khelvan, I was expecting your answer.
Allow me to multi - quote your answer:
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- Certain EB team members state that your mod is not as effective as the fans seem to think it is, based on their testing.
I doubt that testing, it is unquestionably better to yours which is 2 patches behind. So the perception is 2 generations behind.
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- You react to at least one of their words being overly critical or overly insulting, I'm not sure which.
I have quoted some in this thread and to a previous post. Especially the ironic of Shigawire claiming indirectly that my modifications are mostly a placebo effect..sorry Shigawire but you cannot convince me that you did not intent to target me when saying...all these AI-mods...I come here and speak directly to you all and you still cannot understand to who I am speaking.
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- You come here and do nothing but claim that EB is mediocre, EB should have done certain things but did not, EB should have completed things and did not, compared to your own time frames.
I admit I was using words of pain but I did not start this...maybe my mistake is I continue it.
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- You state we cannot take criticism.
That is a fact. After one sees for a while your forum especially in TWcenter, 50 % of posts are ...cheers, yay,OMG,how happy I am etc. ...and you reply to these with more intensity than those who criticise you and should listen.
When I first received the first cheering OMG posts in my forum I asked politely not to post like this and preferably I demanded people to come and give me advises and mis-happens...this helped me enormously to quickly find errors and evolute.
Look at this for example:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...t=65175&page=2
Everybody is cheering for you and then comes a fellow named K_raso who thoroughly criticizes your preview..in minutes you eat him alive.
And I did not search much ...random finding....full of these fan of EB treatments. I never treat DarthMod fans like this. Who cares anyway...
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I see this as the height of hypocrisy. Basically, team members criticized your mod, and you couldn't take it, the very thing you accuse us of doing as a team.
Maybe that is true but I do not like the way of their criticism as you dont like mine that came afterwards. I from my side admit that I could have expressed myself in a more gentle way but due to my mood of nowadays and the words I heard for me I overreacted. Still I believe everything I have said. The polite way to say "mediocre" is as you say "is not as effective as the fans seem to think it is" ...still indifferent to me if you know how to read and understand temper behind words. Hypocricy is to try to show a different attitude than this you feel...I am direct. Always.
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- First, try creating a total conversion. Or, at least, try playing ours. The reason you are able to so quickly adjust your mod and release new verisons is because the work that goes into it is at least one factorial less complex than any total conversion, which includes work on all the areas which you cover plus many, many more. You lack the perspective necessary to crticize our work or our timeframes. You haven't even played the mod, much less be able to understand how to make it. So your "criticism" here is nothing more than an attempt to insult our mod and mod team based on wild speculation and ignorance. I don't mean that in an offensive way, I just mean that you should learn about the things you are speaking of before using them as a means to insult people.
Allow me to tell you that when I speak about things I am always certain of them through experience. That of course is not preventing me to make mistakes since this experience may be probabilistically false. Despite that allow me again to tell you that I have played your mod in its past form...not a lot changed from your current...cannot remember the decimal numbers of the beta version bcs I erased it from my disk. Secondly allow me to term my mod as a total conversion too because the 1.7 GB of files there are not only formations and stats. Which of course you should have unterstood easily if you have played my mod . So the accusation is reversed. EB is a total conversion too but with as you say more modified parameters.
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- Please take your own advice. Don't come here upset and raving mad because some members of this mod team don't see your work as being as effective as non-modders who haven't played with the code do. As modders we evaluate and test and are able to understand the difference between perception and reality. Because some modders come to the conclusion that your mod is much less effective (notice no one ever called your mod worthless) based on tests than fans' perception does not mean anyone is purposely trying to insult or undermine your mod. As the saying goes, people in glass houses should not throw stones.
No. I will post whenever I feel my name is mentioned without me participating or getting informed of the situation. And allow me to regard a mass fan perception more valid than some mini-modders. If you mean that my modding effort is a glass house then I respond that it is far more solid than you may know. Finished, verified, used in almost all mods, widely tested and you cannot do anything about it than throw stones to it.
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Now, we have had an internal discussion about the way people present their opinions about other mods or modders' work. I personally find some of the comments that some of our members have made recently, and not necessarily in this thread or about your mod, as disgusting. Our team members have to realize they represent us in what they say and do. I am trying to help them to learn this. However, what they have said which I term "disgusting" in the past pales in comparison to what you say above. I really can't comment more on that or I too will be drawn into throwing insults around.
I am very glad about these words because you agree to at least some of my assertments but you avoid to admit you (some EB members) have done this also specifically to me, therefore afraid to take a direct position on the matter.
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- Try not to speak about what you don't understand. I realize this is similar to my first point, but it bears repeating. You don't understand why there were delays, you have no idea of the scope of our project and the problems we have faced, and you really have no idea of the makeup of our team and who is actually capable of solving the problems we've run into. You're making judgements based on no information, and a list of past contributors to the mod. You're also making wild assumptions about the business world, when as a businessperson I have to question how you could draw this sort of false conclusion. Finally, you generalize about all EB team members when you have dealt with one or two.
Allow me to make my assumptions then...maybe I do not understand but I have an opinion based on simple facts. Some things are simplier and get more complicated when excuses are generated. You know the backstage facts yourself and good for you. About my bussiness theory...I do not have to be a marketing guru to insist that continuous failing to meet the deadlines means extra cost, less income, dissapointment of the customers etc.
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You also manage to insult not only the entire EB team, but also the entire EB fan base. In order to avoid this you really should stick to what you know, which is formations and stats. If you don't want an explanation as to what our problems were and delays were, and why we had to do what we did to overcome them, you shouldn't post such blatantly wrong assumptions about them.
That is a mistake of mine but I have said in my first posts that I do not mean to harm all the EB team of which I do not know the median stance against or in favour of me. As for the EB fan base I am certain that I indeliberately managed to make a lot quite unhappy but also I am sure that some like to listen to hard truth. I play ball in away stadium, in your forum, your fans, already being called an idiot from a young boy eager to learn new words etc. ..no matter I know that in the end I will lose because I am in hostile territory as it seems which is sad. It is sad because in the interactive non-real sub-space of TW modding I have offered a lot to be treated like this.
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I am personally happy that your mod has been so successful, and doubly happy that you have made tutorials that assist others in their efforts. Our own stats and formation work will no doubt benefit from this. I have tried your mod and I do see an improvement. I don't see it as effective as the fans do, but please understand that this is not meant as an insult. There is only so much anyone can do to affect the AI; RTW doesn't give us the tools to edit the battlefield or campaign AI, so we have to attack it in indirect ways.
I believe in open source modding and it is good to hear that you acknowledge it. I also sense you have played a much more older version of DarthMod than my latest to say that and also above that it is not a total conversion. Maybe there are disturbances in the force who knows...
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This does not mean I am trying to undermine you. We constantly get questions about why we don't use your formations. The truthful answer, without malice, is that we see some benefit to some of the things you have done but cannot accept it carte blanche because 1) our testing shows that the perception of benefit is greater than the actual benefit and 2) our own stats, formations, and battlefield behavior is wildly different from yours.
Also I re-state that the whole issue for me is not that you do not use my formations but the way you have undermined it in the past (some EB members).
I know you cannot implement because you are in patch 1.2 and the techniques I use are valid from 1.3 patch and above or else there is a CTD.
Also technically I know that formations by their own cannot change too much the AI unless other files are balanced which I mention in my last tutorial. This is why I wrote it, I like to transfer my knowledge good or bad, large or small, to those who want to fix their own formations without experimenting from the beginning. If I wanted to gain singularity I would have kept all these things secret only to be compiled by more experienced modders.
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I would like to assume that your accusations of EB being mediocre and so on and so forth are simply borne out of ignorance and not malice. That is, I would like to think it is due to a lack of understanding of what we do (since you haven't created a total conversion and you haven't actually played our mod) than it is out of a desire simply to be insulting. To that end I would like to offer you the opportunity to learn the basics of trait work, scripting, complex building systems and intricate recruitment systems; essentially all the things that your mod is not focused on, so that in the future perhaps you have a better understanding of who we are and what we do, and why there are delays. I am happy to assist with this, and if I can't answer some of your questions or teach you what you need to know I will find others who can. In this way I am sure you will learn that what you say above is quite simply wrong, and perhaps you will be able to improve your own mod through these discussions.
No, not ignorance. A personal opinion expressed directly and sincerely with admit ably not the best manner as an answer to the pro-longed and inexcusable undermining of my AI modding by some EB members. I would have kept it for myself but since some members do like to express their opinions openly and indirectly, I do it also publicily and ...directly.
This is a personal opinion of course. I do have a feeling that all the mods who focus more to the graphics, documentation and strict overall appearance of a game than the spirit of the gameplay are a bad influence to the general game industry since they think that gamers are really demanding that kind of things and continue to produce empty games full of eye pleasing things than mind stimulation.
I prefer to play with an old chess set than a fancy backgammon.
Still there are games in the industry that prove gameplay does sell (Football manager, pro-evolution soccer etc.) and hope the new M2TW game will supplement the fantastic graphic package with a decent gameplay.
Of course I do not mean that your mod does not have the potential to be the best out there. It has it. You just have to focus on battle gameplay too.
Or else name it a turn based RTW modification like Europa Universallis (an excellent game with certain identity) and leave battles out. Most of your named complex scripting procedures affect the campaign map and not the strength of the RTW-engine which are field battles. You try to perfect secondary goals.
Allow me also to know more things than formations and stats but only to specialize in the last two. So the assistance you offer could be granted if it was meant than used for irony.
Thank you for baring me up to now....I will leave this forum now and maybe soon all the forums since I will possibly retire for good. Maybe other games will attract me more to mod. Possibly I will produce smthg in M2TW very very late. So the possibility to do this writting for advertisement is eradicated ...as indirectly stated above (By Teleclos).
