Greatest Boxer?
Jake LaMotta or Rocky Marciano.
Best one still fighting is def. Vlad. Klitschko.
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Greatest Boxer?
Jake LaMotta or Rocky Marciano.
Best one still fighting is def. Vlad. Klitschko.
His recordQuote:
Certainly the among the best ever in terms of ring skills and speed. Fantastic endurance, high tolerance for pain, and better hitting power than most gave him credit for.
3 of his 5 losses were in his last 4 fights when he was long past his prime. Up until then he was 55 and 2.Quote:
TOTAL FIGHTS: 61
WON : 56(91.8%)
LOST : 5( 8.2%)
KO'S : 37(60.7%)
You left out by far the greatest personality and self promoter in boxing history. The poems with the predictions before the fight were unreal. As was his delivery.
Quote:
Cassius Clay before his bout vs. Archie Moore (1962)
When you come to the fight
dont't block the halls
And don't block the door
For y'all may go home
After round four
I believe theseall came true.Quote:
Clay Prediction before first Liston bout
King Liston will stay
Until he meets Cassius Clay
Moore fell in four
Liston in eight
http://student.cs.ucc.ie/~ptd1/images/alilist3k.jpg
Quote:
Cassius Clay before the first Liston-bout).
Clay comes out to meet Liston
And Liston starts to retreat
If Liston goes back any further
He'll end up in a ringside seat.
Clay swings with a left,
Clay swings with a right,
Look at young Cassius
Carry the fight.
Liston keeps backing
But there's not enough room
It's a matter of time.
There, Clay lowers the boom.
Now Clay swings with a right,
What a beautiful swing,
And the punch raises the bear,
Clear out of the ring.
Liston is still rising
And the ref wears a frown,
For he can't start counting,
Till Sonny comes down.
Now Liston disappears from view.
The crowd is getting frantic,
But our radar stations have picked him up.
He's somewhere over the Atlantic.
Who would have thought
When they came to the fight
That they'd witness the launching
of a human satellite!
Yes, the crowd did not dream
When they laid down their money
That they would see
A total eclipse of the Sonny!
I am the greatest!
Hes opposed to war and killing not violence. Theres a huge difference. In fact I dont even no if thats why he objected.
Maybe he objected because he had listened to LBJs recorded conversations and realised that the whole war was based on Bull .~;) :hide:
Not only did most of the losses come late -- and way past his prime -- but in the other two: there were some who thought that Frazier did not win and Norton managed to break Ali's jaw in the first half of the fight, and Ali still went the distance~:eek: .
I always liked LaMotta, but his ring-skills make Marciano look like Ali. LaMotta didn't have the power of a Marciano, but managed to win because he just wouldn't stop no matter what you did to him (I think Stallone styled Balboa on this). LaMotta won because nobody could endure more pain than he did.
I always wonder what a Leonard v Robinson fight -- both in their prime -- would have been like. Pure artistry I'm guessin'. Of course, since I also like brawls, I'd like to see Foreman v. Marciano in their prime too (fight wouldn't go 5 rounds, but what a spectacle).
Ahh, casting aspersions with no basis in fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spino
I must be in the Backroom...
If Ali had fled to Canada to avoid the draft then I'd have to agree with the title of this thread, but I have some measure of respect for any man willing to serve time for his convictions (pun intended). Regardless of why he refused, he served time in jail and then endured a host of criticism for his decision. Right or wrong, America should be about freedom, even if only the freedom to choose jail time over military service.
Bush also honored Carol Burnett and Alan Greenspan, two other great Americans. Ali inspired more than a few inner city youth (code for black kids) to do more than drugs and father unwanted babies. I knew a couple of guys back then who felt like Ali gave them a little lift in their lives.
There are only a few worthless Americans; those who suck from the system without contributing, those who fail to learn the truth and beauty of what our system can and should be, and those who hate others simply because they disagree.
ichi:bow:
Ali took his lumps like a man. He gave up the best years of his carrer to sit in jail and unlike some men he stood up for what he belivied. If you ask me he is the epitome of a ture american
Yup he came from nothing and made himeself one of the most famous men in history. Not bad for a poor black kid from the south. The american dream come true.Quote:
If you ask me he is the epitome of a ture american
I think he would be a lot more vocal about the state of the world if he were in better health. His mind seems sharp but his damn body wont let him express himself, I have seen him joking and playing with kids but I think he gets too frustrated and embarrassed when dealing with most adults. Also his wife (very nice lady) and family are pretty protective of him, keeping him from doing a lot of things he would probably like to do.~:)
muhammad ali, my favorite boxer ever, i wonder if the FBI would have tackled an old man with parkinsens disease if he had struck bush.
My unnoticed topic's 2 cents about the incident itself..
Ali is paying off his love for boxing with Parkinson disease already. So I highly doubt that he lacked guts to go to Vietnam. (I heard that boxers who take repeated knocks to their heads have a higher probability to catch Parkinson)Quote:
Muhammad Ali, my man... Though he looks dead already, it's obvious that he did not.. I guess Bush will be sending special forces to break into Ali's house and look for nukes right after that..
Maybe, he just sat down and thought that :
" Okay, he's suffering Parkinson severely. But what's wrong with me ?... Ah yes ! I knew that cracker did more than taking my breath ! "
After all, Bush was being accused of his black discrimination with his previous government. And after the last election, he is just trying to be "pretty" (e.g. Condoleezza Rice).. Muhammad Ali being handed a heavy medal was another example of that.. That's all that I can see from overseas.. Bush is like a fool schoolboy pretending to be smart..
I just resemble the following boy to Bush :
<Pic Removed Due To Moderation Rules. Apologies>
This time he messed with the wrong guy, and he got his answer back in moments..
pic removed due to forum rules - Ser CleganeQuote:
I just resemble the following boy to Bush :
You really think he sees you that way?
That may be a grammatical mistake, wise man. Sorry.. Though you already know what I tried to mean..Quote:
I just resemble the following boy to Bush
P.S. He'd regret it if he did such.. Though I could not do it any better than what Muhammad Ali did.. ~D
https://img409.imageshack.us/img409/...bushoff9bl.jpg
BP is right. America did not declare war on Germany because of the slaughter of Jews and other minorities...Quote:
Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
Seriously.
The official reason was Pearl Harbor.
Sorry for OT.
I'm a strict constructionist in this case, hey. ~;)
And Ali is the man in the ring; besides, drafts were illegal until the time of Lincoln. And still, I would dodge the draft if it ever comes to me. Drafts, in a country that claims its main principle to be freedom, are contradictory as they come. No patriotic nonsense please: it is basically forcing people to fight a war for you. They send people off to die; don't try to act macho when you never have to face the real thing. (For those who did not fight; those who did, well, explain your point if you happen to agree with the draft) Bush, by the way, didn't face the real thing...but...hey, it's self-preservation of a boy with the silver spoon in his mouth. Even I can't blame him for that...until he started trying to score political points with his "service"...
Since Andrew Jackson, or even George Washington, as some might say, the American public proves its fallacy through its continuous fascination with war heroes--why don't honor some anti-war heroes already? ~;)
There we go again. We all know liberals are evil, foolish, dumb, tree-hugging, homosexual cowards. Anything new?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spino
And what if he is terrified? I'm not even sure what he actually felt. But if he really was terrified, what is wrong with being human?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spino
....
BTW, Panzer. Your post demonstrates your support for oppression. Did you ever read Leviathan?
Sure hes right but no one ever said that was the reason we declared war on Germany.Quote:
BP is right. America did not declare war on Germany because of the slaughter of Jews and other minorities...
Seriously.
The official reason was Pearl Harbor.
You did not, but Taffy and Redleg immediately responded to that statement by BP's with their own, I presume, accusations. ("You'd need to check your.." and "that's even funnier..")Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
Hence my argument that, literally, BP's statement is correct.
Germany declared war on America, not the other way around.
and to think I thought that the U.S. had war declared on THEM by Germany after Pearl Harbor.
Antiochus, quit being a presumptious jerk.
I am a history graduate, masters degree etc.
I was merely pointing out that NOBODY had suggested that the USA declared war on Germany because of the Jews etc. except for in BP's head.
No your the funny one. They were saying that no one claimed thats why we declared war on Germany or even mentioned it other than BP. Go check the posts prior to those your talking about.Quote:
You did not, but Taffy and Redleg immediately responded to that statement by BP's with their own, I presume, accusations. ("You'd need to check your.." and "that's even funnier..")
Nor was it Pearl Harbor. The reason was that Germany declared war first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
No kidding. But do you think they would have done so if Japan didnt attack us first? No Pearl Harbor no declaration of war from Germany. Also I was trying to be kind and all I was really agreeing to is that we did not declare war on Germany because of the Jews. In that I am correctQuote:
Nor was it Pearl harbor. The reason was that Germany declared war first.
A2, I think he's got the message now that 3 of us have pointed that out.
Undoubtedly not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
I've also wondered for a long time what would have happened if the Japanese attacked the SU along with Germany, would the 2 axis powers have crushed them? After that they'd have their hands free for Brittain and the US...
Ive brought this up in the monastary a few times. IMO they would have crushed Russia.Quote:
I've also wondered for a long time what would have happened if the Japanese attacked the SU along with Germany, would the 2 axis powers have crushed them? After that they'd have their hands free for Brittain and the US...
Interesting point:
FDR was, in effect, already engaged in a naval war against Germany in the North Atlantic for at least 5 months prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor.
However, nothing in the Rome-Berlin-Tokyo "Axis" alliance required the other countries to aid in one of their defensive alliance partner's attacks on another power. Italy, for example remained neutral in WWII until they saw the chance to cheap France after Dunkirk. Germany need not have declared war, and FDR would not have had the leverage to go after Germany as well as Japan without such a declaration. FDR was more than happy to accomodate them -- and honor the Germany first policy agreed upon with Winnie -- the moment Germany's declaration allowed him to do so.
Just where would that have left things....hmmmm. Gingrich/Forstchen provide one possible scenario in 1945.
I personally have nothing against Ali, but it does kind of Amaze me that same people who will bash Bush's record and say that he did nothing in the military or anything else, will say Ali absence the Military is fine. Bush in the Miltary but not being sent over seas ( like many other service men stationed in the US at time of war.) but he is a spoiled white boy. Ali Dodges the Draft and can get away with it, infact ever draft dodger is fine, but Bush was'nt staioned abroad, though he served and he is a coward. A little bit of double standards don't you think.
There has never been a coward that flew an F-102. Also Ali nor Bush ever dodged the draft.Quote:
but Bush was'nt staioned abroad, though he served and he is a coward. A little bit of double standards don't you think.
FASCIST!!!
~D
only joking
edit: in response to AS rather than Gawain.
Maybe I stated that wrong Some People here have claimed that Bush was a coward but I was not saying Bush was a coward, I hope thats not what you thought I said and I definitely did not say Bush Doged the Draft. What I am saying is people here claim that when others, who broke the law and did not to go to Nam it was ok, but you can attack Bush even if he did his job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny