Actually its just as likely the Muslim Palastinians, and the Christians (There are a fair few) are Isaelites. After all, the Jews were expelled in the 60s AD, then fifty years later a lot of them had moved back in.
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Actually its just as likely the Muslim Palastinians, and the Christians (There are a fair few) are Isaelites. After all, the Jews were expelled in the 60s AD, then fifty years later a lot of them had moved back in.
“Would you first show me this statement in the Quran”.
Will this do?
“... The first and foremost of such conclusions is surely the one on the incompatibility of Islam and non-Islamic systems. ….They are just the practical conclusions taken from the Islamic recognition of Christians and Jews which come right from the Qu'ran (Qu'ran, 29/45, 2/136, 5/47-49)” Alija Izetbegovic, The Islamic Declaration,
Not good for atheists and other religions, is it? And the status of the 2 others is to be subordinate to Islam...
All religions state that they are the best.
Most state somewhere that unbeleivers should be converted or killed.
Like an organism, the strongest ones survive, the weak ones die. To say that you're not the best will mean those that state that they are will end up winning.
~:smoking:
Which sadly, does not exist. However, the original statement was made by you to the tune of: "All muslims beleive the have an inalienable right to be ruled by a muslim." I simply was moved to dispel such a inaccurate generalization.Quote:
Originally Posted by lars573
You can get translations off the internet. So please do show me the Quranic injunction to support your claim of: "It's in the Qur'an that Muslims have the right to be ruled by fellow Muslims."Quote:
Originally Posted by lars573
Which was my point exactly in citing the contrast between the scripture and the followers of both Judaism and Islam. The reason I made this point was to dispel your initial generalization of: "All muslims beleive the have an inalienable right to be ruled by a muslim." which you went on to support with the statement that: "It's in the Qur'an that Muslims have the right to be ruled by fellow Muslims."Quote:
Originally Posted by lars573
I hold this viewpoint as seen in my earlier statement in this thread: "As long as Israel has their military stranglehold on the land, than the land is theirs."Quote:
Originally Posted by lars573
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by lars573
Perhaps...Quote:
Originally Posted by lars573
No, this is not a substitute for an actual Quranic translation stating that "Muslims have the right to be ruled by fellow Muslims."Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
Besides, I am well aware that an Islamic Government System is in conflict with other government systems.
As for other religions, do recall that Zoroastrians, Hindus, and Buddhists among others were given the same second class citizenship in a medieval Islamic State as Jews and Christians.
Of course other religions were subordinate to Islam in a Islamic State, just as all religions are subordinate to the secular law of a secular state...
I think Israel should stop the charade and kick hamas's bum out of Jewish Land. The UN partion plan kinda gives too much land to a few displaced Arabs. No offense, but there's only sixteen other Arab nations that boarder Israel where they could run off to.
Typical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia
Under the intense pressure of the US and the whole world?Quote:
Well, Israel has defended itself from massed attack by its neighbours before. And the muslim world does not speak with one voice on the matter - both Egypt and Jordan have recognised Israel's right to exist. Turkey and Indonesia too, IIRC.
But those all are minorities, and guests in your own countries.Quote:
There are plenty of Israeli arabs who are muslim and quite happy to be citizens of that country. European muslims appear to be quite happy to be ruled by non-muslim governments. So I don't see your argument.
They can win militarily, just get US to annouce that it has got nothing to do with Israel.Quote:
No, you're wrong. The Palestinian people should not resort to extreme measures - they are heavily outgunned, and can never win militarily. You need to get over it, and protest non-violently. Extreme solutions just cause more deaths.
No I'm not, a disgraceful experience, when the Egyptian army made fatal mistakes losing the war..Quote:
Are you forgetting the 7 day war? Israel did defeat most of the Arab countries.
What is that? I didn't care to read what it says, but at all costs, I can get you Omar's Treaty when he 'freed' Palestine from the Romans (Knowing that most Egyptian were considered slaves), and that will show you the justice of Islam.Quote:
“... The first and foremost of such conclusions is surely the one on the incompatibility of Islam and non-Islamic systems. ….They are just the practical conclusions taken from the Islamic recognition of Christians and Jews which come right from the Qu'ran (Qu'ran, 29/45, 2/136, 5/47-49)” Alija Izetbegovic, The Islamic Declaration,
48? You must be kidding! You know people were force immigrated even a long while after that. (Till our on-going days)Quote:
Or his home could be where his Grand-parents were forced to flee from in 1948. Something like 4 million Arab Palestinians fled to Gaza and the west bank when the Arab nations attacked Israel during it's independance war.
So as long as US is in Iraq, Iraq is theirs.. And I thought US was their to free them..Quote:
I hold this viewpoint as seen in my earlier statement in this thread: "As long as Israel has their military stranglehold on the land, than the land is theirs."
Well done Capo .
I think Israel should stop the charade and kick hamas's bum out of Jewish Land.
They are not on Israeli land .
The UN partion plan kinda gives too much land to a few displaced Arabs.
The UN partition plan disproportionately gave more land to the minority , the minority being the future Israelis .
No offense, but there's only sixteen other Arab nations that boarder Israel where they could run off to.
Wow Israel has really grown hasn't it .:laugh4: How nations border Israel Capo ?:book:
x-dANGEr - Israel can militarily defeat even a united Palestinian front right now if such a conflict happened without help from anyone.
Militarily, Palestine needs help here, not Israel. And you've got your history wrong if you think the Western world supported Israel in the beginning. The Jordanian Legion was trained and led by British officers in 1948 when everything went to hell. Israel had a terrible time finding weapons and supplies as few if any nations were willing to support it. I don't think the US as a nation supported Israel until after they had won.
The Jordanian Legion was trained and led by British officers in 1948 when everything went to hell.
Jordan and the Legion had reached an agreement with the emerging State of Israel before the conflict . The Hashemite rulers were out after their own interests , and they still do not have the land that the allies "promised" them .
Man, am more than sure that the UK had admitted giving Nuclear heads to Israel at that time, and you still say it had no support.. What about Balfour's Promise? Where did Israel get the planes that crashed the Egyptians' while they were on the ground? Or the ammo to make those planes crush Egyptian tanks that were unfortunately without air cover?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good
Woah there dANGEr , slow down .
That last post cobbles together loads of unrelated incidents over a wide time span .
Would you like to try again with each in the correct time frame ?
Sorry but the UK did not have nuclear arms until 1952.Quote:
Originally Posted by x-dANGEr
anyone see this?
http://www.israelnewsagency.com/hama...l48770611.html
what do you think?
Why?
The first casualty of war is Truth.
It is eminently possible that an arms dump blew up. It's also possible that Israel shelled the area after they saw that rockets were actively bieng launched.
I honestly doubt that evidence that can not be refuted as suspect or tainted can ever be provided on these incidents, barring the charred remains of the dead.
~:smoking:
And who said it gave them before that?Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneApache
Am talking about 67 everyone.
@Tribesman: Unrelated incidents? I'm talking about Israel 'proving itself militarily'.
what do you think?
Why?
Well , a one man blog by someone who proudly calls himself a dedicated zionist .
What can you say about accuracy and perspective ?
I do like his views that anyone shot in the back must have been killed by Paestinians , because an Israeli would never shoot someone in the back:dizzy2:
Israel defeated the Arabs through superior strategy, organisation and battlefield tactics.
At the time of the Six Day War the Muslim countries (the aggressors who blockaded Israel and moved their forces to her borders in preparation for an assault) had superior equipment to the Israelis, supplied by the Soviet Union. Although the Israeli air force was ok, her land forces relied mainly on WWII cast-offs such as the Sherman tanks that she ingeniously adapted for desert warfare.
I saw an interview where an Egyptian officer of the period said that the Arab armies were parade-ground armies, useful only for over-aweing their own peoples for their tin-pot dictators. The Israeli army was, and is, a real army.
Yeah, the airforce was American planes. Without it Israel would have been overrun.
~:smoking:
Good summarization RP, also the better educated the populace the better the armed forces that draws from them.
Now come on - its really easy to find what aircraft the Israeli Airforce has had in its inventory.Quote:
Originally Posted by rory_20_uk
Its a combination of multiple aircraft depending on what specific time frame one is wanting to discuss.
http://home.sprynet.com/~anneled/IAFinventory.html
The United States did not supply that many planes to Israel until after the 1967 war.
Some favourites of mine from that site.
MiG-15 Fagot
1 31-Oct-56 Captured in Sinai
MiG-23 Flogger
1 11-Oct-89 MLD Defected from Syria
A bit of gay bdsm just to frighten the natives...:laugh4:
Dornier 27Q
Dornier 28B-1
Looks like they forgave the Germans then...:sweatdrop:
Surely I don't know which kind belonged to which country. So, can someone explain to me 'Made in ....' were the planes or the air force that Israel had in 67, please.
Taffy ,, further to your blog post . The IDF is still unable to account for one of the six shells fired at the beach , the closest one that they have accounted for exploded 200 meters away from the picnic .
I thought this post was too 'downgraded' that I didn't need to reply to.. But well umm.. I have a few moments to spare.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy_is_a_Taff
Needless to say, this post is simply like saying over the internet to a 5 years old kid setting in the UK, London, in his little home near his father: "Hey you, you killed my neighbor!!", while I'm setting right here 80 KMs away of the 'scenes'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by x-dANGEr
There is no need for me to do the research for you. Simply google search the type of aircraft and that will provide you with what you need.
“the airforce was American planes”. Nope, French during the 6 days war. Mirage, Ouagans (maker: Dassault), Vautours etc…
“WWII cast-offs such as the Sherman tanks” and new AMX 13.
fair enough, it's not like it's my blog or that I agree with it or anything. Leave a comment for the guy, I was just entertained to see somebody take a very different stand on the topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribesman
Yes, the French planes were good, but matched in quality by the Arab air forces which were superior in numbers. The Israelis had very few AMX's as far as I know and they were outnumbered, outgunned, and outperformed by their Soviet opposition in the Arab ranks. The back-bone of the Israeli forces were 'last generation' WWII.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenus
The Arab problem is that they have never admitted this defeat by a superior military. Therefore, they always underestimate their enemy, and you cannot afford this kind of arrogance in war. This topic came up just recently at an informal discussion at the university here when talking to an intelligent and sophisticated Yemeni arabic lecturer. He surprised me by repeating the mantra that the US/West won the Six Day War for the Israelis and it had nothing to do with any merit on their part. Such ignorance from one otherwise so well informed. The Arabs should study the Israelis intensely if they wish to learn how to win wars as they would be learning from the best, from people who don't need the latest US gadgets, but who can make do with ingenuity, intelligence, preparation, and organisation. Learn from your enemies, don't despise them.
And they didn't have neat gadgets in 1948 - they won (or defended) their independence from the Arab nations pretty much unaided and severely outgunned, from my understanding. That's the most telling thing, I think.
In 48, their were no Arabs to defend against for Israel. Though, in 67, arrogance was their sadly, and yes, it lose the war. Wherever those planes came from, am sure are either from Europe or the US, so by any cost, they 'were' supported by them, and those nations did win them the war after all.