming his duties that were authorized by the civil authority based upon the declaration of emergancy - you would be in violation of the Constitution - not the soldier. That declaration entitles the authority to ask you to leave, if you refuse to leave that declaration entitles the government to force you to leave. Which is where New Orleans is now. When the government is going to force you to leave - its smart of them to also take your weapons before they attempt to force you to comply with the law that the civil authority has asked you once to comply with and now they have to force you.
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
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Erm...considering there HAS been people shooting at the rescuers themselves for no apparent reason, the army's reaction is most reasonable.
No, it is most unreasonable and stupid. It is punishing people who have not commited any crime, who are just sitting at home with guns for protection. It's like arguing that since some crooks use cars, all cars should be consficated.
Crazed Rabbit
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
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Originally Posted by Don Corleone
I'm not arguing. But with 3 home invasions in my neighborhood in a year, and the amount of time I spend travelling for work, don't you think it would be foolishly irresponsible for me to tell my wife "Don't worry baby. Lock the bedroom door and dial 911. They'll be here in less than 15 minutes"?
In Switzerland, they do respond within 15 minutes.
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Re: And So It Begins: the Begining of the End for the Second Amendment.
Cube is right. Do any of you want big brother coming taking your guns and property, I know I don't!
It seems like were becoming the UK (in some ways) :help:
No offence to the UK members but from what I read about your country it seems kind of like a police state :embarassed: with all the banned guns, registered knives, and security cameras. :dizzy2: