you as in me? or europa? and btw, it's not a definition. How can you claim to be something, that you cannot even define?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia
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you as in me? or europa? and btw, it's not a definition. How can you claim to be something, that you cannot even define?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia
I can Moralty-Concern with the distinction between good and evil or right and wrong; right or good conduct
Before this gets derailed im starting a new thread come all
all right, sorry if I hijacked the topic or anything, I just felt it was relevant.
Turks are not ethnically European. I never would like to. Everyone is happy with their genetic heritage. No problem or doubt about it my friend. :balloon2: I'm not a supporter of Turkey into EU stuff. So I'm not bothered how much European we are in any terms.Quote:
Germans are still ethnically european. Plus, you can make the same argument you did.
"Wasn't that some kind of war? I mean, we didn't just go murder the Russian and Polish jews, we were at war!"
"Wasn't that some kind of war? I mean, we didn't just go murder the Greek and Armenian Christians, we were at war!"
See a differance? Neither do I. Oh, and may I add that Germany now has one of the largest Jewish populations in Europe (I know, I can't figure it out either, esp. when Poland has like, the lowest.) I don't see too many Greeks in Turkey, do you?
So you get your point right next to mine. We agree on another point as well. War is war. I do not want to repeat the whole Armenian stuff again here. I had already debated it in my topic a couple of months ago. Their demolition (in smaller numbers than claimed, not the one as exagerrated) was an act of revenge in which even Kurdish commanders participated in.
Greeks are welcome. Greece is a whole broad country where Greeks can accept as a motherland. But Israel is still striving to solidize its place over that tiny bit of land. Comparind the lifestyle and the history of Greeks and Jews is like comparing the apple and pear. Merchantalistic Jews live everywhere, do their living wherever they earn money. That's their profession. But being a Greek has a more racial root as you know. And their lifestyle is definitely not the same as the Jewish. In fact Jews are the ones that have distinct characteristics compared to other societies whether racial or religious.
Greeks abandoned the Minor Asia long ago. The latest intensity of Greek population was in Izmir (Smyrna). After the Independence War, they are gone as well. It doesn't mean that there are hot Rumor Greek-originated girls around. They're everywhere here ~:cool:
Do you really think that Greeks get shot, mugged or something when they visit or decide to stay in Turkey ? Too many imagination covering your eyes like dried mud.
For the third time we agree, KoA.~;)Quote:
Under the same justifications that would allow Israel or Egypt into the European Union, or even the US, Canada, or Mexico. It's preposturous.
As I said, I have nothing against Turks, I like Turks. But they aren't European.
Good predicitons, EU would like to target these countries after they "digest" Turkey.
No, no. We are not European. And ever will it be. However EU union is not a European union literally. Look at how the world is polarizing once again. It's not about being European anymore, you shall see.
It was but to be disscused somewhere elseQuote:
Originally Posted by Sjakihata
Rejecting Turkey because they're not in Europe is ridiculous because "Europe" is an arbitrarily designated area on the Eurasian continent. Yes that's right, Europe and Asia are a single landmass. Turkey just happens to be mostly on the other side of a puddle called the Black Sea.
Like I said in the other thread, I'd tell Turkey to recognise Cyprus as a sovereign nation before they can join the EU.
I still stand by my previous point.
That part of Turkey west of the Bosphorus would appear to be in Eurupe. That part on the East would appear to be in Asia.
For the record again - I am not anti Turk. Far from it I respect Turkey and their attempts at a secular state in general.
I am anti EU though... and the Turkey/EU issue is doing nothing to change that
Well, I'm not going to argue with you, you seem to have *Semi*changed my mind, but I doubt the EU would ever want America in it, esp. since their leaders hate America with a passion. Esp. Chirac.~:cheers:Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine
I never even thought about this. But I'm curious why it is a question in the first place.
Azi
Should resolving the partition of Cyprus be a precondition for Turkeys admittance ?
USA has always its own leadership. That's what pushes USA further. USA needs rivals to be better. So, Chirac will feel comfortable until he retires..Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia
~:cheers:
Isn't this the same Country that Dâriûsh lived in?
He told me he watched some religious police beat up a guy or something...
*slinks away to find thread*
edit :
from:https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...t=54918&page=2Quote:
Originally Posted by Dâriûsh
No, not.. Dariush lives in an Islamic regime country, I think.
We don't have any religious policemen or any officer that has authority to judge or act throguh Islamic power. Turkey is a secular Islamic country.
I'm really surprised at that DA, don't get me wrong, my expression has nothing to do with you personally but that shows a tidbit of what we'll be dealing with in general during this "digestion".
I think that we westerners have a reasonable paranoia when it comes to the spread of Islamic influence. With the instability of the middle east and the violent extremism of some muslims groups, westerners are simply afraid.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine
This is reasonable. It is justified. Certainly most of us have the understanding that not all Muslims are anti-west. However, institutionalized hatred through madrasas and middle eastern government compensation to suicide/homicide bombers' families all instill a tendency to err on the side of caution when dealing with large populations of muslims.
Strike for the South, Kaiser of Arabia, if you have nothing else to do than some pointless europeans bashing, please refrain from posting..
Turkey is probably culturaly more similar to many EU countries than the US would ever been...Quote:
Well, I'm not going to argue with you, you seem to have *Semi*changed my mind, but I doubt the EU would ever want America in it, esp. since their leaders hate America with a passion. Esp. Chirac.
Agreed, I wonder how a country may join an international organisation while it doesn't recognise another member of this organisation.Quote:
Like I said in the other thread, I'd tell Turkey to recognise Cyprus as a sovereign nation before they can join the EU.
It is already so. This is going to be the main problem in the admittance process. In my opinion, if the solution is going to be something the Turks dont want(ie. recognizing government of Cyprus as the legal owner of the whole island), Turkey should not accept it before the moment of her getting a full membership.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
Georgia's not part of Europe, while Turkey is only partly in Europe. Turkey should be allowed to join.
Interesting to hear the comments about Cyprus and how Turkey is seen as the aggressor. Now I am old enough to remember watching the Turkish invasion of the northern end of the island of Cyprus on the telly. If I recall correctly it was in response to a coup staged by the Colonels in Athens. Cyprus has never been a part of Greece, it was included with the 'Big Idea' of a unified Greek culture that was abandoned long ago. Cyprus was/is, roughley speaking, 60% ethnic Greek and 40% ethnic Turk. Interesting then that the Turkish paratroopers stopped when the had secured 40% of the island(lets face it they could have taken the whole lot if they'd been so inclined)
http://www.regiments.org/wars/20thcent/55cyprus.htm
Now it seems to me that the Turkish government of the day acted with great restraint and propriety.
Hmmm...I wonder why they did that....Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine
Could you perhaps explain this statement? It perplexes me enormously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sjakihata
Interesting to hear the comments about Cyprus and how Turkey is seen as the aggressor.
They INVADED , they were condemned as the AGGRESSOR , they renewed the fighting during the supposed ceasefire , they unillaterally declared the independance of the North , no one recognised this turkish claim , so that is why they are seen as the aggressor .
On the mark as usual, Mouzafphaerre (you should break out of your self-imposed Backroom exile more often). This whole enlargement debate is not about who we were or who we are, but about who we want to be. I think the Turkish Prime Minister hit the right chord when he called on the EU not to remain a ' Christian Club'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouzafphaerre
I vote 'Yes, provided that...'
In order to become a full-fledged member Turkey will have to clean up its act by fighting corruption, subduing the military, ending prisoner abuse, etcetera - and the EU should end its obsession with geographical and religious 'borders' and find ways to help Turkey sustain its fast economic growth and political progress.
:bow:
'Yes'
There are things that need sorting out, many already mentioned here: the power of the military, corruption, Europeans coming to terms with Islam as something that can benefit as well as cause trouble, and the like. These are things that the EU can help with. Sure, Turkey needs to do things to be considered a full-fledged member of the EU, but the responsibility to adapt does not lay exclusively across the Bosphorus. Turkey has a lot to give to Europe, both culturally and economically, and the EU can help Turkey in similar ways.
As to whether Turkey can be considered should be let into the EU on a cultural-geographic basis, does this really matter? As Adrian stated so well it's not about what Europe is, but what it can become. Without change the EU merely becomes a fixed group, rather like an inbred family.
Yes, if only because of the fact that if not even that can be sorted out it doesn't bode well for future issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
That sounds like Iran a few years back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Divinus Arma