Re: Re : Riots in France?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meneldil
Now you have a point of view that I can't agree with: for you, the problem lies in the racism shown by the (white) frenchmen towards the arab community. For me, the racism lies in the problem caused by the arab community.
I think the influence of years of racist attitudes is important, and the fact that government officials now seem to echo those attitudes only compounds the situation. I do not understand why you call 90% of the sururban migrants savages when 85% of them have work and only a small group of youths, and youths only, are actually rioting and destroying the cars, schools and shops of other, older migrants. This is clearly a problem of the migrant community itself just as much as it is a problem of the entire French society.
As for solutions, I already gave you my best shot. I would suggest that you support positive movements and developments in those suburbs as much as you can. Education, womens rights, community-centred initiatives, 'close' policing instead of no policing at all. Oh, and don't fire tear gas into mosques, that isn't helpful at all. The BBC-site I linked to describes some of these initiatives. By all means, prevent the youth gangs and religious zealots from taking over community property, public space and social intercourse in those suburbs. That is the worst that can happen. People of good will should not be allowed to be intimidated by them (nor have their cars burned by them).
Re: Re : Riots in France?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianII
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As for solutions, I already gave you my best shot. I would suggest that you support positive movements and developments in those suburbs as much as you can. Education, womens rights, community-centred initiatives, 'close' policing instead of no policing at all.
Sounds like what we have been doing all the time. And it didn't work, maybe we should have tried that with the nazi's as well; I am sure that 6.000.000 jews would have survived if we had just given Hitler a little hug and a assesment course.
Re : Re: Re : Riots in France?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianII
As for solutions, I already gave you my best shot. I would suggest that you support positive movements and developments in those suburbs as much as you can. Education, womens rights, community-centred initiatives, 'close' policing instead of no policing at all. Oh, and don't fire tear gas into mosques, that isn't helpful at all. The BBC-site I linked to describes some of these initiatives. By all means, prevent the youth gangs and religious zealots from taking over community property, public space and social intercourse in those suburbs. That is the worst that can happen. People of good will should not be allowed to be intimidated by them (nor have their cars burned by them).
Agreed. I never said we shouldn't do that, and I never said the solution would be to shot at each single migrant who show up at our borders.
My main point is that the guys who are actually rioting (and there's not only young people FYI) can't be helped, and doesn't deserve to be. They are some fascist scums who don't care at all about the society and they'll likely think that way until their death. I really don't see how we could change their mind. They have been brainwashed by years of islamic or ethnocentrist propaganda, by crappy anti-whites/cops/france rap, and nothing could heal that.
Re: Re : Riots in France?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meneldil
And then ? What's next ? We wait for the next riot ? We just shut the **** up, say 'Okay, we're going to handle that quietly. That's not really serious anyway, they are just poor guys. It's not their fault afterall. The police shouldn't have visited this area' and sit doing nothing, which is usually what our political leaders would do ? I seriously don't like Sarkozy, and I'm not a fan of de Villepin, but call a scum a scum.
There were issues with the way France has dealt with immigrants and their descendants; if your government would at least recognise such failings it would be a step in the right direction. Moving in riot troops when things are calming down, even a little, is only going to make things flare up all the more next time. If all the government offers is threat of force or force itself absolutely nothing is achieved, only alienation.
Much as it would displease the French people what is needed is a concerted initiative to improve the standard of living for such people, particularly with regards to education. The problem was ignored for far too long, was allowed to grow, and is the responsibility of the French government; cracking down on those involved with violence is simply a continuation of such ignorance, and does absolutely nothing to solve the problem.
A policy of improving conditions does need to be combined with proper law enforcement, effectively tackling those spreading hatred and discord. Simply offering compromises doesn't help, but neither does the threat of violence alone; a combination of the two is most important, applied at points in society where either is necessary.